nucleusTL

Hey I am About to purchase the Hybrid Accord. JUst wondering what you guys might have to say about it. Thanks

Always Dirty

Is the mileage that much better on it? I thought I read somewhere that it realistically only got in the low 30s.

doopstr

I think something like that would be good for me because you get great mileage on short trips. I think there isn't much advantage to having one it you do a lot of highway driving. I don’t really understand the whole hybrid technology but that’s something I’ve picked up from reading articles

tmk70

The Accord Hybrid has the highest HP rating of the entire Accord line and gets somewhat better mileage...and you get a tax break for owning a Hybrid. Go for it!

55M2G7L

yea pretty cool they made a hybrid v6

Always Dirty

True on the tax break - but what about all those big ugly solar panels all over it?

tmk70

Adam_Schwartz

That thing needs some dubs....pronto!

M TYPE X

:shakehead

Zapata

Thinking of getting one for my mother this fall.

ilitig8

Hybrids are an interesting cost benifit analysis. If you wanna go "green" it makes sense, period, though the Prius is "greener". For the extra oomph it is also a no brainer. If you are in it to save money it gets more interesting.

The savings in fuel will likely not "break even" for 200k+, usually significantly more, which does depend on whether it is highway or city miles. When you get out into that age/milage on the car you have the replacement battery pack issue, no hard data on cost (it should come way down) or how long it will last. Then you have resell if you don't run the car in the ground, it MAY bring a premium (in percentage over the same non-hybrid car) but then again higher trim levels usually hold less value than lower ones, percentage wise, also consider that given it is a new and quickly changing technology, it may be considered very outdated in 3-4 years and depreciate more than a gas car. Then you have to add in the tax issues which may make up some of the potential negatives.

Bottom line most "experts" say if you are looking for mainly economy reasons hybrids aren't a good bet.

I did test drive a hybrid Accord, wouldn't have known it wasn't a higher HP gas engine. The quirks are so small you will never notice them. Great car, though it may not save you money.

Vandy

wipe0ut

i heard that you need to own a hybrid car for like 20 years to make it payoff. i don't think that includes any tax breaks you get...but everyone has a different tax situation.

http://www.smartmoney.com/consumer/i...story=20031126

kevin79925

slap a turbo on it.

F23A4

Popular Mechanics did a cross country (NY-LA) test between a 7G Civic Hybrid and a 7G Civic EX.

Their conclusion: Over the entire trip, the Civic EX averaged 33.8 mpg. The Hybrid averaged 42.0 mpg. So, the hybrid technology was worth 8.2 mpg for our run. That's a 24 percent fuel economy gain. At New York and California prices (at the time we made the drive), we spent $168 to keep the EX in gas and $135 on the Hybrid, or a savings of $33 for 3065 miles--that's a penny a mile.

All said and done, if you were driving the same route, at the same speeds, in the same conditions, it would take roughly 144,000 miles before the Hybrid paid back its $1440 premium over the Civic EX.


Civic Hybrid vs Civic EX: 3,000 miles

That said, I'd be VERY interested in seeing a similar test between the Accord Hybrid, AV6 5AT and Accord K24A 5MT.

Zapata

Few things:

1- You start saving money right away. Yes, there is an outlay of cash into the purchase but the "investment" into a green car pays you back the first time you fill up.

2- Majority of these calculators use static gas prices. Notice gas prices keep going up????

3- 4 banger and 6 banger hybrids are entirely differenty animals. For those people who do city driving and still can achieve civic ex mileage rewards are immediate.

F23A4

Seeing as Popular Mechanics doesnt have a clue, maybe you should put out your your science rag and enlighten the rest of society with your omniscience.

Zapata

all valid points....just offereing What did i say that was wrong?

Zapata

NYC to San Diego. 2804miles, $2.00/gallon

Accord EX v6= $199 @ 29mpg
Accord EX hybrid= $151 @37mpg


1995-2005 gas has gone up 48% in cost.
1990-2005 gas hase gone up 66% in cost.

10year projection assuming linear growth and low end 48% increase in gas prices the same trip from NYC to SA. $2.00 to $2.96. There isn't anything that would indicate a decrease in gas prices with India and China industrializing and the demand for petrochemicals only going to increase:

fuel costs for 2804 miles
EX v6: $286
Hybrid: $224

20k/year fuel costs

EX V6: 2036.32
HYBRID: 1594.88


Now this is assuming higway driving only. The payoff comes to those do do local and city driving because your savings are amplified. Fuel efficiency decreases from HIGHWAY to CITY. But the increase for hyrid cars in CITY driving is nearly 39%.

Savings costs are multiplied yearly and corrections need to be made for gas increases.

in the end....if you assume consistent gas prices then fine, you save little to nothing but calculating for v6 engine with historical increases in gas prices you do start saving money right away and it only increases.

F23A4

...gotta lighten up man. PM made a specific analysis based upon a cross country trip, ultimately concluding that the Hybrid 4 will save money in time.

As for Hybrid saving money right away, that all depends on how you look at it. If I've unloaded $5k-$7k extra for a Hybrid Accord over an AV6, that premium is not paid for at the first fill up. The Hybrid premium doesnt pay for itself until the savings and tax breaks for buying the hybrid (over the AV6, for example) exceeds the premium paid for it initially over the purchase cost/gas useage of said AV6.

