invisiblewar

Ive always wondered how biased people can be with cars. Like how some people wont buy a car just because of the name, or where it was built.

My family is this way with american cars. I swear that they are blind to the fact that american cars are POS's. My whole entire family complains that imports are too small and uncomfortable and seem unsafe.

My brother actually thinks the caliber is a good car. Hes so damn brainwashed working in the union and will swear to only buy american, even if it means him having to spend more money on a worse car. he does not acknowledge the fact that american cars for the most part(with the exception to the performance divisions) are horrible. And when I ask him what he thinks about an import he just replies with some statement about how the quality seems to be cheap

my dad is like this but i do see an unbiased opinion come out of him after much debate. He rented an impala about a month ago to come up to visit me and said he hated every bit about the car. He said it was the worst car he had driven in a while.

Then my mom, not really a car person but the moment she hears that its an import her first sentence is that its too small. Every single time, even with my CL she says that its too small. She does drive a silverado so yes it does have something to do with her being unomfortable in a small car.

Sorry about this rant, just irritates me that some people can be so blind to a car. Ill be honest and Ive tried to like some domestics other than the few that are desired. hell I even like the cobalt in turbo form and its HHR counterpart. I just cant get past the fact that people still do believe that domestic cars are still leading the way in design and quality especially since they are family

invisiblewar

Also, I like alot of american cars and think they have come along way in the last few years. But the fact is that in no way are most american cars on par with their rivals oversea

Mr. Incredible

all depends on your point of view...

Freedom to Choose.. one of the founding principles of our nation... doesn't matter if your reasoning for said choice is flawed, you have the freedom to make that choice..


All I have ever owned is American "made" cars

Pontiac
Chevy
Ford
Chrysler

I will never again buy a Ford, I owned 2 they were different models and were both dogs..

Chevy I have no issues with, I have had 4 of them and they have all been solid decent vehicle for what they were (trucks)

Chrysler, well Chrysler is so far behind in their mentality that though I love my 300C I will not be returning to Chrysler again..


I am now looking and will be getting an Acura...

why?

because technology wise it is light years beyond anything any American car company makes, and resell value has become important to me..

LuvMyTSX

My parents used to be like that - buying only American - but now they have a Civic in the garage and like it a lot. They are still kind of lost on the details because they are not car people, so they just don't notice things like material quality or even a refined engine vs. unrefined engine. My parents by vehicles for A to B transportation and that is all.

dallison

One of my parents will only buy fords, but i am assuming he was a ford guy growing up. They seemed to last a pretty long time, except for head gaskets, hubs and bearings, they seemed pretty good.

My uncle had chryslers and gms. Once he saw that i couldn't kill my toyota camry, he bought one and then he bought an accord.


I have had domestics and will never buy one again, but then again they werent close to new either.

Ken1997TL

If the unions were abolished and the workers paid realistic wages for the actual work they do, the cars would be either IMO:

A) Cheaper by several thousand dollars
B) Much higher quality interiors/materials thanks to the savings

Either way, they'd be much better able to compete. Something that should have been done ten years ago. Oh well..

Moog-Type-S

I disagree with this statement.

I think Ford vehicle quality as of late is on par this the Asian imports.
A good amount of "domestic" GM vehicles as of late are on par with the imports.
A the "import" GM vehicles (Holden, Opel) seem to be of excellent quality.

Chyrsler....not so much.

tftimm

Great point. This doesn't help the U.S. automakers competativeness.

Costco

I think Ford and GM has made leaps and bounds in terms of quality. They're getting there but I still would be hard pressed to get an Accord over a Malibu, though its a very close comparison, as opposed to the Accord vs. Taurus maybe 10 years ago - no comparison.

American cars in general cater to a different crowd than what the imports do, it seems. They still have that soft ride and compliant suspension tuning as opposed to good handling. Even though my car is great for what I paid for it, I knew before I even bought it that it doesn't even come close to the quality that other cars did in that same time frame. For a sports car, IMO you can't go wrong with a domestic, but for a daily driver family-car type vehicle, I'd prefer an import. But honestly my bias doesn't really swing in either particular direction, since I literally like all cars.

There's biased people for every segment though. My mom and sister would probably never get a domestic and I understand why.

Ken1997TL

Umm sure it will/would have. Their biggest problems over the years is legacy costs for health care and retirement.

Cut costs per car by a couple thousand dollars and you're able to be more competitive.


