How did Lexus get so far ahead of Acura?
#1
How did Lexus get so far ahead of Acura?
It is my understanding that these two Japanese Luxury Brands started at around the same time. How did Lexus get so far ahead of Acura in terms of sales and overall strength of lineup? Prestige and overall success? There must have been some key points during the mid 90's or early 2000's that launched Lexus into that next tier. Was it the creation of the RX? Was it because Lexus always had a flagship giant to go against the 7 and S Class? Better management? What?
#2
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Toyota is a much larger car company than Honda.
Toyota seems to care more about 'prestige' and has experience making luxury cars (look up the Toyota Crown)
Honda has always been good at building cars for the masses.
So IMO, it's a matter of priorities. Honda has never had their heart in it.
Toyota seems to care more about 'prestige' and has experience making luxury cars (look up the Toyota Crown)
Honda has always been good at building cars for the masses.
So IMO, it's a matter of priorities. Honda has never had their heart in it.
#3
Burning Brakes
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Better direction. They know what market they are aiming for and what their brand represents and they stuck to it. Luxury with optional performance. Acura used to be Sporty luxury cars.
Then they lost their way. Started building cars with great tech but not as much tech as their competitors. And now its meh cars. Drove the TLX today and it just doesn't have that extra special piece. Doesn't have the most interesting tech. Its just a good car. Nothing to differentiate it really.
If they had Type S models and spent a little more time with marketing and doing a better job they would be great. And they skimp on power that should be provided. 290 for the new gen. Its ridiculous.
Then they lost their way. Started building cars with great tech but not as much tech as their competitors. And now its meh cars. Drove the TLX today and it just doesn't have that extra special piece. Doesn't have the most interesting tech. Its just a good car. Nothing to differentiate it really.
If they had Type S models and spent a little more time with marketing and doing a better job they would be great. And they skimp on power that should be provided. 290 for the new gen. Its ridiculous.
#5
Senior Moderator
And ultimately, Honda/Acura has shown the market what their target demographics are. They are content at being at that entry-level luxury segment...competing now with Buick, Lincoln...
Nothing wrong with that I suppose.
Nothing wrong with that I suppose.
#6
Will the TLX change this? If the TLX manage to do 60,000+ a year? That means the sedan segment is definitely back for Acura and a lineup of ILX/TLX/RLX is probably stronger than anything Buck or Lincoln can offer.
#7
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#8
Does anyone here like the new look of the Lincoln over the TLX? I think the new Lincoln grill is ugly as hell.
#10
I would pick the TLX over the Lincoln. I view the TLX as a superior car made by what I still think is a superior Brand. I also like the aftermarket following Acura have. Acura still delivers great value for the money,incredible reliability, and good comfort. The brand name isn't at it's strongest point right now, but that can change with the TLX(and I think it will). Acura is still more or less a household name in America.........and I believe in the brand's future.
#11
expensive performance car and a legitimate flagship? That's what make the perception right? Because BMW make the most money from it's entry level as well. But it also have the M3/M4 and 7 Series. Which rises perception?
#12
I just cant stand the new grill on the lincolns.
I think that grill is straight up obnoxious. It's like an eccentric BMW meets GTO.
And the wheels look worse than all the Acura wheels a lot of users really dislike.
Buicks grill is pretty big too but shaped better.
I think that grill is straight up obnoxious. It's like an eccentric BMW meets GTO.
And the wheels look worse than all the Acura wheels a lot of users really dislike.
Buicks grill is pretty big too but shaped better.
#13
Moderator
I don't think you're going to get a lot of argument here about the Lincoln. The fact that Acura is left being compared to Lincoln, on the other hand, is just plain sad.
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#14
Azine Jabroni
Leaving SUVs out of it, Acura sedans feel a step below Lexus, Audi, BMW, whereas the TLX somewhat ensures it is still better than Lincoln (who doesn't do anything well), Buick (who only does small small well like the Verano > ILX)
#15
#16
I appreciate the insightful comments from posters Acura competing with Buick and Lincoln, and I think I agree. That being said, if the TLX is any indication, Acura is handily beating Buick, Lincoln IMHO.
Leaving SUVs out of it, Acura sedans feel a step below Lexus, Audi, BMW, whereas the TLX somewhat ensures it is still better than Lincoln (who doesn't do anything well), Buick (who only does small small well like the Verano > ILX)
Leaving SUVs out of it, Acura sedans feel a step below Lexus, Audi, BMW, whereas the TLX somewhat ensures it is still better than Lincoln (who doesn't do anything well), Buick (who only does small small well like the Verano > ILX)
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d1sturb3d119 (09-02-2014)
#17
Azine Jabroni
#18
Azine Jabroni
#19
99 TL, 06 E350
Toyota has way bigger pockets. They spent countless billions on the F1 program and didn't even make a dent in their bank accounts.
As well Toyota seems to have more passion for cars than Honda.
As well Toyota seems to have more passion for cars than Honda.
#20
Team Owner
a Simplified Answer to your complicated question is:
Lexus is a brand that knew what it wanted and achieve since day 1:
differentiate itself from Toyota, so you feel the extra premium is justified over Toyota
Going after Germans in every category
Cheaper than Germans
target different types of customers within 1 brand (ES350, IS/GS, LS all have different customer bases) vs. Acura (1 type of customer, just different ages)
Acura: Mood Swings.
Lexus is a brand that knew what it wanted and achieve since day 1:
differentiate itself from Toyota, so you feel the extra premium is justified over Toyota
Going after Germans in every category
Cheaper than Germans
target different types of customers within 1 brand (ES350, IS/GS, LS all have different customer bases) vs. Acura (1 type of customer, just different ages)
Acura: Mood Swings.
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Sarlacc (09-02-2014)
#21
Ex-OEM King
I would pick the TLX over the Lincoln. I view the TLX as a superior car made by what I still think is a superior Brand. I also like the aftermarket following Acura have. Acura still delivers great value for the money,incredible reliability, and good comfort. The brand name isn't at it's strongest point right now, but that can change with the TLX(and I think it will). Acura is still more or less a household name in America.........and I believe in the brand's future.
That's because Acura lack an M3,RCF,LS,7 SERIES type right? It lacks a
expensive performance car and a legitimate flagship? That's what make the perception right? Because BMW make the most money from it's entry level as well. But it also have the M3/M4 and 7 Series. Which rises perception?
expensive performance car and a legitimate flagship? That's what make the perception right? Because BMW make the most money from it's entry level as well. But it also have the M3/M4 and 7 Series. Which rises perception?
Having a halo car and performance models would help but it's not a game changer. Most makes don't make that much money (if any) off of the high end performance models.
a Simplified Answer to your complicated question is:
Lexus is a brand that knew what it wanted and achieve since day 1:
differentiate itself from Toyota, so you feel the extra premium is justified over Toyota
Going after Germans in every category
Cheaper than Germans
target different types of customers within 1 brand (ES350, IS/GS, LS all have different customer bases) vs. Acura (1 type of customer, just different ages)
Acura: Mood Swings.
Lexus is a brand that knew what it wanted and achieve since day 1:
differentiate itself from Toyota, so you feel the extra premium is justified over Toyota
Going after Germans in every category
Cheaper than Germans
target different types of customers within 1 brand (ES350, IS/GS, LS all have different customer bases) vs. Acura (1 type of customer, just different ages)
Acura: Mood Swings.
#22
#23
#24
Azine Jabroni
#25
Along with most of what has already been said, they've been at it for over two decades... constantly pushing the envelope, challenging the Germans. Acura was competitive until sometime in the 2000's where it because woefully apparent to many that they were getting a fancy Honda. That doesn't sit well for the average buyer in the $40k and up segment.
The absolute last thing you would want someone to think is "is that the new Civic/Accord?" That's why Lexus killed off the HS250, so many think it's a Corolla. The ES somehow fits in that grey area where the TL manages to be successful.
The absolute last thing you would want someone to think is "is that the new Civic/Accord?" That's why Lexus killed off the HS250, so many think it's a Corolla. The ES somehow fits in that grey area where the TL manages to be successful.
#26
And that's your opinion. The people who are buying the cars don't agree with you.
ILX vs MKZ
RLX vs MKS
Acura wishes the ILX and RLX can sell in the same numbers as the MKZ and MKS
(and yes, I know the ILX and MKZ aren't really direct competitors but it is their entry level sedan like the ILX is for Acura)
ILX vs MKZ
RLX vs MKS
Acura wishes the ILX and RLX can sell in the same numbers as the MKZ and MKS
(and yes, I know the ILX and MKZ aren't really direct competitors but it is their entry level sedan like the ILX is for Acura)
Last edited by AZuser; 09-02-2014 at 07:16 PM.
#27
I would take the ILX over the MKZ simply based on styling (see how that works, guys?)
But wow, those charts speak volumes!
But wow, those charts speak volumes!
#28
MKZ starting 34
ILX starting 27
Graph is moot.
ILX starting 27
Graph is moot.
#29
The Lincoln MKZ in my opinion it's gorgeous and it has a ton of presence on the road (you cannot say the same thing about the TLX) but it has some execution flaws (some fit and finish issues, the MyFord touch and the V6 engine is a bit weak and thrashy) but they can be fixed in a model update.
The aging MKS is on its way out (as its Taurus platform donor) so we do not know what it's coming to replace it yet....still the MKS (July 2013 YTD) beats the snout out of the RLX in sales (5218 vs 2292) and I do nto believe the difference is mainly fleet sales...I rarely see the MKS in rental lots (but I do see the MKZ)
So already one of the sedan in the renewed Acura lineup flopped and the small one (the ILX) is not doingt great...we will see what the TLX can do.
As the OP original question, Toyota decided to invest some serious money and it has a clear vision of the direction of its luxury brand where Honda has not...or better, Honda has maybe a clear idea and that is to compete with Buick...if you look at the Buick model range is very close to what Acura offers.
I believe Ford finally wants to invest some money to make Lincoln a Tier 1 competitor.
The aging MKS is on its way out (as its Taurus platform donor) so we do not know what it's coming to replace it yet....still the MKS (July 2013 YTD) beats the snout out of the RLX in sales (5218 vs 2292) and I do nto believe the difference is mainly fleet sales...I rarely see the MKS in rental lots (but I do see the MKZ)
So already one of the sedan in the renewed Acura lineup flopped and the small one (the ILX) is not doingt great...we will see what the TLX can do.
As the OP original question, Toyota decided to invest some serious money and it has a clear vision of the direction of its luxury brand where Honda has not...or better, Honda has maybe a clear idea and that is to compete with Buick...if you look at the Buick model range is very close to what Acura offers.
I believe Ford finally wants to invest some money to make Lincoln a Tier 1 competitor.
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d1sturb3d119 (09-02-2014)
#30
Instructor
When Honda put a turbo in the RDX, that was the beginning of their downfall. I read an article years ago when a Honda engineer specifically said that the use turbos were for LAZY engineers. So therefore Honda became lazy.
#31
Burning Brakes
iTrader: (1)
They need a clear idea of what the hell they're doing. Turbo or not just give us the same great handling, more power and goodies on the inside. Its not gimicky if everyone is offering the same features as standard. Enhance the damn driving experience and make cars entertaining. Especially if one pays 40K-50K for it.
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Costco (09-02-2014)
#34
I didn't think the price difference was that much. I mean, okay, I can see BMW outselling Acura despite a higher price tag for similar models, but Lincoln?!?
#35
60K per year for the TLX is doable...not because the car is particularly good (IMHO it isn't) but it's replacing two sedans (TL and TSX) and it's basically playing almost in the mainstream sedan market where someone interested in an optioned up Fusion for example, could give a look at the TLX...Acura lowered the bar and targeting a potentially larger audience.
But with the RLX bombed and the ILX not in very good health, Acura has a lot of riding on the TLX...
But with the RLX bombed and the ILX not in very good health, Acura has a lot of riding on the TLX...
#36
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another dead horse thread
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gatrhumpy (09-03-2014)
#37
There was nothing luxurious about the Integra and Acura has never been perfect and has always made boneheaded decisions. The Vigor was a failure, the 1st gen TL was a failure, the re-badged Izuzu SUV was a fail, and the Integra continued for 8 years without change! The best time for Acura was not the 1990's, contrary to what everyone wants to believe. 2004-2008 were Acura's best years (TL was sucessful, TSX was successful, MDX was successful, etc.)
The RDX is a great SUV and is selling well, the MDX is a great SUV and is selling well, and the TLX is a great car and should sell well. The people saying Acura only competes with Buick and Lincoln are out of their damn minds.
Agreed
The RDX is a great SUV and is selling well, the MDX is a great SUV and is selling well, and the TLX is a great car and should sell well. The people saying Acura only competes with Buick and Lincoln are out of their damn minds.
Agreed
Last edited by H_CAR; 09-02-2014 at 09:22 PM.
#38
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charliemike (09-02-2014)
#39
a v8 offering would help, getting rid of the fwd rlx, making the tlx a v6 platform, better quality interiors.... real leather... two offering per model base and advanced.
Last edited by YeuEmMaiMai; 09-02-2014 at 10:19 PM.
#40
I drive a Subata.
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THIS is what happened.
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