Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=282

the new TFSI 2.0T is putting out more power than my 2.0T. And the tuning program for the 2.0T in the B8 A4 is crazy...

http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_up...sivl_long.html

Hence my previous post...

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...4&postcount=18

I knew it was the same engine, just didn't know if they set up the tunes to be identical in both cars.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

This is how my wife's B7 A4 was optioned and we were OTD for around $32k.

Great deal, great car and we loved that A4 more then any Acura I owned and b/c of that, you don't mind paying a little bit more for the Audi. It was also a completely different owner experience and even though it was only an A4 it felt like we bought into a much higher-end brand. It made Acura feel like Honda. It's hard to explain, but we were treated as if we bought an A8. It didn't matter that it was just an A4... everyone got treated the same.

The thing about Audi is that the demographics of an Audi buyer are typically higher then Mercedes and BMW. So the people who are buying Audi's can afford Audi's without any trouble. Audi prices their cars higher, but since the people buying them have the money, they don't care.

The people who do care are the people who make $70k/yr. They are the ones looking for a deal on a car, so they go to BMW or Mercedes. The guy/gal making $120k+ doesn't care as much and they just buy what they like.

May or may not be a good strategy. Audi sells much less cars, but they're still around and still very popular. And as was mentioned in another thread, in Europe Audi outsells BMW and Mercedes combined... so they're doing something right. As Audi continues to win market share in the US the prices will drop b/c they'll make it up in volume.

iTimmy

^^^^ It sounds like you have a great dealership in your area, that can make a slight premium on the car much more reasonable. In this area it seems that all dealers are fairly poor, so the only good dealership experience is no dealership experience.

Perhaps I'm being hard on the local dealers, I have had a good experience with the big local Honda dealer and in the late 90's when I was looking at an A4 they were extremely accommodating... that said, that era audi was probably the pinnacle of their unreliability so it's a good thing that I ended up with a different car!

I also agree with your assessment of car buyers, it's much easier to be less frugal when you have more disposable income. You can purchase what you want and value is less of a factor.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

That could be the case. We had an Audi dealer in NY which was combined with a VW dealer... and the sales experience was different, however, service was service. Didn't matter if you had a Jetta or A6. Now, that was over 5 years ago, so things have changed, but we were not impressed.

I do have a few friends with Audi's in NY and they love their dealers as well. Not sure who they use... but they live in lower Westchester County.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

And I think that is a HUGE point. I also think it's something that most people on a forum like this do not consider b/c most of us forum users are looking for bang for the buck.

So immediately people cry overpriced when really, for the people who are buying these cars... most don't care and just buy it b/c they like/want it...

Belzebutt

Here in Ottawa the dealer had a black/black A5 2.0T S-Line for the past few days, today I went to sit inside to see how the S-Line package looks, because this interior is nearly identical to what I will get in my upcoming A4 Avant (coming end of August now hopefully!)

So anyway, the car looks hot outside, but holy fawk did I ever love the interior. Black dash with real aluminum accents, black alcantara on the seats and doors, white stiching, and black headliner. The black headliner adds a wicked feeling to the car, I don't think I've ever been in a car with all black pillars/ceiling before. I was afraid it would feel cavernous but no, it looks hella cool.

I thought all this black would be bland but this is way better than a standard black interior, the alcantara and the white stiching provide some cool variation and it all just looks really upscale. I looked inside the R8 V10 they had in the showroom, and I thought wow, my car's interior is better than an R8.

I can't wait to get my A4, holy crap I cannot wait.

S14 n Tsx

They already got the R8 v10? holy smoke... We won't be getting ours for another month or two.

S-line is bit pricey, but definitely makes the car so much better.... only retarded thing about S-line is that you can only get S-line in prestige.

cp3117

I was surprised too....Last week i was at Glenmore Audi in Calgary looking to see what they had in stock and they just pulled 3....YES 3....R8 V10's off the truck and the lot guy was putting sold stickers in them already. There was a 4th one out front with either BC or Ont demo plates on it that all the sales staff where taking turns driving.

Sales in Canada for Audis are off the charts I think (at least in Calgary) as no one seems to have stock (+52% sales increase last month ). I heard a rumor at Audizine that they are releasing 2010's from the docks early because of stock issues.......Seems weird considering the economy and other numbers with manufactuers.

Saintor

For a 4-cyl. it is very bad. The 3.2 should have been std, like in the Q5.

JD23

Similarly equipped, the A5 2.0T is priced about the same as the 328 xi coupe and I would definitely take the A5 over the BMW.

