Imports out, american Muscle in?
#42
Originally Posted by jtkz13
I dont think I'll ever go a period of time without owning some sort of rwd V8 car.
People who rip on the because they dont handle need to give it a rest. If you're talking about road-racing or auto-xing, then the driver makes a MUCH larger difference in track times than the car's setup. I was chasing down a heavily modified Civic Si (coilovers, sticky tires, etc) at Gingerman road course, and I have drag shocks & drag tires.
People who rip on the because they dont handle need to give it a rest. If you're talking about road-racing or auto-xing, then the driver makes a MUCH larger difference in track times than the car's setup. I was chasing down a heavily modified Civic Si (coilovers, sticky tires, etc) at Gingerman road course, and I have drag shocks & drag tires.
#43
Just for the record, a couple of my die hard dometic friends dont believe any car with fuel injection can be considered a muscle car. Their of the opinion that a muscle has to have 4 barrel carb for a heart.
Personally, I wouldnt mind having a WS6 in addition to my Maxima.
Personally, I wouldnt mind having a WS6 in addition to my Maxima.
#44
Originally Posted by MADCAT
With Toyota becoming the 2nd largest Auotmaker in the world with its sales leading in the US and followed close behind with the other Japanese makers. The domestics have a long way to go.
[/B]
[/B]
As far as a vette getting better mpgs than a Z, probably has a lot to do with forcing the driver to shift from 1st to 4th during conservative driving and a tall ass 6th gear, not the engine.
#45
Detroit's Big Problem: Its Cars Are Never The Best
http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightlin...hotopanel..2.*
It's the final scene of my favorite Charles Bronson movie that keeps me coming back. End of game. Bang. You're dead. Killed a perfectly good 1972 Mustang Mach 1, but my path was chosen.
Now I tell the truth for a living. A good living. I get big checks to write this garbage. Big enough that I can buy any car I want. OK, that's a stretch. The Mechanic cannot afford a Rolls or a Bugatti, but I've got money to spend. And I've got good taste. I'm also college-educated. Literate. And I appreciate the best. When I spend my money I spend it on quality goods. And the car I choose to be seen in must be a quality item. The finest of its kind.
In other words, I would not buy an American car. It's hard for me to even type that. Fact is, I'd like to buy an American car, a great American car. It just doesn't exist.
This only occurred to me recently, when my father, The Mechanic Sr., asked me what car I would buy if I could buy anything. I realized there wasn't an American car or truck on the list. Not one I lusted after.
Oh sure, the latest batch of goods from Eminem's hometown is worth a look; the Cadillac CTS is strong, the Buick Enclave is very good and the Pontiac G8 GT is a fine machine. I can also say good things about the Dodge Challenger SRT8, the Ford Flex and the Chevy Malibu. I also think the Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 is pretty cool. And then there's the Corvette, which is likable in Z06 form and downright desirable in ZR1 trim. They're all good cars and trucks; they're just not the best.
And I said I want the best. The very best. And for the best you simply don't shop in Dearborn, Auburn Hills or Detroit's Renaissance Center.
Shame, really. But the facts are the facts. The bar keeps moving and Ford, Chrysler and General Motors are forever in catch-up mode. Have been since the first muscle car era became the first energy crisis. Hate to be the one to say it out loud, but Detroit remains a lap down.
Sure I'm kicking it when it's bleeding all over the floor. With full force and a pointy boot. But this is why it's down. Eventually, not making the best catches up with you.
Now your panties are in a big ball of a bunch, aren't they? Well, before you fire off some half-witted comment, keep reading. I'm about to cite examples.
For example: the new Corvette ZR1. 638 hp. Fastest, most powerful car in GM's 100-year history. Yawn. The new Mercedes SL65 AMG Black Series packs 670 hp. It also looks like it costs six figures (the ZR1 is just a Z06 with a window cut in its hood) and doesn't pack a Wal-Mart interior.
I know, I know. The ZR1 is $100,000 while the SL65 Black Series will be more than twice that. So what? The Benz is still the best.
Screw price. I'm dog tired of giving GM and the rest of Detroit that out. Their cars are almost always cheaper and usually bigger. That's their game. They can't make it better, so they make it cheaper and bigger. Kinda like Costco. You get 500 rolls of the world's roughest toilet paper for $1. Your ass is killing you, but there's no arguing the value. (Ironically, the Germans make fine automobiles but produce the world's roughest TP.)
