vkick

Hey Everyone,

I have friend who just love Japanese 'stuff', especially cars, and I think he gives Japanese car companies too much credit. He would talk about how great the steering response, braking, handling, etc is better on some Japanese car. And he hates Europeans cars because of their poor 'build quality'. He claims that Euro car companies cut too many corners to save on production cost. They cut areas where a 'typical' customer (one who does not do their own maintenance) will not see. For instance, he stated the current 3-series uses a sliding caliper to save on cost. What does everyone think about this, especially those who turn a wrench?

Costco

Who gives a crap if it's a sliding caliper, as long as it does its job the same as the old part or better.

IMO domestic brands cut more corners than anything, not exactly sure if its the case now.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Yeah they do. But your friend is suffering from fanboyism if he thinks the Europeans cut any more corners than the Japanese do.

Hapa DC5

I feel ALL manufacturers cut corners. If anything the Euros tend to over engineer their cars from what I've seen. Just look at their hinges...

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

The doors on my Audi are 10x more solid than any of the cars my family has owned (Honda, Acura, Lexus, Nissan)

d-townhakuzo

It is in all markets. IMO, it is Americans who do it the most. Europeans and Asians do it the same amount. Although in different areas.

PortlandRL

I've noticed the Koreans and Japanese tend to cheap out on plastics and interior trim. I've noticed that the Germans like to get chintzy with little fasteners that tend to get brittle and break with age but on that same note, they tend to over-complicate trivial things like cup holders. It's rather humorous. American cars are hit and miss on what's cheapened out on.

Costco

The one thing that bugs me the most is when a car is designed with seemingly no attempt to make it easy to work on. Why the hell you would rivet or weld a likely maintenance item like a window motor/regulator is beyond me. Or put two spark plugs so far back that you'd almost need to pull out the radio to change them. Or use two hex head bolts and then two torx bolts for the shock mount. WTF???

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

That is nuts.

F23A4

I definitely prefer Japanese cars over German and American makes but all makes cut corners in some way(s). I recently sat in a new Toyota RAV4 V6 and felt that the interior materials were perplexingly sub par, leaving me none to optimistic as to how it would wear over time.

All that said, Euro makes vary as much in quality as Japanese and American makes. Just as I wouldnt take a Galant or Sebring over an Accord or Fusion (respectively), I wouldnt get a 9-3 over and E90 neither....due mostly to quality (and styling, concomitantly)

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

and

Our Audi's have been more solid then any Japanese car we have owned...

Crazy Bimmer

I wish BMW would cut more corners and get rid of the electronic oil level sensor.

Give me back my dip stick.

Otherwise the car is fairly easy to work on. Changing pads are easy and hell, the oil filter is on top so you dont even need to get under the car to replace it. Pop the hood and its right in front of you.

TS_eXpeed

fsttyms1

ankur914

In the case of the sliding calipers, theres a difference in "cutting corners" and "designing with efficiency"...

Some define cutting corners as, for example, as reusing rebar in a concrete foundation or spacing wall studs 20 inches, rather than 16 inches apart, etc. Using inferior plastics would probably fall into this category. The bimmer sliding caliper is just fine for that car.

csmeance

all manufactures have to cut corners to an extent to make the car profitable while appealing! Most Japanese companies cut it some things such as the "feeling of heavy doors" or on the way something is assembled so it's cheaper to make and faster to put on. Germans tend to cut corners on some of the obvious things such as using painted plastic trim panels that getting a solid plastic panel that is dyed when molded.

IMO most newer cars from Europe I would say are safer than American cars, TUV standards are no joke.

vkick

thanx everyone for your comments and experience.

evilone

at least I know that BMW cut corners on my door latch because I can see it. ( the latch I mean)

CL6

Japanese are good with computers and stuff so they know best how to engineer something within half a percent of its life. Krauts cut costs, too, they just don't cut as many.

Don't believe me look at the underside of a Jap vs. Kraut car. Hell, Acura uses pieces of foam in the corners of the MDX doors!

