msl82

South KoreaYesterday, after driving the new rear-wheel-drive Genesis sedan at Hyundai's state-of-the-art research facility and test tracks in Namyang, Korea, we had lunch with Dr. Hyun-Soon Lee, who is President of the R&D and Corporate Product Planning and Strategy Divisions of Hyundai-Kia Motors. Dr. Lee joined Hyundai in 1984, so he has been at the company since before it sold cars in the United States (the Hyundai Excel, that gem of a subcompact, debuted here in 1986).
Dr. Lee reminded us what a big achievement the Genesis is for this automaker, which was established only four decades ago as a satellite assembly company for Ford's U.K. arm to assemble Ford Cortinas for the Korean market. Aside from those kit cars, Hyundai's first car was the 1975 Pony (which, incidentally, was designed by Giugiaro), and through the 1980s Hyundai licensed designs from Mitsubishi to build cars. Hyundai did not build its own engine until 1991, when the Alpha four-cylinder was introduced. Dr. Lee was the proud father of that engine, which is still used in the Accent.
From its first engine seventeen years ago, the company is now building a variety of four- and six-cylinder passenger-car engines and now also a completely modern V-8, the Tau, which is optional in the new Genesis luxury sedan. "It all started in 1990," recalls Dr. Lee, "when Toyota launched Lexus. We were just spectators, but we thought, 'Why couldn't we do that, also?' At the time, our daydream seemed laughable, but through diligence and hard work, our dream has come true. Until 1991, when we developed our first engine, we had no technology; we relied totally on Mitsubishi. The Alpha gave us a tremendous boost of confidence, and we now can build anything we want. We could build a 600-horsepower supercar, or we could build a $2000 people's car. But the car we have always wanted to build is the one you drove today ."
While presiding over a sumptuous lunch at Rolling Hills, Hyundai's luxurious modern hotel near its Namyang facilities, the softspoken Dr. Lee elaborated on Hyundai's technological accomplishments and growth. The tables have turned on its relationship with Mitsubishi, as Hyundai now supplies technology for the 2.0-liter and 2.4-liter Theta engines for both Mitsubishi and Chrysler. Some 1.9 million of them were built in 2007. And at this year's Beijing auto show, Lee recalled, "Dr. Dieter Zetsche announced that he would like to partner with Hyundai for four-cylinder engines."
After reflecting on this fact for a moment, Dr. Lee said, "I am not sure we want to share our technology."
The irony at the table was richer than the cream of mushroom soup. Here was the man who developed a simple, four-cylinder engine to relieve his company of its reliance on one of Japan's second-tier automakers, now able to entertain offers from the world's most prestigious automaker for an engine-sharing deal. How quickly things change in the automotive world. And how quickly one realizes that Hyundai is a force to be reckoned with.

Link

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Hyundai definitely looks like it'll soon become a automotive force that can't be overlooked anymore.

It is Hyundai's ability to package so much into a product for a lesser price than other competitors' which makes Hyundai a player in the automotive market.

hemhaw

Who wants to buy a MB with a Hyundai engine? Line forms to the left!

Black Tire

damn...Honda engines were never in M-B cars.

phile

The writer is taking things out of context. Mercedes bought out Chrysler. I think it was a few years ago, 2006 or so, that Chrysler, Mitsubishi and Hyundai built an alliance to manufacture the so-called "world engine" - a family of engines that all three automakers will share in various products of their own. That's why Hyundai is building engines "for" Mercedes...but you're not going to actually find it in an actual Mercedes Benz vehicle.

This guy is taking credit for the whole project when it was a joint venture between the three automakers.

Jackygor

Is the world engine THAT good?

msl82

Yes.

AznX TL

they're taking way too much credit, the GEMA engine is still mostly mitsubishi,and Chrysler. there are a handful of jeeps and dodges that use the engines but no MB. and the 4B11t that hyundai is using in the new genesis coupe is a mitsubishi engine built over in the mitsu plant.

