AcuraGT-3

Not sure why the big surprise. Acura simply cannot sell expensive cars. The last Rl sold below sales targets, so does this one and the NSX cannot be given away.

As people stated, image counts and when people spend or think 50k, they don't think Acura. They probably don't even have people visiting the showrooms as they don't know a 50k Acura exists. Most people in this class don't read or give 2 figs about what some magazine says.

The car is bland and looks like an old Accord. That is a sin people will not get with. This car is BRAND NEW, sales will decrease like mad as the model cycle gets older.

Look at the 300C, interior is average, but damnit, Chrysler gave it an expensive looking exterior, RWD and a V-8 option.

The RL is anti-luxury, giving you NO CHOICE. Look at BMW and Benz, you can configure the cars any way your heart desires.

iNteGraz92

anti-luxury? i guess that means not having the car fully loaded from the start and making you add options which can add a few thousand to the price? ok.

mrdeeno

The problem with $45k-50k cars is that when shopping for a $45-50k car, there are so many choices.

Someone shopping for a $15k car only has so many choices...but if someone were spending $50k, he has all the choices from $50k down to the cheapest chevy aveo.

This is MY theory why Acura doesn't do so well compared to competitors.

What do these brands have that make them successful? The top 2 are what contributes to the sales mostly.

BMW: Image
Performance
Luxury
Value

MB: Image
Luxury
Performance
Value

Lexus: Luxury
Image
Reliability
Value

Infiniti: Performance
Value
Luxury
Image

Acura: Value
Reliability
Performance
Luxury

See the difference? All the luxury brands focus on AT LEAST ONE luxury trait (Image, Luxury, or Performance) and back that up with the other traits (Reliability and Value).

Acura on the other hand focus on Value and Reliability, and back that up with performance and Luxury. What AcuraGT-3 said was right, Acura does seem like the "anti-luxury" type. If Acura wants to be a strong competitor, it has to shuffle it's traits around so when someone thinks of Acura, they think of "Luxury" or "Image" or "Performance" BEFORE they think of "Value" and "Reliabiliity". Value and Reliability should be traits of the Honda Civic and Accord, not a so called "Luxury Sport Sedan."

youngTL

I agree, but they ARE doing well in sales, just not in the RL and NSX (relatively low volume vehicles). If people didn't think of value and reliability, they wouldnt be buying so many TSX's and TL's, RSX's and in Canada the EL's (they're EVERYWHERE!)

mrdeeno

They are doign well in sales, but I think it fits into my theory...the TL and TSX are in the "near-luxury" segment which is more tolerant of the "value" trait because they cost only a litlte more than non-luxury cars ($35-45k). Because of that, a lot of people "stretch" to get out of the non-luxury brands and therefore VALUE is more important. eg someone who is considering an accord exv6 (or hybrid), but can't overlook the fact that the TL offers more eqiupment and more image for only a little $$ more. That's where value comes into play in this category.

These are the traits I'd consider

TL: Value
Performance
Reliability

It also has the performance relative to the competition. It competes VERY well with the others in this class (upper end models of 3-series and a4's, es330 and g35).

TSX: Value
Performance
Reliability

Also the same considering its class (lower-end models of 3-series and A4's) .

But once you move up to the the $45-60k, you are already in the LUXURY class where the rules change and VALUE isn't as important as perf, image, or luxury. I would be inclined to think that anyone that COULD spend $45k on a car can also spend $50k on a car without "stretching" it, so they can spend $45k on an RL or spend about $50k on a M35 comparably equipped, but with better performance and image without sacrificing too much value. As for someone who would spend $60k on a car, he would be looking for the strongest competitor in luxury, performance, or image that he can afford, without placing as much importance on value.

And once you move into the $60k+ range, VALUE is the last trait considered...behind Luxury, Performance, or Image.


Relative to the TSX and TL, Acura was on a roll and I expected the RL to be as competitive in its class as the TL and TSX were in theirs. But instead, the RL is a competent but not strong competitor to the M, GS, 5, or E.

i.e. It's got the goods, but the others have better goods more important to this segment.

mrdeeno

I hit post by accident...

to sum up my theory:

the formula that works in one class isn't likely to work in another class of cars. So change the formula depending on the class segment.

