GIBSON6594

Don't get me wrong, I think the Accord is a great car, one of the best. But it seems to pale in comparison to the likes of the Maxima or the new Avelon, or Legacy GT. Not by alot, but it seems Honda could do better with their Flagship.

Not looking for flames hear, I am a HUGE supporter of Honda and Acura products.

cM3go

When you think about it, you can't really compare the Accord to the Avalon, or the Maxima... so where is Honda's flagship car? Maybe they realized they don't need one, the Accord does phenomenal for them.

iTimmy

Same holds true with Acura and the RL, they should really make a car to compete with the LS430 and flagship benzs' and BMW's. The RL is more along the lines of an E class, 5 series or GS- I think they are possibly missing out on a great oportunity.

CLpower

I think they are doing just fine. They are almost in a market of their own.

Fossil_TL

well i think it's like this. accord > altima and camery, TL > maxima and avalon

MADCAT

Do they really need one? Accord is selling well. Why waste money on a product that will sell in low numbers?

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Honda doesn't need another "flagship" because that would take sales away from the Acuras. The RL is the current top of line model, but it have been mentioned before that a top level model is in the works that will compete in LS, S-class, and 7-series territory.

MADCAT

Please forward this to VW.

Thank You.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Screw VW. If they haven't figured this out on their own, I'll be happy to watch their demise.

cob3683

Honda doesnt need to put make anything higher in price than the RL. Almost everyone that buys a 745i, A8, XJ8, S500, etc., are looking for a status symbol, and a $75,000 Honda/Acura won't do that for them.

MADCAT

What would be great for the line is a an Accord with major upgrades to the engine, suspension, etc.

sipark

You forgot the tail lights.. Or have they already revised them??

matelot

isn't that called TL ?

M TYPE X

^^^

GIBSON6594

People, I'm talking about Honda, not Acura. I'm comparing Honda to the other Japanese makers, Infiniti, Toyota, Nissan. You can't use Acura models to take the place of models that Honda doesn't have. Thats not what i'm talking about.


Bascally it it seems like this to me in the lineups:
Honda Nissan Toyota
Civic = Sentra = Corolla/Celica

Accord = Altima = Camry

????? = Maxima = Avalon

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Honda does not need a Maxima or Avalon. Why step into a market that doesn't require your presence? Plus, Honda doesn't have a good platform to use to develop such a car and it would be a colossal waste of money at this point.

SiGGy

You are aware that "Acura" is just a US marketing name right? it doesn't really exist. "acura" is not a manufacturer, it's a brand name for the US car snobs that won't purchase a luxury Honda. All the "Acura" cars here are called "honda" everywhere else. i.e. "Honda NSX", "Honda Inspire" (TL in japan)... Acura does not exist anywhere but in the US, Honda does exist everywhere. Honda re-names their car so you feel better about spending more on a "Honda" inthe united states. US is snobby...

And "infinity" is a US marketing name for "Nissan". Same thing... You mention it as something to compare to "Honda", but you won't include Acura cars. But it's just the US Nissan luxury brand name. In Japan "Nissan Skyline" in the US "Infinity G35"...

So when comparing "Honda" one should include all of their cars (acura). Same /w toyota (lexus) and nissan (infinity)

MSZ

You are comparing Honda to what? Infiniti?

GIBSON6594

No, typed infiniti by mistake. My bad. I'm comparing Honda to Nissan, Toyota, and partially Subaru. Basically the japanese auto makers it competes with.

But come on people!!!! Do any of you know how to read??????

Yes I know what Acura is, as well what Infiniti and lexus are. I'm not talking about that though. I am talking about Honda.

I've gotten like 3 responses that have to do with what i'm talking about. One was CG about the platform being different and it not being cost worthy. That makes sense.

Telling me that Acura is a N.A. marketing tool DOESNT ANWSER THE QUESTION.

I know Acura is Honda, but Acura makes different cars and have a different model lineup. THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT THE ACURA LINEUP however, or about the lexus lineup, or Infiniti. ITS ABOUT THE HONDA LINEUP and how it compares to the non-luxary divisions it competes with.

Hope that clears it up a bit

iTimmy

Accord DX/LX= Altima = Camry

Accord EX V6 = Maxima = Avalon

Doesn't seem like a tough choice to me, the Accord EX V6 w/navi. is one hell of a car at a great price. The avalon is just an over priced camry- IMO. Honda just doesn't choose to market a new model to make there senior citizen customer's happy(re: avalon).

Hope that clears it up a bit.

AcuraGT-3

Well let see. If Acura's top line model is equivilent to a AWD A6 V-6 or M35 AWD or GS AWD, why would we think a flagship above the Accord woud happen?

They need to fix the current Accord, amazing interior and drivetrain etc, ugly exterior. Sales have been down for awhile now.

The Honda lineup has always been very small compared to competitors. Accord and Civic sedan for the last 20 years or so. Hell, we just got a V-6 in the Accord 10 years ago. Honda is about economy and efficiency, not luxury. That is what other car makers are for

SiGGy

yes, we all know how to read. Which is why we answered what you said correctly. Maybe you need to learn how to write

Acura doesn't make cars, honda does and sells them as "Acuras" your wording keeps making it sound like you believe Acura is a manufacturer. I bolded you in the quote above. Sorry, couldn't resist poking the bear.

I think the Accord is best in class if your comparing those brands.

