Hybrid Cars' Fantasy Mileage Ratings Drive Into the Sunset
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Hybrid Cars' Fantasy Mileage Ratings Drive Into the Sunset
http://www.wired.com/cars/futuretran.../05/hybrid_mpg
Hybrid Cars' Fantasy Mileage Ratings Drive Into the Sunset
Hybrid car economics will face a new road test this month with the arrival of fresh models sporting revised mileage ratings from the Environmental Protection Agency.
This year, new test standards have forced manufacturers to lower advertised efficiency claims on most models compared to previous years, and car lots are bracing for a tougher environment for hybrid sales.
It will "make for an interesting summer," said Phil Reed, the fuel economy guide editor at auto website Edmunds.com. The estimations are based on data from Edmunds.com that assumes 15,000 miles driven per year and gasoline at an average price of $2.70.
Revised EPA Miles Per Gallon Estimates
![](https://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1563/hybridmpgfull7b1779ld2.jpg)
Hybrids can cost from $1,500 to $4,500 more than their gas-only equivalents. The new mileage estimates mean it will take longer to recoup that extra cost in money saved on gas. Experts say the shift could dampen demand, although some hybrids will look better on paper than others.
According to a formula devised by Edmunds, it would take nearly 10 years to recoup the extra costs after buying a 2007 Mercury Mariner Hybrid, up from 6.6 according to the old mileage ratings. For the 2007 Honda Accord and Honda Civic hybrids it takes 14.5 and 6.5 years, respectively.
The 2007 Toyota Prius remains a good bargain when compared to a similarly equipped 2007 Toyota Camry -- it takes just 1.2 years to break even.
The latest sales figures on hybrids remain strong. Toyota sold 90 percent more gas-electric vehicles during the first two months of 2007 compared to the previous year. And in March 2007, hybrid sales nearly doubled over the previous March. But come summer, attitudes might change. Some consumers seem to have soured a bit on hybrids.
Michael Spath of Jacksonville, Florida, had considered the Prius when he purchased his last car, but he didn't trust the EPA ratings and decided on the less expensive Toyota Corolla. "It gets the same mileage as the Prius for a heck of a lot less money," Spath said in an e-mail.
The adjusted fuel-economy ratings make the economics clear. "I would not purchase a hybrid because they are in fact not cost-effective. I really wish they were because I probably would have bought one," he said.
As previously reported by Wired News, many hybrid owners have experienced fuel economy far below the EPA estimates.
Now, after more than 20 years of producing mileage estimates that were far above what most drivers experienced, the EPA has added new testing procedures that more closely match what the average driver will experience.
The EPA created an online calculator based on the revised testing methodology that generates more realistic expectations for today's vehicles.
The two top-selling hybrid vehicles, the Prius and Honda's Civic Hybrid, will lose 12 and 11 miles per gallon respectively from their city driving estimates. Other vehicles are downgraded between 2 and 4 mpg (see chart).
Overall, vehicle city mileage estimates dropped by about 12 percent, and some vehicles are expected to be rated 30 percent lower, according to EPA documents.
The new EPA tests factor in real-world conditions such as speeding, varying weather and lead-footed driving. Vehicles like hybrids with smaller engines pay a higher penalty during the acceleration test, as well as the tests that simulate going up a hill and maintaining highway speeds.
The fuel-economy estimates that appear on 2008 vehicles won't be based on actual test data, but will be an approximation (as used in EPA's calculator), according to EPA spokesman John Millett. This year, auto manufacturers can choose whether to run the additional tests, but starting with the 2010 model year, the EPA will require the tests on all new cars, he said.
Hybrid vehicle performance was previously overestimated partly because the tests included vehicles' idling for long periods, causing many hybrids to shut down their engines to conserve fuel. The old testing methodology registered "a higher fuel economy for hybrid vehicles than is achieved under typical driving conditions," according to EPA documents.
The new ratings will, on a positive note, end debate about hybrids not performing as advertised, said Dave Alexander, a senior analyst at ABI Research. Conscientious drivers (who brake and start slowly and keep the needle below 60 mph) could even surpass the EPA ratings, he said. "There is potential in the long run for better customer satisfaction."
