C&D goes 0-60 in 2.7, 10.8 @ 129 in the 2011 911 Turbo S
10-05-2010, 03:57 PM
#41
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
the rear engine design that is a descendant of VW and the Beetle, is its glaring imperfection.
10-05-2010, 03:58 PM
#42
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
10-05-2010, 04:08 PM
#43
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
While Ill generally agree that hanging the engine over/past the rear axle isnt the best idea, Porsche has gone to great lengths over the years to reduce the infamous snap oversteer problem when you let off the gas in a turn. It can still happen (and does) but thats just thinning the herd of dumbass drivers IMO.
10-05-2010, 04:17 PM
#44
Suzuka Master
I guess the countless racing wins around the world with 911s fraught with "glaring imperfections" were all just flukes then? That entire racing series such as the Porsche Cup which utilize cars with "glaring imperfections" renders them pointless and trivial?
I wouldn't call it an imperfection. I for one like that the rear-end slides as I'm accelerating around a turn and I have spent considerable seat time in a Cayman S. Many professional drivers seem to share my opinion.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and the Porsche forums are filled with mid-engine/Cayman vs. rear-engine/911 debate. The mid-engine certainly deserves merit, but for you to belittle the rich heritage of the modern 911 engine is so ludicrous as to be amusing
10-05-2010, 04:19 PM
#45
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
explain to me how race drivers winning in 911's relates to consumers who buy 911's.
10-05-2010, 04:23 PM
#46
Suzuka Master
Or one can rationalize it with the following response...
While Ill generally agree that hanging the engine over/past the rear axle isnt the best idea, Porsche has gone to great lengths over the years to reduce the infamous snap oversteer problem when you let off the gas in a turn. It can still happen (and does) but thats just thinning the herd of dumbass drivers IMO.
10-05-2010, 04:25 PM
#47
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
ok.
10-05-2010, 06:34 PM
#48
10-05-2010, 06:36 PM
#49
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
well, clearly, (obviously), it performs well. in the right hands.
10-05-2010, 07:00 PM
#50
Suzuka Master
This man knows what he's talking about. Bilstein coilovers and one has a completely different animal. What's great about the S is that with the simple flick of the PASM button, I can drop the suspension 10 mm.
10-05-2010, 08:24 PM
#52
Suzuka Master
10-05-2010, 08:56 PM
#53
Team Owner
I understand both sides. I've driven an older 911 past it's limit and it's the only car that's scared me. I can drive anything sideways anytime. The 911 scared me.
The rear engine layout flat works on the track. It works very well on the street too. However, it will still bite you in the ass if you don't respect it. I'm sure it's much better than the old 911s but I would still be a little scared to push it to it's limit on the street where you only get one chance to get it right.
And a 10.8 1/4 for an almost affordable car that comes with a warranty and runs on 91 is unbelievable. I've never had the privilage to own an exotic but from the people I know that have them, Porsche makes a true reliable daily driver supercar unlike the others. I've seen some of the 951s and 911s take incredible abuse on a daily basis and keep coming back for more. The people I know with the Lambos and Ferraris won't drag race most of the time for fear of hurting something.
The rear engine layout flat works on the track. It works very well on the street too. However, it will still bite you in the ass if you don't respect it. I'm sure it's much better than the old 911s but I would still be a little scared to push it to it's limit on the street where you only get one chance to get it right.
And a 10.8 1/4 for an almost affordable car that comes with a warranty and runs on 91 is unbelievable. I've never had the privilage to own an exotic but from the people I know that have them, Porsche makes a true reliable daily driver supercar unlike the others. I've seen some of the 951s and 911s take incredible abuse on a daily basis and keep coming back for more. The people I know with the Lambos and Ferraris won't drag race most of the time for fear of hurting something.
10-05-2010, 09:14 PM
#54
Suzuka Master
I understand both sides. I've driven an older 911 past it's limit and it's the only car that's scared me. I can drive anything sideways anytime. The 911 scared me.
The rear engine layout flat works on the track. It works very well on the street too. However, it will still bite you in the ass if you don't respect it. I'm sure it's much better than the old 911s but I would still be a little scared to push it to it's limit on the street where you only get one chance to get it right.
And a 10.8 1/4 for an almost affordable car that comes with a warranty and runs on 91 is unbelievable. I've never had the privilage to own an exotic but from the people I know that have them, Porsche makes a true reliable daily driver supercar unlike the others. I've seen some of the 951s and 911s take incredible abuse on a daily basis and keep coming back for more. The people I know with the Lambos and Ferraris won't drag race most of the time for fear of hurting something.