Nissan-> maxima.
Toyota-> Camry
Subaru->whatever

Infamous425

maximas and avalons dont sell well enough for honda to care about making a competitive car

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

They have one, its called the TL.

phile

I like the idea of a bigger Accord.

GIBSON6594

Nowhere in my original post did I mention anything about Acura. All you guys threw it into the mix. Again, I was talking about Honda, and only only Honda. I guess we are just not reading eachother correctly. I was trying to spark a topic, but it seems to have gone astray.

Also like I said previously, I know that Acura=Honda. Its just not what I asking about. I'm leaving the luxuary brands out of it.

Acura does have a different model lineup than honda, so I don't see it fit to compare the Acura lineup to the Nissan or Toyota lineup.

The questions remains if anyone else still cares , whether or not the HONDA flagship can hold it's water compared to the other NON-luxary flagships.

I'll also repeat for flame sake "I am a huge supporter of Honda and Acura products"

SteVTEC

I agree.

HONDA needs something to fill the void in their lineup between a $25k Accord EX V6 and a $32k TL. I don't need or want a "snobby" luxury label like Lexus, Infiniti, or Acura and am not willing to pay extra for it either. So another Maxima (to replace my 99) or an Avalon are at the top of my list right now. I also don't want/need leather, huge stereo systems, bluetooth and all of that other stuff. With the TL, I'm forced into buying a bunch of stuff that I really don't even want in the first place. I guess there's the TSX but I'm looking only at autos this time around so the wife can drive it too, it's a little small for my needs, and a TSX 5AT is a low/mid-16 second car vs the Avalon and Maxima which will both do mid/high-14's with autos for the same price. nah.

The JDM Inspire would be great. It's got i-VTEC VCM for better mileage and wouldn't have all of the extra costs associated with hybrid hardware and could be sold for an MSRP of about $27-28k I bet. I guess the Accord Hybrid is as good as it gets as far as a Maxima and Avalon competitor for the US market.

SteVTEC

well I hear ya loud and clear.


This is "ACURAzine" though, which is why you're getting a bunch of blank stares. Wrong demographics.

Water-S

Toyota does use the Camry for a lot of other models other than the camry
like the Solora,Avalon, and Lexus ES.
does Honda need a upgraded Accord. I don't think so. I think Honda/Acura needs a better upgraded in house tuner division. Benz has the infamous AMG, BMW has M(like the M3,M5) Jag has the R line, like the S type R, i heard Lexus is coming out with a "GT" line which will be like the AMG line of Benz's (where a inhouse tuner cranks them up and still has warrenty), Yes Honda/Acura has A-Spec package , but hell for 5 grand do you really get that much performance. IMO no. all you get (on the TL) is special springs, larger rims, a little better brakes, special badges on the inside and outside), different spoiler, basically small crap. nothing for actually raw speed.

SiGGy

Well, my 1st response was to the included "infinity" brand name. But you later corrected that in a post. However you choose to call Acura a manufacturer so I responded again. Yes, only in the US Honda does have two different brand names and line-ups. However all the cars are made by Honda.

For the "Honda" non-luxury US market
No the Accord is best in class... as I said last time

A car /w anything more would compete against Honda's US luxury brand name.

GIBSON6594

This was all I was looking for, even though It took about 4 back-and-forth posts to get it.

But still, I still didn't even start talking about Acura untill YOU guys brought it up. My original question had nothing to do with Acura. Thats what your failing to realize.

I'll say it again...I know Acura=Honda, and that Acura is a N.A. luxary division for Honda. Your telling me these things like they are important to the original question. They have nothing to do with it.

But thanks for giving your opinion to my question.

SiGGy

LOL, your welcome. haha, sorry you took it so seriously. You obviously didnt' my "poking the bear" joke. I was just messing with you based on your wording which was a bit loose

Well, no they are important. Because you have to compare their closest model to realize if they can/would update. And do they need too? Since they have a split marketing strategy they wouldn't want the cheaper/non-luxury brand to be out done by it's kid brother.

heyitsme

It would be nice if they had a larger car than the accord without the luxury label. The new maxima sells pretty well, ~6k units/month which shows there is a market. The new avalon will most likely also sell well with its features. They could use a modified accord platform.

aaronnn

yeah. definitly agree..

there are alot of honda fans out there, imean they ARE known to be reliable, so they would rather go for a honda rather than a (for example) nissan maxima.. it would be nice to have a bigger honda sedan that'll compete with nissan maxima and toyota avalon. they deserve to play with the bigger dogs and get out of suburu, mitsubishi, and mazda's league. since their flagships are on the same level as the accord (legacy, galant, and mazda6). even the kia and hyundai has bigger flagships (Amanti and XG350).

t0ast

You have to be careful comparing the flagships as well. Nissan markets the maxima as a
"sporty" flagship to a younger crowd, while Toyota markets the Avalon as a "luxury" flagship to an older crowd. I'm not saying that either one is not sporty or luxurious, but Nissan and Toyota are shooting for different segments, and Honda would have to decide who they're trying to sell to and which flagship they wanna gun for.

With that said, I think Honda as a company is doing great in terms of marketing many different cars ranging from the sport compact (Si) to sports cars (S2000) to the family sedan (Accord) to luxury cars (Acura). If I were Honda, I'd worry more about Toyota taking a chunk of the sport compact market with Scion before worrying about having a flagship.

MSZ

Very well said.

Honda America has way too many things to worry about, I don't think at this stage a luxury flagship is possible.

GIBSON6594

How about a Sport/Luxury Flagship to kick the shit out of the Maxima and the Avelon