If you want to believe that executing that second fill up (~$27 w/93 Oct) two days later (than with the AV6) justifies the $5k premium at the moment of that fill up then to each his own. (Though not worded as such, I do think you mean that the Hybrid starts to gain ROI upon the first fill up, which I agree with.)

(I wont even go into the dynamics of price elasticity on petroleum products.)

Sorry to be long winded...wife & I work in finance (Accounting and FI Securities, respectively) so such is our mindset.

Zapata

no i agree with you 100%, the immediately financial justification is impossible to make without taking large increases in gas prices.

F23A4

...would be cool if to see IMA on a K20A2 though.

nucleusTL

Wow 21 responses. but no one has one yet I guess. I was going to get mine within the next two weeks. I am having a hard time deciding. I was also looking at the Toyota Prius. I do love hondas. Based on these responses This car is not a sure bet. Well thanks for your info.

Zapata

how is it not a sure bet? Of course it is......tons of power, looks anonymous etc.,

vishnus11

compared to the prius, this thing has got power to boot and gets decent gas mileage. And the realworld mileage the prius seems to be giving is no where near EPA estimates - at least thats what the magazine long term testers say.

F23A4

How many Accord Hybrids are scheduled for production??

Zapata

20k?

teranfon

Purchased one for my mother about two months ago. So far she really enjoys it. Currently she has close to 2500 kilometers on it without a worry. Its very seamless from elec./3 cylinder to elec/6 cylinder. Many interesting features such as some aluminum panels and thinner glass. Unfortunately the hybrids do not have a power roof. At the same time a purchased a six speed coupe for myself, and that damn hybrid feels almost as quick. Was it worth the premium in price? Absolutely. She may have to drive it for a while to offset the additional cost, but the performance, along with additional mileage, certainly makes it a winner.

Terry

F23A4

I know it saves some weight but Honda should have included a power sunroof for the AHV6.

04acura tl

21 to 30 mpg for 29k
or
29 to 37 mpg for 32k green car
according to carpoint
ya gotta think how long it will take to make up the difference in the extra 3k your spending on the car price. So you figure you going to be getting at least an extra 7 to 8 mpg with the green car. I think you will be happier with the hybrid car right off the bat, you'll be getting at least another 100 miles from a tank gas out of the hybrid right away

ilitig8

You can't just see it as a gas price issue!

1. you have the time value of money, the loss of use/income from the extra money if you pay cash, extra cost of finacing or lease

2. resell, can be boon or bust, when you sell hybrids may be HOT in the used car arena, then again they may be cold for a number of reasons (new tech, reliability problems)

3. if you plan to keep outside warranty you have the unknown issues, not the least of which is battery packs (which will also have an effect on resell since it to some extent is "consumable"

4. the premium you MAY pay for the hybrid in actual transaction cost, example (actual over the curb cost of the hybrid car, it will likely have less discount and maybe a premium) - (actual over the curb price of gas car) + (income tax savings for the individual person) the above equation includes the higher sales tax on the hybrid (in most states, some have caps which would likely leave both paying the same) but does not consider states where property tax is paid on cars and is usually based on MSRP and depreciation which will be more on the hybrid initially but may change depending on which depreciates more quickly

5. extra cost of insurance (hybrid rates MAY be higher due to higher cost of car and higher HP in the case of the Accord)

6. possible extra cost of maintaining the hybrid car

This is just a few issues I thought off the top of my head. The bottom line is without a crystal ball it is impossible to know which will be the better purely finacial decision, however we have tons of statistical data regarding the long term costs of owning a gasoline car and have virtually none regarding hybrids. In all likelyhood a hybrid bought today and kept for any resonable time will not be a significant savings over the similar gas car there are just too many variables.

It is also true for some the extra performance and/or green factor may outweigh any cost of ownership premium. Further the gas price increases go and come and is has significantly variable depending on where you live, so it may be cheaper to own the hybrid in LA and cheaper to own the gas Accord in ATL...as always YMMV.

Vandy

ilitig8

A word about the tax issue.



Clean-Fuel Vehicle Deduction Available for Certain Models

The original purchaser of a qualifying hybrid gas-electric car may deduct $2,000 for the year the vehicle is first used, if that year is before 2006. In 2006, the deduction is scheduled to drop to $500.

These vehicles qualify for the clean-fuel vehicle deduction:

Ford Escape Hybrid — Model Year 2005
Toyota Prius — Model Years 2001 through 2005
Honda Insight — Model Years 2000 through 2005
Honda Civic Hybrid — Model Years 2003 and 2005
Honda Accord Hybrid — Model Year 2005



The above is taken from the IRS website, keep in mind this is a deduction and will have a variable effect depending on your tax situation (higher brakets get more savings, but it will never be the full 2k). This may be compounded depending on your states income tax laws and your bracket there and the way they treat federal deductions. There are some states that offer state deductions but I think Colorado offers a credit, which again depending on your situation will vary.

Vandy

F23A4

Well stated!!! That's what I was getting at in one of my earlier posts.

sauceman

I would LOVE to own one. And yes, I do mostly highway miles. But what I believe is understated is the variable cylinder technology.

The hybrid is economical on BOTH highway and city. These two features complement themselves.

I have to agree though that the long-term maintenance costs of the batteries is worrying. Having the possibility to choose, I'd go with BMW's hydrogen program, as it is 0 emissions.