Dam its Johnny

iTrader: (1)

First let me apologize if this is the wrong forum for this question.


Now I'm looking at a 07 tsx/ nav at a acura dealership the car is certified and such. Anyways I wanna know how I can begin to negotiate with the online sales manager. When I requested the car price the gave me the regular price and the "special internet" price . Anyways my question is how would i go upon negotiate with them through email?

Any words of advice I would really appreaciate as I might have my e46 sold by this weekend.

knight rider

iTrader: (1)

First of all let me say that you are doing the right thing by buying a car on the internet. You eliminate the hussle of the dealership. Now to answer your question here is what I suggest.

1. do your research and find out the very best price of the vehicle you want (trim level and all)

2. send an email to 3-4 other internet salespeople from other lots with your bid and make sure you cc them all to let them all see they are competing for your business.

3. stay on top of the return emails and when appropriate let one salesperson know that "dealership B" has undercut their asking price.

Good luck with your car purchase!

Scrib

^^^^^^

Pretty much.

However, in this economy I'd just do some research and tell the dealer that you're willing to come in and pick up the car for $XXX. And if they say sorry, its $YYY then move on and find another of the many 2007 TSXs that are out there. The market is only going to get worse.

Dealers are not selling cars. Throw out a reasonable number and you'll get a bite. In better times, the bid process is certainly a good tactic, but in the current environment... The consumer rules.

theslik1

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/msrp-rip/

Scrib

lol

JediMindTricks

that's pretty much what i did.

Derk's K24

Since I am a Internet Manager my advice would be to pull up all comparable TSX's within a 100 mile radius and find the one with the lowest price. If the lowest price is the dealer you are looking at then you dont have a leg to stand on. Most likely they arent though so at this point email the dealer with your offer that is the same as the lowest priced one you found and go from there. We dont like when customers state they want a ridiculous price but have no reason to back it up. Since you'd be actually making a offer based on the actual market they should be able to work with you. Also ask for more pictures if they dont have more than 20-25 and have them be very clear on the condition of the car as far as any defects or anything like that.

Dam its Johnny

iTrader: (1)

Ok cool guys thanks for all the advice. Just one more question. When comparing only dealers to show them there price is to high does the car have to be the same color. As I'm looking for a CGP tsx but I have found almost every other color is cheaper.

Derk's K24

They dont have to be the same color but some colors that are special should be take into consideration. For instance with Mazda the Pearl White that comes on Cx-7's is like an additional $500.

wackura

So happens I have an '07 CGP manual I wish to part with, too bad you're nowhere near me.

Ignore color and don't only compare against dealers. If you see a private party seller selling for cheap tell the sales guy "I'd love to buy a CPO from a dealer but in this tough economy private party is looking attractive. What can you do for me?"

Derk's K24 says he hates people who low ball him but that shouldn't be your concern. Email several Acura dealers in the area asking for a TSX for $3000 less than what you expect to pay. Claim your budget is tight but you don't want to settle on some Civic if you don't have to, or claim someone is selling one on Craig's List for that amount. They will probably say they can't do it, but from there you have the option of sweating them out, call them back a few hours later to see if they have changed their mind, or increase your offer a little bit and repeat.

Also incase you don't know, once you go to see the "finance guy" DON'T ACCEPT ANY EXTRAS. No warranties, no leather gaurd, no clear bra, no Acrua premium gold card bullshit. Say I KNOW I MUST BE AN IDIOT FOR REFUSING SUCH A SPECTACULAR OFFER BUT I MUST REFUSE SO SRY! All you should have payed for when you walk out of the room is the car and the sales tax.

Derk's K24

^ I said I hate people who low ball with no reasoning. That's just like me asking a particular price for a car and then not giving you a reason why I'm asking for that amount. If I have the lowest price available on a car what's the point of goin lower if you cant get it lower anywhere else. Some customers look a gift horse in the mouth just because they feel the urge to negotiate.

