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civicdrivr (06-15-2020),mrmako (08-01-2020),nist7 (07-26-2020),RPhilMan1 (06-17-2020),srika (07-27-2020),Tech (06-14-2020) and 1 others liked this post. (Show less...)
Ferrari is getting a taste of its own, bitter (legal) medicine: the Italian carmaker has partially lost the trademark to the shape of its iconic 250 GTO after Italian coachbuilder Ares Design invoked the “use it or lose it” argument with the EUIPO.
Ferrari is notoriously protective of anything and everything that bears even a remote connection to the Ferrari brand and has, along the years, earned a reputation for being quick to fire cease and desists and even lawsuits against anyone who dare infringe their trademark. Ares Design, a coachbuilder from Ferrari’s hometown of Modena, Italy, is fighting fire with fire.
Ferrari has held the trademark for the shape of the 250 GTO, aka the most iconic Ferrari of all time and one of the most expensive cars in the world, all this time. In 2008, it filed for a renewal of the trademark with the EUIPO (European Union Intellectual Protection Office).
That filing was in very bad faith because Ferrari hasn’t been using the shape of the 250 GTOs in any new car for decades, Ares Design claimed in a filing that contested the trademark. In short, Ares Design cited the “use it or lose it” argument, where a trademark can be canceled if the entity owning it hasn’t been using it for a period of five continuous years.
Ferrari fought back, but EUIPO has sided with Ares. As such, the trademark for the shape of the “holy grail” of cars no longer belongs to Ferrari. As of this moment, Scuderia only holds that trademark for car toys and models.
“In the present case, the Cancellation Division considers that genuine use of the contested EUTM has been sufficiently demonstrated for the relevant factors in relation to toy vehicles, scale-model vehicles, whereas no use of the mark or proper reasons for non-use have been demonstrated in relation to any of the other goods in Class 12 (vehicles) for which it is registered,” the EUIPO says.
The irony is not lost here: just this year, the Scuderia invoked the same argument when going after a small Italy charity for daring to call itself Purosangue, which is also the name of its upcoming don’t-call-it-an-SUV SUV. The filing claimed that The Purosangue Foundation hadn’t used that name in over five years (though it had), so it no longer had a right to hold the trademark to it.
Some context needed here, since Ferrari and Ares Design have a storied history. In 2018, the latter announced plans to make a limited-series of reinvented 250 GTOs, using the shape of 250 and styling cues from the 812 Superfast. “It’s a modern reinterpretation, not a copy,” Dany Bahar, chief executive officer of Ares Design, said at the time of the €1 million ($1.13 million) car.
Ferrari wasn’t impressed by the “modern interpretation” approach and took matters (where else?) to court. In 2018, a court in Bologna, Italy, recognized the original Ferrari 250 GTO as a work of art which could not replicated, partially or entirely.
The wanted price when it to auction was 4-5 million Euros for what looks like (& is technically) a redesigned 599 GTO; they rejected a $2.2 million bid & it's been for sale since the auction back in Feb. 2019. It's just simply not unique-looking enough & it's easily hit-or-miss in appearance, esp. with those winglets added on.
At $5 million, that's enough to get Ferrari to layout your own SP car. And that's assuming absolutely nothing else tickles your fancy, since at that price, you can literally buy 99% of anything else they've built in the last 30 years. I think only the F40 LM/GTE, F50 GT, 333SP & the LaF. Apertas have commanded over $5 million.
At $5 million, that's enough to get Ferrari to layout your own SP car. And that's assuming absolutely nothing else tickles your fancy, since at that price, you can literally buy 99% of anything else they've built in the last 30 years. I think only the F40 LM/GTE, F50 GT, 333SP & the LaF. Apertas have commanded over $5 million.
Wow, didn't know the LaFerrari Apertas have appreciated that much.....dang.....
Wow, didn't know the LaFerrari Apertas have appreciated that much.....dang.....
That was back within the first year or so of production when it was impossible to see one up for sale, presumably due to Ferrari's strict rules on reselling. Right now, I think the market is $4-4.5 million just b/c there's still a tiny amount for sale.
That was back within the first year or so of production when it was impossible to see one up for sale, presumably due to Ferrari's strict rules on reselling. Right now, I think the market is $4-4.5 million just b/c there's still a tiny amount for sale.
Crazy stuff. Yeah JamesEdition has a few and one is listed for 4M and another is like 4.88M...and then couple with no price publically listed.
From what I've read I guess this is not surprising since Ferrari is notorious for being extreme gate-keepers on who can buy their newest and latest. IIRC, David Lee, the infamous Ferrari collector who is rich as hell still has to source his top level Ferraris second hand because he's unable to get one from new. Seems like even boat load of money is not enough.
