Legend2TL

FWIW, a colleague (AP2 S2000, Camry, Ody) was at the DC autoshow recently looking at the ITS (which wasn't there due to none at any local dealerships to borrow) and CTR. One of the people at the Acura booth was from American Honda Company, said they're very aware of ADM. Said there's not much AHC can do about it and it's bad PR overall for Honda/Acura. But he said corporate are considering increasing production of the ITS/CTR, which could happen in late '24.

00TL-P3.2

They need to adopt the Dodge model & reduce ITS/CTR allocations for the biggest ADM-ers & give extra to the MSRP sellers.

PhilB81

‘I would think they could at a minimum stop allocating inventory of those desirable trims to dealers they see pushing ADM. As far as bad PR, I’m not 100% sure. I am sure though, they are crying all the way to the bank… what’s that? You need to finance your ADM though Honda finance, so sorry, but we are happy to help you with that. Reason why I don’t think it’s all bad is is because, sure some people are fussy and upset, but it creates this desirability for the vehicle and the fact that many if not all are doing it is a no brained to keep it up as long as you can.
The line about “corporate are considering increasing production…” come on they are not that dim, that was always an option, they choose not to. They are more than happy to build a desirable/sought after product. Rejoice people, it’s a Ferrari for the plebs.
If Honda simply increased the cost of the car, first; reviews would pit it against cars of a higher segment, second; price increase from Honda, how dare they! They must have lost their mind/way. And I think that would piss people off more.
If it’s market adjusted, well, sucks but how dare you speak against capitalism!
Now, I’m sure part of the reason for not ramping up CTR production over whatever the HX or DX equivalent is today is govt emission mandates for brand.

Using the example above of the CTR with a 5k markup, vs a golf R with no mark up. If I saw someone with a CTR and I knew he paid markup, I’d first think, “Ha dummy” but also I would think that he really wanted that car because to him it’s better. If I see the Golf R guy, I’d just think well, maybe that’s not what he wanted he just didn’t want or couldn’t do the ADM.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

That's a strange conclusion to jump to

Back in the before-times, when cars could be had under sticker, I could've paid less for a CTR. But instead, I got a Golf R. Not to take anything away from the Civic, but the interiors were not in the same league and I valued AWD and the ease of modification on the VW platform more. It also looked more mature. The Civic is a great track car, but for a daily that will never see the track, it would have been a waste, and a compromise IMO.

With the new generation, the gap is tighter. The Golf doesn't have that same premium feel while the Civic has definitely elevated itself. Unlike the previous gen, the CTR has presence. It looks wide. It looks special. The Golf R looks like a GTI with a different front bumper. But still, FWD vs AWD. If it's a daily, I'd still suggest the Golf, but if you're autocrossing or doing track days, get the CTR and don't look back.

00TL-P3.2

Agreed that the new CTR is much more 'mature' than the PepBoys look of the prior CTR

SamDoe1

All of this. I did the same thing lol.

I will also toss out there that you can get a TLX-S with less than 10k on the clock and full factory warranty for $45k right now. There are TONS of them out there.

A manual trans is not worth that kind of markup.

PhilB81

well, that was prior gen, and I was specifically referring to current cars in current market prices and ADM.
Also, how is it a strange conclusion that seeing a car that doesn’t currently have ADM while other cars in its class do have ADM that there is a (chance / perhaps / maybe) the owner purchased it over the alternatives because of no adm?

Are there people that would have bought a Golf R over a CTR regardless of price (within reason of course), absolutely! A friend of mine would probably prefer to use public transit over a CTR, but he LOVES the golf R (he’s a VW fan boy).
But when the general trend becomes that golf R is trading for more than the CTR and CTR can’t get away with ADM anymore, well, the golf R has become the more desirable one and CTR, in some cases becomes the consolation prize.

RPhilMan1

$7k ADM for CTR and $10k (hidden) ADM for Golf R. It's such a waste of time trying to track these cars down and contacting dealers while maneuvering through their BS (what's your phone number, when can you come in, call me to talk pricing, etc.).

I think I'll just forget it for a while and wait for the ITS at sticker from the one dealer I'm in contact with. Or just forget about anything until something literally falls off the ST and forces me to get into the new car market.

RPhilMan1

I also sat in the WRX at the auto show. While the exterior has grown on me, once I sat in the driver's seat the interior let me down. Especially after having just been in the ITS and CTR. The huge center screen is nice but the entire layout and materials of the center console, door arms, vents, etc. just feels so cheap. Hard plastics everywhere. But cheap is one of the huge advantages of this car... to be had around $36k with no markups and can even probably haggle the price down some. But it would just be too much of a compromise. I would only consider it if my current car is totaled and I had to buy something else quickly. But safe to say it's off the list as a contender.

PhilB81

Just curious, you’re looking to change things up because you just want something new, or you have concerns over reliability and possible repairs. Or now based on age / mileage you’re at a good cut over point?

