LasVegasTL

Found this article about warming up your car during the winter. Very interesting facts that I found very helpful.

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/auto...car-in-winter/

Rapture

I mostly did it because I always believed oil pressure was high on a cold engine. I guess not, then?

tmnhs81

I wait until the air pump on mine shuts off and then row through all the gears before I start moving. Its just for peace of mind....

Hapa DC5

Only idle when I'm not in covered parking and have to let the defroster do its job so I can see before I start moving. Other then that I just start it and go.

achenator

My truck I usually just get in and go. GT-R I let warm up at least a 2 full minutes. I want to make sure that $$$$ transmission gets fluid fully pumping through it b4 I move the car.

speedemon90

I remember we had a thread about this that had everyone debating over this topic and the same thing was established. But never read an article on it.

I do it when its cold to get the heater going, so when I sit in the car the heater is starting to blow out warm air, or I'm defrosting my windows.

Now here's a question:

What if you go somewhere and you have a choice of idling your car for say 3-5 minutes or turning your car off. Which is better. Sure idling waste gas, but frequently turning your car off and on also ruins your stater motor. So which is better? According to the article you should turn your car off, but I dont know if I agree with that.

what are your thoughts?

OperationDarkie

iTrader: (1)

I only let mine idle enough so the tranny is warmed up enough and the pedal isn't sloppy bout 30secs to 1 min.

but that's only if its like 15 degrees or lower.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Old habits do die hard.

The Owner's Manual states, "No more than 60 seconds needed to warm up."

PortlandRL

My Santa Fe idles very high when starting cold (2,000 to 2,200 rpm) and I'll usually wait until it drops below 2K before shifting into reverse. As the cars in our family are garaged, there is no reason to worry about defrosting.

LasVegasTL

My car is also in a garage and I will usually just get in the car and drive. The coldest I've seen it here in the morning is in the low 40's anyway. Plus I have to drive a few minutes at 15mph to observe the speed limit in my development.

Crazy Bimmer

I idle till the RPMs drop a little then i go. Drive under 2700rpm till the oil temp is up.

All fluids tend to warm up faster this way instead of idling.

Aman

2. Ten seconds is all you need.

Methinks this is highly exaggerated. I think in reality it's something like 30 seconds to a minute, at which point you've used more gas than you would've turning the car off and then starting it again. Ten seconds is a really short amount of time.

Same thing with number 3. I'm no engine guru, but I doubt idling wears the car out any more than actually driving it. I remember hearing that the only real downside to idling your car for too long, aside from fuel consumption, is that your catalytic converter doesn't work as it should as well. I think it was Costco or someone who said that you can tell this by looking at the car's exhaust tip, and if it's covered in soot or not.

IMO pretty much all the facts except for 1, 6, and 7 are exaggerated, and make idling/warming up your car more dramatic than it really is.

FWIW, my Accord doesn't like moving if it hasn't warmed up for at least 45 seconds. Cold idle is 1500 rpm, and you get the feeling that it's constantly trying to get up to that idle speed. Engine feels like it's under load when in gear/stopped, and when you let go of the brake in gear, it automatically goes up to 1500 rpm. It's so bad, the AT will sometimes even shift into 2nd, no throttle needed.

My

CL6

Almost all of the links in that article cite some environmental fund. Last I checked, Granola Crunchy & Driver wasn't an authority on cars.

Car & Driver says:

Proper Warm-Up
Yes, we know, plenty of people claim that letting the engine warm up any longer than it takes for the oil-pressure gauge to register is wasting gas. But a fully warmed engine is a more efficient engine. Besides, taking off in a car that hasn’t warmed properly, hasn’t had the windows cleared of ice or snow, and is still freezing cold inside is dangerous at worst, no fun at best. You think Al Gore hops into his Toyota Prius without warming it up?

http://www.caranddriver.com/features..._guide-feature

LuvMyTSX

I usually let mine warm up for a minute or two, not usually more than that. Especially since the RDX has a turbo - I don't live far from the highway and I don't want to punch it too hard before it has a chance to warm up.

black label

I thought this was one of the arguments against "long idle warm ups". You are warming the engine (inefficiently) but doing nothing to warm up the transmission fluids or lubricated joints/bearings. I was told that you are more likely to wear your transmission and drive line by thinking the "car" was warmed up but it was really just the engine and cabin.

