Tennisjon2002

I have a 2006 Honda Civic Si. May 1st 2009 I started having problems with my Clutch Master Cylinder (squeaking and popping) and my Sun Visor (breaking) (tsb: http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/a08-023.PDF ). I was less than a month outside of my 3 year warranty and had less than 31,000 miles on the car.

I bought the car brand new off the truck with less than 10 miles and I have babied the car ever since, never raced it, never abused it. During my 3 years of warranty I had an outrageous number of problems including:

• 2 defective power steering racks
• Tapping noise in the morning coming from engine bay that started after 2nd power steering rack was replaced. (been in 2 times and still not fixed)
• Both Sun visors cracked and replaced via the TSB
• Shift boot started tearing
• Front bump stops were replaced due to a popping noise via the TSB
• Side mirror had to be replaced because it shook so bad I couldn’t see out of it
• Rattles from A pillar, rear headliner and Rear Deck via TSB
• Steering wheel had to be replaced because it was disintegrating
• My Electric Trunk Release snapped and locked me out of my trunk
• Battery died, would not jump and left me stranded. Had to get towed.
• ECU reflashed for rev hang and bucking in first gear.
• AirBag Sensor Recall
• Rear seat latch broke

I also have the 3rd gear problem ( http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/mechanical-...8-3rd-gear.html ) that I will be getting fixed eventually down the road.

I was hoping I would stop having problems after my car was a year or so old, but it just keeps getting worse….

Those are just the problems that I came up with off the top of my head, I am sure there are more.

I went to my dealer May 1st to notify them of the problems with my CMC. The technicians had left so I figured I would bring the car back later. The CMC seemed a little better for the next 2 weeks or so then it got bad again. May 11th Honda sent the following message to service departments through their network:

I took my car in May 19th and had my car diagnosed by a technician and Honda requested videos of the clutch noises. They were immediately sent to Honda and Honda confirmed they wanted the parts from my car.

The popping noise:
<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i8.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid8.photobucket.com/albums/a31/tennisjon2002/MVI_2705.flv">

<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i8.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid8.photobucket.com/albums/a31/tennisjon2002/MVI_2704.flv">

and the squeak:
<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i8.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid8.photobucket.com/albums/a31/tennisjon2002/MVI_2768.flv">

The problem is I am just outside of warranty so Honda does not want to pay for the labor. The issue was sent to the District Parts and Service Manager and he decided (after taking 4 weeks) that Honda is not going to cover either of my issues.

I went ahead and called Honda Customer Service. I have heard bad things from everyone who has called Honda Customer Service, but I never experienced it for myself. Now I know how Honda Customer Service had gotten such a bad reputation………

I explained my issue to a Customer Service representative and she said I had a good case and said she would get the regional guy to call me and help me out.

I then got a call from Gus, the regional guy (ext 117754). Gus has been nothing more then useless. From the start he tells me everything with the clutch is a wear and tear item and my request for Honda to repair this is outrageous. He also tells me that this is not a customer service issue.

First off, CMC and the Slave master cylinder are NOT wear and tear items and are covered under the normal B2Bwarranty as well as HondaCare, I do not have a HondaCare extended warranty though. I have told by Honda that the CMC and Slave are not covered under the powertrain warranty although companies like Chevy for example cover them under their powertrain warranty:

Chevy Warranty Information | Owners | Chevrolet

My family owns 4 Hondas, has bought nothing but Hondas for the last 10 years and I was coincidently literally driving to a Honda dealer to pick up a new Honda when I was talking to Gus. If keeping a longtime Honda customer happy is not an issue of customer service, I am really not sure what Honda thinks customer service is? (by this point I have realized they clearly don’t know)

Gus also denied that the bulletin (about the clutches) by Honda is any admission of a problem of squeaky and clicking clutches and that they must “just be doing research”.

Gus told me all he can do is act as a liaison on my behalf and ask the DPSM to reconsider his decision, but he says it is very unlikely anything will happen. He also said the DPSM is the only one who can order my car to be fixed.

During my many many visits to the dealership to get my car repaired, I had a service advisor tell me I should sell my car because there are obviously big issues with it. I told Gus this and his response was “would you like to file a formal complaint against that service advisor?” I asked him why I would want to file a complaint for someone being real with me, to which he said that was just one persons opinion and it is up to me if I would like to take his advice and get rid of my car.

I find this kind of coincidental how he played this off saying it was just one person’s opinion, while it is also just one persons opinion who decides whether my car is fixed by Honda or not, the DPSM. The DPSM has never met me, does not know anything about my car, nor has he ever seen the car or problem.