AznX TL

the world engine will never see light in a MB, not just because its an asian engine. but im sure MB has its own pride to uphold, especially with BMW's twin turbo 6 being such a sought after engine from everyone.

mrdeeno

But they in the Saturn Vue!

msl82

[QUOTE=AznX TL]they're taking way too much credit, the GEMA engine is still mostly mitsubishi,and Chrysler. there are a handful of jeeps and dodges that use the engines but no MB. and the 4B11t that hyundai is using in the new genesis coupe is a mitsubishi engine built over in the mitsu plant.[/QUOTE]


Please, at least know some facts and reality before you say something, it makes you look really ignorant.

Hyundai is actually the company that designed/developed the basic blocks of the Theta engine (aka world engine); Mitsu and Chrysler has modified them somewhat, and they are paying royalties for the rights of the engine. And Hyundai makes about 60% of GEMA engines.


Also, "The initial design of the engine block was handled by Hyundai. It features siamesed bores, meaning that there is no coolant flow between cylinders. The aluminum block has cast iron cylinder liners, and different liners can be fitted to alter the engine's bore.

The heads feature electro-hydraulic variable valve timing on both the intake and exhaust side. The system was based on that used by the recent Mercedes-Benz 24-valve V6 and is quite sophisticated and expensive for a low-end engine. A variable tumble control system creates air tumbles in the intake runners at low rpms for better mixture. Valves are directly actuated by solid Bucket tappets.

"

link

Also, GEMA has five factories worldwide; two in Dundee, Michigan, United States, two in South Korea and one in Shiga, Japan.

Hyundai Genesis sedan and coupe engines are manufactored in Korea.

phile

I bolded it for you just in case you missed it the first time. You know, when you too busy trying to give all the credit to Hyundai and overlooked that detail.

bigman

Hyundai is on the right path. Think about it. With the new Genesis Coupe they are the only company to offer an affordable RWD turbo 4, and then option the bitch with a v8. If they are willing to take a step above and beyond the norm, then other manufacturers will notice.

msl82

Let me restate my opinion in case you missed it, you know, when your too busy discrediting and downplaying credits to Hyundai....

1) Hyundai was able to implemented that sophisticated M-B 6 cylinder engine system into relatively cheap 4 cylinder engine succefully. Being able successfully transfer that complex system into the 4 cylinder engine while making it cost effective, efficient and fisible is great accomplishment. Hence, Mitsubishi and crysler want to share Hyundai 4 cylinder engine technology

2) Again, Hyundai is actually the company that designed/developed the basic blocks of the Theta engine (aka world engine); Mitsu and Chrysler has modified them somewhat, and they are paying royalties for the rights of the engine. And Hyundai makes about 60% of GEMA engines.

3) Again, Hyundai now supplies technology for the 2.0-liter and 2.4-liter Theta engines for both Mitsubishi and Chrysler. Some 1.9 million of them were built in 2007. And at this year's Beijing auto show, Lee recalled, "Dr. Dieter Zetsche announced that he would like to partner with Hyundai for four-cylinder engines."


Evidence and fact is there, and people who are still narrow-minded and ignorant still turn blind eye and discredit Hyundai Engines and Hyundai cars....

AznX TL

the base engine of the genesis coupe is a 4b11t engine which is built in mitsu's plant in japan, the "twin turbo theta" engine that was shown in korea debut is going to be built in hyundai's plant.

AznX TL

1. GEMA engine was a joint venture, those 3 companies got together before the engine was in the plans. hyundai didnt build the engine and mitsu & chrysler didnt go upto them and want to have a GEMA engine. the GEMA engine doesnt belong to anyone, it belongs to GEMA. The Theta Engine belongs to hyundai. not the GEMA engine.

2. they're not paying royalties to hyundai, hence it was a equally joint venture company. they developed it together.

3. i didnt catch the 4-cylinder part, i guess its true. maybe the theta engine will show face in a C-class. but the article was misleading talking about the V8 Tau engine.

phile

1) No. You cited that article firstly to prove Hyundai designed, when in fact it didn't, that's what I was pointing out. They used architecture that already existed, and refined it.

2) Hyundai producing 60% (where are you getting that from anyway?) does not equate to them being the one who engineered it. And the GEMA engine is a joint venture. You seem to be disregarding that quite obvious fact.

3) See the "world engine" joint venture. They already have a partnership. And can you find a link that quotes Zetsche actually saying that? Look at the wording carefully...He "recalled"...

