Intelligent Vehicles?
01-31-2011, 10:58 PM
#1
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Intelligent Vehicles?
Possibly related to the "Are Fun Cars Doomed" and "Idiot Drivers" Thread.
Not sure I'd be happy about a car that had certain systems that I couldn't turn off. Although I can see the benefit of Collision Warning/Avoidance and Blind Spot detection type things for sure.
http://www.npr.org/2011/01/31/133374...rs-to-back-off
Listen: http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPl...09&m=133381198
Not sure I'd be happy about a car that had certain systems that I couldn't turn off. Although I can see the benefit of Collision Warning/Avoidance and Blind Spot detection type things for sure.
In 2009, more than 30,000 Americans were killed in car crashes. Most of those accidents were avoidable — the result of driver error.
Now, the auto industry wants to cut down on traffic deaths by using vehicle-to-vehicle communications technology.
The technology enables cars in close proximity to one another to share information wirelessly. The premise behind it is that most crashes are avoidable if drivers have enough time to react.
....
Now, the auto industry wants to cut down on traffic deaths by using vehicle-to-vehicle communications technology.
The technology enables cars in close proximity to one another to share information wirelessly. The premise behind it is that most crashes are avoidable if drivers have enough time to react.
....
http://www.npr.org/2011/01/31/133374...rs-to-back-off
Listen: http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPl...09&m=133381198
sometimes annoying not being able to turn off certain systems very easily, but sometimes they need to be difficult to disable though, considering that it is for safety (ie: airbags 
)
02-01-2011, 07:50 AM
#3
I often have the mindset that the more electronics, computers, complicated systems, and 'features' --- the more things to breakdown. I definitely see the benefit of some 'features' but what's to say they can't cause major issue too. For example, what if the collision avoidance system goes wacko and your car suddenly slams on the brakes or swerves while you're on the highway without any danger in sight.... oops, that's a scary malfunction. Stuff like that.... I definitely enjoy a lot of features but there are many I could do without.
02-01-2011, 10:37 AM
#4
I often have the mindset that the more electronics, computers, complicated systems, and 'features' --- the more things to breakdown. I definitely see the benefit of some 'features' but what's to say they can't cause major issue too. For example, what if the collision avoidance system goes wacko and your car suddenly slams on the brakes or swerves while you're on the highway without any danger in sight.... oops, that's a scary malfunction. Stuff like that.... I definitely enjoy a lot of features but there are many I could do without.
and the other issue i see too, is what happens when the second and third owners get them, and can't afford to fix the system properly?; or the shade tree mechanics who try and fix the system and just butcher the system...
02-01-2011, 10:39 AM
#5
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Driver education!!!! 
02-01-2011, 11:23 AM
#6
I'll add a few...
1) Tire pressure sensors - because people apparently can't check their own tire pressure and end up blowing a tire or losing control of their vehicle.
2) Self parking system - some drivers are so dumb that they literally do not know how to park their own car.
3) Auto cruise control - drivers can't consciously leave enough room between them and the car in front of them on their own, nor do they have the basic sensory ability to watch the car ahead of them and match its speed. This is not difficult, we've been doing it for decades.
4) Auto braking - duh?
5) Lane change warning - I don't even know what to say about this one.
And tech companies are developing devices that will read speed signs (or have zones programmed in) that regulate how fast you can go and where (GTR already has vaguely similar to this). The feds are trying to regulate everything, like the texting while driving law. Texting on your phone is no different than scrolling through songs on your ipod to pick one, or whatever else. Are we going to make a law for that too? It makes no sense. Or forcing people to wear a seatbelt. The only person you hurt by not wearing your seatbelt is yourself, no one should have the right to tell you to wear one. We have to leave some things to common sense and let people make decisions, for better or worse.
This may sound bad to some...but I'm to the point where I'm tired of everyone having to accommodate other's lack of common sense. And I'm sorry, but people need to learn from their mistakes. And they need to think on their own. Adding all these "driver aids" is doing nothing but dulling people's brain activity. You don't fix driver error by handicapping the driver.
