digiTL

...kinda

http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e60/5502951-2.html

J RIDE 81

Very Very Interesting. Puts a smile on my face.

markjrenna

Me too. Did you read the responses??? Some of those BMW owners are jealous and nasty. Why is that?

I like BMW, I just don't have 65K to put in a 5 series or any car. If I get the 65K though... do I have become jealous and mean too??? Or does that just happen when you buy it?

lakeman

I know a 545 will blow the doors off the TL, and should be a great car but for $65K it should also have some goodies. If you saw the R&T issue with both the TL and the 530 reviewed, you would see that for 10K less than the 530 the TL out runs, out corners and out brakes the 530. Even though R&T doesn't like FWD, the TL is the better performance sedan if you consider objective tests.
TL Boring ? --NOT

sir-bentley

nicely put.

neuronbob

They should've kept the previous style a little longer.....and made the devices work before they put them in the brochure.

All this goes to show you is:

1. TL is an exceptional value (which, after a coupla simple mods handles almost--ALMOST as well as the 5-series)
2. All automakers F-up on features. I mean, right here on A-TL.com, we were complaining about the lack of side mirror blinkers (which were advertised in the first version of the brochure, which I have) and ventilated seats.

Even so, I smile thinking I could have paid north of $50k for the new version of the Ultimate Driving Machine and not had my geek toys, and didn't.

golfingguru

We were very torn between the G35x, 330xi, and TL. In the end it came down to the Tl vs the 330xi and for 14K less we got the Tl with more features, more HP, hopefully better reliability. The only sacrifice was FWD instead of AWD. Don't get me wrong, the 330 was a very sweet ride and handled like it was on rails, but it topped 47K with nav, premium pkg, sport pkg, etc...

The TL is without a doubt the best deal for a car under 40K and possibly over 40K also.

DanL

iTrader: (2)

"As of the end of July Acura TL sales for that month were up 48% and year to date sales up 44% which accurately reflects the marketplaces endorsement of the new TL. Now that SW-AWD is available, it will undoubtedly increase its customer base. A truly superior value for the money."

Betcha didn't know SW-AWD was available for the TL, did ya? :-)

JN99

I agree that from purely a value perspective the TL beats BMW hands down. But then from an aesthetics and drive perspective it is exactly the opposite (at least in previous non I-drive models). People who buy BMWs usually do so for the drive. Having owned a 328 I can tell you I've not been in another car in the same price neighborhood that comes close to the drive of that car except other BMWs. Not the TL, not any Audi, not a Nissan 350z, nothing. It's hard to describe or explain.

I logged 18,000 miles on a 350z and only the first 500 or so were anything to remember whileall 30,000+ were a joy in my 328. I have also test driven the TL on a few ocassions and been underwhelmed. But I'm in the market and the value is why the TL is still my top choice. Unless money is no option it's hard to argue with value, especially in a package like the TL.

MasterShake

iTrader: (1)

[I'm in a crappy mood]

I would agree that many buy BMW for the drive, but would say most buy it for the BMW prestige.

I have a friend that would say things about my TL like, " It's nice to see Japanese automakers finally catching up to the Germans." (He just bought a 2000 M roadster). This bubble butt can't drive his way out of Krispy Kreme parking lot. What does he and so many others care about drive?

SergeyM

But you would drive the Ultimate Driving Machine!

GunnmeTaLCURA04

damn i love that damn 645i but just tooo much money. i just think it looks mean... comming at you.. lol..

blackjackman

>>This bubble butt can't drive his way out of Krispy Kreme parking lot. What does he and so many others care about drive?

lol....funny. I gotta remember that

sparkz

Why are they even comparing a car that costs nearly twice as much as a TL? I'd have to say though, for 65k, I'd hope it came with extra goodies.

VQ35DE

From what I understand, too bad 65k doesnt buy much quality when it comes to BMW.

VTEC11

planman

The kind of pi$$ing contest that a guy's honest, opinionated post stirred up reminds me of why I love this board. Even thought most of us love our TLs and will defend them to the death, we're mostly open to other opinions.

A good car is a good car no matter who makes it or what it costs. And, of course, the opposite is true, too.

markjrenna

Yeah!!! Let them think we have SW-AWD and even SH-AWD!

Please don't let them know our TL's fly. They will be so upset we only paid half as much!!!

Tuetatesu

Yup... that's is why I bought a TL... and the fact that I liked the interior more. I do have to say that BMW's do look a little more sport on the outside, but I like the TL just the same.

J RIDE 81

I think those BMW owners are just making an excuse why they spent so much money. I kept laughing at some of those reply's.

BarryH

The Germans have always sucked at gadgets. They're slow at adopting most new audio and navigation trends. BMW only three years ago started putting in CD players instead of cassettes. In the US, you still can't get an Audi A4 or A6 with an LCD navi. M-B still puts their multi disc CD changer in the trunk. But... They lead in other technolgies more integral to the design and performance of the car. Face it, DVD-A, Bluetooth, and a talking navi have nothing to do with the car itself and are in fact produced by a third party and not Acura. I guess you have to decide which is more important, gadgets or engineering.

