The Flushness
04-08-2013, 01:44 PM
#1
The Flushness
So I was thinking about flushness. And how most of us would like, or already have achieved [I[flushness[/I]. I know I would.
So I thought, 'if flushness is so cool, why don't they make cars that come with wheel setups that are flush?' I mean, even the 18x8.5 OEM wheels have the 45mm offset.
So while going for a walk, I saw my neighbor's car; it's a Charger Super Bee with giant OEM wheels. So I thought 'that car must be hella flush!'
It wasn't as flush as I thought it could have been (i.e. flush with the fender flare).
Then this morning at the gym, I saw a Ferrari F430 Spyder. I thought that this car's rims would be super flush.
And it was flush with the body... however the fender flare that goes over the top of the wheels is still wider.
My only guess was that maybe it has to do with aerodynamics, think those older cars with the rear wheels completely covered.
Then I saw on 04WDPSEDAN's progress thread, where he posted the new rims on the KIA. And how ROCKSTAR143 complimented on how flush it is.
So that really got me thinking: There might be more than one flushness
And if so, how flush are you? with the body, with the fender flare, or something else?
And why? I know there isn't always a 'why' when it comes to aesthetics, but if there is a logical reason, please share!
I've seen both types of flushes on AZ and I'm liking them both. But definitely leaning towards with that "flush with the body". Because if it's good enough for ferrari...
So I thought, 'if flushness is so cool, why don't they make cars that come with wheel setups that are flush?' I mean, even the 18x8.5 OEM wheels have the 45mm offset.
So while going for a walk, I saw my neighbor's car; it's a Charger Super Bee with giant OEM wheels. So I thought 'that car must be hella flush!'
It wasn't as flush as I thought it could have been (i.e. flush with the fender flare).
Then this morning at the gym, I saw a Ferrari F430 Spyder. I thought that this car's rims would be super flush.
And it was flush with the body... however the fender flare that goes over the top of the wheels is still wider.
My only guess was that maybe it has to do with aerodynamics, think those older cars with the rear wheels completely covered.
Then I saw on 04WDPSEDAN's progress thread, where he posted the new rims on the KIA. And how ROCKSTAR143 complimented on how flush it is.
So that really got me thinking: There might be more than one flushness
And if so, how flush are you? with the body, with the fender flare, or something else?
And why? I know there isn't always a 'why' when it comes to aesthetics, but if there is a logical reason, please share!
I've seen both types of flushes on AZ and I'm liking them both. But definitely leaning towards with that "flush with the body". Because if it's good enough for ferrari...
Last edited by tweeder82o; 04-08-2013 at 01:57 PM.
04-08-2013, 01:51 PM
#2
BANNED
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car manufacturers don't make wheel setups flush out of the assembly line for numerous reasons.
one, it's not practical...especially if you're lowered a good amount.
two, nobody cares (by nobody i mean the people desigining cars/wheel setups)
three, IMO...flush to the fender only looks good if your car is lowered a good amount and most cars don't come slammed right out of the box so it would look odd to have a flush wheel setup with a stock height car.
^these are all just my opinions and i could be wrong but that's what i think about it.
i do agree tho, flush > sunk.
one, it's not practical...especially if you're lowered a good amount.
two, nobody cares (by nobody i mean the people desigining cars/wheel setups)
three, IMO...flush to the fender only looks good if your car is lowered a good amount and most cars don't come slammed right out of the box so it would look odd to have a flush wheel setup with a stock height car.
^these are all just my opinions and i could be wrong but that's what i think about it.
i do agree tho, flush > sunk.
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Undying Dreams (04-09-2013)
04-08-2013, 02:53 PM
#3
Nice refreshing thread.
I love flush but as Sharksbreath stated, a fully or near fully flush car needs to be lowered. This is to eliminate perceived wheel gap.
The worst thing to do is lower the car and not put either wheel spacers on it OR of course a wider rim/tire combonation to get the flushness.
Even Porsches out there need a dose of flushing.
The reason why auto manufaturers do not go flush is because they need to make enough space for the use of snow-chains. This gives the owner an option to do so.
Since in this forum few if any of us care to ever use chains then we are left with no other choice than to flush.
So all of you out there.....flush away.
