Liftedoff420

im getting kinda tired of my 2000 TL....mostly becuase of the high miles, AT, and the tranny issue...so im kinda testing the waters of whats our there....i can get rid of the TL for at least 11 grand.....and one car that caught my eye in that price range is the Camaro

anyone owned or knows alot about these?

gas mileage?
models? which ones the fastest and has a 5spd?
known problems? (such as tranny issue)
anyone who owned knows any defects or flaws with interior...etc

anything you kno is helpful.....i got an itch for a black camaro with some loud ass flowmasters....some dude in my area is interested in trading for a 99+ TL so i need some background info

DownUnder

Never had one but here is some good info about them:

http://www.ls1.com/index_faq.html

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213148

http://www.f-body.org/faq/4/index.htm

keg1997

Let me ask my buddy Vinnie from Jersey about his

sbuswell

camaro's are very unreliable. it will be a nightmare!

DownUnder

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Re...P&tab=6&sub=-1

bigman

Are you on drugs? Any 98-02 LS1 Powered F body will outlast most cars on the road. My friend has a 98 with 180,000 miles on the clock. The car has been modded since 98 with heads, cam, exhaust, intake, tune and other things. He has done regualr maintaining, timing chain and thats it. No leaks, no problems at all. The car is his daily driver, beaten daily, and with the 180,000 on the clock. He dynoed 580 horses and runs high 10's on slicks low 11's on street tires all motor. Making a comment like you did is ignorant. I have owned both a TL and currently a Trans Am, and my TL lost 4 trannies in 2 years along with other stupid things. My TL was less reliable than my high mileage Trans Am. And to the original poster, if you get a low mileage car that hasnt been beaten up, it will run great for a long time and take to mods very well. Yes the car squueks, yes it rattles, yes it makes engine noises that you cant explain, but the first time you mash the gas and leave that line sideways, you will forget about everything else.

iTimmy

I don't think they'll sell you a camaro if you don't have a mullet- this may have changed, but last I knew they wouldn't.....

bigman

Gas Mileage on my 98 is about 280 miles on one tank with a good normal driving and beating on it mix.

Any 01-02 are better, because they have the LS6 intake manifold and slightly fre-er flowing exhaust manifolds, but if you plan on modding, that means nothing.

The trannies are great, there is no 5 speed, its either a 4 speed auto, or a 6 speed. The 4 speed is great with a high stall converter. With a converter it will run a manual from a roll and destroy one off the line. Auto and Manual trannies are bulletproof up till around 450 wheel horses, then its a good idea to strengthen them up. But stock, it will last you a long time.

Only know problem really is the rear end, they are good up until that 450 horses mark, then your best bet is to get a stronger unit. Stock, they are good and you have nothing to worry about.

And as far as the flowmasters, they sound great on an LS1, but flow like shit and have been known to rob some horsepower, so get rid of that muffler asap and go with a magnaflow to replace it.

Other than that the car is solid, you can do the typical bolts ons and have about 400 wheel horses, and not worry aboiut a thing.

bigman

LOL, funny thing though, is most of these LS1 F-body guys spend on average 10-15 k modding their cars. And most are very professional men that have other cars on the side. That stereotype is strong with the 3rd gen f body guys though, when you check their pics out, it's always an 85 z28 next to a trailer.

DownUnder

When I think of mullets IROC's comes to mind.

StypeCL

LOL My 60 year old mother drives a 98 Z28 droptop!!

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

The fourth generation is no redneck car. A Trans Am WS6 stickered for over 31k dollars new, and the insurance rates are very high. It's not a cheap car to maintain, either.

I don't think rednecks living in trailers have the means to afford a fourth generation F-body. It's only with the earlier generations.


Having said that, the build quality is below par, so don't expect it to feel like your TL. The interior is full of cheap materials. All the money went into the engine and the drivetrain. It's a beast.

By the way, you'll never stop hearing your passengers bitch about the hump on the floor.