It worked for the Corvette Z06. "As fast as exotics for less than half the price," said the ad copy. But now the world has the Nissan GT-R. It costs about the same as the Z06, but delivers more speed, a better interior, more features and more technology. Don't even get me started on build quality. Without a doubt, the GT-R is the best high-performance car you can buy for $80,000.
See, the bar keeps moving and Detroit's a lap down.
I could go on with specific examples, but it's easier to just make a blanket statement: No American car, from the lowly Ford Focus to the mighty ZR1, is truly the best car in its segment in the world. Not one. The biggest of big pickup trucks being the exception and that's only because they're still the only game in town for dually diesels. Honda and BMW don't make those.
Sad, really. And it's not something Detroit wants to hear. They read the praise in the press and they believe their own PR. Cadillac really thinks the CTS is as good or better than anything in the world. Better than a BMW 5 Series. Better than a Mercedes E-Class. Sorry, guys. It's closer than you've ever been, but it's still a lap behind.
And if the members of the automotive press actually voted with their dollars instead of writing with their hearts, they would all be driving something from Japan or Germany. Well, the smart ones would anyway. The ones who don't live in Detroit. -- The Mechanic, Inside Line Contributor
Now I tell the truth for a living. A good living. I get big checks to write this garbage. Big enough that I can buy any car I want. OK, that's a stretch. The Mechanic cannot afford a Rolls or a Bugatti, but I've got money to spend. And I've got good taste. I'm also college-educated. Literate. And I appreciate the best. When I spend my money I spend it on quality goods. And the car I choose to be seen in must be a quality item. The finest of its kind.
In other words, I would not buy an American car. It's hard for me to even type that. Fact is, I'd like to buy an American car, a great American car. It just doesn't exist.
This only occurred to me recently, when my father, The Mechanic Sr., asked me what car I would buy if I could buy anything. I realized there wasn't an American car or truck on the list. Not one I lusted after.
Oh sure, the latest batch of goods from Eminem's hometown is worth a look; the Cadillac CTS is strong, the Buick Enclave is very good and the Pontiac G8 GT is a fine machine. I can also say good things about the Dodge Challenger SRT8, the Ford Flex and the Chevy Malibu. I also think the Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 is pretty cool. And then there's the Corvette, which is likable in Z06 form and downright desirable in ZR1 trim. They're all good cars and trucks; they're just not the best.
And I said I want the best. The very best. And for the best you simply don't shop in Dearborn, Auburn Hills or Detroit's Renaissance Center.
Shame, really. But the facts are the facts. The bar keeps moving and Ford, Chrysler and General Motors are forever in catch-up mode. Have been since the first muscle car era became the first energy crisis. Hate to be the one to say it out loud, but Detroit remains a lap down.
Sure I'm kicking it when it's bleeding all over the floor. With full force and a pointy boot. But this is why it's down. Eventually, not making the best catches up with you.
Now your panties are in a big ball of a bunch, aren't they? Well, before you fire off some half-witted comment, keep reading. I'm about to cite examples.
For example: the new Corvette ZR1. 638 hp. Fastest, most powerful car in GM's 100-year history. Yawn. The new Mercedes SL65 AMG Black Series packs 670 hp. It also looks like it costs six figures (the ZR1 is just a Z06 with a window cut in its hood) and doesn't pack a Wal-Mart interior.
I know, I know. The ZR1 is $100,000 while the SL65 Black Series will be more than twice that. So what? The Benz is still the best.
Screw price. I'm dog tired of giving GM and the rest of Detroit that out. Their cars are almost always cheaper and usually bigger. That's their game. They can't make it better, so they make it cheaper and bigger. Kinda like Costco. You get 500 rolls of the world's roughest toilet paper for $1. Your ass is killing you, but there's no arguing the value. (Ironically, the Germans make fine automobiles but produce the world's roughest TP.)
It worked for the Corvette Z06. "As fast as exotics for less than half the price," said the ad copy. But now the world has the Nissan GT-R. It costs about the same as the Z06, but delivers more speed, a better interior, more features and more technology. Don't even get me started on build quality. Without a doubt, the GT-R is the best high-performance car you can buy for $80,000.
See, the bar keeps moving and Detroit's a lap down.
I could go on with specific examples, but it's easier to just make a blanket statement: No American car, from the lowly Ford Focus to the mighty ZR1, is truly the best car in its segment in the world. Not one. The biggest of big pickup trucks being the exception and that's only because they're still the only game in town for dually diesels. Honda and BMW don't make those.