I also asked Gus if he or the DPSM have seen the videos above of my clutch. He said he has not, so I asked him if I could email them to him. He told me his email can not accept outside emails (BS).

So basically people at Honda are making a decision about whether to fix my car, but they have not even seen it.

I talked to my dealership service manager about my clutch issue and he apologized and said there is not really anything he can do, Honda and the DPSM are all above his level. He said this seems to be happening more with Honda which sucks for him because he is the front line with the customer and it makes the dealership and service department look bad, when in reality it has nothing to do with them.

I just got a call from Gus at Honda Customer Service today and he told me he talked to the DPSM and he has decided his original decision stands, Honda will not replace or assist me in replacing my master cylinder, because I am a month out of warranty. I requested that they cover the master cylinder against failure for the powertrain warranty and I was told they can not do that either.

My dealership has also denied my sunvisor repair request.
Here are some pictures of the sunvisor problem. The visors are just starting to break and will be much worse in a few weeks:



And circled are the broken tabs that are the cause of the problem:



I think this is outrageous, given that this is a known common issue:

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/mecha...isors-suk.html
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/mecha...sun-visor.html
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/mecha...visor-fix.html
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/mecha...nally-fix.html
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/mecha...sunvisors.html

And Honda has done NOTHING to try to fix it. All they are doing is replacing them under warranty and then waiting till your warranty is up. They have not even changed the 09 sunvisors which makes 4 years they have put the same POS sunvisors on the civics. I already got both of my visors replaced a year and a half ago, so at this rate I need new visors every 1.5 years. The cost of the visors is $50 each so that comes out to about $70 (after tax) a year on SUNVISORS!! THAT IS MORE THAN I SPEND ON OIL CHANGES!!! My service advisor said he has done hundreds of them, literally.

I told Gus of Honda Customer service this and he said I would need to go to the dealer and get it in writing that they will not cover my visor and I will need to open up a new case. He said it was very unlikely that Honda would do anything.

Through out this entire proceeding I have remained collective and professional, yet assertive. I haven’t yelled at anyone or acted like a jackass. At this point I think I am more frustrated with the way Honda is treating its customers then the actual problem. I am going to have to seriously reconsider EVER buying another Honda.

Sorry for the long rant I just wanted to vent and share my experience.

and WAY TO GO HONDA

SuperTrooper169

iTrader: (2)

I didn't have time to read through the entire post, but I saw a few things that I have had to deal with on a few of my Hondas as well. I had the clutch master cylinder go on my 04 Si, which was partly covered under warranty, but still had to pay about $200 out of pocket, and I've always had the creaking/squeaky clutch pedal in my 03 Accord 6mt, although it doesn't pop like yours does. Yikes that sounds bad. I also have luckily escaped the 3rd gear issue as well. It sure sounds like you've had all the issues occur on your one car, which has to be a major major headache. Sorry to hear about your bad experience because the Si is supposed to be such a great car.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

wow

sorry to hear that

TheMirror

This car sounds like a lemon law candidate, although I can't remember the stipulations for filing offhand.

Tennisjon2002

I think it is too late now. The car is 3 years old. Most of these problems have been within the last year which is what worries me.

Tennisjon2002

Thanks. Yea I LOVE the car, it has just been a headache. I was really expecting (even with the economy in the crapper) that Honda would step up and fix these since I was a month out of warranty and only 31,000 miles on a car that has had so many problems owned by a loyal Honda customer.

nokiaman

Oh brother do I feel you. To be quite honest with you, Honda is really falling behind lately. The Honda Odyssey has a VERY common problem of rotors being warped at pretty low mileage. At 13200miles, I took it in to let them now it was vibrating whilst braking at high speeds. They told me it was a common problem and that it was a 600$ job to install new rotors/pads. Not to mention that there was a customer right behind me that was also complaining about his 08 Pilot brakes at 18k miles as well.

If it really wasn't for the crappy customer service, the vehicles are fine(give or take a few rattles) and they could really improve and regain some customers.

PortlandRL

Somebody in the 2G RL forum just traded in his '05 RL for a Hyundai Genesis because Acura's Client Services have gone down the tubes as well.

Tennisjon2002

Ha a few years ago I would laugh at someone for going Acura->Hyundai. Nowadays I can't blame them.

phile

You don't buy Hondas for their customer service, that's for sure. I have the whistling noise from the A/C on my CR-V. Dealer fixed it under TSB and warranty, but the problem is still there. I refuse to take it back again for them to take the 2 days it took for them to "fix" it the first time. Since it's a relatively minor issue I will live with it and sincerely pray nothing else will go wrong with the thing.

calgary2800

Wow, how things have changed. Didnt Honda in years past, flipped backwards to fix the auto tranny issues in the Accord and Odyssey and in the TLs? I am still very impressed with my 06 Accord, not one issue at 60k.

