Legend2TL

http://www.roadandtrack.com/special_...on-vs.-reality

http://www.roadandtrack.com/special_...hybrid-reality

http://www.roadandtrack.com/special_...rid-perception


Great test comparison from Road and Track on comparing real world mileage in 7 different driving test routes for Prius, VW Diesel, and Ford Fiesta.

Presents alot of real-world driving and the results. Kind surprised the Prius won all 7 routes and the MPG margin was huge in many, I was kinda expecting the VW Diesel to win the highway route. Anyway, good reading.

Legend2TL

forgot the video from Dennis Simanaitis, great technical writer/editor from R&T

http://www.roadandtrack.com/special_...on-vs.-reality

Legend2TL

Final results

[IMG]file:///C:/Users/LASKOW%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/Users/LASKOW%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.png[/IMG]

dallison

impressive, the car still has no soul.

majin ssj eric

Whatever, the Prius gets worse fuel economy than an M3 flat out... :wink:

Costco

Heh, I was just about to reference that. Specifically though, it would a Prius going flat out, and an M3 keeping pace.

F23A4

That would be an interesting spin on this type of comparison test. ^^

v6cord2k5

iTrader: (1)

I'll take a TDI over a Prius any day.

charliemike

I was surprised when I first read this ... It flies in the face of what I thought I understood about the hybrid value proposition.

That said, I won't own one. I'll stick with gas or diesel.

Since a lot of my driving is highway with cruise control on and A/C off I still see the diesel as an equal value.

One of the things I think would help the VW is if the Golf's Cd was better. I think that might be part of what's going on here. The Prius is .25 and the Golf is .32 ... Plus I think the Prius comes with the very-low rolling resistance tires that the Golf does not.

If there were a way to get the Golf down to .25 and use the same tires at the Prius, I'd like to see a comparison again between the two.

Moog-Type-S

Prius = 98 bhp / 105 lb/ft tq.

Golf TDI = 140 bhp / 236 lb/ft tq


Supply the Prius with Golf TDI kind of power....then let's compare apples to apples.


Meanwhile you can't beat the diesel for power & great MPG performance.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

I don't really care about gas mileage.

Driving is my passion.

What am I going to do with Prius?

fsttyms1

Great if your into soulless driving. Ill take the VW. At least it has some power.


And where is the honda in these test

dom

Would have been interesting to see the Insight in these results.

Legend2TL

That's only the gas motor, the electric motor also contributes power/torque.

http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/specs.html

And you cannot add the torque/HP number since their peaks are not at the same RPM. None the less the HP number FWIR is ~130-140HP equivalent for the new Prius.

Moog-Type-S

...but the insight is a myth...it really does not exist.

mrmako

And the environmental savings by having the Prius are what? The batteries are what? Recyclable? No, there not.

I'll take a VW please.

Legend2TL

The NiMH batteries in the Prius are recyclable.

mrmako

To what degree? The Nickel does not break down, so there should be a percentage that does. If I'm off, please advise.

TL_Captain

some articles mention the batteries in hybrids do more damage to the environment than the gas saved. if true, there is no purpose to buy a hybrid.

Legend2TL

I'm no battery expert but from what I've read NiMH batteries can fully recovered the nickel and most of the other salts/paste. I do not know the economic costs of the various degrees of recycling.

PortlandRL

A Prius is an appliance, plain and simple. I rented one for a weekend once, mainly in celebration of Jeff Dunham being in town (and yes the car was *clicks tongue* blue) While it was fun to see how good I get my mileage and I averaged 44 mpg over the weekend, the car was dull as dishwater. No spirit whatsoever...it almost borders on pitying its own existence.

Give me a Jetta TDI wagon.

majin ssj eric

In all honesty I'd shoot myself before I would buy either of these cars. A soulless hybrid and a wheezy diesel are not my idea of "fun driving". Besides, I average 19 mpg in my G so I could give a crap about fuel economy...

teranfon

I like hybrids. The technology fascinates me. And I think as the technology evolves throughout the years, along with the streamlining of the manufacturing processes involved, hybrids will eventually be used in more sporting applications.

I'd love to one day build a mid-sixties muscle or pony car using hybrid technology.



Terry

charliemike

Moose Muscles

Here's where I chime in, this was my senior project for my undergrad. So I guess I have around 3 months of research for this. Boils down to this, Nickel can be salvaged and the rest can be "discarded" using "proper techniques"

Now since my study was on the actual Prius technology and not on Federal policies coming to recycling batteries that is as far as I looked into the "recycling" of NiMH batteries.

I can tell you that if the ventilation system is not functioning properly it will cause a build up of hydrogen gas (container + high pressure + H gas = small H bomb) with no way to release.

I car about gas mileage to a point where I don't own an Escalade or Hummer. However 22-30 MPG is perfectly fine for me, I'm not looking to break any cross county records or run any other tree hugger marathons.

Good luck with the comparisons, apples to oranges when it comes to repair cost's too.

PortlandRL

1975 called...they want their impressions of a Detroit Diesel Oldsmobile back.

Drive a modern diesel...they are NOTHING like those of yore.

fsttyms1

My buddy runs 12's with his crew cab 6" lifted with mud tires Duramax chevy truck. He also gets 24mpg hwy with it.

majin ssj eric

I'm referring to the TDI diesel in this particular VW which, after the first 15 mph IS wheezy. I'd also point out that all diesels run out of breath at relatively low rpm and generally have low hp numbers (with admittedly impressive torque numbers). Its just not the type of power band I want in my car regardless of how fast it ultimately is....

Moose Muscles

i would give the new tdi golf a chance...i've heard crazy reports of the numbers of a reflashed ecu for one...

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

That article is mainly pure MPG. It does not factor in the mining of the battery which is a pretty messy process, then they transport via cargo ship from Canada to Europe for refining, then to China for processing, then finally to Japan where it is installed in the car.

Factor all of that in and the "carbon footprint" left behind by a Prius is much larger then its heavily praised MPG...

My wife's previous Audi A4 2.0T would get about 35mpg highway and 28-30 city.... more then enough and still a very fun car to drive. Plus, no nickle batteries. Even her current A6 gets 28-32mpg depending on the driving conditions. So in the end... is the Prius really that much better?