knight rider

iTrader: (1)

So, I'm driving down the street and saw something very normal and uneventful that surprisingly evoked two or three thoughts in as many seconds. Have you ever had that happen to you? Anyway. I saw a guy driving a circa 2001 S Class Mercedes with temporary tags and thought, "what's the point?" Here me out. What I meant by "what's the point?" is that automobiles such as the S Class, 7 Series and the like are status symbols. When you drive a new "prestige" car you are making a statement. That statement; I am fairly financially well-to-do. This is not for all owners, but follow me into my twisted logic.

My second thought was, "I wonder if he believes that he's making a statement with his 14 year old Benz?" My third thought was, "I hope he can afford the maintenance". I know. I have issues.

As I pondered my thoughts more it made me think about car leasing. I'm not a big fan of it but you know, when an S Class Benz (or the like) gets old it doesn't hold the same prestige as when it was one to (say) five years old. So to keep up the aura of wealth one could lease the Benz and trade it in for the newer model every few years. Just saying. IMO, buying a >10 year old prestige car is not prestigious, and it is expensive in the long run. Therefore, it is pointless.

My "prestige theory" does not hold true for exotics or higher eschelon automobiles like Aston Martins, Bentleys, Rolls Royces, etc... There is a fine line between an everyday expensive car and a truly prestigious car. I think that difference makes all the difference as the car ages. My theory also doesn't hold true for the guy who brought a new S Class 10 years ago and is deciding to keep it, and is not trying to make a statement.

I guess what I'm gettng at is that owning a relatively old status car seems slightly misplaced. I know some people have probably waited years to be able to afford one, but at that point is it worth it? And, is an old S Class (or the like) still impressive?

ttribe

Do the cars still hold prestige? Among the people originally intended, no, probably not.

What's the point? I suppose that's up to the buyer. If they enjoy the car, then there's a point.

SamDoe1

Here's my take on it:
All of what you just said is your view on the car and likely the view of some enthusiasts.

Here's my point:
95% of car buyers are not enthusiasts. To those 95% of car buyers, that 2001 S class might as well be a 2016 S class since they don't even know the difference. All they see is S500 on the trunk and the three pointed star on the hood and assume the car cost the driver $100k.

I thought about grabbing a W220 S class myself because they have depreciated so much that you can grab a 2001-2003 S500 for ~$5k-$7k in good condition. Remember that this is still a $100k car when it was new and you can now get it for less than a tenth of its original cost. Additionally, the W220 S class was made in the era when Mercedes still gave a damn about quality and less about profit margins and is therefore built like a tank. Aside from the problematic Airmatic suspension, the car itself is rock solid. Now you can buy aftermarket air springs that pop right in for a quarter of the cost of new MB parts.

I'll leave you with some light reading:
5 Things No One Tells You About Owning A Used Luxury Car

honda_nut

If the guy is an enthusiast and has wanted that particular model, then props to him. And maybe even to the guy that bought it new and is squeezing every penny's worth out of it.

But buying a dirt cheap S class, 7-series, Range Rover, etc to impress others really does not say anything other than he has confidence issues and is not wise with his money. I'd be more impressed by a new Civic or an Accord than that so called prestigious car.

ThermonMermon

Agreed. In the off chance you're an enthusiast, then it's understandable. If you're not, then, IMO, you're not joining the club of 100k owners by getting into a 20 yr old used version for 10k.

And you're not impressing anyone if your age is not 30-35 plus the age of the car, because then it's obvious you have not owned the car since it was new/newer. I.e. 60 yr old man driving big body Benz, on the surface, he's in the club. 35 year old, driving same early 90s Benz, yeah, he's not in the club.

For the actual enthusiasts , however, if your not seeking the status, but the actual car itself, then status quo doesn't really apply. They are seeking the car, not the status that may come along with it.

Legend2TL

+1, I admire folks who buy high German cars and keep them running. It can be a exercise in futility but if you do your own work and know where to look for parts it can also be a surprisingly affordable.

As for the W220 01 500SEL, great car to drive but that's a pretty bad period for MB reliability and quality (CEO Schrempp even noted that in one of his speeches in early 2000's). Mid 90's to early 00's MB are best avoided.

SamDoe1

wat?

The W220 is considered to be one of the most reliable ones you can get provided you don't get the active body control system. Only major issue is the airmatic, otherwise it works like a german clock.

NBP04TL4ME

Maybe the guy driving the Benz has owned it since new and really likes it? May not be a prestige thing at all or it was 14 years ago and now he just enjoys driving it.

mvp2765

iTrader: (1)

You dont really know his situation. Maybe he purchased it off family or a friend. Maybe he got it for a steal. Maybe he's always wanted that car and can now afford it because depreciation has taken it's toll. I love older cars and don't see anything wrong with this. If he bought this car purely for status, he's not impressing anyone.