Also I dont know why you'd refuse a warranty on a used car. My extended warranty has saved me a lot of money as well as others I know. No matter what kind of car you buy they are all metal with metal moving parts and eventually will good bad at some point in time. Case in point is if Acura is the almighty reputable brand why has my cousin gone through 3 trannies. That may not have happened to everybody but unless you're Miss Cleo you cant predict the future and may end up costing yourself a lot of money. You're one of those people that probably thinks Gap insurance is a scam too.

wackura

The reason is irrelevant. If you asked me why I was offering $15k for a $20k car I'd simply respond that that's all I can afford and that dreams can come true, and I might me telling the truth, you don't know. If you ask and they can't even BS an answer I suppose that gives you a valuable piece of information about who you're dealing with.

By getting the warranty you're essentialy paying to fix a car that hasn't broke and is unlikely to break. Acura sells warranties at a rate that eclispses the total warranty payouts. Acura wouldn't offer a warranty if it cost the corperation more money that it earned. The customer loses that bet by default.

If I remember correctly the warranty costs something like $800. They get away with slipping this large number on customers by rolling it into the loan and describing it as "a cup of coffee every month." Most warranty service probably doesn't even approach $800. My salesmen friends in other businesses tell me that warranties are extremely lucrative which is another way of saying an extremely bad purchase.

Derk's K24

Like I said, you're not Miss Cleo. My warranty covered a new throttle body and a leaking crank seal which came to a total of about $1500 worth or parts and labor which exceeds what the warranty cost me. Also like I said this may or may not happen to everybody but you never know and then you'll be kicking yourself when you didnt purchase it if you end up in the same position I was.


Also if you are offering $15K for a $20K car you should be looking for a $15K car and not hope that someone has a $5K markup which in this day and age rarely happens due to the amount of customer knowledge on trade in and retail prices of vehicles. This isn't the 80's or early 90's when none of the information was available to the public.

wackura

You're appealing to ignorance (which of course is your job) by using the Miss Cleo rhetoric. Acura/Honda is not a charity, and the money they make from warranties exceeds the repair payouts, thus consumers lose in general and any given consumer is statistically unlikely to see a return on the money spent on the warranty.

What I'm reading is that it can't hurt to try. You say I shouldn't but what do I have to lose? Your respect?

Derk's K24

My job has nothing to do with customers buying warranties. At my job I dont get paid when they sell a warranty, I get paid when I sell a car. I dont care what the dealership makes as a whole, I just care what they pay me on. Since I'm on a forum and this guy is no where near me or buying from my dealership his purchase has nothing to do with my paycheck. The dealership he buys from does not put money in my pocket. I'm just speaking from experience and try to look out for people so they dont make mistakes because I see it everyday. A lot of people I know have benefited from buying warranties and all of em have Honda's and Acura's. Same as with gap insurance....

Derk's K24

True, but that's just not my style. I'm not the type of person to walk into Best Buy and offer $500 on a $2,000 tv. If you do that with cars I would hope that you would do that in every other industry of retail as well otherwise you would be a hypocrite.

Dam its Johnny

iTrader: (1)

Ok guys the car I was looking at is a 2007 CPO CGP Tsx auto/nav 12k it's priced at 25,765. The thing is there a lot of dealers that have the combo with more miles and some less for around the same price.
Anyone wanna say what a fair price would be?
KBB says thats the value of the car
Edmunds TMV cost says 23k
But i know dealers are desperate as I've recived calls from sales people now from different dealers trying to sell me TL or tsx in other colors.
Thanks guys everything your saying is helping me get ready. I'm going to email a few dealers.