Rick_TL-S

This is nothing new. Even Ferrari cuts corners with a few Fiat parts. The only way not to cut corners is to end up building a car that will be priced waaay out of the market it's in & cars it'll be competing against, ala McLaren & Bugatti. But even then, it'll be incredibly hard to make a profit off it.


Honestly, BMW doing that is nothing compared to what the Big 3 do, going as far as to engineer 2 cars that are 90% identically, but overcharging you for the bigger one.

Shift_Acura

All manufacturers cut corners to save cost. In fact Japanese brands seem to be doing it more than domestic and European brands lately

SpiderX1016

Let me guess, your friend loves JDM too?

They're [manufacturers] out there to make money.

dallison

they all do it, some are more obvious.

vkick

yep. usually i just hear him, and i try not to listen, especially since he believes internet explorer 8 is the best thing since sliced bread. however, there are times i start to listen, so i got curious about this topic. i'm not surprise that all car companies cut corners. and it is probably difficult to say a japanese car is japanese because parts and even design come from all around the world. thanx everyone.

Moog-Type-S

mrmako

Um, I hope you don't mean Toyota....

All companies do it, and it's OK as long as the final product doesn't suffer for it. Having owned cars from and lived in the USA, Europe, and Japan, I would say that the European cars are a bit more stout. More "sold" as some say.

ghttf

on the freaking cupholders, yes.


otherwise not really

SpiderX1016

I don't see many entry level cars (less than $30k) with Fixed Calipers anyway.

Like any average guy is going to need it.

knight rider

iTrader: (1)

...what everybody else said.

btw, if anyone else besides me did not know what a sliding caliper was here ya go.

source: howstuffworks.com

"There are two main types of calipers: floating (or sliding) calipers and fixed calipers. Floating calipers move in and out relative to the rotor and have one or two pistons only on the inboard side of the rotor. This piston pushes the entire caliper when the brakes are applied, creating friction from the brake pads on both sides of the rotor. Fixed calipers, as the name implies, don't move, but rather have pistons arranged on opposing sides of the rotor. Fixed calipers are generally preferred for their performance, but are more expensive than the floating kind. Some high-performance fixed calipers have two or more pairs of pistons (or "pots") arranged on each side of the rotor -- some have as many as six pairs total."

Sarlacc

Take apart a bimmer (maybe even an audi) but I know for a fact bimmer...and you will see how amazingly well thought out the car was designed from the ground up...for the smart and cared handling of how wires are loomed and are run to just how things are engineered to piece together. Its very smart and well thought out. And its very clean and easy to know what is what.

Its pretty amazing, and how it should be done.

NWSTL

knavinusa

Apparently the sunshade latches in my car are bound to fail. But I suppose that's better than a stuck gas pedal.

In terms of overall quality I agree that the Germans build cars that feel more "complete". Small details like the sound the doors and trunk make, the weighting of the door stops, the feel of the radio/AC controls when you click on them, etc. sound and feel more upscale compared to my TL.

Ken1997TL

Everyone cuts corners, its the nature of business. Its all about how many corners they cut, how much they were cut and how that affects the car (and you).

I will say this.. Mercedes especially cut corners after Lexus came out. They were solid and reliable cars before they 'cheapened' them.

knight rider

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, that is true. The late 90's, Early 2000's were a dark period for Merc. There was a big push from Merc to get back to quality about 2-3 years ago.

CL6

Well the biggest issue was the f-up with parts suppliers. Nobody knew what was going on. I was told that days before the E Class was to go into production the supplier of the HVAC was changed and, yup, all those cars had nothing but problems with their HVAC controls.

Blazin Si

I've always associated Euro cars with quality. Mostly due to satisfying "thump" as the door shuts or the heavy steering that gives the car a very solid feel.

Most of those traits could be cheaply mimicked by other auto manufacturers. Seems as though it catch on until recently. Now the cars are loaded with tech or as Jeremy Clarkson puts it, "It's like driving an iPod".

princelybug

iTrader: (16)