But I wonder though....say you've never been in the car game (specifically Ferraris) but you are one of the richest people in the world worth say 10+ billions in USD...and you want to jump straight in....I mean with enough money I wonder if you could sway Ferrari to give you an allocation to LaFerrari 2.0? Say Bezos all of a suddent wanted to get into Ferrari collecting (assuming he's not that big into cars and wants to get in)....I mean a dude worth 100+ billion could be different? I mean at this level of society....it seems like all you need is butt load of money and people that know people.....which you probably have if you're worth that much...
Crazy stuff. Yeah JamesEdition has a few and one is listed for 4M and another is like 4.88M...and then couple with no price publically listed.
From what I've read I guess this is not surprising since Ferrari is notorious for being extreme gate-keepers on who can buy their newest and latest. IIRC, David Lee, the infamous Ferrari collector who is rich as hell still has to source his top level Ferraris second hand because he's unable to get one from new. Seems like even boat load of money is not enough.
So there's an interesting theory here from some in the Ferrari community.
Many believe that while Ferrari openly invites and sells David more mainstream models, the reason they believe he is not selected for the halo cars is b/c of how he uses Ferrari to boost his brand. It makes sense; Ferrari has gone after others for using their cars in the background to promote their own products, even though Ferrari does not endorse them. David uses Ferrari specifically to get his profile out there as "Ferraricollector_davidlee", and under that moniker, he uses the cars/name in the same profile to promote his jewelry business. He holds exotic car meets & pictures showcasing his cars in front of his jewelry business. The cars are stored... under his jewelry business.
Those with a deep understanding of how Ferrari's selection process works also know that Ferrari does watch this stuff. David is obviously a valued client collecting many of their cars new & used so he has a lot of leeway, but the clear advantage he takes of trying to associate himself with Ferrari to build his own gain is what most assume keeps Ferrari from selecting him. If you've never seen the logo he designed for himself, it is a blatant rip off of Ferrari's font & crest. https://www.asiabankersclub.com/wp-c...-2000x1125.jpg
There's been some added thoughts that unless you're someone who can bypass the points system Ferrari uses to select owners, David is also likely falling short b/c just owning a F40, F50, & Enzo isn't enough anymore. Owners like him have to actually be more involved with the brand and being part of the Corse Clienti racing Challenge cars is a good way to show good faith if one isn't as interested in the more standard approach: buy low-level Ferraris every 6-12 months, constantly trading in & building a rapport with your dealership even if you have something like a 812 on order for 18 months.
Lastly, while not likely, some attribute it to David's fibbing every so often like how he claims his 250 Competizione is a legit car when the history records indicate it's not. Worse when a factory validated historian (Marcel Massini) shows the 4 legit car chassis', and David says he has his own bookkeepers who say otherwise. It also does not help that David bought his LaFerrari from someone who was not supposed to sell it, and both men hid it. David paid for the car & had it in his collection, but under Ferrari's original insight, the first guy was still under presumption as the registered owner. Ferrari apparently found out, and it's assumed that both men likely soured their relationships with the brand. The original owner was still within' a time period he was not supposed to sell the car unless back to the dealer (I believe the story is he was going through a divorce and sold the car to get rid of it), and David obviously being around the brand enough, should have known that he would be fall under the same disapproval from Ferrari; it's a weird brand when it comes to this stuff, admittedly.
But I wonder though....say you've never been in the car game (specifically Ferraris) but you are one of the richest people in the world worth say 10+ billions in USD...and you want to jump straight in....I mean with enough money I wonder if you could sway Ferrari to give you an allocation to LaFerrari 2.0? Say Bezos all of a suddent wanted to get into Ferrari collecting (assuming he's not that big into cars and wants to get in)....I mean a dude worth 100+ billion could be different? I mean at this level of society....it seems like all you need is butt load of money and people that know people.....which you probably have if you're worth that much...
So Ferrari operates on basically a points system. The most common way to get picked for a halo car is to constantly buy basically, all new Ferrari products to prove your loyalty in a way. If you can invest it, buying a Challenge car and traveling the globe doing racing events helps build a relationship. For someone like Bezos, he is probably famous enough where if he wanted a LaFerrari, they would likely give him a slot based on his notoriety, not his net worth. Ferrari has tons of wealthy people all clamoring for their cars, so it's more so of Ferrari deciding whose worthy (i.e; who has spent 2-3x the amount of a LaFerrari in other ways just for the opportunity to throw money at the actual car) or who is famous enough that Ferrari actually benefits themselves. "Lewis Hamilton, rival F1 driver has a LaFerrari? Dang, they must be really good cars!"