Sad, really. And it's not something Detroit wants to hear. They read the praise in the press and they believe their own PR. Cadillac really thinks the CTS is as good or better than anything in the world. Better than a BMW 5 Series. Better than a Mercedes E-Class. Sorry, guys. It's closer than you've ever been, but it's still a lap behind.
And if the members of the automotive press actually voted with their dollars instead of writing with their hearts, they would all be driving something from Japan or Germany. Well, the smart ones would anyway. The ones who don't live in Detroit. -- The Mechanic, Inside Line Contributor
#47
They are great for the consumer...not so great for the makers. If the domestics don't sell enough normal cars, they won't have a business case to make these muscle cars. Get then while you can I say.
#51
Holy thread revival Batman!
And Crazy Acura wanting American Muscle?!?! Ok ok, I guess back in 2004 it made some sense - who knew that gas prices would sky rocket to $4, back in 2004? (ok all of us knew, but we didn't expect it to get this high.)
And Crazy Acura wanting American Muscle?!?! Ok ok, I guess back in 2004 it made some sense - who knew that gas prices would sky rocket to $4, back in 2004? (ok all of us knew, but we didn't expect it to get this high.)
#52
i remember pumping at $1.45 4 yrs ago, and almost fainted with the thought of $4-5 a gallon. but then again i was making like $8 an hr.....
#54
The only ones that I would ever honestly consider is either the CTS-V and the Vette. Otherwise though, I'm sticking with my imports. I just feel certain companies (not all of them...trust me) outside the US have a knack for cars more than we do.
#56
I agree though, that they may be digging themselves a pit with gas prices and all.
#57
old thread =p
people actually claim cruising averages of 18mpg with big 'ol 400hp LS's in their GTO's and vettes. those engines are surprisingly efficient if those anecdotes are true; however they probably don't get such high numbers cause who would actualyl cruise with all that power available =p.
i was looking at gto's for a bit and still would probably want one some day (or probably just get a vette wen the prices go down a bit lol). the torque on those engines is insane (also test drove a new g8 with 365hp and 385lb. torque), there's nothing quite like doing a mini-step on a turn and chirping the back end like it's nothing lol.
people actually claim cruising averages of 18mpg with big 'ol 400hp LS's in their GTO's and vettes. those engines are surprisingly efficient if those anecdotes are true; however they probably don't get such high numbers cause who would actualyl cruise with all that power available =p.
i was looking at gto's for a bit and still would probably want one some day (or probably just get a vette wen the prices go down a bit lol). the torque on those engines is insane (also test drove a new g8 with 365hp and 385lb. torque), there's nothing quite like doing a mini-step on a turn and chirping the back end like it's nothing lol.
#58
I gave up lots of luxuries when I sold the CL-S and bought a GTO. I went from getting 20mpg-city/30mpg-HW in the Acura to 17mpg-city/24mph-HW in my '06 GTO. That is not a drastic difference, but I did take 2+ seconds off my 1/4 mile ET
It has been worth every extra penny to me...
YMMV
Jabo
It has been worth every extra penny to me...
YMMV
Jabo
#59
teh Senior Instigator
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 44,094
Likes: 980
From: Huntington Beach, CA -> Ashburn, VA -> Raleigh, NC -> Walnut Creek, CA
old thread =p
people actually claim cruising averages of 18mpg with big 'ol 400hp LS's in their GTO's and vettes. those engines are surprisingly efficient if those anecdotes are true; however they probably don't get such high numbers cause who would actualyl cruise with all that power available =p.
people actually claim cruising averages of 18mpg with big 'ol 400hp LS's in their GTO's and vettes. those engines are surprisingly efficient if those anecdotes are true; however they probably don't get such high numbers cause who would actualyl cruise with all that power available =p.
#60
teh Senior Instigator
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 44,094
Likes: 980
From: Huntington Beach, CA -> Ashburn, VA -> Raleigh, NC -> Walnut Creek, CA
#61
I'm not sure if American muscle is "in", but it sure as hell is a lot of fun. The 6MT Accord makes me smile every time I drive it. The American performance stuff makes me laugh like an idiot every time I drive IT.
A fine Japanese or European car is like a classy, elegant, and sophisticated wife. Something you appreciate and enjoy having around you. An American performance car is the slutty mistress. Loud, unabashed, unapologetic, and always up for more.
Both have their places.
Terry
A fine Japanese or European car is like a classy, elegant, and sophisticated wife. Something you appreciate and enjoy having around you. An American performance car is the slutty mistress. Loud, unabashed, unapologetic, and always up for more.
Both have their places.