Like bigman said, try to find an '01-'02, because those make a little more power due to the updated parts including like the Corvette Z06 intake manifold. When I used to be on LS1.com, an '02 WS6 6-speed put down 330+ rwhp. They are rated at 325 hp (but really 350). Yeah, it's a little on the extreme side, but the newer F-body will put down anywhere from 290-320 horsepower at the wheels on average.

Handling is actually quite impressive, despite how big it looks and is. It feels heavy, yeah, but it's still nimble and handles great for its size. If you can find one with the 1LE suspension option, then get that (unless you plan on modifying the suspension, anyway).

Go on www.ls1.com and www.ls2.com for lots of information. Very helpful stuff on LS1/LS2/LS6, just like AZ with Acuras.

MattT516

Since you live in California, I'd probably opt for a last-generation Camaro SS 6-speed without a doubt if I were you. I've always said that if I lived in a hot climate all year I'd have a RWD sports car, so what are you waiting for? Of course the gas will kill you, but nothing beats good 'ol muscle in terms of performance.

I'm almost sure the SS was the high-end model, followed by the Z28 and the (boring) RS. Go for an SS 6-speed, you won't regret it.

CLater

ls1 camaros are very reliable, and very quick daily drivers. with the right bolt ons they can run deep in to the 13s... sometimes high 12s.

the ss only has 10 more hp that the Z.. so unless you REALLY want that hood scoop and spoiler.. the z is a better deal, but lack the resale value/collectability.. both are 6 speeds as was every v8 camaro since 93.

want more info.. PM me, ill type your ear off. ive built up a few of these cars, and can tell you anything you wanna know.

oh, and BTW.. i HAVE an IROC... and do not have a mullet. its faster than the CL, gets more looks, more compliments, and does not sound like a wind up toy.

bigman

I agree with you on everything except for the deep 13's with bolt ons. My car ran a 13.2 with just an exhaust andf lid, any morebolt ons, like headers, intake manifold, throttle body, and i will be hitting mid 12's no problem.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

10 more horsepower? They are all the same engines, man. The 315/325 hp ratings are only there to make the Vette owners happy. Except on paper, Z28/SS/Formula/Trans Am/WS6/Corvette all have the same engine.

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

When I think of Camaro I think of this. Oh if only the pockets were deeper.

Nicky Pass

Yenko.....

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

bigman

Shit i didnt even see that, yep an LS1 is an LS! and makes the same horspower in all the applications. The firehawk and ss may have a few extra horses because they get the SLP Dual dual exhaust. And the 01-02 model gets the LS6 intake manifold and better exhaust manifolds. Other than that, thats it. Oh, with headers, 98-00's have gotten a little better power, because they have a little better cams than the 00-01 model. But from 97-02 all LS1's dynoed withing a few horses from each other.

Doom878

Is the gas mileage between the auto and manual really different? I heard that the 6spd gets high 20's easy. Is it the same automatic tranny for the new GTO?

Liftedoff420

THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO!!

a couple things..

1. i live in the city, so a 6spd would probably be a bitch
2. whats the HP on the v6, and whats the hp on the z28 v8, is it a very noticeable differance
3. realistically, with hard driving mixed with city, whats the MPG i would get? would i even reach 20s? does it run on 89 or 91 gas?? i rarely hit 20s when im driving city in the TL but its 91

overall, i love my TL due to the luxury and its pimpness, but im inching close to 100k and i dont really wanna fuck with these transmissions

over the summer im definately gonna test drive a few maros....what do you guys think is better? maros? trans am? firebird? dodge stealth? mustangs?

Liftedoff420

how are the aftermarket parts for these cars? more expensive than acura aftermarket like comptech?


how much would good headers, exhaust, all that cost on average??

Liftedoff420

WOW...the camaro has a much better reliablity than the TL

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Re...mid=-1&src=vip

i guess the only sacrifice is the leather interior and all that luxury...camaro interiors dont look to nice

DownUnder

Yea, I noticed that too. At least the older ’96-’98 TL’s have an excellent reliability record all across the board.

