BMW Diesel Beats Prius in Economy Run
03-19-2008 | 10:43 AM
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BMW Diesel Beats Prius in Economy Run
http://www.technoride.com/2008/03/bm...us_in_econ.php
BMW Diesel Beats Prius in Economy Run
Is this a case of man bites dog? A mid-size BMW sedan equipped with a diesel engine returned better fuel economy on a 545-mile, London-to-Geneva, run than a gasoline-powered Toyota Prius. A BMW 520d with a 2.0-liter diesel engine and regenerative braking (but no heavy duty hybrid features) got 41.9 mpg while the full-hybrid Prius, 500 pounds lighter, got 40.1 mpg.
Two writers for the Sunday Times (London) wondered if official mpg ratings were accurate after hearing from their readers who said the Prius ratings were high by 15 (U.K.) mpg. "If our readers are right and the official figure is wrong it has important implications, not least of which is that people driving frugal diesels are getting a raw deal," the paper said, since hybrids get some tax and roadway access benefits in Europe as they do in the U.S. To find out, they drove BMW's midsize 5 Series sedan and the Prius London-to-Geneva, adding 100 miles to the route "to give the Prius the advantage of running in urban conditions where its petrol-electric drivetrain comes into its own."
Whilst the BMW "doesn't have the external look of a green car and you don't get the same self-righteous glow when you are driving it," it does have a series of energy-saving features BMW calls EfficientDynamics: battery recharge when braking, good aerodynamics, low rolling resistance, a continuous fuel consumption gauge on the dashboard, and a six-speed manual transmission that is rated as improving fuel economy by about 10%. Testers found the 520d "not startlingly quick ... [but] it cruised happily at the French autoroute limit (dry conditions) of 78mph towards the champagne region." When the trip was done, the BMW still had a third of its tank in reserve.
The Prius, in comparison, ran out of gas. Not because of lousy mileage but because the tank is smaller (and the testers had a spare can of gas aboard). Acceleration was "hardly dragstrip quick and slower than the BMW, but still respectable." The Prius weighed 573 pounds less and had an aerodynamic shape "as slippery as a campaign manager discussing political donations," leading the testers to believe "the Prius should take less energy than the BMW to maintain a constant cruising speed." Not so. As many people know, the advantage of hybrids lies in urban driving where the stop-and-go recaptures the car's energy. On the highway, it's one more four-cylinder car pushing throught the wind.
The full story is on the website of the Sunday Times (London): "Toyota Prius proves a gas guzzler in a race with the BMW 520d: The Toyota hybrid is hailed as an eco-paragon, so how does it fare against a big BMW? To find out our correspondents go on a run to Geneva." An Imperial gallon is 1.2 U.S. gallons, or a U.S. gallon is 0.83 Imperial gallons. Roughly speaking, discount the Times numbers by one-fifth: a 50 mpg vehicle to them is a 40 mpg vehicle to us Yanks. Another reason we should all go metric.
Is this a case of man bites dog? A mid-size BMW sedan equipped with a diesel engine returned better fuel economy on a 545-mile, London-to-Geneva, run than a gasoline-powered Toyota Prius. A BMW 520d with a 2.0-liter diesel engine and regenerative braking (but no heavy duty hybrid features) got 41.9 mpg while the full-hybrid Prius, 500 pounds lighter, got 40.1 mpg.
Two writers for the Sunday Times (London) wondered if official mpg ratings were accurate after hearing from their readers who said the Prius ratings were high by 15 (U.K.) mpg. "If our readers are right and the official figure is wrong it has important implications, not least of which is that people driving frugal diesels are getting a raw deal," the paper said, since hybrids get some tax and roadway access benefits in Europe as they do in the U.S. To find out, they drove BMW's midsize 5 Series sedan and the Prius London-to-Geneva, adding 100 miles to the route "to give the Prius the advantage of running in urban conditions where its petrol-electric drivetrain comes into its own."
Whilst the BMW "doesn't have the external look of a green car and you don't get the same self-righteous glow when you are driving it," it does have a series of energy-saving features BMW calls EfficientDynamics: battery recharge when braking, good aerodynamics, low rolling resistance, a continuous fuel consumption gauge on the dashboard, and a six-speed manual transmission that is rated as improving fuel economy by about 10%. Testers found the 520d "not startlingly quick ... [but] it cruised happily at the French autoroute limit (dry conditions) of 78mph towards the champagne region." When the trip was done, the BMW still had a third of its tank in reserve.