Terry
#62
I'm not sure if American muscle is "in", but it sure as hell is a lot of fun. The 6MT Accord makes me smile every time I drive it. The American performance stuff makes me laugh like an idiot every time I drive IT.
A fine Japanese or European car is like a classy, elegant, and sophisticated wife. Something you appreciate and enjoy having around you. An American performance car is the slutty mistress. Loud, unabashed, unapologetic, and always up for more.
Both have their places.
Terry
A fine Japanese or European car is like a classy, elegant, and sophisticated wife. Something you appreciate and enjoy having around you. An American performance car is the slutty mistress. Loud, unabashed, unapologetic, and always up for more.
Both have their places.
Terry
me, I'm still not looking for a steady relationship.... I'm looking for the one that likes it rough, luckily I've found her. She just takes it and takes it.... I've had my fair share of imports, from ones I've owned to ones I've driven. I think for now, for the price, I really can't go wrong. I can appreciate the TL's nice interior, but I've realized I can live well off without it
#63
A fine Japanese or European car is like a classy, elegant, and sophisticated wife. Something you appreciate and enjoy having around you. An American performance car is the slutty mistress. Loud, unabashed, unapologetic, and always up for more.
Both have their places.
Terry
Both have their places.
Terry
#64
But I do think most are liking the direction the style of American cars was heading. But now that gas is where it is, it seems America is getting all their ideas (from car design, engines, etc) from anywhere but here -- Europe, Australia and Asia seem to be the answer for the Big3. It's too bad they can't retool fast enough to meet the finicky demands of its consumers.
#65
I think the "American Muscle" cars are definitely making a come back. Their prices are a bit less, and most of the re-designs have been pretty good. Hell, I'm a Japanese driver and I would consider owning one or 2 of them.
#66
and i've been whenever i see a saleen mustang after transformers.
#68
A fine Japanese or European car is like a classy, elegant, and sophisticated wife. Something you appreciate and enjoy having around you. An American performance car is the slutty mistress. Loud, unabashed, unapologetic, and always up for more.
Both have their places.
Terry
Both have their places.
Terry
Wanna see me spank my slut!?!
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bMjU9NepqBY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bMjU9NepqBY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
#72
I'm not sure if American muscle is "in", but it sure as hell is a lot of fun. The 6MT Accord makes me smile every time I drive it. The American performance stuff makes me laugh like an idiot every time I drive IT.
A fine Japanese or European car is like a classy, elegant, and sophisticated wife. Something you appreciate and enjoy having around you. An American performance car is the slutty mistress. Loud, unabashed, unapologetic, and always up for more.
Both have their places.
Terry
A fine Japanese or European car is like a classy, elegant, and sophisticated wife. Something you appreciate and enjoy having around you. An American performance car is the slutty mistress. Loud, unabashed, unapologetic, and always up for more.
Both have their places.
Terry
#73
#74
Trolling Canuckistan
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,453
Likes: 811
From: 100 Legends Way, Boston, MA 02114
#75
I'm talking in general, I'd rather have an import instead of domestic. Better?
And I don't know if American "muscle" cars are having that much of a comeback, I almost never see a modified domestic.
#76
I'm not sure if American muscle is "in", but it sure as hell is a lot of fun. The 6MT Accord makes me smile every time I drive it. The American performance stuff makes me laugh like an idiot every time I drive IT.
A fine Japanese or European car is like a classy, elegant, and sophisticated wife. Something you appreciate and enjoy having around you. An American performance car is the slutty mistress. Loud, unabashed, unapologetic, and always up for more.
Both have their places.
Terry
A fine Japanese or European car is like a classy, elegant, and sophisticated wife. Something you appreciate and enjoy having around you. An American performance car is the slutty mistress. Loud, unabashed, unapologetic, and always up for more.
Both have their places.
Terry
I love my Accord 6mt and with my new exhaust it sounds closer to American muscle than it did stock, but I still can't get my early V8 experiences out of my head sometimes. When I hear a big cam lobe/rumbling V8 my knees get weak and I can't help but to remember the torque-a-licious feeling of a V8. But I do love passing by the gas pump when a new Stang is filling up and I'm still on a half tank.
#77
import ftw. i'd rather have a high quality, decent powered import such as the TL rather than a high powered, fast muscle car that is in the shop every few months. granted, i have some respect for the vette, but other that that
#78
#79
You guys need to wake up and pull your heads out of the sand.
#80
rawr. ur right on the fact that some cars are improving quality such as cadillac but sorry i will never own a ford or chevy. i have a malibu rental right now it has 26k miles on it and feels like it is about to fall apart