The rear engine layout flat works on the track. It works very well on the street too. However, it will still bite you in the ass if you don't respect it. I'm sure it's much better than the old 911s but I would still be a little scared to push it to it's limit on the street where you only get one chance to get it right.
And a 10.8 1/4 for an almost affordable car that comes with a warranty and runs on 91 is unbelievable. I've never had the privilage to own an exotic but from the people I know that have them, Porsche makes a true reliable daily driver supercar unlike the others. I've seen some of the 951s and 911s take incredible abuse on a daily basis and keep coming back for more. The people I know with the Lambos and Ferraris won't drag race most of the time for fear of hurting something.
As far as reliability goes, in 3 years of ownership I've had to reflash the engine blower and replace the temperature and fan buttons and inner rubber lining of the driver's window, all covered under warranty. No major drama, I can see why it's ranked high by J.D. Power. If I didn't have a lead foot, I'd be getting pretty damn decent mileage as well, usually it's 25+ mpg highway driving, 17 on the street.
10-06-2010, 12:21 AM
#56
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
10-06-2010, 01:25 AM
#57
911 Turbo's always been my one of my favorite cars (always has had a big spot in my heart).
Its the TL and the 911 Turbo (964 and the current ones).
911 Turbo's always have blown apart the competition and set standards while having amazing efficiency.
And if the pattern repeats itself - they keep there long term value.
Its the TL and the 911 Turbo (964 and the current ones).
911 Turbo's always have blown apart the competition and set standards while having amazing efficiency.
And if the pattern repeats itself - they keep there long term value.
10-06-2010, 01:42 AM
#58
I'm going to catch hell for this..... but the last 911 Turbo that I really, REALLY liked was the 993 Turbo. Never was a big fan of the 996 in general, and while I really like the 997 and most of its variants (actually, I like all of them) I'm not a fan of the 997 Turbo. The fog lights look like an afterthought.... like "oh snap, Klaus..... we forgot der foglights! Quick, slap them on off to the side somewhere, and mold the rest of the bumper around them" and I'm just not a fan of the rear, sorry. I would take a 997 GT3 any day over a 997 Turbo.... but that's just me.
And you can keep your PDK. I'll take a car that's a half second slower in the 1/4, as long as it's stick.
And you can keep your PDK. I'll take a car that's a half second slower in the 1/4, as long as it's stick.
10-06-2010, 02:13 AM
#59
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
993 FTMFW.
Thats the first Porsche I ever saw and I was in love with it.
Thats the first Porsche I ever saw and I was in love with it.
10-06-2010, 10:36 AM
#61
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
oh my. I was just going to come in here and post about how I had a dream last night that I bought a 993 Turbo. Arena Red. (just like the one above). and I hadn't even seen this thread or the discussion yet today. or last night. WEIRD. Its the first dream I recall where I bought or had a 993 turbo. It was pretty sweet! ok, bye.
10-06-2010, 01:03 PM
#62
Team Owner
I think a large part of it's imperfection was the suspension which made it more prone to spin or flip. I've seen pictures of those things with like 20 degrees if positive camber around a corner.
10-06-2010, 01:20 PM
#64
Trolling Canuckistan
IIRC the only Porsche with a ride height adjustment is the Cayenne.
Last edited by black label; 10-06-2010 at 01:24 PM.
10-06-2010, 02:01 PM
#65
Suzuka Master
Pretty sure that's not how it works Rick. The PASM cars are 10mm lower than non PASM cars right off the bat. Switching to "sport" adjusts the stiffness of the suspension, throttle response, and if equipped with the sport exhaust, opens up the baffles to make the engine roar.
IIRC the only Porsche with a ride height adjustment is the Cayenne.
IIRC the only Porsche with a ride height adjustment is the Cayenne.
RTFM!
1. PASM and PSM
These days, Porsche gives you some extra electronics to help. First, there is PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management) which is an option on the Carrera and standard on the Carrera S. Normally, PASM adjusts the damper settings according to conditions, so when you drive faster the damping is firmer. This is best for most motoring.
When you start driving hard along twisty roads you might want to switch to Sport as I did which lowers the car slightly, and keeps the stiff settings all the time. Not so good when you have to go slowly through a village with poor road surfaces, but the best when you're really pushing hard.