Derk's K24

$23K I think would be a fair offer because not even my dealership sells cars for KBB retail. Our Internet price is usually $2-3K below KBB which is inflated whether you are buying, selling, or trading. However this all depends on what they traded it for. Sometimes we have to put more money on a car to get a deal done but then you're stuck selling it for higher than what you want in order to make a reasonable profit. For instance we just traded a dogged out EVO 8 last week for $14K when in reality it was only worth $12K but in order to get the deal to go through that's what we had to do. Now we have to take a bath at the auction cuz we would've had to retail it for higher than what the market shows.

wackura

That's absurd. Best Buy doesn't dicker, car dealerships do. Is it your style to dispense with negotiation tactics?

wackura

$23k at the most.

wackura

That's anecdotal evidence and selective observation. On average you will lose more than you gain. What part of for-profit are you not getting?

Derk's K24

Everyone dickers sir. That just goes to show you were brainwashed in the early term of your retail adventures. How do you think they can sell something for $500 one day and then it goes on "sale" for $350 the next.

Derk's K24

Sorry I dont leave my own experiences up to the average. Profit is the point of selling something right? No one is in business to do favors.

Derk's K24

It's my style to help people. Sorry if you've been f'ed over by scamming sales people but I've found it easy to be truthful and honest and still make a good living. Otherwise what would be the point of me giving my input in this thread? Cuz like I said his purchase means no $$$ for me.

wackura

You're not puting two and two together. Warranties are for profit. If you bought 100 cars with 100 warranties you would lose out in the end. So why would you even buy one warranty of one car? You're "it makes me feel safe" mentality only screws you in the long run. Honestly when you tell me horror stories about transmissions I wonder what you're doing to your car because I've been driving quite a while without any such major issues.

wackura

You might be a very honest sales guy who doesn't take too much even from a gullible customer, but it's wrong to advise customers to in any way assume a salesmen is honest or that they should let their gaurd down. I see excluding low-balling as a negotation tactic as a form of letting you gaurd down.

Derk's K24

Check on the 2nd gen TL forum and ask around and you'll see what I'm talking about. I keep my cars til 100K miles and more and most warranties dont go that high so I am putting two and two together. The higher the mileage gets on a car more things are prone to break. Like I said we arent talking about miracles here, these are metal moving parts that wont last forever. You may lose, you may win. Both of us obviously are speaking from experience and with different experiences come different opinions. I've had things break on my car and the warranty saved my ass. You obviously have had nothing go wrong with your car so you dont feel a warranty is necessary. That doesnt give you the right to go around saying something like that isnt worth it just because it hasnt happened to you.

Derk's K24

The reason I dont recommend low balling is because some people like myself see it as you're saying the product isn't worth what it is. So potentially you could screw yourself out of a great deal you could've gotten because you offended the person. For instance if you had a Movado valued at $1200 and I offered you $300 you would think I'm stupid and probably get frustrated to the point that you dont want to deal with that person even if it was just a shot. That's how I would react at least as would most.

wackura

Speak from experiance only when you have absolutely no other data to go on. Here's an article advising against them by a more authoritative person http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0..._warranty.html

But as a matter of common sense when the bean counters and Honda/Acura decided they should offer warranties they determined that they would win and we would lose. The fact that they offer a warranty at all implies that it's bad because they're not the type to shoot themselves in the foot.

wackura

True in principle, particularily with private sellers, but I wouldn't worry too much about offending a car salesmen. That's just good prudence. They probably don't care about you, you probably shouldn't care too much about them.

Derk's K24

LOL! The article was pretty hilarious. Just about everything talked about has to do with electronics. The first example was a lady who bought a phone for $9.95 and was offered a warranty that cost $5.95.


1. They Usually Cost More Than They're Worth- That's arguable but if you read further into what they are saying we are a disposable culture that throws things away quickly. So of course if you only plan on keeping a car for a couple years a extended warranty is stupid idea.

2. Warranty Work May Be Unreliable- We're talking about a Acura warranty here, where work will be done at a Acura dealer that has to be held accountable. So this is a moot point.