The only thing that is really bad about Honda is the road noise, sure it connects you to the road for a good feel but I am sick of it actually. I now use earplugs on long rides.

majin ssj eric

Thats truly sad how one guy ends up ruining the reputation of an entire company. Its no skin off his nose to go ahead and authorize what I'm sure would be a minor repair bill. I've never understood this attitude. Its not like its his money....

Its also times like this that I like to say "I told you so" to all the haters that talk shit for buying extended warranties. The piece of mind is worth every penny to me....

phile

I bought an extended warranty and I can tell you they do not cover the original mfr's warranty. The extended warranty is from a different company than the mfr, so you have to play by their rules. And they try to squeeze out of every issue.

majin ssj eric

^^^^Some extended warranties are like that. My extended warranties are from Infiniti and Lexus and are exactly the same as the original bumper-to-bumper warranties. I believe Hondacare and Acuracare are also just like the original manufacturers warranties...

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

I'm glad I haven't had ANYTHING wrong with my Honda.

Tennisjon2002

Out of curiosity, do u know if your accord was made in the US or in Japan?
I have heard that ones assembled in Japan seem to be a higher quality and that seems to be holding true from my personal experiences also.

tegkid

iTrader: (7)

my dad bought a 2003 honda accord i4 sedan in september 02, so right when that generation started production, and it has been amazing. he has put over 150k miles on it and it still runs like new while only performing routine maintenance and service.
Are civics that much more problematic than accords?
and is honda and acura CS the same?

dallison

that's what i have heard

dallison

it seems that hondas in the past few years have had a lot more problems. They must be pulling their parts out of the detroit parts bin.

vas25tl

Honda has always stood behind those transmission issues. They lost a lot of money from those years and I'm sure this may have something to do with how they look at these goodwill warranties today.

With budget cuts everywhere, I'm not surprised that they look at these things closer. It might also have something to do with the OP being so young in a Civic SI (def not right but we know it happens).

Either way, sorry OP...That sucks that even the regional guy said no.
GL man

vas25tl

There's a budget for everything...

Those budgets include the Transmission issues that they had for a few years and a lot of other things that need to be taken into consideration.

Tennisjon2002

Yea I don't doubt that my age could affect it even though I really do baby my car.
I also understand there are budget cuts etc and they can't throw around as much money as they used too but I had everything going for me:
-known problem
-car with lots of past problems
-loyal Honda customer
-only slightly over 3 years old, but still less than 36k miles.

MR1

Sorry to hear about your problems and how they have been (not) taken care of.
It really sounds like they are taking advantage of your youth imo.

If you have kept most or all of your receipts there may still be some hope. Read your state lemon law and perhaps contact an attorney. It sounded like the problems started well before the warranty expired. Clutches and brakes are tough but like you said, known problem.

If you can file a lemon law case with the state, Honda may change their mind and could loose, good luck.

Tennisjon2002

I wish I could say they are only taking advantage of me, but it seems like they are doing it for everyone on the sunvisor issue:

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/mecha...placement.html

If you are out of warranty it seems to be up to the dealer, if they don't want to cover it then it seems that you are out of luck. Honda "customer service" won't do anything. In fact in the thread above I have found someone in the same area as me with the same sunvisor problem getting the same responses from Honda and the dealers.

Tennisjon2002

I just got a call from Gus of American Honda "Customer Service" about my sunvisors. I think they are starting to do anything they can to inconvenience me and make me give up.

Yesterday, as American Honda requested, I took my car to the dealership to have the visor diagnosed, aka I wasted a lot of time for them to tell me my visor is broken and needs to be replaced. I told Gus this and I also explained the problem to him etc and how I feel it is a safety issue because I can barely get my visor closed and eventually it will not close which will block my vision and create a scalping hazard in the event of an accident. He said he is not trained to analyze whether it is a safety issue or not an said he is starting to doubt me, which I found slightly funny yet offensive. He is requiring me to fax him the dealer diagnoses which shows that the visor is broken and difficult to close. I am currently in the process of sending that.....

PortlandRL

Good luck, dude.

Belzebutt

I heard that in any "customer service" case, whether it's a blender or a TV, what you should do is write directly to the CEO. Apparently this gets things done real quick. You just need to find out who and where.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Do you or your parents know of any lawyers? When I say know... I mean friends who are lawyers who can help you out. If so, get all of your facts together and have them draft a letter to the dealership as well as Mr. Gus citing forums as evidence that there is a larger problem at hand here. Also, be sure to outline all of the facts, how close you were to the warranty expiration, etc, etc. Anything that could help your case.

