gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

I have a 2004 Honda Accord with 101,500 miles on it. I have told my wife for the past 12 months that my water pump and timing belt replacement has been coming up at about 105K miles. She does not believe me when I told her that we could pay $700 for a water pump and timing belt replacement, including labor, and have brand new parts, rather than pay $3,000 for a brand new engine once the water pump or timing belt fails.

For her satisfaction, what are the consequences of a timing belt and water pump failure?

iTimmy

Ultimately, engine failure, though that rarely happens. A lot of modern cars have moron proof features that will light up like a christmas tree and maybe even shut the car down before there is a problem. Further, if a H2O pump is run off the timing belt a leak is your biggest concern, and that is highly unlikely to happen on a Honda. If the timing belt breaks your car stops, over heating becomes a moot point.

That said it is better to be proactive with this sort of work, it's not that expensive and can save you the normal job, plus a tow bill, plus a lot of inconvenience. Then again some people roll the dice and never change a timing belt and never have an issue.

ChrisQ1980

The timing belt is more likely to fail than the water pump. That causes the engine to die/fail instantly. The water pump would cause an overheating problem. You would be able to pull over and save the engine from that. The timing belt is rubber, and it deteriorates. If that snaps pistons meet the valves destroying the engine.

You NEED to use genuine Honda parts for the replacement. The timing belt, timing belt tensioner, waterpump, coolant, and serpentine belt get replaced. You also need new spark plugs and a valve adjustment. Do those AFTER the timing belt service.

Try to find a honda mechanic, or small shop that works on Honda/Acura's as you won't pay as high a labor rate as the dealership, yet you still get OEM parts. Don't skimp on this, and get it done. Once you do these services, you have not much to worry about for another 100k.

phee

iTrader: (5)

your engine is interference.
that means a snapped timing belt will cause the pistons to hit the valves and basically ruin everything.







its kind if rare though and you can wait till 120k

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

explain to her what it means when a piston drives into a valve at 5000rpm, New heads, pistons, valves everything on the top end, and possibly stuff on the bottom end too if it's really bad. the water pump failing is not really the issue, if it fails you'll notice the temp gauge spike and can turn off the car etc. Timing belts just break and it's usually on a downshift, and goodbye engine. The design of the engine allows the valves to open far enough into the cylinder for the piston to strike it if the cam stops rotating thus the name interference. I don't think it's dangerous to run past the recommended interval, but how long do you feel like playing roulette for?

btw OEM parts + Indy mech is just as good as at the dealer, which sounds like the route your going. I did mine own on my old accord, but I don't suggest to many people to attempt this on their own because it's quite involved.

Mongolian

How often should one change the timing belt? I have 163k on my beating (2001 Honda Accord) and I believe I changed my timing belt prematurely last time. I changed it around 80k miles.

dallison

what itimmy said.....

dallison

the wife's 4runner is a non interference motor. I will let it go for a few more years before replacing it 115k

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

I'd wait till about 180.

Sarlacc

If your water pumps fails...your car will begin to overheat, so you will now and have time to react (pull over get a tow)

This happened to me twice. Once in my very 1st car (85 528) and in my current Pathfinder. (needed its 2nd WP and TB at 180,000) I was off in my math which is why it was just done.

If the timing belt should go it might be a different story. If that snaps...and its a 4cyl honda, its most likely going to slap and bend valves....bye bye engine.

dallison

the pathy has a tb, i thought it had a cahin, or did that start in 2000 or 2001?

achenator

tell your wife to worry about the vacumn cleaner and you'll worry about the car

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

I knew it was an overheating problem if the water pump failed. I also explained to her that it was catostrophic engine failure if the timing belt went. She basically said, "Well, we'd save $1,000 in not having it done now, and we'd save money and pay $3,000 for new engine replacement when it (the timing belt) does fail."

This is on a V6 BTW, which is much more involved. It's about a $700 job.

This is what I have to deal with.

teranfon

I could be wrong, but I believe the V6 engine in your car is an interference engine. If this is the case, the valves will contact the pistons if the timing belt fails. If it is, then $700.00 is certainly cheap insurance as compared to catastrophic engine failure.

Overheating is also detrimental to engines as well. This is especially true of engines using aluminum components such as blocks and cylinder heads as in your Accord. Even if the engine overheats and you manage to prevent any damage to the block and cylinder head, other problems could arise such as increased oil consumption

I've always considered manufacturer's service intervals important enough to be followed to ensure longevity and good serviceability. I've always followed recommended service intervals whether it be in automobiles or equipment, and have always enjoyed extended longevity.

Terry

Sarlacc

pretty sure it has a TB. If im wrong...im wrong

Sarlacc

I'd look at your wife and tell her "If you want to go against standard maintenance be my guest. If the timing goes and destroys your engine than tough shit I aint buying you another car. You can walk."

EDIT: Or if its your car...then I'd say "I'm taking YOUR car and you can walk."

Street Spirit

Based on that philosophy, why has she bothered doing oil changes? She could've saved and put all that money towards a new engine too!

.....Why buy new tires when the the current ones are bald? Why change the brake pads when they're due for replacement?

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

the difference in work between the V6 and I4 is pretty minimal, it might take like 30 min longer but nothing significant. But for 700 your getting a great price and I'd go ahead and have it done. Maybe put it off till the spring when there's less bills kicking around, I've put over 200,000km on a belt in my old accord and when I took it out it looked to be in great shape. Also consider your climate, if you live in a salty region that may affect the longevity and flexibility of the rubber and could contribute to faster wear. How do your accessory belts look? if they're cracked and worn, I would be more concerned about the timing belt getting replaced sooner.