RPhilMan1

Basically, I'm at a good cut over point. The Focus ST is at 107k miles and 11.5 years of age. It's running great, but the suspension is a little worn. Long-term it would be good to replace. I just had to buy a new set of winter tires for it this winter, which I was hoping to avoid. I think I should be able to get one more summer out of my summer tires but those will be due for replacement next. The rear brake pads and rotors were replaced last summer, and the fronts may be due soon in the next year or so. But outside of the front wheel bearings wearing out and a vacuum pump oil leak, the ST has been very solid and has not given me issues. I would like to get into a new car with a manual transmission before they are all gone. Preferably a hatchback.

mrmako

Golf R for Sale

PhilB81

nice, 12 years is a long time, glad it served you well! What do you think of the CT4V? Are those also impossible to find? I know it’s not a hatchback but atleast it’s not a yacht. You’re definitely planning well and looking ahead with the next items on the purchase list. Unfortunate timing with the marker but better than it was the last couple of years.
Are you looking for another long term, or you’d entertain a short fling or a lease?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

That's like saying someone bought a GT3RS because they couldn't afford a 488 Pista But as RPhilman said, there was a hidden ADM on the Golf, so all those Golf R owners are saved from your judgmental stares

@RPhilMan1 That sucks the dealer duped you. Not surprised in the least though. I can't wait for more car companies to elect the direct sales model.

PhilB81

I’m having a harder time conveying what I meant… I believe the McLaren 570s doesn’t have any adm, a new gt3 still does and that makes them about the same price. Again, the 570 is a super sweet car, but maybe that wasn’t his #1 choice.

Anyways…
I’ll second that it sucks they hid the ADM on the Golf R, personally, I would try to avoid dealing with a dealer like that once I found out.

SamDoe1

Dealers are only charging ADM because people will still pay it. It's stupid but true, it's a way for them to make a quick buck for no work at all.

How's the used market for the CTR and Golf R?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I'm only giving you shit

PhilB81

LOL, I worked hard for it!



cheers!

srika

Good Gravy...........

https://racecarsforyou.com/listing/2...t3r-rennsport/

PhilB81

only $1… I don’t mean to brag, but I’m thinking of getting 2 of them.

srika

That site is badddddd.... do not look at it.

pohljm

Hey guys! Picked up a nice 2013 Audi S5 Cabriolet with 40K to replace my TL. The supercharger whine is addictive. Figured I would hang out here for my Acurazine fix. Heard there are lots of Audi owners in here.

Doom878

00TL-P3.2

Thoughts on the 2010-14 [R55/6/7] Cooper S?
Always browsing & found a very clean Clubman S 6MT with pretty low mileage [72k] & mid-spec options [no sunroof ]
Doing the mental gymnastics of dropping one of our car notes & could get into this almost even swap with the Exploder [may need a small bit of cash out to close].

SamDoe1

A 10 year old Mini Cooper costs more than your Exploder?

I'd just keep what you have now. It's safe and reliable. If you want something cheaper look for similarly safe and reliable over a 10 year old German car pretending to be a British one.

00TL-P3.2

No, I'd probably need 2-3k over the [decreasing, apparently] equity I have in the Explorer. But, the dealer has had it on their lot about a month already, so may have some flexibility there.
Always wanted a Mini & didn't think to look at them when shopping to replace the Malibu.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I'd only consider a 2013-14 with the N16 motor. Many of the problems were corrected/minimized with the switch from the N14. Primarily, turbo line issues, leaky oil coolers, and rattly timing chains (which requires attention or it will eat your engine). Thankfully the timing chain guides are a cassette and not terribly involved to replace.

I wanted one about a decade ago but the only models in my price range, spec'd how I wanted one, were 2010/11 models, and I was scared away from them lol They're really fun to drive though.

John from PA

Interesting article about the balljoints of a few Honda models subject to recall. Balljoints, were they tightened properly

00TL-P3.2

Seems in line with what I've read. This, being a 14, is the N14, which also rids of the HPFP issues of the N12.
With where it stands right now, I'd be out 4-6k to get it done.

SamDoe1

I'd just keep your current car...or buy a Toyota.

00TL-P3.2

You're probably right.
May still go at least take a look at it this weekend if they still have it.

Aman

Getting rid of a car note would be pretty nice.

I looked at a few Cooper Ss of that vintage when shopping the ST. Interior didn't float my boat, otherwise I would have considered them more seriously.

00TL-P3.2

Considering I was briefly looking at 05-ish 4Runners, the spartan interior isn't a bother.
You really want a challenge, try finding a Mini of that vintage [don't remember if it was just the 1G BMW/Mini or if the 2G cars got it too] with the 'Mickey Mouse' gauges, where the speedo is on the steering column instead of the center. Seems a pretty rarely selected option (factory NAV, moved the speedo to the column instead of the center IIRC).

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Factory nav was a must have for me when I was shopping them. The center gauges is a non-starter for me (ironic, now that I have the golf cart). Plus sunroof and HIDs. Ideally I wanted green with black interior, but could never make it happen, so I went VW instead.

PhilB81

100% on the center gauges. Friend of mine had an early supercharged mini, I was super impressed with it, it felt like a go kart… but for some reason looking to the right and down to see the gauges made me feel like it was a poorly executed gimmick and immediate write-off. Buying it with Monopoly money and driving it with oversized shoes that honked when walking seemed more appropriate.

mrmako

Thought this was interesting......

RPhilMan1

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Did you???

00TL-P3.2

That's a nice progression from the ST. Looking forward to hearing more about it.

SamDoe1

More pics or ban.