vishnus11

Ummm, i dont think the TT driver had much choice in this situation....

fast-tl

Seriously! He made his safety choice at the time of purchase (sorry, I couldn't resist.) Sure the roof collapsed, but the rest of the car survived surprisingly well.

vishnus11

"Maximized" is just being an idiot - the TT played a factor in his survival, its a solid car, that has a stronger structure that many vehicles out there, especially if u consider when it came out (1998). I'd have rather been in a 1998 Audi TT, than a 98 F150, or a 98 Isuzu Rodeo or 98 Miata. Heck, I guess that's why I've driven one extennsively and am considering puchasing one.

Even by today's standards, the TT is a very safe vehicle. And not all modern vehicles are equal when it comes to safety. Certain vehicles - Subaru Legacy for example - a rated well for both front and rear impacts, and common sense dictates that one is more likely to survive in such a vehicle in a similar situation such as the TT collision, over the odds of surviving in say a Ford Fusion.

And when it comes to active safety over passive safety, I think (IMO) that many German vehicles have an advantage, espeically when it comes to highway driving. Somehow, the autobahn inspired engineering, means that these cars aren't easily upset by sudden manuvers, and poorly kept highways, and are able to react better. Thats just my opinion, in comparing my TL and other Japenese vehicles to German ones.

Maximized

Hence why I stated he was lucky. A simple look at the statistics will show you that driver error accounts for the majority of accidents.

fast-tl

Well said, from beginning to end.

DownUnder

Audi TT's started from 2000 in the US.

Chemmech

He just got lucky, that car doesn't look intact to me.

F23A4

It's not just you!! I've seen a number of accidients on that stretch of Route 1 and it seems like it became worst since they eliminated that intersection with Nassau Park Blvd. Psychologically (and IMHO), people must subconciously believe that the traffic light still exists because a number of motorist seem to apply their brakes for NO apparent reason in this area.....and it's about 4 lanes wide on the southbound side.

Whiskers

Too many malls, too little Route 1.

F23A4

....not to mention the fact that some of the WORST drivers in NJ live in the Princeton area. Definite recipe for disaster.

Maximized

I was going to point that out, but I didn't want to rub salt in the wound.

fast-tl

Which wound would that be?

"The production model was launched as a coupé in September 1998", according to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_TT#First_generation

You guys really should study more. Car accidents happen all around the world. I swear you guys talk as if cars don't exist outside the U.S. Guess what: they DO!

fast-tl

I think the concensus is that the guy was lucky and that he had enough bucks to afford a nice car.
Can we close this thread already? It's outlived its usefulness unless we're going to continue schooling people on automotive history.

Maximized

Alright you are arguing for the sake of it. First, we all live in the USA(you, me, vishnu) and I purschase my cars in the US. I don't think US consumers compare the safety of Peugeot's or Fiat's? Second, nice source there. Wikipedia is great Keep schooling me Get a good source and learn something for yourself.

Soure: Edmunds
"The Audi TT was introduced for the 2000 model year as a coupe, followed by a roadster in 2001. Both versions are based on Volkswagen's fourth-generation (1999 to 2006) Golf platform. Now seven years into its model cycle, the TT is no longer among the hottest draws on the market, but from an aesthetic standpoint, it remains one of the most distinctive cars on the road. In person, the Audi car looks just right, appearing aggressive and graceful at the same time. The rear boasts rounded flanks and, in coupe form, a cleanly arced roofline. Purposeful styling details are executed with ice-cold precision. The car was an instant classic, and its shape will be a topic of discussion for years. "

Cars.com
"Audi leaped into the sports car field with a passion by turning away from its customary sedans and wagons toward a surprisingly shapely, low-slung TT series. The Audi TT was introduced for the 2000 model year as a four-place Coupe and then a year later as a two-passenger convertible Roadster."

AudiWorld.com
"My first real experience with the TT started in Monterey, California just after the 2000 model press preview held by Audi of America. In the past I've had the opportunity to test-drive two different FWD models, but both times the rides were taken within the city and were over quickly. "

fast-tl

So, are we dueling sources now?
Source: thecarconnection.com
"In appearance and general decoration, the TT hasn't changed much since the car's introduction way back in 1998. There are subtle changes to the front fascia to feed more air to the larger engine, but it's not so different that anyone not paying particular attention.