And back on topic, Ford has made some huge improvements. I'd take most Ford products over anything Toyota has for example.

invisiblewar

I admit that ford and chevy have made improvements, huge ones at that especially ford, gm isnt too far behind. I didnt mean that i think they are pieces of crap because if i could get behind the wheel of certain domestics I would be there instantly (I love the new fusion and the saturn astra)

my dad and brother are definately car people. Shit cars have been in my dads family since cars have been around basically. family owned a shop in the 70-80s. in fact my great grandfather built a car from the ground up and went from tampa to miami when his family made that move.

Just bothers me that they are car people but cant appreciate a car because of where its origins are. My brother always tells me how if i want to support japans economy and watch ours go to shit then thats fine with him, so effin backwards

Ken1997TL

I wonder what percentage of Honda is owned by American shareholders.. I imagine quite a bit.

JD23

My family is the complete opposite. After owning domestics until the early 80s and suffering through terrible reliability, my parents have been buying Japanese cars for the past 25 years and will likely never go back to the domestics. I realize that some domestic automakers have made strides in the past 10 years, but many people have been jaded by terrible experiences and will likely never go American again.

Costco

What kind of retarded shit is that? Quite a few Hondas, Toyotas, Nissan Acuras, etc. are designed and made here in the US and have been for quite a while now. Obviously it doesn't matter where its from, what matters is who designed it and how much time and money they had to do so.

Sarlacc

Supposedly when I sold Hondas in Ohio...they claim less than a penny of every dollar made goes back to Japan.

How true is that, I can't verify.

Sarlacc

The kind of retarded shit that silly and corrupt unions such as the UAW want everyone to believe. Helps take the focus off the fact they are the real enemy.

teranfon

I'm not entirely convinced that you can easily claim that your family has biases that don't allow them to experience an import branded car while you yourself make some pretty unfounded statements towards domestically branded cars.

Yes, the quality of the domestics was generally behind the imports for a number of years, but Ford and GM have improved their quality dramatically. I've never been a brand follower, but do have my own biases. I think some people choose American cars as they can identify with them more easily than foreign products. If your family doesn't want to try the imports there isn't much you can do about it. The same as those who refuse to try a domestic are also missing out on some great products as well.

Terry

Acuraluvr

iTrader: (2)

while i wont get into the debate, i just dislike closemindedness of people. while people may always have bias, i just appreciate good products, despite who made them.

Ashburner

I have absolutely no bias. You will find that the world is full of closed minded people- bigots, hypocrites, racists, radicals et cetra. Not as extreme of course but branding of cars fits in there.

Before I picked up my G8, I drove two Japanese (G37 and M45), Korean (Genesis), and German (Mercedes) and I just liked the G8 the best. Pretty simple. I gave away some features and gained some.

I have never owned a Ford but driven plenty mainly as rentals. I've always been a Camaro fan so Ford people used to piss me off. Not as much any more. I'm really liking some of their newer designs.

invisiblewar

i guess overall i exaggerated. I dont think american cars are horrible, i admit there are some that suck, mainly those being chryslers, who i honestly dont believe are trying to make an improvement. I know ford and GM are putting some nice cars out, i cant wait to see the cruze and SHO. I try not to have any bias but if i were to say i did, it would probably be more toward american cars. Just my small bias compared to their shutting the door, locking it and throwing away the key to imports is vast

teranfon

I think whatever one feels about Japanese cars, it's pretty hard to deny if it wasn't for them we'd still be driving subpar Chevettes and Escorts. I can remember the eighties when Japanese compacts became commonplace, and many people feeling they were basically disposable items. Until they drove one. True, they basically rusted away until the mechanicals gave out, but those same mechanicals ran for literally hundreds of thousands of kilometers, and with a road feel and preciseness not experienced before.

Rightly or wrongly, I've always been of the belief that the imports FORCED the domestics to become better manufacturers.

Terry

subinf

Or management learns how to negotiate and design cars that the consumers want.

subinf

As for the domestic issue - I've had both Ford and Toyota rental cars - nothing too fancy but I was much more impressed with the Ford. I would easily take the Focus over a Camry

CocheseUGA

It's really not about the consumers, as they still want the cars - as seen by an actual increase in Chrysler and GM car sales YTD (at least around here). You have to look at other factors, because that's not anywhere near the top of the list.

Acuraluvr

iTrader: (2)

Now this im surprised about. simply not because of brand, but well, i drove an older and new gen camry and was very impressed with the refinement in the car and the decent engines - both the 4 and 6 cyl.

rode in a focus and while didnt hear rattles, etc, the quality inside looked shotty, suspension wasnt nearly as good nor refined...

just saying... despite being in different class - apples to oranges

subinf

I meant Corolla. Don't know why I listed Camry.

I assume the Focus and Corolla are similar enough.