93SHOcar

I would argue that successful automotive engineering, at least for the mass market, includes reliability and low maintenance. The German marques really seem to be faltering in these areas... particularly VW and Mercedes but I feel you would have to include BMW as well. While I enjoy the extra features the TL offers, I would not have stepped up with my hard earned $'s if I didn't believe that the Honda/Acura engineering was going to result in a solid, reliable vehicle. The well executed "gadgets" are appreciated but were certainly not the core part of my decision.

vp911

Some of you may have seen a few of my recent posts - as I am looking to purchase a TL now... the 5 series was most deffinately something I was considering, the performance is amazing; however, I am a big tech person, I love bluetooth and the sat radio, and of course for at least 15 grand less... im a teenager hell i want a fast performance car... but my biggest reason for deciding on the TL over the 5 series is, I can pay cash for the TL from my savings... the BMW I would have to finance the extra 15-25 grand... i do agree that the BMW should ahve all the features of the TL in it---standard though.. e.g. xenon lights should not be an option...they should be standard

tms

The 545 will not blow the doors off the TL 6 Speed. In fact if you look in the C&D article a few issues ago when they featured the TL A-Spec.....the 0-60 and quarter mile runs were very very close. The new 545/530 look like a Pontiac now!

VQ35DE

True, they are very close in 1/4 mile times but the 545i is runs about 4mph faster through the traps. All things being even, the 545i should outperform a TL 6MT. But I will say one thing: at well over 2 tons, the new 545i is one heavy beast.

Pot80h

I got to check out my friend's brand new fully loaded 545i on Saturday. It's a very nice car, but I wouldn't want one (even if I could afford it). The transmission buttons on the steering wheel reminded me too much of pinball, and I don't want to deal with the I-drive.

Oh yeah, and I don't want to have to agree to a legal disclaimer every time I want to start the damn thing up!

But he's happy with it, so I'm happy for him

vp911

What about the 05' RL... has everything... i think... lol

TLud

Don't judge all bimmer owners by those guys at roadfly. Most of them tend to be dicks. It's a sad fact that the average BMW owner bought his or her car mainly for the prestige/image rather than the performance.

As for the gadgets, yes, it is a shame that BMW can't integrate the options that come on $30k cars these days in their cars that cost $50k+. And worse yet, the options that you can add on will cost you alone what you could have paid for a decent used car. I've got the Bluetooth and integrated satelite radio in my 330 and that's plenty of gadgets for me, but it's a good thing I didn't want the navi because I couldn't have got it with the other two options. BMW really needs to get it together in this regard.

One thing I wanted to point out is in reference to all the people who like to bring up the fact that the TL's objective performance numbers are better than the BMW's. The TL is a great handling car, but those numbers don't really tell the whole story. The BMW is so awesome in that department because you can push the car to it's limits and feel comfortable doing so the entire way. You can push the TL to get those advertised numbers, but it'll always feel like it's on the edge. Not putting down the TL, just trying to put the numbers in perspective based on my experiences driving the two cars.

rp401k

I recently traded in my 330Ci, manual trans for a 2004 TL auto with navigation. I loved the BMW, but needed more room, bigger trunk, and wanted 4 doors and auto, as I do an increasing amount of driving in heavy Chicago traffic. In terms of feel, the TL is about as quick as the BMW, even with the auto. Using the manual mode in the auto seems to result in faster shifts under heavy throttle than using drive. As far as cornering, I can make the TL corner almost as fast as the 330 in wide sweeping turns, but the BMW corners on rails, while the TL has a light detached feel that makes me a bit tentative when I drive it hard. The TL has a softer, more dampened suspension, that along with the front drive, makes it less able to transition than the BMW. All that said, the TL handles and rides great. I only notice much of a difference on those rare occasions when I have the opportunity to drive it very sportingly. What sold me on the TL, was the combination of performance and luxury for the price. I am buying this car for what I leased the BMW for. The interior is fantastic, and I don't think I will ever tire of all the toys, or hearing the lady tell me where to turn. Tons of features for the money and a beautiful car. My salesperson believes that eventually Acura will sell the performance suspension, tire, and wheel package separately. When and if this happens, he has agreed in principal to split out the suspension because he can sell the wheels separately. I would eventually like to upgrade the tires too (on the stock wheels). These modest changes should eliminate some of the floatiness and improve the driving feel, although I don't expect it to corner like my old 330. Speaking for myself and BMW drivers I know, we bought (or leased) our cars because of how they drove. Status was irrelevant. Both BMW and Acura make great vehicles, just not quite the same.

longwood

The best way I can describe the difference between the 3 series and the TL is that the 3 just feel more "planted" cornering at high speeds and even going straight in tripple digits. I took the TL to a parking lot where I used to autocross the 3 (you can tell the track from the rubber on the pavement) and the TL has more "push" in the front end. Granted, my last three had the sport package and I have a base TL, but the difference was dramatic in my view.