S14 n Tsx

I will definitely take A5 2.0T over 328 xi for sure, too.

jim165

This car was never on my radar screen until I stumbled upon a 2010 2.0T in black at DFW Audi just yesterday! I mean, there isn't much advertising about it. All I can say is WOW...what a gorgeous car...until I saw the price...and I had to change my drawers!
$45K is kinda hard to justify for a 4cyl car, and this one wasn't even loaded (no S-line pkg (but did have the 19" Y spokes), no navi, and it didn't look like it had the Tech pkg...didn't see the push button start).
I suppose I'll wait for the tremendous depreciation Audis tend to undergo before purchasing one.
Gorgeous car though...especially from the rear 3/4 view

S14 n Tsx

are you talking about 09 model 3.2 or 2010 2.0T? because you obviously didn't look close enough.

If you are talking about 2010 A5 model then you need to go check again. 2010 A5 option package changed to premium, premium plus, and prestige package. So, bascially if you don't get a premium plus, you won't be getting Bi-Xenon headlight w/ LED DRL and no LED tail... You need premium plus to get those now, and start button is only on prestige now..

I don't know what you saw, but $45k 2.0T should have premium plus w/ navi.

jim165

Look, foo...I remember what I saw as far as the car itself is concerned. I didn't study the packages as I just wanted to see the price. I'll just describe what I saw. I don't remember the intricacies of the MFR data sheet...just the bottom line price and maybe a couple of options...


2010 A5 2.0T
Black
19" Y spokes
6 speed manual
2.0T badge on right rear
No buttons whatsoever around shifter (which I assume = no navi and no premium plus)
No S-line trim since the badge was missing from front fender. The 3.2 sitting next to it had this trim.
Price looked to have been like $44,200 or something like that.
I remember B and O speakers were specified near the bottom of sheet, but that's about it...

majin ssj eric

The dealer you went to may have marked it up because its new....

S14 n Tsx

okay foo, chill.

they obviously marked it up for no stupid reason. We have $44k A5 2.0T that is premium plus w/ navi.

stupid stealership. why would they put a premium on that car? If it was R8 V10, then I can understand...

1killercls

Sure do. My 18k 2006 Mazdaspeed 6 will smoke ya. But I guess some people NEED to spend a lot on a car with sub standard performance if they think it will make them look cool.

1killercls

Just goes to show ya....

GIBSON6594

show you what? People like good looking cars?

1killercls

Nevermind.

GIBSON6594

Don't patronize me. If you have something to say, blurt it out. What's this great argument you have that is too good for me to hear?

1killercls

Relax..I just guess the thought process is different when buying a car when you are younger...which I just dont remember ever buying a car for its looks alone. Not to mention upkeep cost, and poor resale value. The Audi is indeed a fine looking car...but 42k for a slow car...no thanks. Dont take it so personal.

Costco

though its unfair to directly compare a new car with a used car.

The biggest problem about the A4/5 is that both variants in brand-new stock form are underpowered, overpriced and overweight. You can justify it any way you want, but styling is subjective. Some people will definitely spend more simply because a car looks better than another, but hey, Audi did good by hiring the designer that they did. Better than shooting themselves in the foot like Acura is doing.

I suppose I could understand the reasoning as there are some cars, no matter how good, that I just will not buy because of styling. But again, that doesn't apply to an overpriced car, no matter how good it looks.

1killercls

cp3117

I agree that styling is subjective but what are you comparing them to in order to say that they are underpowered, overpriced and underweight?

All I have seen so far is people here comparing an A4/A5 to cars like a Mazdaspeed 6 and a used TSX etc which arent even in the same category as the Audi's. There are many cars faster and cheaper than most Tier 1 luxury or entry level luxury cars.

When comparing the Audi A or S models to its competition they are very competitive. The new S4 is priced the same (if not cheaper) than the 335ix and is lighter and has more power. The A4 2.0T has similar power and weight as a 328ix and I believe is priced the same if not cheaper also.

I agree that the 3.2 is not a great value but this is probably why its being dropped in the A4 this year and probably the A5 next year (2011). IMO i dont think people are justifying anything but just looking at the facts.

TinkySD

The new TT is the only current model where Audi tried to drop weight and make a better performing car than the previous version. I'm not quite sure why they didn't use the same tools(aluminum frame, etc) on their new a4/a5.

I can tell you that at 2900lbs(and chipped) the 2.0T is very far from underpowerd. But add another 600lbs to lug around and performance and mpg will not be affcted.

iTimmy

You bring up a lot of good, and valid points. I think a lot of peoples gripes stem from the fact that the base engine is the same engine that can be had in a VW for $21k, and a somewhat lower resale value then vehicles in the same class. Both of these items seem to lower perceived value to a lot of consumers. At the same time it means great deals can be had on pre-owned vehicles and parts for the engine are "affordable" and more readily available.

Besides, we are all in a free country, we have the right to purchase whatever we want for whatever reason(s) we may or may not want to justify to others. When I was in the automotive biz it was shocking the key factors a lot of consumers based their purchases on and how little actual knowledge they had. We often take for granted that we are automotive enthusiasts and these are not just cars to us, but part of a hobby and lifestyle. To a lot of people a specific color being available or a catchy name can be enough to help them make a decision.