Hybrid car economics will face a new road test this month with the arrival of fresh models sporting revised mileage ratings from the Environmental Protection Agency.
This year, new test standards have forced manufacturers to lower advertised efficiency claims on most models compared to previous years, and car lots are bracing for a tougher environment for hybrid sales.
It will "make for an interesting summer," said Phil Reed, the fuel economy guide editor at auto website Edmunds.com. The estimations are based on data from Edmunds.com that assumes 15,000 miles driven per year and gasoline at an average price of $2.70.
Revised EPA Miles Per Gallon Estimates
![](https://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1563/hybridmpgfull7b1779ld2.jpg)
Hybrids can cost from $1,500 to $4,500 more than their gas-only equivalents. The new mileage estimates mean it will take longer to recoup that extra cost in money saved on gas. Experts say the shift could dampen demand, although some hybrids will look better on paper than others.
According to a formula devised by Edmunds, it would take nearly 10 years to recoup the extra costs after buying a 2007 Mercury Mariner Hybrid, up from 6.6 according to the old mileage ratings. For the 2007 Honda Accord and Honda Civic hybrids it takes 14.5 and 6.5 years, respectively.
The 2007 Toyota Prius remains a good bargain when compared to a similarly equipped 2007 Toyota Camry -- it takes just 1.2 years to break even.
The latest sales figures on hybrids remain strong. Toyota sold 90 percent more gas-electric vehicles during the first two months of 2007 compared to the previous year. And in March 2007, hybrid sales nearly doubled over the previous March. But come summer, attitudes might change. Some consumers seem to have soured a bit on hybrids.
Michael Spath of Jacksonville, Florida, had considered the Prius when he purchased his last car, but he didn't trust the EPA ratings and decided on the less expensive Toyota Corolla. "It gets the same mileage as the Prius for a heck of a lot less money," Spath said in an e-mail.
The adjusted fuel-economy ratings make the economics clear. "I would not purchase a hybrid because they are in fact not cost-effective. I really wish they were because I probably would have bought one," he said.
As previously reported by Wired News, many hybrid owners have experienced fuel economy far below the EPA estimates.
Now, after more than 20 years of producing mileage estimates that were far above what most drivers experienced, the EPA has added new testing procedures that more closely match what the average driver will experience.
The EPA created an online calculator based on the revised testing methodology that generates more realistic expectations for today's vehicles.
The two top-selling hybrid vehicles, the Prius and Honda's Civic Hybrid, will lose 12 and 11 miles per gallon respectively from their city driving estimates. Other vehicles are downgraded between 2 and 4 mpg (see chart).
Overall, vehicle city mileage estimates dropped by about 12 percent, and some vehicles are expected to be rated 30 percent lower, according to EPA documents.
The new EPA tests factor in real-world conditions such as speeding, varying weather and lead-footed driving. Vehicles like hybrids with smaller engines pay a higher penalty during the acceleration test, as well as the tests that simulate going up a hill and maintaining highway speeds.
The fuel-economy estimates that appear on 2008 vehicles won't be based on actual test data, but will be an approximation (as used in EPA's calculator), according to EPA spokesman John Millett. This year, auto manufacturers can choose whether to run the additional tests, but starting with the 2010 model year, the EPA will require the tests on all new cars, he said.
Hybrid vehicle performance was previously overestimated partly because the tests included vehicles' idling for long periods, causing many hybrids to shut down their engines to conserve fuel. The old testing methodology registered "a higher fuel economy for hybrid vehicles than is achieved under typical driving conditions," according to EPA documents.
The new ratings will, on a positive note, end debate about hybrids not performing as advertised, said Dave Alexander, a senior analyst at ABI Research. Conscientious drivers (who brake and start slowly and keep the needle below 60 mph) could even surpass the EPA ratings, he said. "There is potential in the long run for better customer satisfaction."
Last edited by Sly Raskal; 05-14-2007 at 04:51 PM.
#2
Race Director
If you were stupid enough to base your hybrid pay back time on some window sticker numbers then you deserve to be swindled.
I wonder how the EPA gets MY08 numbers when the makers themselves don't know the numbers yet.