And no one is discrediting Hyundai. You, on the other hand, are on this gung ho mission trying to make Hyundai something that it's not.

It's not a forerunner in car design. Very few, VERY FEW, Hyundais have any original design elements. The vast majority are generic copies. I'm not saying other automakers don't do that, it's just that Hyundai has quite a lengthy track record.

It's not a technological tour de force. Its engines have been old tech for the longest time. It is finally emerging, but again, it was the joint venture between the 3 companies that has allowed Hyundai to emerge. It didn't do it on its own, as you and that article you posted would like to believe, and it certainly isn't the engineering powerhouse amongst the 3 companies.

msl82

Once again, just because it Joint venture, it doesnt always mean everyone contribute equally. Some might want to do joint venture in order to learn or share technology.


1) Among GEMA, Hyundai does more engine manufactoring, design, and assembly than Mitsu and Chrysler.

Hyundai is actually the company that designed/developed the basic blocks of the Theta engine (aka world engine); Mitsu and Chrysler has modified them somewhat, and they are paying royalties for the rights of the engine. And Hyundai makes about 60% of GEMA engines.

"The initial design of the engine block was handled by Hyundai. It features siamesed bores, meaning that there is no coolant flow between cylinders. The aluminum block has cast iron cylinder liners, and different liners can be fitted to alter the engine's bore.

hence, Mitsubishi and crysler want to share Hyundai 4 cylinder engine technology


2) Also, its obvious now Hyundai four-cylinder engine is one of the worlds best.

Link of proof and fact

msl82

I can say that there were equal oppurtunity for Mitsu and Chrysler to allow to emerge in this joint venture. But, Hyundai were able to edge forward due to their own hard work.

LOL, So your saying that Mitsu and Chrysler helped Hyundai to surpass them in the techonology? Why would Mitsu and Chrysler help the competitor (Hyundai) to be able to build better four cylinder engines? Its kind of like China, U.S. and Russia working together, but U.S. and Russia helping China to be strongest??

phile

You're...not...making...any...sense.

msl82

Just like your avatar??

phile

That is the very same article you posted in the opening of this thread...OMG

msl82

Just like your avatar?

AznX TL

most of these facts are that you state are wrong, hyundai does not own the GEMA engine.

no where in any of your sources does it say that they produce 60% of the GEMA engines or that hyundai developed most of the GEMA engine. the THETA is a version of the GEMA engine just like the 4B11T is a version of the GEMA engine.

Hyundai did develop the Initial block, but then the 3 companies went to refine the rest of the block. thus Hyundai has the Theta, mitsu has the 4B1x, and chrysler is just calling it the world engine.

Mitsubishi and chrysler do not want to share the hyundai 4 cylinder engine because it was built under GEMA, hyundai didnt build the block under Hyundai's name, they didn't research and develop the block for hyundai, they did it under GEMA.

Hyundai hasnt just stepped into the game with this new engine, they we're part of the DSM crew back in the early 90's. Mitsu,Chrysler,Hyundai have been working together for ages.

AznX TL

like i said earlier, they've been working together for ages. there are some older hyundai's using the DSM 4G63 block that DSM developed. although they were a tiny part of DSM they still were a part of it.

AznX TL

http://www.gemaengine.com/index.htm

joerockt

Seriously, what's with the fucking chip on your shoulder?

News flash: These opinions were formed because for years Hyundai made the shitty Excel and was the butt of jokes everywhere. These opinions don't just change overnight. Its still going to take years of making quality products (if they can) to turn that image around.

I think they're off to a great start with the coupe...

AznX TL

new coupe is great, so is the GEMA engine.
but you cant claim that the GEMA engine was developed by hyundai for themselves then technically resold the design to other companies and now are paying royalties to hyundai.

because that is a big crock pot full of shit.

msl82

Watch your foul mouth son,

33 years old cussing like an elementary kid....

Your news flash isnt so news to me....

joerockt

You didn't answer the question.

rp_guy

just because you found a news article on an auto news BLOG you use it as conjecture? please.. no one is discrediting hyundai, only discrediting you.

Mokos23

hmm interesting

phile

Thank you!