I love flush but as Sharksbreath stated, a fully or near fully flush car needs to be lowered. This is to eliminate perceived wheel gap.
The worst thing to do is lower the car and not put either wheel spacers on it OR of course a wider rim/tire combonation to get the flushness.
Even Porsches out there need a dose of flushing.
The reason why auto manufaturers do not go flush is because they need to make enough space for the use of snow-chains. This gives the owner an option to do so.
Since in this forum few if any of us care to ever use chains then we are left with no other choice than to flush.
So all of you out there.....flush away.
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tweeder82o (04-08-2013)
04-08-2013, 08:42 PM
#4
2014 Jeep SRT
I'm gonna disagree with this. If I'm an R&D designer for any car manufacturer, the last thing I'm thinking about when styling the car and creating the overall look is how much fender well clearance there is for snow chains. That's what snow tires are for.
04-08-2013, 11:03 PM
#5
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...odynamics.html
you'll have to play with the interactive demo, and choose number 3.
it's talking about the design of the wheels, but I suspect that it doesn't matter what the design is if the wheels are sticking out creating turbulence.
04-09-2013, 08:40 AM
#8
I spend 2 much time here
on the topic of flushness, i just installed some 18in TL a-spec wheels on my 1G TSX. it seems like they are far more flush then the previous 18in wheels i had on there which i think is the cause of rubbing issues. i am only really having rubbing issues in the rear.
should i get a camber kit and dial in some camber so the rear is a little less flush?
should i get a camber kit and dial in some camber so the rear is a little less flush?
04-09-2013, 10:10 AM
#9
The Third Ball
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04-09-2013, 10:53 AM
#10
Team Owner
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04-09-2013, 01:36 PM
#11
The sizzle in the Steak
Did he say "hella"
Flush this thread.
Flush this thread.
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Undying Dreams (04-09-2013)
04-09-2013, 02:26 PM
#13
wow...
I learned something today:
the responses to this thread while it was still in the "tire, wheels, and suspensions" forum is drastically different than when it is in this current forum.
I learned something today:
the responses to this thread while it was still in the "tire, wheels, and suspensions" forum is drastically different than when it is in this current forum.
04-09-2013, 02:31 PM
#14
Senior Moderator
Look at the Kia wheel well bottom. See how it tapers toward the inside of the car as it goes down? IMO, it looks stupid when the tires are sticking out, and this taper only enhances that affect. Shark's Breath is right in that it is unpractical. What if you hit a bump leaving the lot? Should your tire meet your fender? What about a fender liner that keeps the water/mud out? What about when I go to the river with a 20 gallon ice chest full of beer and ice in the trunk and 4 girls in the back seat?
Having a "look" that does not increase performance and hinders your ability to drive is stupid.
Having a "look" that does not increase performance and hinders your ability to drive is stupid.
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tweeder82o (04-09-2013)
04-09-2013, 02:59 PM
#15
MechEng
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Actually that "look" does increase performance. Pushing the wheels out allows you to put on wider tires and widens the stance, improving handling to some extent over OEM.
If you're really worried about the wheels sticking past the taper of the bumper, get some mud flaps
^ This is all referring to the Kia posted above specifically and does not apply to "hellaflush"
If you're really worried about the wheels sticking past the taper of the bumper, get some mud flaps
^ This is all referring to the Kia posted above specifically and does not apply to "hellaflush"
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tweeder82o (04-09-2013)
04-09-2013, 03:00 PM
#16
Senior Moderator
Wouldn't it make more sense to buy a RWD car if you care about handling?
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tweeder82o (04-09-2013)
04-09-2013, 03:16 PM
#18
Drifting
iTrader: (1)
What defines flush? Is it the rim being even with the fender or the tire being even with the fender? I had this discussion in the 4G section a while back and found that my belief it was the tire was wrong. Maybe it's just cause I'm old school and am still getting used to the stretched tire trend but I'm stubborn and feel it should be the tire 
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tweeder82o (04-09-2013)
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tweeder82o (04-09-2013)
04-09-2013, 04:30 PM
#20
04-09-2013, 04:43 PM
#21
Aero
Lookswise, I do think some amount of flushness is nice.