The Prius, in comparison, ran out of gas. Not because of lousy mileage but because the tank is smaller (and the testers had a spare can of gas aboard). Acceleration was "hardly dragstrip quick and slower than the BMW, but still respectable." The Prius weighed 573 pounds less and had an aerodynamic shape "as slippery as a campaign manager discussing political donations," leading the testers to believe "the Prius should take less energy than the BMW to maintain a constant cruising speed." Not so. As many people know, the advantage of hybrids lies in urban driving where the stop-and-go recaptures the car's energy. On the highway, it's one more four-cylinder car pushing throught the wind.
The full story is on the website of the Sunday Times (London): "Toyota Prius proves a gas guzzler in a race with the BMW 520d: The Toyota hybrid is hailed as an eco-paragon, so how does it fare against a big BMW? To find out our correspondents go on a run to Geneva." An Imperial gallon is 1.2 U.S. gallons, or a U.S. gallon is 0.83 Imperial gallons. Roughly speaking, discount the Times numbers by one-fifth: a 50 mpg vehicle to them is a 40 mpg vehicle to us Yanks. Another reason we should all go metric.
03-19-2008 | 10:52 AM
#3
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I think if we are to save the atmosphere, you need car that doesn't get the best MPG..but the car the spews out the fewest CO2, NO2, etc. I think many people and car makers don't understand that yet.
03-19-2008 | 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Black Tire
I think if we are to save the atmosphere, you need car that doesn't get the best MPG..but the car the spews out the fewest CO2, NO2, etc. I think many people and car makers don't understand that yet.
I think the Prius is a brilliant marketing gimmic.
Diesel FTW until Hydrogen finally gets taken seriously.
03-19-2008 | 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by fuzzy02CLS
I think not. $3.99-$4.10 for diesel around here.
40.1 VS 41.9? That's not really a difference that would matter.
40.1 VS 41.9? That's not really a difference that would matter.
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03-19-2008 | 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Black Tire
I think if we are to save the atmosphere, you need car that doesn't get the best MPG..but the car the spews out the fewest CO2, NO2, etc. I think many people and car makers don't understand that yet.
During these times, unless you are a conservationalist or global-warming-freaked tree-huggers, gas-mileage is one of the first things on your mind, not CO2 emissions.
03-19-2008 | 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by fuzzy02CLS
I think not. $3.99-$4.10 for diesel around here.
40.1 VS 41.9? That's not really a difference that would matter.
40.1 VS 41.9? That's not really a difference that would matter.
03-19-2008 | 02:35 PM
#13
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From: NY
Originally Posted by charliemike
Interesting how diesel used to be cheaper than gas and now it's the reverse ... More bullshit price manipulation IMO.
In Europe, it's the opposite. About half of the cars over there are diesel, so their refineries produce more diesel. Diesel costs about $1 cheaper there than gasoline.
What we really need here is more refineries so we can increase capacity, but then you get the "not in my backyard" syndrome.
03-19-2008 | 02:54 PM
#14
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Hybrids suck. I just did a paper on alternative fuels, and I compared a euro VW TDI (i forgot which one) to a Prius. The diesel ended up getting 71 MPG while the Prius only got 42 I believe. The diesel also emitted less carbon emissions.
Hydrogen is a great alternative, however, it takes a great deal of energy to extract. It can't be sustainable unless they are using renewable energy to extract the hydrogen.
Hydrogen is a great alternative, however, it takes a great deal of energy to extract. It can't be sustainable unless they are using renewable energy to extract the hydrogen.
03-19-2008 | 06:29 PM
#17
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My buddy is driving a Prius & he's getting 49 MPG. But he even admitted that Prius is such a wussi ... the funny thing is he used to lease a bimmer 545i .... guess he has to change his driving style now ... LOL
i would just have to figure out how to get it from the cylinder to the car
03-19-2008 | 08:48 PM
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03-19-2008 | 08:50 PM
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^ the problem before was that the diesel here is not the same as the diesel being sold in Europe. Diesel over there has better quality (I believe less sulfur). Also gas was much cheaper before and when people hear the word diesel, most of them would think dirty black smoke.