'01White3.2CL

same with my family...and with my dad: ALL FORDS!! nothing else!

then I bought my 3.2CL...and convinced my parents to buy a Honda Pilot a couple years later...they are slowly converting.

tmnhs81

Honda/Acura only here. Never had anything else.. I had a Ford F-150 as a rental for two days. I liked it. For me if I want a sedan/coupe I'd go Japanese/German and if needed work truck F150 or Silverado is the way to go.

PortlandRL

I don't have a prejudice against American cars, I simply buy what fits my wants and needs at a good price. This is why I like Hyundai so much. But when I worked for an Audi dealer, I moved a TON of rental cars, many of them American.

- Ford/Lincoln/Mercury: Probably the only American car I would buy. I really like the direction Ford is going and love the new Lincolns, especially the MKS.

- GM: Cadillac CTS-V, Pontiac G8, Chevrolet Camaro, or Corvette ONLY.

- Chrysler: Maybe a Viper and that's a big MAYBE. Nothing else; I had a rental Dodge Avenger for two weeks; uncomfortable seats, cheap interior, and poor quality materials. Chrysler would be at the very bottom of my list of vehicles to buy.

- Toyota: Fifteen years ago, absolutely. But the fact that their quality has slipped as of lately and they seem to believe they can skate by on their reputation alone.

- Audi: #1 on my list of German vehicles. Porsche would be #1 if I made more money.

Gfaze

My family was/is mainly a Ford family. Until a few years ago, that is all we had. They've been good to us but we started to try other cars and liked them too. Our lineup used to be a 98 F150, 91 E150, 95 Contour (the only Ford I hated, too many damn issues), 94 Thunderbird.

We still have the F150, no complaints but we had to replace the transmission at around 57K miles. We got the truck used at an auction so we suspect a lack of maintenance and some abuse by the previous owner was the main cause. It's still with us and still going strong.

The Thunderbird was mine and it was the most reliable car I've ever driven. Not once did that car leave me stranded, it only failed to start twice and both times the battery was shot. No smog issues, no performance issues, nothing. The transmission started going bad at about 149K miles when I sold it. The 4.6 V8 was bulletproof though, never any problems.

I will not comment on the Contour other than to say NEVER AGAIN!!!!

The E150 van was reliable, slow, but reliable. Only had minor issues with emissions related items but it ran great.

I moved on to a TL, my dad sold the E150 and got an 03 MB ML350, my sister got rid of the Contour and got a 97 BMW 328i, and my other sister got a 99 VW Passat. It's kind of funny how they all went the German route, not on purpose either, it just worked out that way.

I still intend to own an F150 in the future and possibly look at the 2010 Ford Taurus as a replacement for my aging TL. I am very impressed with Ford's improvement of their products. And even though I'm not a fan, GM's vehicles are making strides too. But I'm also considering a 3G TL so I might stick with Acura.

SouthernBoy

You beat me to it. He starts out his post as;

"Ive always wondered how biased people can be with cars. Like how some people wont buy a car just because of the name, or where it was built."

And then goes about showing hard biases against American cars. Interesting. I wonder how many people on this thread realize that both J.D.Power and Consumer Reports rank the Ford Fusion ahead of the Honda Accord and the Toyota Camry in quality? This doesn't surprise me at all. Three of the four Fords I've owned have been among the best and most reliable vehicles I have ever owned (I still own one of them). And of the three Honda products I've owned (my '04 and '05 TL and a '94 Accord EX), I got rid of the Accord two years after I bought it for a Ford Contour SE, which was a much better car.

I have no particular brand loyalty. I think such things are foolish and immature on the outside, and a way of cutting one's own throat on the inside. I prefer to first consider American because I am one. But I buy want suits my wants and needs at the time I am in the market. Really quite simple.

This is a topic we could argue adinfinitum and still never come to an agreed-upon conclusion. So I'll just beg out now.

SouthernBoy

I will say one thing, gentlemen. As this is a topic which can be fraught with visceral emotions, please remain civil to one another.

mrmako

I must agree with Terry, and our good friend SoutherBoy: The American cars have gotten a lot better over the past 10 years.

Cliffs: I owned the spectrum of cars. That being said, my bias is against cars that suck. That's it, end of the line.



A good quality car that can perform the way I like is what I will buy. And having owned an assortment of all types over the years, and each having their own strengths and weaknesses, has led me to believe you just go out and buy what you like, within your means. Here's the stable over the years:

2006 - present = 2006 (2008 US model) Subaru Legacy 3.0 R SpecB - Easily the most fun I have had with a 4 door sedan. not the most powerful car, but spritely none the less. And AWD is great. Some of the interior materials are a bit cheap, but not Chrysler cheap.