Having just moved from a 3 series to the TL due to the need for more rear seat room, I have noticed several features that the 3 series had that the TL lacks. This was a 1999 three series, so these are not exactly cutting edge features.

1) Ability to open trunk without key. All BMW, audi, and every freaken SUV on the planet has this. It is a pain to walk to the driver door everytime I want to open the trunk if I do not have the key in my pocket.

2) sensor to dim dash lights. An electric eye on my BMW kept the dash lights bright when I turned my headlights on in the rain or at dusk. Nice.

3) remote integrated with key. Audi is especially nice here with it's folding key but BMW is nice as well.

4) Radio does not identify station name on FM. I guess they thought everyone would just lissten to XM but I miss having my radio tell me the name of the station and even the name of the song on most local FM stations.

These would each cost less than ten bucks in a mass market situation but Acura left them out.

Yeah the BMW is more money. I am 37 years old and bought a TL because I need room for three car seats and drive into the city now greatly reducing the fun of a manual. As soon as the kids can all can buckle themselves, it is back to a BMW unless something else catches up in the next five years (or they get even more Bangled).

I really do not understand why anyone who does not need the room would pick a TL over a 3. I do nto regret the decision to buy a TL, it sort of made me feel a little old.

vtechbrain

Most BMW owners are pricks with little dicks and stupid women (the louis vutton handbag type). They just want to wear the little propeler around their necks. Most know little if anything about technology or engineering. Since they have little minds, a little propeler, a three pointed star or some stupid little emblem is all that is important to them. Personally I wish Acura didn't exist I would be just as happy if my TL had a big fat H on the grill, unfortunately the market is very class concious (as VW discovered with the Phaeton).

jackal2001

I'm in the same boat. Took all them out for a test drive. The price of the 330xi is just lacking the technology of todays era. I mean the gizmos, and gadgets. I am patiently waiting for the 06 tl, hopefully with awd, if not I might go the G35x route.

TLud

Just a little harsh and overstated, dontcha think?

dcarlinf1

V8 vs V6 and still competitive. 'Nuff said.

V6 vs V6 (i.e. the 530i) and the TL wins

dcarlinf1

It's called value. The 3 series is way over priced IMO. I probably would've bought one if it weren't for the sticker shock. And that's before you add the stuff the TL has standard.

markjrenna

There is a clear difference between this board and the bimmer boards. Here people express their differences between cars by making clear points. And you know what, the people here express themselves articulately.

I'm sticking to my earlier post.

TLud

I'd recommend checking out BMW forums like bimmerfest.com, where you have your average car enthusiasts talking rationally about the cars they love (i.e., no arrogant pricks or posing boy racers who love to talk big behind their propeller logo and the anonymity of the Internet). There are a few of us who are members of both boards, and I enjoy spending time both here and there because it's just a bunch of fellow car lovers.


You won't get much argument from me on the fact that the 3er is way over priced, especially once you start adding on options, but I don't think that the price difference is as much as many would expect. When I was shopping for an A-Spec TL back in February, the lowest price I was quoted was around $38,500 before TT&L. I'm comparing the A-Spec to take into account the fact that I got the Performance Package on my 330Ci, which comes with the 18's, the tighter suspension, spoiler, etc. My 330Ci w/ the Performance Package, leather, xenons, and moonroof was only $41,500 before TT&L. If you take into account the Bluetooth and XM Direct that I bought on my own and installed myself, then it was $42,200 or so. If I had gone with the 330 sedan, then the prices would have been even closer because the sedan is cheaper than the coupe (of course, if I had gone with the sedan, I would have picked the TL hands down). Add on the fact that I got 2.9% financing through BMW, and I doubt that the total cost for me was really much greater. Just FYI for those comparing the two cars.

BarryH

Maybe from the small statistical sampling you know personally. I own a BMW (I've also had two Acura's) and my dick is quite ample, thank you. People who buy cars as status symbols and give a shit what others think about them are usually insecure and suffer from feelings of inadequacy. I don't think BMW as a brand has any more or less of those people as owners. The people I know that own luxury marques could give a crap what other people think and are at points in their lives where they can comfortably afford a high-end luxury car. I didn't choose not to buy another Acura because of it's status (or lack there of) nor did I buy a BMW because of what other people would think. More people probably fall in to my category than the one you describe. But, I can't speak for the whole car buying universe nor would I attempt to. Speak for yourself, not the car buying universe in aggregate.

SergeyM

So, people who "know little about technology and engineering" for some strange reason buy the best engineered cars like BMWs and MBs. Does not make much sense to me.

1SICKLEX

:ghey: :gheywave: