I'm pretty much a car noob. I currently drive a 04 Accord 4cyl and it's pretty smooth compared to the 01 Corolla I had before. In a year I'll be able to get a nicer car and i'm looking at a Lexus IS350, 06 Acura TL auto, Audi 2.0TQuattro 6MT, or the rumored TL with SH-AWD and TSX with the 2.3T and SH-AWD. All those cars have either a V6 or a turbo 4cyl.

 

Cool. Now what?

 

I imagine a 6 cylinder will be smoother than an i-4 turbo... that is all.

 

Hm.. can't seem to edit the thread, but i intended for it to be a question not just a statement But I just wanted to ask what are the differences between a 6cyl and a 4cyl turbo

 

4 cylinder turbo = not as smooth, power delivery not as smooth, possibly less reliable

6 cylinder non-turbo = smoother, more low end power, more reliable

 

6-cyl= bitch to change spark plugs.

6-cyl= often has timing belt, which an run $700+ to do.

4-cyl turbo= might have turbo lag, probably requires premium.

 

pessimist

 

Seeing that he is looking to buy a NEW car, the plugs and belt are not an issue. Warranty will cover the belt, which shouldn't need replacing til after he has long traded the car in and not all 6 cylinder cars have hard to reach spark plugs.

 

I didn't know that he was only planning to keep the vehicle for a short period of time, but either way, Honda V6s are a PITA IMO to do plugs.

ps- meant to say can, not an.

 

in my 2gen TL, the plugs werent that bad. im a novice mechaincally, and i was able to do it in less than an hour...no big deal. def. not a reason not to buy a car lol

 

But many import vehicles also require valve adjustments...which can be quite time consuming on V6 models...

One more recent why I like domestics...

 

Ummm most C series and all J series V6's have hydraulic self-adjusting valves

 

reason* not recent, wtf is wrong w/me today.

Not sure what series the CL is, but the maint guide on a 03 CL says a valve adjustment is needed at 105k or whatever.

 

Stock for stock, Id take the V6.

But I <3 turbo.

 

tracerit, while they still do not have as linear a power delivery as comparable V6 motors, current turbo 4 cylinder motors have gone a LONG way. The power delivery on the Mazdaspeed6 (turbo 2.3L I4) I test drove felt as linear as the Altima SE-R (3.5L V6) and MUCH better than my old 1989 Colt GT Turbo.

 

Its a J32, interesting that it says that. I wonder if the manual is correct. My older C32 motor has self adjusting valves

 

4 cylinder turbo = lighter engine, possibly better weight distribution and handling

For the OP, it depends on what you're looking for in a car.

 

I'll give my input as soon as I find a more vague question.

 

Lots of negatives on 4cyl turbos.

Personally I love them. You get the horsepower of a V6, and usually significantly better mileage.

 

The gas mileage on turbo 4 cylinder motors are at best the same as the equivalent V6 but usually worse. Just for comparison, Fueleconomy.com shows the following annual fuel costs (2006 Model Year):

Nissan Altima 3.5L 5AT - $1,958
Hyundai Azera 3.8L 5AT - $2,049
Subaru Legacy 2.5GT 5MT - $2,192
Mazdaspeed6 6MT - $2,292

 

^^^ what do you mean by "4 cylinder motors are at best the same as the equivalent V6"

how can two motors be equivalent yet they have different # of cylinders and different displacement.

Are you referring to the hp/tq numbers?


Just my own comparison, the 3.2 A3 V6 gives you 21/27 mpg and the 2.0T A3 gives you 25/32 mpg! that's a big jump! However, their curb weights do differ by 330 lbs which is probably why the 2.0 gets so much better mileage. But some of that weight is due to the AWD system in addition to the larger engine.

Many people rave about the new 2.0T engine including myself. I'd choose that over the V6 A3 anyday.

 

i'd take a K-series turbo over a J-series V6! the VW 2.0T is very good, i just drove an Audi.