3. The Warranty May Not Cover What You Think It Does- You have to read and use common sense.

4. Warranty Underwriter May Go Out Of Business- I dont see Acura goin out of business any time soon. Do you?

5. The Extended Warranty May Overlap Manufacturer's Warranty- If you plan on keeping the car for a long time purchase the extended warranty right before the other is up. Common sense once again.

wackura

I looked briefly but couldn't find stats on how often warranties are made good on, and how much money is spent on them by consumers versus how much is collected by consumers. I suspect that the amount collected comes nowhere close to the amount that's payed into it. Casinos make a lot of money on the same premise; the amount people win is less than the amount people lose. Getting the warranty is no different that blowing money at a casino. You might win but you probably won't.

Derk's K24

I never denied that but like I said I advise from my own experience and it's your personal decision there. There are a lot of subjective debates out there but you came off telling the guy DONT ACCEPT ANY EXTRAS like you knew whether or not he's going to fall into that small percentage of people that would have to use it.


Once again we could go back and forth on whether or not Gap Insurance is a scam or not but if you talk to people that have had to use it they'll tell you they're gonna get it again and will probably recommend it.

wackura

I would tell you not to go to a casino despite not knowing wether you would have been the lucky guy to hit the jackpot.

I also support the "say no to everything" approach because you go to a car dealer to get a car. Everything the financier offers could be acquired elsewhere and possibly for much cheaper. The dealer acquired the car from auction and then had it detailed 'round back. I just want them to give me the detailed car, I don't want the reach around.

They know that people are particularily vulnerable when they finally sit in the financiers office. At this point they know the customer is a slam dunk and they just go to work trying to push gold, silver premium service packages, leather coatings, extra insurance, etc. There's a reason the financier presents that stuff and not the car salesmen.

mitch14

wow, i must be really bored, i read the whole thread

TheMirror

Which is how the entire insurance industry works as well. Health, home, auto, renters, etc. All an extended warranty represents is an insurance policy against potentially expensive repairs in a higher-risk scenario....i.e. a car getting older with more miles.

Hey, I'm relatively young still and live in a safe area. That sure doesn't stop me from carrying health and homeowner's insurance. The likelihood of my getting really sick or my place getting ripped off is low, but the risk is not zero. As a matter of fact, I've had a major surgery that cost my healthcare provider WAY more than I've ever paid in insurance premiums.

Neither is the risk zero for a used Acura to have potentially expensive problems. Its unlikely, sure, but you can't lump warranties in with useless add-on crap like special sealant packages or marked up car alarms.

Now, would you send a customer into a Mercedes or BMW dealership to buy a used Benz or Bimmer with the same no-warranty advice? That would border on criminal.

Derk's K24

Right, so explain to me why you have a loan officer for real estate instead of the realtor. Because they are two seperate jobs! Car salesman sell you the car and does the paper work, the finance manager gets you financed and presents you with options that you may want. Their primary responsibility though is to get you financed which is where they actually make the bulk of their money but interest rates fluctuate so much not many people know what kind of rate they are supposed to get. A lot of people think they do based upon what they got 5 years ago or what their neighbor got but most people have no clue.

Derk's K24

Thank you!

Derk's K24

Assumptions that are stereotypical wont get you very far in life. Since I'm black you probably think I can dunk too...

How about talking to the person and actually feeling them out instead of goin in assuming everybody's out to get you. If the person is, fine go ahead with the asshole customer routine. If they arent you'll actually enjoy buying a car and will end up getting a great deal because you are being the customer that most salesman like, a cool one that respects us.

Bearcat94

I've done my last two (both TL's) over the internet. Saved, over the combined terms, ~$7,500 vs in-person, dealership quotes.

Best thing I can advise is make sure it is *absolutely* clear that you have no intention of going to the dealership until the deal is done. You can do the credit app and everything via e-mail.

Then, when you get to the dealer, if the terms are not *exactly* what was agreed to via e-mail, get up and walk out (monthly payment might vary by a few cents - literally - due to rounding on the final deal). If you can't do that, you might as well just walk into the showroom and make the best deal you can.