Legend2TL

They're known to be hit and miss for reliability, some are garage queens and some are pretty solid. As for problems, wiring harness's that disolve over time, climate control woes, electronic gremlins.... Solid chassis, motor (dual plug/3 valve) and gearbox but they're overall reliability is why they and E65's are cheap to buy. Again Schrempp berated MB when he was CEO over the reliability problems with their cars of that era (late 90's early 00's), similar to Montezemolo's calling out Ferrari when he took over in the early 90's.

HondaGuy347

I think there's a TON of prestige and cool factor in buying a car new and keeping it a long, long time, much more so than the guy who just leases a new whatever every 2-3 years. I probably feel this way because that's what I grew up seeing, all the old money in CT driving 10 year old MB S, E, and SLs that they'd had for 10 years. Sometimes I read FerrariChat and I always think the guys who bought 308s and 328s and TRs new and are still driving them are cooler than the guys who buy every new Ferrari that comes out.

But the guys with the half-dead, poor-condition D-class sedans that are obviously one breakdown away from being traded, having been bought at a BHPH lot? Yeah, not cool.

Chief F1 Fan

It's why financially smart people drive their cars until the wheels fall off of them. That's why those old "prestige" cars on the road still. Sometimes it's just some wannabe who picks up a 2 generation old luxe-barge to impress people.

SamDoe1

fixed...

But I agree. It's super cool to be the original owner of an iconic car like that.

Unfortunately, upper end luxury sedans are almost all leased and the depreciation because of it is epic.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

<p>Agreed on all points. &nbsp;</p><p>I will say that I do know people who have done this to impress people, but 9.9 times out of 10, no one is impressed. &nbsp;I also feel bad for people who have to do that. &nbsp;All little bit anyway. &nbsp;OK, not really. &nbsp;But you get the point.&nbsp;</p><p>Now the people who buy the car b/c they want the car... that's a different story and more power to them. &nbsp;Similar to how I bought the Porsche. &nbsp;Always wanted a 911, got a good deal on a 996 Cabrio that was upgraded the way I liked, so I bought it. &nbsp;I didn't give a damn about what anyone thought... I wanted it for me. &nbsp;When I had my fill, I sold it. &nbsp;I'm sure there are a lot of people who do that and this S-class owner/driver may be one of them. &nbsp;I won't judge b/c I don't care. &nbsp;How he spends his own money and why he spends his money the way he does is his business... &nbsp;<img alt="" src="https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif" title="Smile" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p>

SuperTrooper169

iTrader: (2)

Very interesting observation and discussion. I'd totally rock an older BMW 8 series coupe or an E55, but not because I'd be looking to impress anyone, simply because they're both awesome cars. Like someone else said already, it really comes down to the owner, whether or not he or she is an enthusiast or a wannabee. Regardless though prestige only effects those who care about that type of thinking. If you hang around in that kind of circle of people then you'll likely not be fooling anyone.

HondaGuy347

Very true, but the good news is those cars still can be fixed by a guy in his garage with a halfway decent set of tools and a general working knowledge (and an internet connection) of the cars. A lift helps, too.

Plus no one will balk if your 30 year old Ferrari wasn't only touched by the Ferrari dealer, unlike a new 599 or whatever, which needs $$$$$ electronic equipment to help keep it on the road.

myron

iTrader: (4)

This is how I look at it too

SamDoe1

Oh I completely agree and a 30 year old Ferrari still turns heads (sometimes more than a new one). Same goes for older Porsches, you can DIY a lot of the work for a lot less than paying someone else. The only thing that one should pay for is those silly engine out services that require a lot of experience and time.

The only downside is that there is a LOT of work to do to keep these on the road.

Booya4139

I have a family member with an 02 911, and it sounds like besides expensive tires and fluid changes it really hasn't need a ton of maintenance.

SamDoe1

Then he/she isn't doing the recommended maintenance intervals or not putting a lot of miles on it. Maintenance is different than repairs though. Repairs are a whole different story.

Also, has he/she replaced the IMS bearing with something that won't grenade his/her engine?

black label

The people in car talk on azine are not a good representation of average automotive knowledge. Most people don't know Benz is 10 years old unless it's beat up looking.

When I sold cars in nh where dealers can sell as is, we called them "ballin on a budget" cars. Lots of 18-23 year olds want to be driving a 5 series or an S class but can only afford ones with 100k plus miles on them, also note that 18-23 year olds don't make the best financial decisions.

4cruizn

ABSOLUTELY. Old cars still hold a ton of prestige when they are well preserved. It speaks to the level of care and pride that the owners have taken in maintaining it. I get way more compliments on my 21-year-old Acura Legend than I do in my 2-year-old Acura ILX.