Costco

I'm comparing the A4/5 2.0T to their competition. Here's one that everyone will love: the new Acura TL SH-AWD. Styling aside, similarly equipped the TL SH-AWD costs nearly $2000 less. I included the top-of-the-line TL SH-AWD with HPT and the 2.0T Prestige with S-line package and tiptronic.

The funny thing is that even at over $40,000 the base A5 doesn't even have HID headlamps. That's laughable on a "premium" coupe, and its a tactic that BMW also uses so that people have to tack on another couple grand or more because of the requirement of a package to get bi-xenons. Similarly equipped (they both have quite different packages) a G37 Sport coupe came out to be anywhere from $4-6,000 less than the A5. Even then the G37's performance absolutely trumps the A5's. With the G37x I suppose the comparison is a bit more even, but the AWD package is an option (and I'm being generous here) I'm guessing fewer than 15% of customers choose.

taitando

I'd say you can say the same thing about the 328i/335i coupes compared to the A5. My local BMW dealer doesn't really stock any XI awd coupes, but where I live it's not really necessary to have AWD. With that being the case in my region, you can't help but compare the A5 to the RWD BMW coupes, in addition to the G37's.

As far as pricing goes, the A5 2.0T prices competitively with the 328i. I guess most people would say the same about the A5 3.2 vs the 335i, but enthusiasts know the 335i walks all over the A5 3.2 (and, as frequently shown, the S5 as well).

Currently, my local dealer inventory shows the following:

A5 2.0T $45k-$48k
328i $45k-$47k

A5 3.2 $47k-$53k
335i $49k-$52k

The upper range of pricing being complete with Navigation and probably most other options.

S14 n Tsx

I don't know how much 335ix goes for, but it's not going to be cheaper for sure....S4 is going to be in high $50k.

Costco

All that said thanks for posting the pics.... I didn't know the A5 2.0T was available quite yet. Its a gorgeous car, even more so in S5 guise.

taitando

If I had the money and could only choose between an A5 2.0T and a 328i, I'd definitely go for the Audi. Not so sure about the Audi when we get into the A5 3.2 vs 335i price range.

majin ssj eric

Even though I agree that the Audi's price is ridiculous, I would still rather have a "slow" A5 over a POS Mazda regardless of how much faster it may be. At the next light you might get to look like a stupid ricer with a grin, but you'd still be in a crappy econobox while I'd be in a faaaaaar superior car all around....

Acuraluvr

iTrader: (2)

sexy shit

JD23

The A5 is certainly more luxurious than a Mazdaspeed 6, but I don't see how anyone could consider the Mazda 3 or 6 a POS unless he is a total brand-whore. Also, the Mazda may not be a luxury car, but it is certainly not an econobox. Something like a Chevy Aveo is an econobox, not a Mazdaspeed 6.

Blazin Si

Does the turbo spool quickly on the 2.0T? I've been wondering if the engine has enough grunt to move the car before the turbo spools. My 2.2CL is a dog and I'm sure the A5 has to be heavier than that.

1killercls

Exactly.

F23A4

I love the A5, A4, BMW E90 and E92. I think they are superbly engineered performance cars that can be optioned with impressive options. But , they are simply overpriced.

I'm with Killer on this one. I have a hard time rationalizing the purchase of a well equipped Audi A4 2.0T Quattro -- which prices just north of $40k -- when a similarly equipped Subaru Legacy 2.5GT Spec B stickers @ $35k. (Knock about $2k+ off the Suby's price if non-Spec B.)

Also, the only Mazda that may qualify as being a POS is the RX-8....of which my best friend's has had troubles nonstop.

1killercls

Thank you sir.

ThermonMermon

i agree its overpriced, but its all relative to audi pricing in general.

and theres no point in arguing that it should be priced between audi x or audi y...audi pricing structure could range from base price to 150% base price with options, engine size, packages. shit, an a4 is what- ~30k to ~47k?

however, comparing one audi to a non-audi is always bank breaker. look at the units of comparison - HP, torque, luxury options, performance options. i am a very technical person when car shopping - i would never buy an audi. it disgusts me whenever i look closely at the dollar value of an audi - esp. in lease form. no, im not cheap, but theres a difference between being cheap and being smart with your money.

and those that justify paying top dollar for a stripped audi (40k 2.0T) for what? your non-performing 211 hp car with the same, or less, features you could find on any japanese/korean 20k car.

summary:
you want a real audi, then you gotta pay 10-15k+ over low-line base price to actually get that german luxury performance you are looking for. these base prices from audi are insulting, and a cheap way of watering down their pricing to enter a class/territory in which is doesnt belong.