1) Tire pressure sensors - because people apparently can't check their own tire pressure and end up blowing a tire or losing control of their vehicle.
2) Self parking system - some drivers are so dumb that they literally do not know how to park their own car.
3) Auto cruise control - drivers can't consciously leave enough room between them and the car in front of them on their own, nor do they have the basic sensory ability to watch the car ahead of them and match its speed. This is not difficult, we've been doing it for decades.
4) Auto braking - duh?
5) Lane change warning - I don't even know what to say about this one.
And tech companies are developing devices that will read speed signs (or have zones programmed in) that regulate how fast you can go and where (GTR already has vaguely similar to this). The feds are trying to regulate everything, like the texting while driving law. Texting on your phone is no different than scrolling through songs on your ipod to pick one, or whatever else. Are we going to make a law for that too? It makes no sense. Or forcing people to wear a seatbelt. The only person you hurt by not wearing your seatbelt is yourself, no one should have the right to tell you to wear one. We have to leave some things to common sense and let people make decisions, for better or worse.
This may sound bad to some...but I'm to the point where I'm tired of everyone having to accommodate other's lack of common sense. And I'm sorry, but people need to learn from their mistakes. And they need to think on their own. Adding all these "driver aids" is doing nothing but dulling people's brain activity. You don't fix driver error by handicapping the driver.
02-01-2011, 12:59 PM
#7
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Commercial airliners have had a system called TCAS (Traffic Collision Avoidance System) that works in 3 dimensions. I've always thought that a system for automobiles would be a good idea. Sensors to actively locate other automobiles in close proximity, and another layer, simliar to TCAS, where each automobile will tell others directly around it exactly where it is. Add to that, auto braking and a lot of lives could be spared.
Sounds like big brother, but really the system will interact with those cars directly around it. So privacy claims and such are irrelevant. Cost would probably be the biggest block, but economy of scale would take care of that after a while.
Sounds like big brother, but really the system will interact with those cars directly around it. So privacy claims and such are irrelevant. Cost would probably be the biggest block, but economy of scale would take care of that after a while.
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02-01-2011, 07:51 PM
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Commercial airliners have had a system called TCAS (Traffic Collision Avoidance System) that works in 3 dimensions. I've always thought that a system for automobiles would be a good idea. Sensors to actively locate other automobiles in close proximity, and another layer, simliar to TCAS, where each automobile will tell others directly around it exactly where it is. Add to that, auto braking and a lot of lives could be spared.
Sounds like big brother, but really the system will interact with those cars directly around it. So privacy claims and such are irrelevant. Cost would probably be the biggest block, but economy of scale would take care of that after a while.
Sounds like big brother, but really the system will interact with those cars directly around it. So privacy claims and such are irrelevant. Cost would probably be the biggest block, but economy of scale would take care of that after a while.
Well, that sounds a lot like what the article is talking about. At least the sensors/communication regarding the cars around you. And it sounds as if it is cost effective.
I don't see any need to have privacy issues. Nothing needs to be stored and nothing "personal" or "identifiable" needs to be transmitted/shared between cars. The privacy issues start when some busy-body wants to include car info (make, model, license plate, etc, etc.) and/or record actions/parameters in some black box or another. IMHO.
02-01-2011, 08:33 PM
#9
Suzuka Master
I'll add a few...
1) Tire pressure sensors - because people apparently can't check their own tire pressure and end up blowing a tire or losing control of their vehicle.
2) Self parking system - some drivers are so dumb that they literally do not know how to park their own car.
3) Auto cruise control - drivers can't consciously leave enough room between them and the car in front of them on their own, nor do they have the basic sensory ability to watch the car ahead of them and match its speed. This is not difficult, we've been doing it for decades.
4) Auto braking - duh?
5) Lane change warning - I don't even know what to say about this one.