There was a good post that gives a more depth on how this points system works, but this is the jest of it, iirc.
So there's an interesting theory here from some in the Ferrari community.
Many believe that while Ferrari openly invites and sells David more mainstream models, the reason they believe he is not selected for the halo cars is b/c of how he uses Ferrari to boost his brand. It makes sense; Ferrari has gone after others for using their cars in the background to promote their own products, even though Ferrari does not endorse them. David uses Ferrari specifically to get his profile out there as "Ferraricollector_davidlee", and under that moniker, he uses the cars/name in the same profile to promote his jewelry business. He holds exotic car meets & pictures showcasing his cars in front of his jewelry business. The cars are stored... under his jewelry business.
Those with a deep understanding of how Ferrari's selection process works also know that Ferrari does watch this stuff. David is obviously a valued client collecting many of their cars new & used so he has a lot of leeway, but the clear advantage he takes of trying to associate himself with Ferrari to build his own gain is what most assume keeps Ferrari from selecting him. If you've never seen the logo he designed for himself, it is a blatant rip off of Ferrari's font & crest. https://www.asiabankersclub.com/wp-c...-2000x1125.jpg
There's been some added thoughts that unless you're someone who can bypass the points system Ferrari uses to select owners, David is also likely falling short b/c just owning a F40, F50, & Enzo isn't enough anymore. Owners like him have to actually be more involved with the brand and being part of the Corse Clienti racing Challenge cars is a good way to show good faith if one isn't as interested in the more standard approach: buy low-level Ferraris every 6-12 months, constantly trading in & building a rapport with your dealership even if you have something like a 812 on order for 18 months.
Lastly, while not likely, some attribute it to David's fibbing every so often like how he claims his 250 Competizione is a legit car when the history records indicate it's not. Worse when a factory validated historian (Marcel Massini) shows the 4 legit car chassis', and David says he has his own bookkeepers who say otherwise. It also does not help that David bought his LaFerrari from someone who was not supposed to sell it, and both men hid it. David paid for the car & had it in his collection, but under Ferrari's original insight, the first guy was still under presumption as the registered owner. Ferrari apparently found out, and it's assumed that both men likely soured their relationships with the brand. The original owner was still within' a time period he was not supposed to sell the car unless back to the dealer (I believe the story is he was going through a divorce and sold the car to get rid of it), and David obviously being around the brand enough, should have known that he would be fall under the same disapproval from Ferrari; it's a weird brand when it comes to this stuff, admittedly.
So Ferrari operates on basically a points system. The most common way to get picked for a halo car is to constantly buy basically, all new Ferrari products to prove your loyalty in a way. If you can invest it, buying a Challenge car and traveling the globe doing racing events helps build a relationship. For someone like Bezos, he is probably famous enough where if he wanted a LaFerrari, they would likely give him a slot based on his notoriety, not his net worth. Ferrari has tons of wealthy people all clamoring for their cars, so it's more so of Ferrari deciding whose worthy (i.e; who has spent 2-3x the amount of a LaFerrari in other ways just for the opportunity to throw money at the actual car) or who is famous enough that Ferrari actually benefits themselves. "Lewis Hamilton, rival F1 driver has a LaFerrari? Dang, they must be really good cars!"
There was a good post that gives a more depth on how this points system works, but this is the jest of it, iirc.
Huh, thanks for taking the time to write that up. Good to know.
Points system huh? lol....but yeah Bezos makes sense purely for publicity (Ferrari will get massive positive PR) but otherwise if you're just a no-name dude but super rich...you probably gotta jump through all the standard hoops...there are a loooot of super rich out there for sure...
I knew Ferrari was pretty picky about their customer base/use of their cars. That almost makes them sound like a cult.
I'll try to find the FChat post that described it. It's definitely cult-ish, but it makes some sense when if you're building 200 halo cars & trying to figure out whose the most deserving. This selection process helps in keeping values up (which keeps the company's value up) when you weed out anyone who will quick flip the cars & not care if Ferrari gets upset.
So there's an interesting theory here from some in the Ferrari community.
Many believe that while Ferrari openly invites and sells David more mainstream models, the reason they believe he is not selected for the halo cars is b/c of how he uses Ferrari to boost his brand. It makes sense; Ferrari has gone after others for using their cars in the background to promote their own products, even though Ferrari does not endorse them. David uses Ferrari specifically to get his profile out there as "Ferraricollector_davidlee", and under that moniker, he uses the cars/name in the same profile to promote his jewelry business. He holds exotic car meets & pictures showcasing his cars in front of his jewelry business. The cars are stored... under his jewelry business.