 

SodaLuvr, I don't know what stealerships you're going to, but $700 US for a timing belt?

My local Acura dealer charges $139.99 CDN for timing belt replacement. The Honda dealer is the same price. And here in Canada we have harsh conditions so we need to get them done every 100k km, which is almost half again more often than you need to. I never found the timing belt an expensive thing to do. In fact, I was in and out of there in just over an hour.

Usually, when I get my timing belts done, I get the other belts (power steering, AC) changed because they cost like $10-$30 each and they don't charge extra for the labour because they have to take them off anyway. I've never paid more than $240 or $250 for all that service on my old Acura, and I'm sure I won't on my new Accord with the J30A5 in it.

Engine tune ups only need to be done once in the life of the car usually, around 200000km (120k miles). If you have a car for that long, you're a rare version of a car enthusiast.

 

part of the 105K maintenance, or whenever they start making a racket (ticking)...

See note at the bottom of the right side of the page:

http://john-perry.com/acurazine/docu...aintenance.pdf

 

I had the valves adjusted and plugs replaced on my CL last year when I had my 105K service done. Also did the timing belt and water pump. I'm inching towards 139K now.

 

Being a car enthusiast has nothing to do with how long you own a car IMHO. you either like cars or you don't.

I don't consider you a TRUE car enthusiast because you can't afford to change your car every 2 years.

 

youngTL, is that on 4cly cars ??

Down here, it's not out of the ordinary to hear about $700-1200 (US) 105K maintenance charges from a dealer on the CL J32... Cheaper from a independent shop... That includes the water pump with is changed "while they are in there"...

The 105K maintenace cost might be a factor in when I get rid of my CL (50K miles now).

 

Just Curious, what was the cost on the 105K service (if you don't mind saying)... Acura dealer or independent shop ??

I guess I could search the CL forums, but I'm lazy tonight

 

I don't remember what I paid, but I do remember it was very expensive at the dealership. It was definetly more than $700. I'll try to find the receipt for it and PM you the cost and what I had done.

And before anyone rants about why I go to the stealership, for one thing I can afford to, secondly, I've been going to cerritos acura for 9+ years now and have never had a problem.

I've visited different independent shops and have always had problems with the quality of their work, or their diagnosis of my car.

 

Within the mid size class, some brands (i.e: Hyundai Azera/Nissan Altima 3.5L) have offerings that rely on large V6 motors to acheive certain performance goals versus other brands (Mazda Mazdaspeed6/Subaru Legacy 2.5GT) that offer boosted fours to fulfill the same mission. To wit, the large displacement V6 models typically have lower fuel costs than the boosted 4s. (ref:Fueleconomy.gov.)

The example of the A3 is not valid due to the fact that the 2.0T does not perform equivalent to the 3.2L and therefore is not comparable. (Exc. aftermarket mods) The A3 3.2L is a much quicker/faster car than the A3 2.0T. (Incidentally, I have also driven the A3 2.0T and have been fairly impressed with it.)

BTW: A better intra-model comparison would probably have been the Legacy 2.5GT (2.5T) vs the Legacy based Outback 3.0R Sedan (H6). Both have similar power output (250hp) with the Outback weighing about 100lbs more. Yet, the average fuel cost on the 3.0R is less than the 2.5GT (AT vs AT) and equal when AT (3.0R) vs MT (2.5GT).

All this said, the nature of turbochargers results in increased fuel consumption almost by definition of a turbocharger's mechanics.

 

This is another consideration in choosing a turbo. I know they've improved over the years, but turbocharged engines are under more strain than a normally aspirated engine: lots of heat, lots of pressure. Probably makes no difference if you don't hold on to it for too long.

 

I own both N/A V6 and a turbo 4 banger

Night and day difference between the two cars.

-If you commute longer than 30 minutes a day in traffic, the turbo 4 cylinder is not ideal.... manual makes it even worse.