RPhilMan1

That's because it looks so much better than the ILX.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

<p>Yeah, my 996 was an '02 and in the 14 months or so I owned it, only had to change the oil. &nbsp;Maintenance was low but granted it was a weekend car, so I did not put a lot of miles on it. &nbsp;Even so those older 911's are very easy to work on yourself, so maintenance costs are not that bad.</p>

CAgine

Whats the point? Same reason why people are willingly to by an E46 BMW or a 20 year old Acura NSX or even a 2003 350z.

2K2SilverTL-S

People who have old luxe barges really vary....from those who've had them since new, to those who are posers, to those that are enthusiasts who always wanted one. I usually tell the posers with S-classes in NJ by the "vampire stare" with one arm cocked at 12 O'clock as I pass them in my new S550

HondaGuy347

I would argue it's much more likely that the buyer of an older BMW, NSX, or 350Z is buying a car for the "right" reasons (because they WANT it) than the buyer of an old S-Class or 7-series (because they want to impress people).

There are exceptions, I understand some people are fans of older D-class sedans (if I came across a mint E38 7-series or W140 MB I'd be tempted), but the reality is most are not, they're just looking to "be ballin' on a budget".

00TL-P3.2

^ Agreed, but I'd take a W126 over a W140.
Still miss my 300SD, and even my W123 240D, the latter being the slowest car I've ever driven. But it was immaculate.

Yumcha

and @ Acura Legend...

shahram72

If it's cared for it always has status as a nice car. I got lots more respect for a working man doing the best he can than someone who just signs and drives a $100K car. Now I often wonder the same as the original owner when I see old Mercedes. How the hell can they afford the upkeep? My parents had several. they are a nightmare after the warranty expires.

PortlandRL

Mother effin' . I don't buy my cars to impress others, just me.

I'd love to have a clean E38 7-Series or W140 S500.

wackjum

People get too swept up in the new. At one point, that car was $100k and was built with the luxury and craftsmanship appropriate for that price point.

Sure new stuff might be faster, shinier, and have more cushy features. But that doesn't change the fact that at one point people thought that car was great. Humans don't evolve so that same experience in 2000 is relevant today.

I actually have a 2001 S430. I picked it up for really cheap from a friend who was going to get beans trading it in. I bought it, did some repairs, and gave it to my parents. It is still a very cushy mattress in a bank vault going down the road.

I also have a 2004 911 Turbo with some light mods that gets about 480 HP. 480 HP accelerating down the road is a sensation that feels just as awesome today as it probably did to the original owner in 2004.

Crazy Bimmer

Love me some old cars, they tend to have more character than the new ones.

Yes, im getting old.

csmeance

My 760 drives way better than any car I have driven. With that said, it's cost upwards of 55K to keep running in repair costs + tires, fuel, brakes, etc. The Older S-Classes, A8's, etc drive way better than my 2010 accord and have HID's cooled and heated seats, etc.

In any case, car buyers are people looking to spend not invest money. I'd love to drive my 760 everywhere but it's do damn expensive to do so!

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

<p> <img alt="" src="https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif" title="Eek" /> &nbsp;Typo? &nbsp;I hope so b/c at that point you're better off driving it into the ground, saving that money, and getting a new one <img alt="" src="https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif" title="Smile" /><br /><br />Our E350 has been out of warranty for about 2.5 years now or so and it costs us ~$500 for maintenance annually plus tires every 2-3 years or so (bought it in Jan of 2011, about to put our second set of tires on). &nbsp;She is due for brakes soon, so that will change that number... but brakes are not an annual maintenance item, so I'm not worried about that and we know it's coming. &nbsp;As for fuel economy... it gets the best of any in the garage at 25-27mph, higher when all highway cruising...</p>

SamDoe1

ho lee fuk.

That is not even worth the trouble to keep it running.

ttribe

$55,000? Was the entire drivetrain replaced, plus the car repainted, plus the entire interior re-done, plus a completely new suspension, plus gold plating the dash? That number just doesn't make any sense.

CAgine

but how can one automatically assume buying an older S class or 7 series means balling on a budget? Both those vehicles are still very nice and probably drive better than a lot of the newer cars on the market now.

It's no different for someone buy an older Acura/Infiniti/Lexus etc, there are many reasons why someone would buy an older car, not just to impress other people

HondaGuy347

For one thing, a lot of times you see them in relative disrepair (lots of bumper scuffs, cheap mods, sagging suspension, bad tint, etc) which tells me the person doesn't necessarily care about having a nice car, they care about having a nice badge. Yeah, the guy with the clean, well maintained one? Enthusiast. How many of those do you REALLY see? And it's the same for scruffy Acura/Infiniti/Lexuses as well.

knight rider

iTrader: (1)

this.