Those with a deep understanding of how Ferrari's selection process works also know that Ferrari does watch this stuff. David is obviously a valued client collecting many of their cars new & used so he has a lot of leeway, but the clear advantage he takes of trying to associate himself with Ferrari to build his own gain is what most assume keeps Ferrari from selecting him. If you've never seen the logo he designed for himself, it is a blatant rip off of Ferrari's font & crest. https://www.asiabankersclub.com/wp-c...-2000x1125.jpg
There's been some added thoughts that unless you're someone who can bypass the points system Ferrari uses to select owners, David is also likely falling short b/c just owning a F40, F50, & Enzo isn't enough anymore. Owners like him have to actually be more involved with the brand and being part of the Corse Clienti racing Challenge cars is a good way to show good faith if one isn't as interested in the more standard approach: buy low-level Ferraris every 6-12 months, constantly trading in & building a rapport with your dealership even if you have something like a 812 on order for 18 months.
Lastly, while not likely, some attribute it to David's fibbing every so often like how he claims his 250 Competizione is a legit car when the history records indicate it's not. Worse when a factory validated historian (Marcel Massini) shows the 4 legit car chassis', and David says he has his own bookkeepers who say otherwise. It also does not help that David bought his LaFerrari from someone who was not supposed to sell it, and both men hid it. David paid for the car & had it in his collection, but under Ferrari's original insight, the first guy was still under presumption as the registered owner. Ferrari apparently found out, and it's assumed that both men likely soured their relationships with the brand. The original owner was still within' a time period he was not supposed to sell the car unless back to the dealer (I believe the story is he was going through a divorce and sold the car to get rid of it), and David obviously being around the brand enough, should have known that he would be fall under the same disapproval from Ferrari; it's a weird brand when it comes to this stuff, admittedly.
So Ferrari operates on basically a points system. The most common way to get picked for a halo car is to constantly buy basically, all new Ferrari products to prove your loyalty in a way. If you can invest it, buying a Challenge car and traveling the globe doing racing events helps build a relationship. For someone like Bezos, he is probably famous enough where if he wanted a LaFerrari, they would likely give him a slot based on his notoriety, not his net worth. Ferrari has tons of wealthy people all clamoring for their cars, so it's more so of Ferrari deciding whose worthy (i.e; who has spent 2-3x the amount of a LaFerrari in other ways just for the opportunity to throw money at the actual car) or who is famous enough that Ferrari actually benefits themselves. "Lewis Hamilton, rival F1 driver has a LaFerrari? Dang, they must be really good cars!"
There was a good post that gives a more depth on how this points system works, but this is the jest of it, iirc.
Thanks for that post. I know that this is the Ferrari Appreciation thread, but screw that. If I were that wealthy I would not jump though so many hoops for a car manufacturer for the privilege of parting with my millions in exchange for their car. This isn't even about exclusivity any more. There are other high end, limited run, appreciating super and hypercars out there to buy where the manufacturer would love the business. Ferrari has created a country club marketing scheme. Also, why should Ferrari care that a Ferrari owner posses with a car that they bought? Brand control? If so, that's a bit much. Maybe I'm missing the point. By the way, David Lee also has the Pagani Huayra (Di Vinci) [ aka: 730s ] which, in my humble opinion is one of the most beautiful cars ever crafted, which he also bought used. With ultra-high end, low mileage, hardly used cars like these, maybe buying a Ferrari second-hand provides the freedom to do what you want with your car. Even if that means selling it whenever you want... you know, because it's YOUR car.
If I were BoostedJack-rich, for every Ferrari that I'm not elitist enough to buy because of their parameters, there is still Pagani, Koenigsegg, Porsche, Aston Martin, and McLaren that can have my $$$.
But, first world problems, I suppose.
Maybe if David Lee was white........................
Here's an appreciation post to my Dad's 2005 Ferrari 575M Maranello...one of my favorite cars of all time...
Exactly. When Ferraris were Ferraris. I almost bought a 550. Nice flowing lines.
Now everything looks like an F117 fighter jet, or with body cut-outs like that yellow one up a few threads.
I was behind a C8 Corvette the other day; the first time I saw one in the flesh. As ugly like an Pontiac Aztec.
If I got a Vette, I'd want a C6 which has nice flowing lines.
Exactly. When Ferraris were Ferraris. I almost bought a 550. Nice flowing lines.
Now everything looks like an F117 fighter jet, or with body cut-outs like that yellow one up a few threads.
I was behind a C8 Corvette the other day; the first time I saw one in the flesh. As ugly like an Pontiac Aztec.
If I got a Vette, I'd want a C6 which has nice flowing lines.
Good point.
Seems like cars went from curvy and sexy to edgy and angry.
Now that I think about it...I like sexy and curvy!!
04-25-2020, 07:56 PM