2004 - 2008 = 1999 Honda Saber (2G TL) This was really good to me. Very comfortable, and had a very nice ride. The only downer was the 4 speed tranny (as we all know had issues).

2005 - present = 2001 Honday Oddessy Minivan - great reliability, does the job and no real complaints. But it is underpowered (4 cylinder K23), and could use AWD.

1999 - 2004 = 1998 Volvo V70 2.5 NA - Non turbo model was a dream at high Autobahn speeds (yes, in Germany). Fit and finish was good, but not great.

1997 - 2004 = 1995 Chrysler LHS - A nice cruiser, but not really stable over 100 MPH. Had some wheel bearing and A/C issues throughout its life, but the car served me well.

1996 - 1999 = Audi 5000 Avant - Very rear heavy, inline 5 cylinder. Replaced a master cylinder, but ran really well. Another dependable car.

1990 - 1996 = 1994 Pontiac Grand Prix - The car had mild repair issues, but was a tank for me and a young family (over 175K before I gave it to my brother). The car was good to us, only stranded us once when a distributor cap disintegrated.

So 2 American, 2 European, and 3 Japanese. All of the vehicles were good in their own way. I think the next car I will buy (if in America) will be the 2009 CTS-V, and a Subaru Legacy or Audi A4 as a daily driver.

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

Pot...kettle...black.

Did you go back and read your post? It's funny you call your family biased, but calling American cars POS? And this nugget has been gathered from what quantitative data? I think maybe you're just pissed that your family doesn't think your way.

Oh and my next car will be an American car.

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

I have to agree with the Ford statement. They seem to be much better quality than I remember back in the early nineties.

Legend2TL

, great wisdom

SG81

iTrader: (1)

my dad use to only buy American cars. after owning American cars for over 30 years, he decided to try a Nissan. he liked it but then went back to GM after the lease. now he just bought an '09 Ford Escape and he really likes it (and so do i). the quality of it seems better than many new honda's i've been in lately and the gas mileage is great

chill_dog

Two of the three cars I've owned have been American, and I had no problems with either of them. If my plans hold true, my next car will be American. It's simply a function of what car most matches what I want and what I need at the time I'm buying. In fact, with each purchase, I've compared all comparable cars...always will. To rule out something just because is ignorant.

But there are ignorant people on both sides. Just like some people won't buy American because of the cars from the 80's/early 90's, some people won't buy Asian cars because they think of the Japanese cars from the 70's/early 80's. I don't understand it, but I don't worry about it, either. If that's how some people want to think and live, so be it; it's their life, not mine.

F23A4

Although I'm not "smitten" with the new new Camaro, with the specific quote above. (Chrysler just needs to be extinct already.)

More towards the thread topic, I've met folks who would NEVER consider a Honda Accord over say a Chevrolet Malibu. While that's totally beyond my comprehension, it's a free country I guess.

The quality, styling and engineering on many domestics have come a LONG way....to the extent that I would actually consider a 36 month lease on a new Ford Fusion V6. (And I would definitely consider Cadillac products if I were shopping Acura and Infiniti.) However, I'm still not at the point where I would consider buying say a used 2006 Ford Fusion V6 over a 2006 Honda Accord V6.

And honestly, if I were buying a four cylinder model of any make, it would be a Honda bar NONE!!! The K-series is the best four cylinder on the market and as much as I like Nissans (for example), I would be hard pressed to get a QR25DE Altima over a K24 Accord.

roushracin

I'm liking this thread because my father in law is BIASED towards foreign cars. He is a GM man! Since I've known my wife of 6 years, we've had a Nissan Murano, Lexus RX330, Acura TSX, Acura TL and now currently we have an '08 Camry SE and an '09 Acura MDX. And every time he heard of us buying these cars he'd get so pissed and start lecturing us about how we're not supporting the US blah blah blah whatever. He's a union man that works for Boeing so you can see why he's this way.

Now, before we bought the MDX, I talked to him and did drive the Chevy Trailblazer SS and even a Cadillac Escalade (which he has an Escalade ESV) and they were very nice..but I'm looking at the long haul here. His $65k Cadillac is only gonna be worth about half in 2 years where at least my MDX will hold it's value much better which is why we buy the foreign cars.

Now, I am a Ford man. I've owned about 6 Mustangs and a few pickups and today, Ford has improved dramatically. The new Fusion is AWESOME. And just wait for the Taurus SHO coming out later this year.

Once the Camry and MDX are paid off in a few years, I will be getting my '04 Terminator Cobra or a new Shelby Mustang! Can't Wait!!