And tech companies are developing devices that will read speed signs (or have zones programmed in) that regulate how fast you can go and where (GTR already has vaguely similar to this). The feds are trying to regulate everything, like the texting while driving law. Texting on your phone is no different than scrolling through songs on your ipod to pick one, or whatever else. Are we going to make a law for that too? It makes no sense. Or forcing people to wear a seatbelt. The only person you hurt by not wearing your seatbelt is yourself, no one should have the right to tell you to wear one. We have to leave some things to common sense and let people make decisions, for better or worse.
This may sound bad to some...but I'm to the point where I'm tired of everyone having to accommodate other's lack of common sense. And I'm sorry, but people need to learn from their mistakes. And they need to think on their own. Adding all these "driver aids" is doing nothing but dulling people's brain activity. You don't fix driver error by handicapping the driver.
1) Tire pressure sensors - because people apparently can't check their own tire pressure and end up blowing a tire or losing control of their vehicle.
2) Self parking system - some drivers are so dumb that they literally do not know how to park their own car.
3) Auto cruise control - drivers can't consciously leave enough room between them and the car in front of them on their own, nor do they have the basic sensory ability to watch the car ahead of them and match its speed. This is not difficult, we've been doing it for decades.
4) Auto braking - duh?
5) Lane change warning - I don't even know what to say about this one.
And tech companies are developing devices that will read speed signs (or have zones programmed in) that regulate how fast you can go and where (GTR already has vaguely similar to this). The feds are trying to regulate everything, like the texting while driving law. Texting on your phone is no different than scrolling through songs on your ipod to pick one, or whatever else. Are we going to make a law for that too? It makes no sense. Or forcing people to wear a seatbelt. The only person you hurt by not wearing your seatbelt is yourself, no one should have the right to tell you to wear one. We have to leave some things to common sense and let people make decisions, for better or worse.
This may sound bad to some...but I'm to the point where I'm tired of everyone having to accommodate other's lack of common sense. And I'm sorry, but people need to learn from their mistakes. And they need to think on their own. Adding all these "driver aids" is doing nothing but dulling people's brain activity. You don't fix driver error by handicapping the driver.
1) Tire pressure monitor - doesnt take into effect till psi drops below 20-25 I believe. Wouldnt let that happen to my car anyway.
2) Self parking system - I know how to park, and its quicker to park by yourself. Even if you dont get it the first try.
3) Auto cruise control - I dont even use my regular cruise control because its really weird not having the foot on the gas or brake. I like to be in control.
4) Auto braking- why the hell do i need this. I know how to brake. And I pay attention.
5) Lane change warning - I'm not that lazy as to turn my head in the direction i'm changing lanes in.
Now that I covered, why I dont need these, and while automakers will eventually be putting these in as standards as the future comes, can I Have one without these
All those lights and beeps these things generate will just be annoying.
02-01-2011, 08:58 PM
#10
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Lets say I had those above features.
1) Tire pressure monitor - doesnt take into effect till psi drops below 20-25 I believe. Wouldnt let that happen to my car anyway.
2) Self parking system - I know how to park, and its quicker to park by yourself. Even if you dont get it the first try.
3) Auto cruise control - I dont even use my regular cruise control because its really weird not having the foot on the gas or brake. I like to be in control.
4) Auto braking- why the hell do i need this. I know how to brake. And I pay attention.
5) Lane change warning - I'm not that lazy as to turn my head in the direction i'm changing lanes in.
.....
1) Tire pressure monitor - doesnt take into effect till psi drops below 20-25 I believe. Wouldnt let that happen to my car anyway.
2) Self parking system - I know how to park, and its quicker to park by yourself. Even if you dont get it the first try.
3) Auto cruise control - I dont even use my regular cruise control because its really weird not having the foot on the gas or brake. I like to be in control.
4) Auto braking- why the hell do i need this. I know how to brake. And I pay attention.
5) Lane change warning - I'm not that lazy as to turn my head in the direction i'm changing lanes in.
.....
1.) Got it. Like it. Use it all the time; I have real time, though, not only when it drops below x psi.
2.) Same. Wouldn't use it. I can park. Thanks.