BEETROOT

do NOT get an automatic v6....

mustangs > the rest of those

and dodge stealth does not belong in that group.

Doom878

That MSN site is awesome.

You're going to have major culture shock goin from a TL to a Camaro. Better test drive them good.

bigman

Do not get a V6 FBody, you will hate it. It has no soul. The V6 from 98-02 has 200 horses and 225lb ft of tq. The horsepower on the V-8 is around 345 crank horses, although they are underated as to not piss of vette owners, they dyno similar to vettes though. With mixed city and highway driving, along with beating on the car i make around 275 miles per tank. The car runs on Premium only. Dodge stealth already has age on it, i'd stay away from the mitsu turbo motor unless it has low miles and is maintainedvery well. If you think a new acura tranny is expensive, wait till you have to replace something on a stealth. If you are going to go the muscle car route, then go with the LS1, unlessits a Supercharged cobra, nbo stock mustang can fuck with a stock LS1, maybe the Mach 1 can hang but thats about it. My personal favorite is the Trans Am. Wherever i go with that car i get attention from everyone. And when i take the t tops off, everyoneis alway looking. I love my trans am. ust test drive a few and get feel forn the car. Going from a car that makes barely 190 horses to the wheels, to a car that makes about 300 to the wheels can be quite overwhelming. Plus, the lack of luxury can be a turn off.The car rides hard and drives hard.

Doom878

How many gallons is the tank so I can divide to get mpg?

1killercls

dom

I've always loved Camaro's. Back in 97 I just about bought one. Got a GS-R instead.

bigman

hahahaha

I have the 1LE suspension package on my car with adjustable bilsteins, bigger front and rear sway bars, and progressive springs, it handles like a dream on the twisties.

It's just a little hairy when doing 150, it feels touchy.

FastAcura

fast-tl

Having owned a '97 Z28 with Borla Exhaust and K&N intake, atuo with t-tops (a must!), this was hands-down my most reliable, enjoyable car. I was an idiot to get rid of it for a new 2000 Altima! I tell everyone it was my own personal amusement park ride. I took it to the strip and embarassed many a Mustang. I sometimes think about getting another just as a toy, but there's a difference between ME having beaten on my own, Mobil-1-since-3k-miles, well-maintained version and one I just saw on AutoTrader. Just watch out for accident damage. Otherwise, these cars are solid (thay HAVE to be to do 150mph and not fly apart). Powertrain is a no-brainer; you KNOW it's solid 'cause it's virtually identical to the Vette. Find one cheap, have it inspected (www.usedcarinspections.com) and get ready to HAVE FUN! My 7-year old son STILL remembers that carm and we got rid of it when he was 3 years old.

fast-tl

For encouragement, I could post some of my drag racing vids on the 1/8th mile track, along with some burning rubber footage. Why did I EVER sell that car???

Pro Stock John

I own www.ls1tech.com along with my partner.

I suggest looking at the classifieds on the following two boards to get a feel for pricing on V6's vs LS1's:

www.ls1tech.com
www.firebirdv6.com/www.camarov6.com (same board)

V6 A4 is like a 15.2 car stock.
LS1 A4 is like a 13.5 car stock.

I'd go with the V8. 3.8 V6 cars are nice but if you want power, it will cost a lot to get one into the 13's.

I've had a 98 Camaro SS 6MT, and now have a 2005 TL 6MT and the 98 Formula that is my avatar.

Good luck!

srika

Pro Stock John! wow crazy to see you here, small world - congrats on the new TL. You don't know me personally but let's just say I used to drive a MKIV Supra a few years ago and I had a few run-ins with LS1 peeps on more than one occasion.... the most memorable being with Seb on 355...

cheers,

rasidel

TL260power

kinda looks like the 05 GT

Liftedoff420

"my patna nates got a Z28, and if the cops get behind him boy, he finna shake!" - Rip Mac Dre

fast-tl

^^well, THAT'S a convincing argument^^