I wonder how the EPA gets MY08 numbers when the makers themselves don't know the numbers yet.
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#3
Fahrvergnügen'd
Just to give some perspective ... This is my buddy's 1992 Honda Civic VX that he used to drive as a courier. Put 497,680 miles on it with the original tranny, engine, and put 350k miles on the original clutch. The EPA rated the car at 48 city/55 hwy and he routinely got between 55-60 highway. His personal best was 70mpg (700 miles/10 gals) in COMBINED driving on his daily route (though most highway).
Here's the window sticker:
![](http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5320/1992civicvxnh4.jpg)
Where's the value in a hybrid again?
Here's the window sticker:
![](http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5320/1992civicvxnh4.jpg)
Where's the value in a hybrid again?
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#4
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^^^ ![Werd](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/werd.gif)
I still think that hybrids are overrated. I'd much rather buy a used civic or comparable vehicle that gets good mileage. There are so many used cars out there that can get good mileage yet just sit there and go unsold because of the "hybrid' bandwagon.
![Werd](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/werd.gif)
I still think that hybrids are overrated. I'd much rather buy a used civic or comparable vehicle that gets good mileage. There are so many used cars out there that can get good mileage yet just sit there and go unsold because of the "hybrid' bandwagon.
#6
F1 cart racer
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#8
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People don't buy hybrids to save money, they do it to feel holier than thou.
Hybrids are an environmental disaster. Google "Sudbury nickel mine". Also, once mined, the nickel travels over 10,000 miles before it finally ends up in the car. When you consider *all* of the costs, the carbon footprint of a Prius is greater than that of a H3.
Hybrid = technological masturbation for the underinformed liberal.
And don't get me started on ethanol!
Hybrids are an environmental disaster. Google "Sudbury nickel mine". Also, once mined, the nickel travels over 10,000 miles before it finally ends up in the car. When you consider *all* of the costs, the carbon footprint of a Prius is greater than that of a H3.
Hybrid = technological masturbation for the underinformed liberal.
And don't get me started on ethanol!
#9
Senior Moderator
"The estimations are based on data from Edmunds.com that assumes 15,000 miles driven per year and gasoline at an average price of $2.70."
Lol....we've already surpassed $2.70/gallon, at least in most places I think.
Lol....we've already surpassed $2.70/gallon, at least in most places I think.
#11
The sizzle in the Steak
Hybrid FTL
Fuel Cell FTW
Fuel Cell FTW
#14
Drinking Beer In
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Quit subsidizing and let gas go to its true price - $5/gal.
Start selling smaller, sporty cars with direct injection diesels.
Upgrade infrastructure so we don't sit in traffic wasting fuel.
Internal combustion is still the most mature and efficient technology out there.
Start selling smaller, sporty cars with direct injection diesels.
Upgrade infrastructure so we don't sit in traffic wasting fuel.
Internal combustion is still the most mature and efficient technology out there.
#15
I feel the need...
Rare Earths Leave Toxic Trail to Toyota Prius, Vestas Turbines
Rare earth metals are key to global efforts to switch to cleaner energy -- from batteries in hybrid cars to magnets in wind turbines. Mining and processing the metals causes environmental damage that China, the biggest producer, is no longer willing to bear.
China’s rare earth industry each year produces more than five times the amount of waste gas, including deadly fluorine and sulfur dioxide, than the total flared annually by all miners and oil refiners in the U.S. Alongside that 13 billion cubic meters of gas is 25 million tons of wastewater laced with cancer-causing heavy metals such as cadmium, Xu Xu, chairman of the China Chamber of Commerce of Metals, Minerals & Chemicals Importers & Exporters, said at a Beijing conference on Dec. 28.
“China supplied the world with very cheap and good-quality rare earths for more than a decade at the cost of depleting its resources and damaging its environment,” Wang Caifeng, who heads the government-affiliated China Association for Rare Earths, said at the conference. “The world should thank China.”
With China now shutting down unregulated rare earth mines and slashing exports, users from Toyota Motor Corp. to Vestas Wind Systems A/S, the world’s biggest maker of wind turbines, are concerned that supplies may be constrained.....