3.) Might use it. I use Cruise a lot. I've got a lead foot and have had enough tickets. Besides ticket costs are out of control.
4.) No thanks.
5.) No thanks. I prefer to pay attention to what's going on around me.
BUT, these things are not what the Intelligent Car article are about. At least not as isolated items. It's about integrating some of these technologies while wirelessly communicating with other cars near you so that, as a group, you're a "network".
IOW - you car will know that the car two cars ahead has his turn signal on and is slowing even if you can't see it happening due to the cars in front of you.
02-01-2011, 09:15 PM
#11
You're right, this does sound terrible..... some (arguably most) These technologies are there to protect the innocent, not the idiot screwing things up.
Because "people learning from their own mistakes" could cause the un-intentional suffering and death of one 3year old girl. (And that cost is FAR to high even for someone to "learn their lesson".)
02-01-2011, 10:55 PM
#12
Well, that sounds a lot like what the article is talking about. At least the sensors/communication regarding the cars around you. And it sounds as if it is cost effective.
I don't see any need to have privacy issues. Nothing needs to be stored and nothing "personal" or "identifiable" needs to be transmitted/shared between cars. The privacy issues start when some busy-body wants to include car info (make, model, license plate, etc, etc.) and/or record actions/parameters in some black box or another. IMHO.
I don't see any need to have privacy issues. Nothing needs to be stored and nothing "personal" or "identifiable" needs to be transmitted/shared between cars. The privacy issues start when some busy-body wants to include car info (make, model, license plate, etc, etc.) and/or record actions/parameters in some black box or another. IMHO.
and iirc police are not actually allowed to use the info from it in an accident investigation, without consent or a search warrant (it be like them searching through your personal file cabinet at home, it's your info to keep private)
02-01-2011, 10:57 PM
#13
Lets say I had those above features.
1) Tire pressure monitor - doesnt take into effect till psi drops below 20-25 I believe. Wouldnt let that happen to my car anyway.
2) Self parking system - I know how to park, and its quicker to park by yourself. Even if you dont get it the first try.
3) Auto cruise control - I dont even use my regular cruise control because its really weird not having the foot on the gas or brake. I like to be in control.
4) Auto braking- why the hell do i need this. I know how to brake. And I pay attention.
5) Lane change warning - I'm not that lazy as to turn my head in the direction i'm changing lanes in.
Now that I covered, why I dont need these, and while automakers will eventually be putting these in as standards as the future comes, can I Have one without these
All those lights and beeps these things generate will just be annoying.
1) Tire pressure monitor - doesnt take into effect till psi drops below 20-25 I believe. Wouldnt let that happen to my car anyway.
2) Self parking system - I know how to park, and its quicker to park by yourself. Even if you dont get it the first try.
3) Auto cruise control - I dont even use my regular cruise control because its really weird not having the foot on the gas or brake. I like to be in control.
4) Auto braking- why the hell do i need this. I know how to brake. And I pay attention.
5) Lane change warning - I'm not that lazy as to turn my head in the direction i'm changing lanes in.
Now that I covered, why I dont need these, and while automakers will eventually be putting these in as standards as the future comes, can I Have one without these
All those lights and beeps these things generate will just be annoying.
02-01-2011, 10:59 PM
#14
I differ.
1.) Got it. Like it. Use it all the time; I have real time, though, not only when it drops below x psi.
2.) Same. Wouldn't use it. I can park. Thanks.
3.) Might use it. I use Cruise a lot. I've got a lead foot and have had enough tickets. Besides ticket costs are out of control.
4.) No thanks.
5.) No thanks. I prefer to pay attention to what's going on around me.
BUT, these things are not what the Intelligent Car article are about. At least not as isolated items. It's about integrating some of these technologies while wirelessly communicating with other cars near you so that, as a group, you're a "network".
IOW - you car will know that the car two cars ahead has his turn signal on and is slowing even if you can't see it happening due to the cars in front of you.
1.) Got it. Like it. Use it all the time; I have real time, though, not only when it drops below x psi.
2.) Same. Wouldn't use it. I can park. Thanks.