PSM (Porsche Stability System) is standard, and should you corner too fast for the conditions, PSM intervenes to maintain stability – up to the limit, as they are careful to state in the instruction manual!
2. For the hardcore enthusiast, there's a PASM sports suspension option that lowers ride height another 0.4 inches, for a total of 0.8 inches below a PASM-free model.
10-06-2010, 03:22 PM
#66
Trolling Canuckistan
Uh, weren't you previously a car salesman at Porsche? It's common knowledge that adjusting the PASM suspension lowers the ride.
RTFM!
1. PASM and PSM
These days, Porsche gives you some extra electronics to help. First, there is PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management) which is an option on the Carrera and standard on the Carrera S. Normally, PASM adjusts the damper settings according to conditions, so when you drive faster the damping is firmer. This is best for most motoring.
When you start driving hard along twisty roads you might want to switch to Sport as I did which lowers the car slightly, and keeps the stiff settings all the time. Not so good when you have to go slowly through a village with poor road surfaces, but the best when you're really pushing hard.
PSM (Porsche Stability System) is standard, and should you corner too fast for the conditions, PSM intervenes to maintain stability – up to the limit, as they are careful to state in the instruction manual!
2. For the hardcore enthusiast, there's a PASM sports suspension option that lowers ride height another 0.4 inches, for a total of 0.8 inches below a PASM-free model.
RTFM!
1. PASM and PSM
These days, Porsche gives you some extra electronics to help. First, there is PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management) which is an option on the Carrera and standard on the Carrera S. Normally, PASM adjusts the damper settings according to conditions, so when you drive faster the damping is firmer. This is best for most motoring.
When you start driving hard along twisty roads you might want to switch to Sport as I did which lowers the car slightly, and keeps the stiff settings all the time. Not so good when you have to go slowly through a village with poor road surfaces, but the best when you're really pushing hard.
PSM (Porsche Stability System) is standard, and should you corner too fast for the conditions, PSM intervenes to maintain stability – up to the limit, as they are careful to state in the instruction manual!
2. For the hardcore enthusiast, there's a PASM sports suspension option that lowers ride height another 0.4 inches, for a total of 0.8 inches below a PASM-free model.
here.
The electronic adjustment of the suspension system actively and continuously regulates the damping force for each wheel according to the road conditions and driving style. In addition, the suspension is 10 mm lower. PASM is fitted as standard in the S models and is optional for models with the 3.6-litre engine. The driver can select between two different modes: ‘Normal’ which is a blend of performance and comfort, and ‘Sport’ where the setup is much firmer. The two setup modes overlap slightly and so the balance between comfortable and uncompromisingly sporty is struck more effectively than with a conventional chassis. Depending on the mode selected, therefore, PASM is sportier or more comfortable than the standard chassis of models with the 3.6-litre engine. The PASM control unit evaluates the driving conditions and modifies the damping force on each of the wheels in accordance with the selected mode. Sensors monitor the movement of the vehicle body, for example, under heavy acceleration and braking or on uneven roads. The control unit tunes the dampers to the optimum hardness for the selected mode to reduce roll and pitch, and increase contact between each individual wheel and the road. In ‘Sport’ mode, the suspension is set to a harder damper rating. On uneven roads, PASM immediately switches to a softer rating within the ‘Sport’ setup range, thereby improving contact between the wheels and the road. When the road surface improves, PASM automatically reverts to the original, harder rating. If ‘Normal’ mode is selected and the driver’s style becomes more assertive, PASM automatically switches to a harder rating within the ‘Normal’ setup range. Damping becomes harder, and driving stability and road safety are increased.
The new PASM sports chassis is available as an option for Coupé models and only in conjunction with 19-inch wheels. The suspension is 20 mm lower in comparison to the standard suspension of the 911 Carrera, and 10 mm lower compared with the PASM suspension of the S models. The springs are harder and shorter, and the lateral stabilisers on the front and rear axle are stiffer. In combination with PASM, it offers greater comfort than that of the conventional sports suspension. The mechanically locking rear differential further enhances the traction of the driven rear wheels on uneven roads and, for example, when accelerating out of tight bends. Road holding at the limits of performance is even more predictable. The car holds its course better and so PSM intervenes less often.