The only idle warm up I do is during snow or ice removal and that's just to get the defrosters working. I just shift at about 2900 RPM until the temp gauge starts to register. The goal is to warm all moving parts up under a light load.

silver3.5

turn engine off if idle more than 10 seconds? that means, in stop and go traffic, i'll be starting my car at least 100 times in an hour! no thanks....starting your car does more damage than letting it idle. and drive off after 10 seconds? in -20 degree weather? i don't think so! this article is too bias towards anti-pollution

Legend2TL

Unless the windows are fogged over, there's no reason to warm up your engine at idle but there's something else. Take it easy on the throttle until the engine warms up completely, once the engine is warmed up then you an use more aggressive acceleration. I start and drive my TL within a few seconds but am really easy on the acceleration until it's warmed up.

Legend2TL

Cold start does engine wear, warm start engine wear is almost negligible from what I've read. If the engine was warm and oil was flowing there's plenty of oil film on the bearings. Cold motor, that's different.

SouthernBoy

There is a pretty good gauge you can use for this. When you start your engine, it will run up to around 1500 RPM and then start to fall back to its normal idle speed. When it gets to around 800-1000 RPM, you should be fine to put it in gear and get going. At first, drive carefully and not fast, with light throttle.... say, through your neighborhood until you reach a main road. By that time you should be fine.

Extended idling when an engine is first started promotes condensation in the cylinders, the oil pan, and the exhaust. You're going to get some of this anyway, but getting moving like I said above minimizes this and starts burning ir off and drying it up sooner. Short trips with engine on for short periods of time then turned off will shorten the life of your exhaust system significantly.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Same here. The RPMs typically drop into normal range after 15-20 seconds. After that I'm off and just keep the RPMs low till warm...

4cruizn

I let the car warm up for up to a minute before I take off every morning, and I park in a garage in warm Arizona. In cooler climates, I'll let it run for longer. And I definitely don't turn off the car when I'm sitting longer than 10 seconds. That's ridiculous.
Start-up is the hardest thing you can do to your car. I disagree with the article here. And I must not be doing anything too hard on my motor to have to have gotten this level of longevity out of it.

Totally.

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

SouthernBoy, couple of questions for you.

north east (as you know) is pretty cold right this time of year. i recently moved, and now my work is about 3-5 mins from my house.

i usually start my car, have a smoke (outside of the car), then hop in and keep the rpms relatively low all the way to work. keep in mind, my work is only a few mins away from my house...so i know nothing is fully warmed up in my car by the time i arrive at work.

should i be worried my xlr8 exhaust will flake out prematurely?

should i take the scenic route and hop on the highway for a few minutes each morning, instead of taking the 5 min route?

Aman

It's not even about engine wear, which I'm sure you're correct about. But what about the amount of fuel it takes to start an engine. Not only is this article biased, but it's misinformed.

My 4cyl Accord takes a heck of a long time to lower its idle speed from 1500 rpm. As in 2+ minutes in 20 degree weather. I know the majority of board members have V6 engines and they're probably different, but I don't think engine speed is a good measuring stick.

TheMirror

3. Idling hurts the car

"According to the Hinkle Charitable Foundation's Anti-Idling Primer, idling forces an engine "to operate in a very inefficient and gasoline-rich mode that, over time, can degrade the engine's performance and reduce mileage."

The Campaign for an Idle-Free New York City points out that idling causes carbon residues to build up inside the engine, which reduces its efficiency."

OK, maybe in an engine built before 1960 or if you idle your car for 2000 hours non-stop. Otherwise,

StreetKA

iTrader: (8)

whats that ?

black label

Warms up and circulates the fluids for you in cold climates. My Mom had one when she lived in Montana, if you didn't have one you may not be able to start your car between December and March.

Legend2TL

For starting a warm engine, the amount of fuel to start the engine is also negligible. I do agree the 10 second rule is perhaps too short. Definitely 30 seconds for a warm engine, although in traffic I agree it makes almost no sense to shut down a engine in traffic.

One definitely do not do is start your cold engine and let it run for less than a minute. The amount of extra fuel that gets deposited on the plugs takes time to properly burn off. Sometimes I do mistakenly do it when I move the cars out of the garage to wash them then my wife yells at me because her Pilot is hard to start the next time.

black label

That's not what they are advocating. If you read the article they keep mentioning "idling at the curb". I didn't see anytwhere in the article where theyt said to shut down at a traffic light or when in bumper to bumper traffic.

StreetKA

iTrader: (8)

i would be interested in somekinda heater like to mount it in my CL because it really gets freezing in a winter and my seat heaters aren't working anyone can recommend something that will work on my car ?

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

can you answer me this? how is your tranny and the tranny fluid getting warmed up if you aren't moving?

^^^this>*

once i start the engine, i am usually off within 15-30 secs at most unless im waiting for the defroster... it doesn't make sense to sit there and warm up the engine but your tranny has been sitting there cold... if the car is not warmed up yet, try to stay light on the accelerator and let the car coast if possible... at least when you are moving, you can get things warmed up uniformly and faster...

SouthernBoy

Well first off, you're not in the northeast if you live in Baltimore. (had to clear that one up).

Having a smoke while your engine is running after a cold start up is not the best thing to do. I imagine smoking a cigarette probably takes 3 to 5 minutes. You'd do better in doing your "should i" route or maybe another scenic route. If you're just running the J-pipe, that thing will heat up really fast. The part of the exhaust you want to worry about is down stream of the main cat... as in the resonator and more importantly, the mufflers. These components tend to be the last ones to heat up so condensation in them is going to take a little bit to dry out.

SouthernBoy

My post was solely intended for 3G TL owners. If your engine's start up RPM's take a few minutes to come down, then obviously your situation differs.

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

alright well i've got the v3 jpipe (rids of 3rd cat), and xlr8 exhaust, no resonators only mufflers.

...so basically what i'm trying to avoid is any wear/tear on my exhaust components. i feel like if i just do the short 3-5 min drive, nothing will be warmed up whatsoever towards the back end of the system. you know what i mean?

i guess i should lengthen my commute some, so that everything gets up to operating temps. i know these short stop n go trips are not the most ideal thing...

Aman

IMO you'll be spending more money than you'll save by extending your commute just to warm the car up.

Legend2TL

I understood that, I was just adding in the traffic aspect in general.

Back in the 80's and early 90's, VW added a pretty cool feature on some of their Euro cars. A switch on one of the stalks would shut down the engine if the vehicle was not moving and the brake pressed and clutch pushed in all the way. As soon as the brake was released, the engine would automatically restart. This was to save fuel in stop and go traffic. Don't remember much about it but it was never offered in the states for legal reasons. It improved city fuel mileage.

05TLdcc

They still have that today with some diesel engines. but it still seems inefficient to me, since turning the car on increases wear, fuel consumption, etc.

black label

This is one I have noticed many times while doing snow removal. We have to fire up, clean off and move every car when we get a good snow storm. For the most part the cars are left idling while this happens. The TSX's sould like they are gargling after about 30 minutes of idling time and when you move them again water pours out of the exhaust.

Brandon24pdx

I don't make it a race to get the car in gear and moving after starting the engine. A good 20 seconds or so gives ample time to let the oil pressure stabilize.

Legend2TL

R&T did a writeup on it, there were no wear issues from what I remember, warm start-up has negligible wear. There were some decent city fuel savings but the major disadvantage was you had to be a alert driver to always remember to use it.

teranfon

I would argue the article makes a few generalizations that do not apply to all start up conditions. First off, everyone's interpretation of "cold" and "winter" is different depending where you live and the time of year. For the next few days it will be -35 here, and there is no way I would start one of my vehicles and drive away after a few seconds. I wonder if the author has seen an oil pressure gauge taking a second or two to move and heard a power steering pump squeal away upon a very cold start up. At the other extreme, some of my trucks spike oil pressure at cold start up in winter conditions because the oil is way too thick from being cold. Secondly, as mirror mentioned, idling does not hurt a car equipped with modern fuel injection and electronics. I'm sure many here who commute spend much of their time idling away in traffic. Ten seconds is all you need? There isn't enough time for me to go into the different expansion rate of aluminum pistons and steel cylinder liners. I also think diesel and turbocharged engines, becoming much more common, would need much more than ten seconds.

Personally, I think the article makes some good points, but far too generalized to be taken seriously for all winter conditions.




Terry