3.) Might use it. I use Cruise a lot. I've got a lead foot and have had enough tickets. Besides ticket costs are out of control.
4.) No thanks.
5.) No thanks. I prefer to pay attention to what's going on around me.
BUT, these things are not what the Intelligent Car article are about. At least not as isolated items. It's about integrating some of these technologies while wirelessly communicating with other cars near you so that, as a group, you're a "network".
IOW - you car will know that the car two cars ahead has his turn signal on and is slowing even if you can't see it happening due to the cars in front of you.
02-01-2011, 11:28 PM
#15
Suzuka Master
I differ.
1.) Got it. Like it. Use it all the time; I have real time, though, not only when it drops below x psi.
2.) Same. Wouldn't use it. I can park. Thanks.
3.) Might use it. I use Cruise a lot. I've got a lead foot and have had enough tickets. Besides ticket costs are out of control.
4.) No thanks.
5.) No thanks. I prefer to pay attention to what's going on around me.
BUT, these things are not what the Intelligent Car article are about. At least not as isolated items. It's about integrating some of these technologies while wirelessly communicating with other cars near you so that, as a group, you're a "network".
IOW - you car will know that the car two cars ahead has his turn signal on and is slowing even if you can't see it happening due to the cars in front of you.
1.) Got it. Like it. Use it all the time; I have real time, though, not only when it drops below x psi.
2.) Same. Wouldn't use it. I can park. Thanks.
3.) Might use it. I use Cruise a lot. I've got a lead foot and have had enough tickets. Besides ticket costs are out of control.
4.) No thanks.
5.) No thanks. I prefer to pay attention to what's going on around me.
BUT, these things are not what the Intelligent Car article are about. At least not as isolated items. It's about integrating some of these technologies while wirelessly communicating with other cars near you so that, as a group, you're a "network".
IOW - you car will know that the car two cars ahead has his turn signal on and is slowing even if you can't see it happening due to the cars in front of you.
02-01-2011, 11:57 PM
#17
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The "network"/communication thing between cars sounds kind of neat. Probably lots of applications. What I don't like is the car taking action independently and/or not being able to turn off certain systems. Traction Control, just as an example, I don't mind having it; I don't mind it kicking in during normal day-to-day driving. It seems to do what it's supposed to do. BUT, I want to be able to turn it off when I determine it's appropriate to do so.
02-02-2011, 12:03 AM
#18
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
02-02-2011, 11:05 AM
#19
Ah, common sense and self empowerment in action. Thank you.
I think this feature is more geared for people falling asleep at the wheel, but still.
I agree with you. Just such a shame car tech has to be taken to this level.
Last edited by RedRyder; 02-02-2011 at 11:15 AM.
02-02-2011, 01:17 PM
#20
'07 TL-S. Helps me keep an eye on pressures without breaking out the pressure gauge. 3 out of 4 are spot on, the 4th is off by about one-half psi. It's got a separate dummy light or message if the pressure in any tire drops below 27 or 28 psi.
The "network"/communication thing between cars sounds kind of neat. Probably lots of applications. What I don't like is the car taking action independently and/or not being able to turn off certain systems. Traction Control, just as an example, I don't mind having it; I don't mind it kicking in during normal day-to-day driving. It seems to do what it's supposed to do. BUT, I want to be able to turn it off when I determine it's appropriate to do so.
The "network"/communication thing between cars sounds kind of neat. Probably lots of applications. What I don't like is the car taking action independently and/or not being able to turn off certain systems. Traction Control, just as an example, I don't mind having it; I don't mind it kicking in during normal day-to-day driving. It seems to do what it's supposed to do. BUT, I want to be able to turn it off when I determine it's appropriate to do so.
02-02-2011, 02:09 PM
#21
Missing my
I agree with OP that this is related to the "are fun cars doomed" thread! It stands to reason that we can eventually expect governors on our cars that are specific to speed limits. Sound crazy? Did any of you think we would all have GPS tracking on each of us 15 years ago? I know I lean toward paranoia, but we keep getting sold these new ways of being controlled in the name of safety and convenience.