03-20-2008 | 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by iforyou
^ the problem before was that the diesel here is not the same as the diesel being sold in Europe. Diesel over there has better quality (I believe less sulfur). Also gas was much cheaper before and when people hear the word diesel, most of them would think dirty black smoke.
The TSX is expected to get a 2.2 diesel engine in 2009. I'm holding out for one of these.
03-20-2008 | 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by LuvMyTSX
The diesel we have here now is low-sulfur.
The TSX is expected to get a 2.2 diesel engine in 2009. I'm holding out for one of these.
The TSX is expected to get a 2.2 diesel engine in 2009. I'm holding out for one of these.
all diesel engines in model years 2007 or after can't run on "low sulfer" if run the old diesel(which is "low sulfer" not ultra low) it will mess with your injectors and filters.
plus another reason to wait on diesel is. by Jan. 1,2010 by federal law all diesel pumps are required all 50 states to have Ultra low diesel. in california Ultra low already out 100%. (you can't get old diesel in califonia basically)
some stations are holding off due to money. some stations been holding off due to see if the senators and officals change their mind at the last minute and not make stations change. however i believe they'll make them change due to being a cleaner burning diesel.
another reason to wait is Biodiesel. you'll get the same mileage as with Ultra Low diesel. for reduced price(i think the goverment will kick maybe a dollar a gallon at users who use Biodiesel) by 09 or 10 they should have this program in full effect.
also 2010 the next round of diesel regulations. it will be like the 07 regulations but i've heard worse.
it almost took Cat till this year(2008) to their emmission legal on new truck engines.
03-20-2008 | 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by savage
it want a 535d...
engine is rated at 272 hp, 413 lb-ft and averages around 35mpg...
engine is rated at 272 hp, 413 lb-ft and averages around 35mpg...
03-20-2008 | 03:25 PM
#33
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From: Vancouver, BC
Diesel fuel in North America is much less sophisticated, move expensive, and harder to find that what is available in Europe.
I like diesel better than hybrids though. All those batteries have to go somewhere in the end.
I like diesel better than hybrids though. All those batteries have to go somewhere in the end.
03-20-2008 | 03:30 PM
#34
socialism= the suck
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Originally Posted by red00tl
Diesel fuel in North America is much less sophisticated, move expensive, and harder to find that what is available in Europe.
I like diesel better than hybrids though. All those batteries have to go somewhere in the end.
I like diesel better than hybrids though. All those batteries have to go somewhere in the end.
03-20-2008 | 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by stright-(paint)balling
right plus an average hybrid battery last about 7-8 years and with labor and tax cost about 8 grand to replace. so if you're gonna own the car 7-8 years or less you'll probably be okay however if you buy it used or gonna own the car for a long time don't get it.
03-20-2008 | 08:10 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by LuvMyTSX
The diesel we have here now is low-sulfur.
The TSX is expected to get a 2.2 diesel engine in 2009. I'm holding out for one of these.
The TSX is expected to get a 2.2 diesel engine in 2009. I'm holding out for one of these.
I'd seriously consider a diesel TSX if only I have the money....we are talking about 50+mpg?? Even if it costs more for diesel, I still save quite a bit!
03-20-2008 | 08:26 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by charliemike
If you have Car A that emits 20% less than Car B per gallon and gets 20% less fuel economy per gallon, wouldn't that eventually be a wash?
I think the Prius is a brilliant marketing gimmic.
Diesel FTW until Hydrogen finally gets taken seriously.
I think the Prius is a brilliant marketing gimmic.
Diesel FTW until Hydrogen finally gets taken seriously.
There is a point on the graph where the two would meet but only one point, there are a lot more factors that play into that equation, but your point is well taken.
In the end currently at least in the US people are only worried about $ per mile not emissions. If diesels got twice the milage but diesel cost 2.1 times what gas does no one would be interested in diesels...now. In the same vein if US consumers could buy a car with an engine that got 10% better gas milage or spewed 10% less CO2, CO and NOx and price was equal the vast majority would choose better mileage, as some might quip it is the dollars per mile stupid.
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