Do not threaten them, just have the attorney draft a strongly worded letter to light a fire under their ass and "make" the dealership do the right thing.

Last suggestion I would have would be to go to the press. Seriously, email the local paper or TV station with your story and see if they'll spotlight you... then let the dealer and Gus know about it. Not only would Honda not want the press, but neither would the local dealer... and watch how fast they'll take care of you.

F23A4

WOW!! It's been my experience with Honda products that the vast majority are top notch when it comes to quality and durability but the small percentage which are not tend to be nightmares for the owners. Sorry for your woes Tennisjon.

While both my old 99 Accord and current 07 AV6 have been fairly solid, both had problems early on that I felt to be peculiar for new cars: defective rear suspension component in the former and defective rear window regulators in the latter.

The 99 Accord had a defective tranny just beyond the warranty expiration that Honda replaced nonetheless (and depsite my mods).

Tennisjon2002

http://www..com/showpost.php?p=37682520&postcount=15
Maybe its worth a try idk

Tennisjon2002

won't let me link to Honda Tech, but in a thread about the bad visors, someone posted the info about the Honda CEO and was telling people to send him complaints...

phile

they just need to stop sourcing these shitty sun visors. In all of our Hondas, from my first to my current, the sun visor when you flip them back into their resting place, they pop out of the plastic arm that they rest on.

stright-(paint)balling

i know you're having issues with your Si and myself as a Honda work i wanna say we're sorry. but our rate of quality compared to the "big 3" is better. HOWEVER i realize some stuff does get out.
now in reguards to Japan Honda vs Honda of Ohio(Marysville, East Libery and Anna) Quality. I go to QAS(Quality Assurance System) meetings about once to twice a month and our Quality reports are right even with the Japan plants as far as dealer returns for warrenty work per 100 cars sold. so the old myth of Japan Honda build better cars than Ohio Honda false.
as far as customer service. I got a GREAT dealer over by where i live. my mom's 08 Odyseey with Navi. had to have the Navi looked at. THEY PULLED THE WHOLE NAVI system out put in a whole new Navi system. didn't bill us 1 dime. detailed it (cause it was in the shop for awhile cause mom left it there while parts were being ordered).
I think every dealer a little different. the dealer to my north a waste of oxygen, the dealer to the west isn't bad but the one to the east is by far the best.

Tennisjon2002

Word. Here is a video of what my visor is doing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bggHLTV4O0

This is the same issue everyone else is having with these visors.

Also a little research yeilded some interesting results. There have been lots of complaints about visibility to the NHTSA:
49 Complaints for 2006 Civics
11 Complaints for 2007 Civics
5 Complaints for 2008 Civics

All most every single one of these is about the sunvisors snapping and falling, blocking vision and hitting people while they are driving.
You can read these complaints here:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/

LuvMyTSX

^ Wow, that would bug the crap out of me.

Tennisjon2002

It does bug the crap out of me

Tennisjon2002

Wow this just keeps getting better. I just got a call from Gus at Honda Customer service. The dealership I got the visors diagnosed at is denying that I ever got the visors diagnosed, even though I faxed the receipt to Gus, and they have decided to exercise their right to refuse service. Gus told me I need to take the car to another dealer. I have ALWAYS been respectful to the dealership and tried to make things as easy as possible for them, even when they have given me above and beyond reasonable problems:

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/deale...rant-long.html

I have probably spent ~3,000 there in the last 5 years or so in paid work (non warranty work).

WAY TO GO AMERICAN HONDA AND CROWN HONDA OF SOUTHPOINT IN DURHAM NORTH CAROLINA!

onebadna1nsx

wow.... just wow.
:thumbsdow
Very sorry to hear....

mrmako

Honestly, the service here in Japan is not much better. Basically, the company has no defects with their cars. I asked my wife's cousin (who is the head of the service department at our dealer) to look at my tranny (2G TL, 1999). He said Honda does not see a problem and it is fine. Not his fault, but the company as a whole could give a rats ass.

I say, contact a lawyer as indicated above, and do the newspaper / news station thing. Putting it in the news will get some things done. And it may help to call out people by name too. Bad press usually gets results.

And trade your civic for a nice Hyndai Genesis Coupe. They have a better warranty.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Now that they have screwed you further I just wanted to quote my original reply for your reference.

At this point I'd probably go to the press first. Last thing they need is bad press... especially in this economy.