The new PASM sports chassis is available as an option for Coupé models and only in conjunction with 19-inch wheels. The suspension is 20 mm lower in comparison to the standard suspension of the 911 Carrera, and 10 mm lower compared with the PASM suspension of the S models. The springs are harder and shorter, and the lateral stabilisers on the front and rear axle are stiffer. In combination with PASM, it offers greater comfort than that of the conventional sports suspension. The mechanically locking rear differential further enhances the traction of the driven rear wheels on uneven roads and, for example, when accelerating out of tight bends. Road holding at the limits of performance is even more predictable. The car holds its course better and so PSM intervenes less often.
http://www.porsche.com/microsite/tec...11CarreraTarga
10-06-2010, 03:26 PM
#68
In my personal experience, 90% of them don't.
One salesman told us that the 2G TL Type-S was supercharged. I was 13, didn't do much research, but even I knew that was flat out wrong at the time. Sales, finance, add-ons, stuff like that, that's the main requirement. May be different with a Porsche salesman such as yourself though, but with your average Honda, Toyota or Ford salesman, I'm surprised when I see that they know how to fold down the seats in one of their new cars.
One salesman told us that the 2G TL Type-S was supercharged. I was 13, didn't do much research, but even I knew that was flat out wrong at the time. Sales, finance, add-ons, stuff like that, that's the main requirement. May be different with a Porsche salesman such as yourself though, but with your average Honda, Toyota or Ford salesman, I'm surprised when I see that they know how to fold down the seats in one of their new cars.
10-06-2010, 03:31 PM
#69
Suzuka Master
Yes I was and one of us is misinterpreting Porsches literature. According to the folks who engineered it and build it, it does not actively adjust ride height, only damping force. You can here.
So maybe "common knowledge" needs to changed to "common misconception", here's the link....
http://www.porsche.com/microsite/tec...11CarreraTarga
here.So maybe "common knowledge" needs to changed to "common misconception", here's the link....
http://www.porsche.com/microsite/tec...11CarreraTarga
You know your Porsche shit way more than me so since it's your occupation and just my hobby but there's certainly a lot of misinformation out there then
From Edmunds Inside Line
By pressing this button, located on the center console, the system switches from "PASM Normal" to "PASM Sport," lowering the car by 0.39 inch and incorporating firmer damper control. Porsche claims the system has cut lap times at the Nurburgring test track by 5 seconds compared to a 911 with the standard suspension.
Bottom line is I notice I substantial improvement in handling and a much firmer ride when I active PASM to sports mode. It certainly makes cornering the twisties out by Makapuu a lot more enjoyable but OTW is too stiff for my bony ass.
10-06-2010, 03:33 PM
#70
Trolling Canuckistan
Not with Porsche anymore 
I'm back to being a lowly Acura salesman but I know guys like myself and Colin aren't the industry standard. I had to check because I'm not fully up to date with Porsches latest technology so you did have me second guessing myself. The latest things I was with them for were the introduction of PDK, PCM3.0 and finally adding bluetooth. I'd be more likely to trust the word of Porsches site than Edmunds when it came to Porsches vehicles.
I rarely took the cars out of sport mode myself unless I was dealing with the most frost heaven roads of New England.
I'm back to being a lowly Acura salesman but I know guys like myself and Colin aren't the industry standard. I had to check because I'm not fully up to date with Porsches latest technology so you did have me second guessing myself. The latest things I was with them for were the introduction of PDK, PCM3.0 and finally adding bluetooth. I'd be more likely to trust the word of Porsches site than Edmunds when it came to Porsches vehicles.
I rarely took the cars out of sport mode myself unless I was dealing with the most frost heaven roads of New England.
Last edited by black label; 10-06-2010 at 03:38 PM.
10-06-2010, 03:38 PM
#71
I'm not too familiar with PASM or the mechanism I'm about to mention but I know either the Murcielago or some other recent Lambo had a feature to raise the ride height if the car was going less than 15 mph or something like that, to help with driveway clearance. I figure its much easier to adjust dampening rate on the go, but I don't know about ride height.
Either way, that's cool.
That's fine.... but yeah, you and Colin are the most knowledgeable (salesmen or otherwise) and coolest salesman that I... er, kind of know. My brother being the other one 
I would give him crap just for kicks.... he's a big car/truck guy anyway, but he went to the liberty of spending time inside new cars whenever he could to see the features, and learn about the intricacies.
Either way, that's cool.
I would give him crap just for kicks.... he's a big car/truck guy anyway, but he went to the liberty of spending time inside new cars whenever he could to see the features, and learn about the intricacies.