And to reference the pictures above, if I had to choose between the flushness of the kia vs the flushness of the ferrari, i'd choose the kia's flushness. And I think most on here will agree.
With that said, I searched for more on the turbulence caused by the tires/wheels. In addition to what I found with BMW, link in my previous post, many performance car makers are quite concerned with the wheels' effect on aerodynamics. See Audi R8
open wheel racer aero:
Read more
furthermore
And to reference the pictures above, if I had to choose between the flushness of the kia vs the flushness of the ferrari, i'd choose the kia's flushness. And I think most on here will agree.
With that said, I searched for more on the turbulence caused by the tires/wheels. In addition to what I found with BMW, link in my previous post, many performance car makers are quite concerned with the wheels' effect on aerodynamics. See Audi R8
open wheel racer aero:
Ground Effects and Diffusers
Even the best air dam can't fully remove the effects of tires, whichcause over 40 percent of an open wheeler's total drag. Even on afendered car, the wheels and tires remain a major lift and drag source.The tires' rolling resistance makes up a component of drag, and thisresistance increases at higher speeds. Air accelerating over the top ofa spinning wheel reduces pressure on its top surface, creating lift.Tires also add to the frontal area, but no one wants to trade off thestickiness of wider tires for more aero-efficient skinny tires--unlessthey're racing Bonneville.
Even the best air dam can't fully remove the effects of tires, whichcause over 40 percent of an open wheeler's total drag. Even on afendered car, the wheels and tires remain a major lift and drag source.The tires' rolling resistance makes up a component of drag, and thisresistance increases at higher speeds. Air accelerating over the top ofa spinning wheel reduces pressure on its top surface, creating lift.Tires also add to the frontal area, but no one wants to trade off thestickiness of wider tires for more aero-efficient skinny tires--unlessthey're racing Bonneville.
furthermore
04-09-2013, 04:55 PM
#22
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Mr. Maker (04-10-2013)
04-09-2013, 05:06 PM
#24
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Mr. Maker (04-10-2013)
04-09-2013, 05:21 PM
#25
The sizzle in the Steak
04-09-2013, 07:22 PM
#27
Safety Car
its pretty simple. IMO, because manufacturers dont want to run the risk of consumers ripping their fenders off, or damaging body panels with debris, or from tires coming in direct contact with the body panel.
only way to disprove the theory: show me a car that has an inner wheel well that DOESNT extend higher than the exterior fender lip. theres additional room in the wheel well for a reason.
only way to disprove the theory: show me a car that has an inner wheel well that DOESNT extend higher than the exterior fender lip. theres additional room in the wheel well for a reason.
04-09-2013, 08:09 PM
#29
Safety Car
and vertical movement of the wheel itself inside the wheel well -- the space would be entirely lost once the wheel was extended outwards towards the fender lip
04-09-2013, 10:22 PM
#30
Senior Moderator
I would love to see some skid pad data on a FWD TL with 7.5" rear tires and one with 9" rear tires.
04-10-2013, 10:06 AM
#32
Team Owner
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04-10-2013, 10:20 AM
#33
Burning Brakes
Found this chart on the interwebz that's relevant to this discussion...
Maybe I'm old but I don't get the crazy neg camber and stretched tire thing at all.
PS - doesn't "flush" by definition mean that the two surfaces line up perfectly? I guess it has now become a subjective term.
Maybe I'm old but I don't get the crazy neg camber and stretched tire thing at all.
PS - doesn't "flush" by definition mean that the two surfaces line up perfectly? I guess it has now become a subjective term.
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tweeder82o (04-10-2013)
04-10-2013, 10:27 AM
#34
Senior Moderator
Kia looks Mexi-flush to me.
04-10-2013, 10:57 AM
#35
Three Wheelin'
wheels on my car are pretty damn close to flush and my car is lowered on sleeves about an inch. I think it looks great but when going slow I can hear every pebble on the road slinging up on the side of my car.
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tweeder82o (04-10-2013)
04-10-2013, 11:06 AM
#36
04-10-2013, 11:07 AM
#37
looks nice!is that a camero? what's your set up, wheelwise?
04-10-2013, 11:12 AM
#38
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04-10-2013, 11:18 AM
#39
Senior Moderator