-Very close gear ratios on the 4 banger, rev happy, get tired driving the car (legs/lower back gets soar driving M/T). Usually 4 cylinder turbo cars are sport compacts which doesnt help at all either.

If you like to cruise at high speeds ie: 80mph + on the highway, then the turbo 4 banger is not ideal ( im not sure about the audi/volkswagon ) if you want to go faster than 80mph you usually spool the turbo and boost = sh!tty gas milage

I never realized how great my TL was on the highway. The rpms stay very low, the transmission shifts flawlessy.... I pretty much almost forget that im driving the car which has its -/+.

Last but not least, for some damn reason turbo 4 cylinder cars are ricer magnets. People cutting you off, doing ricer fly bys etc... It gets attention from the wrong people, the ricers.

I drive my Evo on weekends usually when going local and I need to get somewhere fast. I commute in my TL to work 100 miles a day and I'm glad I didnt trade her in. I'd probably be considering selling my Evo if it was my only car to commute.

Oh yeah, maintenance on the turbo car is a bitch. Turbochargers usually shorten the life of your powertrain/drivetrain.

 

Go drive a turbo. The best way to describe it is imagine the gas pedal is connected to the engine via an elastic band. You press the gas and initially the elastic just stretches, and then it snaps into play. This can be annoying in stop and go traffic but it also provides a lot of fun factor on open roads.

 

No, it was that way for the 2.5TL and also the J30 engine in the Accord. I'm not sure of the J32, but I'm guessing it would be close to the Accord. That was the price without water pump though. In Canada, we change our timing belt twice in the time that we change the water pump once. If that's the case, then it means that the water pump is really the expensive part, but I was quoted $400 or so to change mine out on my old car.

 

For an Accord V6, the OE water pump is about $100, and adds about 1/2hr labor once the timing belt is already off. Add another $25-$30 for two gallons of Honda Type II Premix, so it generally adds about $200 to the timing belt job.

Just the timing belt alone usually runs about $500.

But to do a thorough job at 105k, you should be replacing the timing belt, water pump, drive belts, and perform a valve lash adjustment...which oftens adds up to about $1000. Not everyone replaces the tensioner, rollers, cam seals, etc...

 

Those things usually don't get replaced unless they're broken. That sounds about right for the labour, but the price on the timing belt is where I think you guys are getting ripped. I'll have to double check next time I'm at the Honda dealer. I'm pretty sure the OE belt isn't that expensive, at least last time I checked.

 

This is for an Accord V6:

Timing Belt= $43
Labor, 4.6 hrs @ $100/hr= $460

So $500 or so...

 

Same here except I drive a lower-powered 4G63 (2g Eclipse). The noise at 80 mph is tiring, but I did it to myself by adding a free-flowing intake, exhaust, bigger turbo, etc etc. Therefore I hear all the turbine noise, exhaust noise, BOV noise, you name it. I'm turning 3000 rpm at 70 mph due to the short gearing. Like you said, 30 minute commutes are the limit but it's all country backroads vice stop-and-go city traffic.

The TL accomplishes its tasks with much less drama. I'm turning what...2200 rpm(?)...at 80 mph, the car is sailing smoothly along, and not only can I hear the stereo, I'm basking in it.

Night and day.

 

4.6 hours?!

That labour rate is whack too. My local Honda dealerships all have rates of $85/hr CDN. That sounds more like an Acura rate. I believe they're $108/hr but I can't remember. I think you guys are getting screwed down there.

 

Acura is $140/hr in many major metropolitan areas...$100/hr is a guess. Independent shop is $92/hr so I'd say $100/hr is about right for most shops. Even the GM dealer is $100 here in Sacramento.

4.6hrs doesn't sound way out of line considering how big of a PITA it is to do the timing belt on a V6 Honda, but I could be wrong.

Heck for the prices you're quoting, I'm tempted to take a vacation up to Edmonton when it comes time to do my timing belt.