02-02-2011, 02:21 PM
#22
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02-02-2011, 08:09 PM
#23
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02-03-2011, 02:27 AM
#25
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I'll add a few...
1) Tire pressure sensors - because people apparently can't check their own tire pressure and end up blowing a tire or losing control of their vehicle.
2) Self parking system - some drivers are so dumb that they literally do not know how to park their own car.
3) Auto cruise control - drivers can't consciously leave enough room between them and the car in front of them on their own, nor do they have the basic sensory ability to watch the car ahead of them and match its speed. This is not difficult, we've been doing it for decades.
4) Auto braking - duh?
5) Lane change warning - I don't even know what to say about this one.
And tech companies are developing devices that will read speed signs (or have zones programmed in) that regulate how fast you can go and where (GTR already has vaguely similar to this). The feds are trying to regulate everything, like the texting while driving law. Texting on your phone is no different than scrolling through songs on your ipod to pick one, or whatever else. Are we going to make a law for that too? It makes no sense. Or forcing people to wear a seatbelt. The only person you hurt by not wearing your seatbelt is yourself, no one should have the right to tell you to wear one. We have to leave some things to common sense and let people make decisions, for better or worse.
This may sound bad to some...but I'm to the point where I'm tired of everyone having to accommodate other's lack of common sense. And I'm sorry, but people need to learn from their mistakes. And they need to think on their own. Adding all these "driver aids" is doing nothing but dulling people's brain activity. You don't fix driver error by handicapping the driver.
1) Tire pressure sensors - because people apparently can't check their own tire pressure and end up blowing a tire or losing control of their vehicle.
2) Self parking system - some drivers are so dumb that they literally do not know how to park their own car.
3) Auto cruise control - drivers can't consciously leave enough room between them and the car in front of them on their own, nor do they have the basic sensory ability to watch the car ahead of them and match its speed. This is not difficult, we've been doing it for decades.
4) Auto braking - duh?
5) Lane change warning - I don't even know what to say about this one.
And tech companies are developing devices that will read speed signs (or have zones programmed in) that regulate how fast you can go and where (GTR already has vaguely similar to this). The feds are trying to regulate everything, like the texting while driving law. Texting on your phone is no different than scrolling through songs on your ipod to pick one, or whatever else. Are we going to make a law for that too? It makes no sense. Or forcing people to wear a seatbelt. The only person you hurt by not wearing your seatbelt is yourself, no one should have the right to tell you to wear one. We have to leave some things to common sense and let people make decisions, for better or worse.
This may sound bad to some...but I'm to the point where I'm tired of everyone having to accommodate other's lack of common sense. And I'm sorry, but people need to learn from their mistakes. And they need to think on their own. Adding all these "driver aids" is doing nothing but dulling people's brain activity. You don't fix driver error by handicapping the driver.
02-03-2011, 07:14 AM
#26
AZ Community Team
The MP3 CD, Aux input and TPM are the three features that 2007 TL's had that I wish my 2005 had.
'07 TL-S. Helps me keep an eye on pressures without breaking out the pressure gauge. 3 out of 4 are spot on, the 4th is off by about one-half psi. It's got a separate dummy light or message if the pressure in any tire drops below 27 or 28 psi.
The "network"/communication thing between cars sounds kind of neat. Probably lots of applications. What I don't like is the car taking action independently and/or not being able to turn off certain systems. Traction Control, just as an example, I don't mind having it; I don't mind it kicking in during normal day-to-day driving. It seems to do what it's supposed to do. BUT, I want to be able to turn it off when I determine it's appropriate to do so.
The "network"/communication thing between cars sounds kind of neat. Probably lots of applications. What I don't like is the car taking action independently and/or not being able to turn off certain systems. Traction Control, just as an example, I don't mind having it; I don't mind it kicking in during normal day-to-day driving. It seems to do what it's supposed to do. BUT, I want to be able to turn it off when I determine it's appropriate to do so.
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