10-06-2010, 03:39 PM
#73
Trolling Canuckistan
10-06-2010, 03:44 PM
#74
Suzuka Master
I'm not too familiar with PASM or the mechanism I'm about to mention but I know either the Murcielago or some other recent Lambo had a feature to raise the ride height if the car was going less than 15 mph or something like that, to help with driveway clearance. I figure its much easier to adjust dampening rate on the go, but I don't know about ride height.
Either way, that's cool.
That's fine.... but yeah, you and Colin are the most knowledgeable (salesmen or otherwise) and coolest salesman that I... er, kind of know. My brother being the other one
I would give him crap just for kicks.... he's a big car/truck guy anyway, but he went to the liberty of spending time inside new cars whenever he could to see the features, and learn about the intricacies.
Either way, that's cool.
That's fine.... but yeah, you and Colin are the most knowledgeable (salesmen or otherwise) and coolest salesman that I... er, kind of know. My brother being the other one
I would give him crap just for kicks.... he's a big car/truck guy anyway, but he went to the liberty of spending time inside new cars whenever he could to see the features, and learn about the intricacies.
The PASM is suspension based and adjusts the firmness in Sports mode for improved handling. As alluded to above, this feature alone shaved 5 seconds off the 'Ring which is pretty damn impressive IMO.
Black Label, I'll go home and check out my manual again. I felt my ride was lowered in Sports mode but we all know how reliable butt dyno is
10-06-2010, 03:51 PM
#75
Totally unrelated. The front hydraulic mechanism is purely for ground clearance and interestingly enough is a $3500 option on the GT3 and GT3RS. So many of us are scraping this black plastic front apron that is beneath the front bumper but it's there for protective reasons and can't be easily visualized unless one is flush with the ground. My boy actually had to replace his after it got torn off but it's a relatively inexpensive part.
The PASM is suspension based and adjusts the firmness in Sports mode for improved handling. As alluded to above, this feature alone shaved 5 seconds off the 'Ring which is pretty damn impressive IMO.
Black Label, I'll go home and check out my manual again. I felt my ride was lowered in Sports mode but we all know how reliable butt dyno is
The PASM is suspension based and adjusts the firmness in Sports mode for improved handling. As alluded to above, this feature alone shaved 5 seconds off the 'Ring which is pretty damn impressive IMO.
Black Label, I'll go home and check out my manual again. I felt my ride was lowered in Sports mode but we all know how reliable butt dyno is
10-06-2010, 04:15 PM
#76
Trolling Canuckistan
The ride height adjustment is 100% possible and Porsche does have it but afaik it's just on the Cayenne. There are a few different ride heights you can select but the vehicle will lower itself as higher speeds are achieved. The Cayenne GTS didn't reach it's lowest ride height until you hit some ridiculous speed like 120mph. Some of the higher end Benz's do it as well.
10-06-2010, 08:51 PM
#77
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In my personal experience, 90% of them don't.
One salesman told us that the 2G TL Type-S was supercharged. I was 13, didn't do much research, but even I knew that was flat out wrong at the time. Sales, finance, add-ons, stuff like that, that's the main requirement. May be different with a Porsche salesman such as yourself though, but with your average Honda, Toyota or Ford salesman, I'm surprised when I see that they know how to fold down the seats in one of their new cars.
One salesman told us that the 2G TL Type-S was supercharged. I was 13, didn't do much research, but even I knew that was flat out wrong at the time. Sales, finance, add-ons, stuff like that, that's the main requirement. May be different with a Porsche salesman such as yourself though, but with your average Honda, Toyota or Ford salesman, I'm surprised when I see that they know how to fold down the seats in one of their new cars.
http://www.hondanews.com/channels/ac...e-s-powertrain
Last edited by ghttf; 10-06-2010 at 09:06 PM. Reason: link
10-06-2010, 09:13 PM
#78
Trolling Canuckistan
Actually I remember a brochure that said that the Type-S had the effect of internal supercharging
http://www.hondanews.com/channels/ac...e-s-powertrain
http://www.hondanews.com/channels/ac...e-s-powertrain
that's some nice :detective work there, they did like to say the dual stage intake manifold had a "supercharger effect". In reality that was a bit of hyperbole on their part.end
back to Porsche is wicked fast.
Last edited by black label; 10-06-2010 at 09:16 PM.
10-06-2010, 10:31 PM
#80
Team Owner
Actually I remember a brochure that said that the Type-S had the effect of internal supercharging
http://www.hondanews.com/channels/ac...e-s-powertrain
http://www.hondanews.com/channels/ac...e-s-powertrain