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

btw asking for forgiveness is easier than asking for permission

Street Spirit

While I agree that you won't necessarily run into problems at 101,000 miles when they suggest replacement at 100,000....at SOME POINT down the road, it might just snap on you. That could be at 150,000, 200,000 or 300,000... Point is, you never know when it might happen. That's why they call it PREVENTATIVE maintenance....you DON'T WANT it to snap.

phee

iTrader: (5)

put your foot down. whats the point in her argument? its back asswards

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

The thing that's important to remember is that there's no symptoms leading up to a belt failure. No squeaks squeals rattles shakes or anything, just one second everything's all good, next second boom, your fux0red.

SuperTrooper169

iTrader: (2)

What they all said. Plus the 105k maintanence is the first real "tune up" for your Accord, so you've already prolonged what could've been the old 60k mile timing belt change, so just do it and have the insurance you won't seize your engine. It's worth the $700 IMO.

Street Spirit

Exactly. You want to replace it before the belt decides you're overdue.

iTimmy

I can't believe no one else has said this, I thought you car talk folks were smart.

The obvious solution is to trade the car in and get something new that you won't have to worry about the timing belt breaking for a long time to come

Will Y.

We have a 2004 Odyssey, which has the 3.5 V-6. Some SoCal Honda dealers charge about $1200 to change the timing belt, spark plugs, water pump, oil, etc. at the 105K service-- standard practice is to replace the water pump since the front of the engine is accessible at that point.

We're not near that mileage yet, and have a couple of independent Honda mechanics who will charge less than that.

As everyone has said, if the timing belt goes, you're looking at $3K+ for a (likely rebuilt, not new) engine.

Street Spirit

Only BMW owners trade cars every six months or less to prevent things like...maintenance or dirt on the paint.

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

Also consider if the belt snaps say next year, the value proposition of fixing the car gets all stupid, because now you have a car that's only worth 10k requiring 3k in repairs to recoup the 7k, and if you go ahead and replace it with the plan to drive the car into the ground, you now have a engine that will long outlive the chassis components, which will drive up the costs of keeping that engine on the road.

Mokos23

why do you have so many miles on a 2004 Accord?

iTimmy

It could be 5 years old, depending when it was purchased, while high, it is not hard to believe.

SodaLuvr

Most timing belt failures are not caused by the belt itself, but rather by the failure of one of the associated components such as the hydraulic tensioner, tensioner roller or the water pump.

If the timing belt fails, the valves will come in contact with the pistons and cause catastrophic damage. A remanufactured head would be required.

$700 is a great price for doing the timing belt and water pump, but be sure to have the hydraulic tensioner replaced as well. While it isn't always leaking, failures are very common (as indicated by slight wetness on the tensioner) so I'd suggest replacing it while the timing belt service is done. It only adds an extra $100 to the bill, and it's inexpensive insurance that the timing belt system will be trouble-free for another 105k.

Remember that the timing belt service is only part of the 105k service. You will also need to replace the six spark plugs and perform a complete valve adjustment. The valve adjustment is much more involved than the one on the older Honda 2.3 engines as access to the rear is more difficult. Those two items, parts and labor, can add an additional $600 (or more to the bill). That's the beauty of owning a V6, the complete 105k service runs between $1200 to $1600 depending on where you go.

AZuser

Time to trade her in.

No, not the car.

ChrisQ1980

I really hope you are in charge of the finances because she has no sense of financial responsibility. Don't even talk to her about the car anymore. Just get what needs to be done DONE. You are doing preventive maintence. All cars need maintence. She has no idea what she is talking about.

Costco

Here's an idea........ from now on let her drive the car. Then eventually the timing belt will snap from the 100k+ miles of being heated up, cooled down, stretched and pulled in different directions repeatedly and then you can blame it on her and go "nyeh nyeh! I told you so"



or



you can avert an inevitable divorce..... timing chains FTW!!!

subinf

Why don't you just get it done and not worry about what she thinks?

rp_guy

i really don't understand her argument either.. instead of replacing the engine at all, you can have it run to 300k+? maybe she just hates the honda.

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

These are the items that should be replaced on a 2nd gen TL so it's a good list to have for your Accord. Obviously some of the part numbers may be different.

1. Timing Belt, 14400-P8A-A02
2. Timing Belt Hydraulic Tensioner/Pusher, 14520-P8A-A01 (optional, but highly recommended)
3. Timing Belt Tensioner Roller, 14510-P8A-A01 (optional, but highly recommended)
4. Timing Belt Idler, 14550-P8A-A01 (optional, but highly recommended)
5. Camshaft Seals (order two), 91213-P8A-A01 (optional, but good idea to replace due to inexpensive cost)
6. Water Pump, 19200-P8A-A02
7. A/C Compressor Drive Belt, 38920-P8C-A02
8. Power Steering Drive Belt, 56992-P8A-A01
9. Crankshaft Oil Seal, 91212-P8A-A01 (optional, but it's inexpensive and easy to replace once you have everything apart)
10. Valve Cover Gasket (order two), 12341-P8A-A00 (you should perform a complete valve adjustment at 105k so the valve cover gasket will need to be replaced)
11. Spark Plug Tube Seals (order six), 12342-P8A-A01 (whenever the valve cover is off, these should be replaced.)

iTimmy

Mike brings up a very good point, in my 13 years in the automotive biz I've never seen a timing belt break that wasn't directly attributed to something else, tensioner, idler pulley, h2o pump. Granted timing belts weren't my speciality, but it seems when one broke it was always caused by an outside force.

Crazy Bimmer

Man, i wish i could find a place to do the water pump and timing belt for $700 on the NSX!

I been quoted over 1k for it.

tmnhs81

Almost all Honda's/Acura's have interference engines, If timing belt breaks pistons will hit valves damaging pistons and cylinder heads. Water pump failure is more likely over heating problem.