Source: businessweek.com
Big Turns in Audi's History
1994: The launch of the first Audi A8 with an all-aluminium body, a first for a passenger car

1998: Audi TT coupe debuts

2002: Walter de Silva recruited to Audi as chief designer from Italy's Alfa Romeo

2002: Audi launches second-generation A8 luxury sedan, winning accolades as best car in class
Source: knfilters.com
1998 AUDI TT 1.8L L4 F/I - All
K&N Applications for 33-2128

Source:sportscarmarket.com
Neiman Marcus, the Texas-based high-end department store, has a reputation for over-the-top gifts in its annual Christmas catalog. Jets, a Chinese junk, helicopters and more have been offered in past catalogs. Cars? Neiman Marcus has had them before and since, including a James Bond-edition 1995 BMW Z3, a 1997 Sony GMC Suburban, the 1998 Audi TT

So was the car introduced in 1998, or was it a figment of our imagination?
Mods, please lock this thread. Either the car was introduced in 1998 or it wasn't. Maybe it didn't come here until 2000, but Maximized has never read about or concerned himself with cars not for sale in the US.

fast-tl

^^ All US sites, by the way.

DownUnder

There is no such thing as a pre-2000 model year Audi TT in the US. It debuted in the end of '98/early '99 as a 2000 Audi TT.

Maximized

Again, your sources are wrong. How about this go to Autotrader and try and find a 1998 TT. Good luck finding one

I know a ton about cars outside the US. I probably have a plethora more knowledge about them than you do. Again, I live in the US and am concerned with the vehicles present on our roads.

fast-tl

uh oh, someone better correct audi.com:
http://www.audi.com/audi/com/en1/com...h_audi_tt.html
"A production total of 250,000 for the Audi TT demonstrates the success of this model and the expertise of our Hungarian workforce. This is also reflected by the high level of demand," declared Thomas Faustmann, Managing Director of AUDI HUNGARIA MOTOR Kft., a fully-owned subsidiary of AUDI AG. The Audi TT is exported to over 40 countries worldwide.

Assembly of the TT Coupé started in April 1998 in Györ. 165,000 of the TT Coupé have been built to date.

CLpower

Maximized

Thank you

All a certain person has to do is go to Autotrader.com or Cars.com and search used 1998 Audi TT's. Not a hard concept.

Maximized

Again, read. The original person whom corrected Vishnu stated 2000 in the US. You aren't proving anything but rather showing that you don't read what others post.

fast-tl

Please point out the words U.S., United States, America, etc. THEN tell me I don't read other's posts

fast-tl

We were talking about the safety of the Audi TT. IS it less safe in Europe than the US? If not, then it doesn't matter whether it was released in 98 or 00 in the States.

Maximized

Here let me help you out:

That's the post I responded to. You are arguing for the sake of arguing and are simply wrong. Got that link to a 1998 Audi TT from Autotrader or Cars.com???

CLpower

Maximized

No one short of an Audi engineer can tell you that. Europe has different safety requirements than in the US. Minor tweaks here and there do affect safety. Speaking of Audi TT's, remember how they were unstable when first released due the design?

Crazy Bimmer

fast-tl

What does when the car came to the US have to do with its safety? Vishnu11 said that the TT is a solid car since it came out, which ACCORDING TO THE MANUFACTURER, began production in 1998. How can you argue with that? I even gave you the link to AUDI.COM to verify. What again is your point? I concede that the car came to the US in 2000. That's noy my point. My points are that the Audi TT began production in 1998, and is a safe car, which contributed to the survivability of the crash, versus say the last-generation F-150, which was sold until 2004 (pretty darned recent.)

I think you're trying to point out that since the Autotrader doesn't list any 1998 Audi TT's that there is no such vehicle. Well, not in the US perhaps, but the Audi TT, wherever sold is a safe, solid car. The instability you speak of, was at high speeds, as evidenced in this C&D article:
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=3523
We Take Audi´s Tamed TT for a Spin
By Peter Robinson
February 2000


There appeared to be a problem for Audi and its hot TT, as evidenced by a troubling number of high-profile, high-speed crashes, most of them in Europe, where speed limits are more theoretical. As we reported last month, a recall was issued, and Audi sought to soften the car's handling by taking it closer to the character of a sedan, essentially widening the point where the driver begins to feel the car's significant limits.