Acura needs to keep in mind the potential buyer's attitude in each class, and offer cars with strengths that are most important in each respective class (near-lux, mid-lux, prem. lux, SUVs, Sedans, Coupes, Sports cars, etc.).

youngTL

Then they've got themselves in a quandary. People who think Acura generally think "smart, informed, economical, great value" , it has that kind of image. Which is why the RL isn't selling as hot as the M or the GS. You're right, those competitors simply offer more for just a bit more money, and when you're shopping in that class, as you said, value is a lower priority. But people tend to paint smaller brands like Acura with the same brush. It's almost a contradiction to buy an Acura that doesn't offer you great value. And this is why the RL's sales aren't so hot.

For me, it will be a stretch to get the TL next year. A big stretch. But for me I'm willing to do it because I keep my cars for a long time, and it has everything I want. Lexus can't match the performance (and the IS300 is too small and ricey so it's out) and don't offer manuals on any of their other cars; MB is too unreliable and valueless with no performance down in that price range, it seems like you're paying for nothing; BMW is too expensive for what you get...I mean come on, how can they even offer a 3 series with cloth seats and hubcaps? I could go on about what I don't like about the rest, but in the end the only two contenders in my price range and mind are Acura and Infiniti, and I don't think Infiniti has the luxury part down yet. It's like what you gain in performance over Acura, you lose in luxury. That's how people like me make our decisions I think. Some are swayed the other way too.

mrdeeno

I actually think that Acura can break themselves out of that "quandry" if they wanted. They only have 2 cars that have that problem...the RL and NSX. All the other cars fit perfectly into their segments and that's why their selling so well.

Lexus was in the same situation years ago when they started, focusing on VALUE and RELIABILITY with LUXURY backing it up. Eventually made a load of money with their core offerings (ES, RX), and expanded upwards with cars that don't prioritize value and reliability as much as LUXURY (GS, SC, LS). That improved their image. Sort of like...compounding investments.

that's where infiniti is currently going, and that's where I thought Acura was headed. They make a load of money off the MDX, TSX, RSX, and the last and current gen. of TL. I thought they would finally get into the big leagues with the RL...a car where value and reliability takes a backseat to LUXURY or PERFORMANCE. Instead it's the same formula focusing on VALUE.

They need to keep in mind the potential customers their chasing in each class. What you did to do well in high school probably wouldn't work in college. what you did to make you successful in college probably wouldn't work in the real world. And what you did to be successful in the real world probably wouldn't work in heaven (or hell). You gotta adapt to the "class" you're in.

TSX69

Lately I have been really intrigued by the current state of the RL & stumbled upon this thread. For the person looking for #s, here are Jan06:

5 = 4,681
E = 2,465
GS = 1,978
M = 1,892
STS =
A6 = 1,617
RL = 773

As an update: RL will come w/ less features in order to reduce the price. No word on the much discussed V8 or RWD.

Now here is an idea I got from Club Lexus: As the above poster stated, Acura seems to focus on value which does not usually fit the luxury image. Perhaps, Honda should make another brand -- a true luxury brand? Think Scion but on the opposite end of the spectrum.

They could focus on performance w/ Acuras & w/ the new brand, they could pursue things such as soft quiet rides w/ elaborate features like seat massagers. I realize that this could not happen anytime soon but it might be easier than strengthening Acura's image as they have recently stated.

dom

So you think it would be easier for Acura to create an entirely new luxury brand rather than strengthen Acura's image?

Infiniti turned things around with great and distintive product. Thats all Acura has to do.

F23A4

^^^^ What he said!! Infiniti is a perfect example.

Before the 2003 model year (read G35), the I-series was Infiniti's only redeemable model (even though it was a blatantly dressed up Maxima). As someone who currently owns 3 Nissans, Infiniti wasnt even on my personal radar until the G35 debuted.

TSX69

I think the case w/ Infiniti was a little different: they got a great product & turned its sluggish sales around. Acura sales are fine {except the RL}, where they need to turn things around is their image.

The idea @ Club Lexus was not to increase sales but to have Acura taken more seriously as a luxury brand - which in theory could help RL sales. After 20 years, it might be hard for Acura to be considered luxury @ the same level as Lexus bc they would have to do a lot of stuff that I am sure has been discussed a lot already: Better sales centers/service, Drop the <30k cars etc etc .... so the idea of starting another brand was tossed around.

This was all just an interesting thought to me altho I am sure it is not that feasible in the immediate future.

dom

I think its a terrible idea and really not worth discussing further because it has 0 chance of happening.

No offense.

GreenMonster

Why do we need 2 RL threads ?? One in cartalk and one in Automotive news ??



TSX69, we have an automotive news forum... and it has a 35 page RL thread going on now...

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...92#post4700092

Oh, wait, you already knew that, 'cause you posted 8 times in that one