China’s rare earth industry each year produces more than five times the amount of waste gas, including deadly fluorine and sulfur dioxide, than the total flared annually by all miners and oil refiners in the U.S. Alongside that 13 billion cubic meters of gas is 25 million tons of wastewater laced with cancer-causing heavy metals such as cadmium, Xu Xu, chairman of the China Chamber of Commerce of Metals, Minerals & Chemicals Importers & Exporters, said at a Beijing conference on Dec. 28.
“China supplied the world with very cheap and good-quality rare earths for more than a decade at the cost of depleting its resources and damaging its environment,” Wang Caifeng, who heads the government-affiliated China Association for Rare Earths, said at the conference. “The world should thank China.”
With China now shutting down unregulated rare earth mines and slashing exports, users from Toyota Motor Corp. to Vestas Wind Systems A/S, the world’s biggest maker of wind turbines, are concerned that supplies may be constrained.....
#16
I feel the need...
U.S. Fuel-Economy Target of 62 Mpg by 2025 `Ambitious,' GM's Akerson Says
General Motors Co. Chief Executive Officer Dan Akerson said the government’s long-range goal of reaching a fuel-efficiency average of 62 miles per gallon by 2025 is “pretty ambitious.”
Federal regulators said an annual improvement of 6 percent a year may be possible in the 2017-to-2025 time period in a report last year.
“We have a stated goal of not fighting change but embracing it, and achieving it as best we can,” Akerson told reporters today after meeting with U.S. lawmakers in Washington. “The laws of physics are not going to be suspended.”
GM is rebuilding trust with U.S. car buyers through better- built cars like the Chevrolet Cruze and the plug-in electric Chevy Volt, Akerson said last month. The company is looking to ramp up Volt sales to 45,000 next year as consumers take advantage of a $7,500 federal tax credit.....
Federal regulators said an annual improvement of 6 percent a year may be possible in the 2017-to-2025 time period in a report last year.
“We have a stated goal of not fighting change but embracing it, and achieving it as best we can,” Akerson told reporters today after meeting with U.S. lawmakers in Washington. “The laws of physics are not going to be suspended.”
GM is rebuilding trust with U.S. car buyers through better- built cars like the Chevrolet Cruze and the plug-in electric Chevy Volt, Akerson said last month. The company is looking to ramp up Volt sales to 45,000 next year as consumers take advantage of a $7,500 federal tax credit.....
#17
Evil Mazda Driver
Been saying it for years, much to the ire of pious Prius owners. I
the Fit for this reason....little Honda 4-cylinder getting 35-45 mpg. Some owners have reported teasing 50 mpg on the highway.
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#18
Race Director
Federal regulators said an annual improvement of 6 percent a year may be possible in the 2017-to-2025 time period in a report last year.
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
#19
Senior Moderator
This is more car talk related...? Anil...feel free to move it back to Automotive News if you disagree but I'll move this to Car Talk for now.
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#20
Punk Rocker
Why not just make it 200 mpg by 2015? Or 300 mpg. Since we're just making up arbitrary numbers that have absolutely no grounding in actual fact these days, why not?
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
#22
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
People don't buy hybrids to save money, they do it to feel holier than thou.
Hybrids are an environmental disaster. Google "Sudbury nickel mine". Also, once mined, the nickel travels over 10,000 miles before it finally ends up in the car. When you consider *all* of the costs, the carbon footprint of a Prius is greater than that of a H3.
Hybrid = technological masturbation for the underinformed liberal.
And don't get me started on ethanol!
Hybrids are an environmental disaster. Google "Sudbury nickel mine". Also, once mined, the nickel travels over 10,000 miles before it finally ends up in the car. When you consider *all* of the costs, the carbon footprint of a Prius is greater than that of a H3.
Hybrid = technological masturbation for the underinformed liberal.
And don't get me started on ethanol!
![Gold Cup](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/goldcup.gif)
But I suppose if you eat foie grass, go to school at Cal Berkley, and have an Eco-Friendly blog, then go ahead and feel good about yourself and buy a Prius.
![ugh](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ugh.gif)
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