As mentioned, the TT's flaw is primarily a Germany-only problem, because it's the only country in Europe where it's legal to exceed 80 mph. One TT driver was killed on a notorious high-speed autobahn curve. A second fatality occurred to an unbelted passenger. Audi reports its accident investigation group has studied 22 totaled TTs. That may sound like a lot, but more than 40,000 TTs have been sold worldwide, and apparently the ratio of accidents is in line with that of other sports cars.
_________________________________

Maximized

Again arguing about nothing. Do you not understand that the US has different safety standards than in Europe? I know very well when the TT began production. Again, you and I both live in the US, lets compare relevant vehicles.

My original point was it doesn't matter the brand, there are plenty of cars that are safe. Albeit Ford, GM, or Audi. This crash was pure luck that the driver survived and if you looked at the pictures you could see that. You can prove me wrong by strapping yourself in a TT and recreate the accident. If you survive I'll conceed it's the Audi engineers that take all the credit. I don't think anyone but mental patients wishing for suicide would attempt that.

vishnus11

man, u just don't seem to understand that the car contributed to his safety, maybe not totally, but definetely partially. Like i said, thank god that guy was in a TT than a kia rio,or f150, or other myriad of cars that perform substandardly in collisions. Whats the deal - u an antiaudi fan?!

And yes the TT came to the US as a 2000 model, but it was available elsewhere as a 1998. Apart from the standard RHD to LHD conversion, I doubt any changes were made to the structure with regards to safety. There MIGHT have been slight changes such as raising the bumper by a few mm to meet bumper regulations over here etc. but in a crash of the magnitude were talking about, I'm willing to bet and am 99% sure that a european TT and a american one (assuming both are coupes) would have performed in the same manner.

vishnus11

Yeah, I did much research on this after my uncle purchased his TT. The general consensus among the automotive enthusiasts (from what I've read) is that many of these owners, who wouldn't ordinarilly have invested in a sports car (and thus were most likely not sports car enthusiasts) bought the TT, and found themselves running out of talent. The car was designed with neutral handlin in mind, but after many "clientile" started runnin out of talent, Audi dialed in some understeer and added ESP.

Its the same with S2000's. 00-03 S2k were prone to oversteer if handled incorrectly by inexperienced users - just go to s2ki.com to hear and see all the wrecks and incidents caused by new S2k drivers spinning out. For 04+ Honda dialed in some understeer, and for 06 they've added VSA.

In both these cases, the owners of these vehicles often ran out of talent before the car did.

cusdaddy

The point being argued here isn't anything against Audi. The point is that Audi didn't place any safety "special-sauce" in the creation of the TT. The TT has excellent safety ratings, much like many other cars on the road. I'll compare it against my 350Z. From govt testing, the 350Z equals in all and outperforms the TT in one safety rating. Does that mean the 350Z is special? No. Both are just safe cars like many many others on the road..

Would it perform better than a Neon or a Kia, probably, but it comes down to the safety ratings of that specific car you are looking at.

At the end of the day, it was a combination of a safe car and luck that saved the driver.

Maximized

Exactly. If you actually look at the picture, you can tell what happened. You actually took the time to actually look at the pictures of the crash, others haven't or don't know what to look for.

FYI...My dad has owned plenty of German cars and currently drives a 545i. He used to have a A8L.

fast-tl

Cussdaddy,
You nailed it. I never inplied that the TT was the poster child for safety, simply that like your Z, it has a good safety rep that contributed to the driver's survival. I didn't say that no other car was safe, simply that he was in a safe car. Maximized seems hell-bent on saying the car played no role; that it was only luck. I disagree. He pointed out that the Ford 500 is safer than the Audi A6, which might well be since the 500 is essentially a Volvo S80 under the skin. Same principle with the latest Chevy Mailbu; its underpinnings are shared with a Saab, another marque whose rep hinges on safety. Those two points alone should indicate that the safety rep of a *particular* vehicle has a impact, literally, on crash performance. The special sauce IS excellent safety ratings. Some carmakers add it, some don't.

Maximized

Did you look at the pictures? The cabin was breached. Again I can post many manufacturers that have great safety ratings, it just isn't Audi or Volvo.

vishnus11

Crazy Bimmer

TT can neva lose!

fast-tl

^^ See, experts agree

vishnus11