2013 Civic Si
#41
1) Your response was in reference to an S2000 comment. What you said is just retarded.
2) If the 2013 Si did all of those things, would you buy one?
The thing that bothers me the most about the people who bash Honda in Car Talk for "losing their way" is that they wouldn't buy a Honda if they did everything they were asking. In addition, if Honda did what they were asking, they would lose money. Their business is selling cars, not making car enthusiasts get hard-ons.
If someone wants a new Si with all of those things (except high revs), they will buy one and get coilovers, racing seats, an exhaust, a stereo/A/C delete and whatever else 99% of people don't want in a car.
2) If the 2013 Si did all of those things, would you buy one?
The thing that bothers me the most about the people who bash Honda in Car Talk for "losing their way" is that they wouldn't buy a Honda if they did everything they were asking. In addition, if Honda did what they were asking, they would lose money. Their business is selling cars, not making car enthusiasts get hard-ons.
If someone wants a new Si with all of those things (except high revs), they will buy one and get coilovers, racing seats, an exhaust, a stereo/A/C delete and whatever else 99% of people don't want in a car.
#43
Except the Current Si is A lot softer all around than previous years.
Or you may say a lot less hardcore than previous gens.
The 2006-2011 Civic Si IMO was already near the borderline of not being an Si.
2012+ just became a comfortable DD. It is still a nice car and somewhat fun to drive but i dont think it deserves the Si badge.
Or you may say a lot less hardcore than previous gens.
The 2006-2011 Civic Si IMO was already near the borderline of not being an Si.
2012+ just became a comfortable DD. It is still a nice car and somewhat fun to drive but i dont think it deserves the Si badge.
As of '06 You ended up with RSX Type S performance for less money and with the sedan introduced in '07, some practicality.
The Si has always been a daily driver, not sure where you're getting the idea its been some sort of track monster.
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oo7spy (06-15-2013)
#44
But yeah, it felt slow. OP asked the feeling, not the numbers.
Didn't give me the Honda feeling much for some reason when I drove it multiple times.
#45
1) Your response was in reference to an S2000 comment. What you said is just retarded.
2) If the 2013 Si did all of those things, would you buy one?
The thing that bothers me the most about the people who bash Honda in Car Talk for "losing their way" is that they wouldn't buy a Honda if they did everything they were asking. In addition, if Honda did what they were asking, they would lose money. Their business is selling cars, not making car enthusiasts get hard-ons.
If someone wants a new Si with all of those things (except high revs), they will buy one and get coilovers, racing seats, an exhaust, a stereo/A/C delete and whatever else 99% of people don't want in a car.
2) If the 2013 Si did all of those things, would you buy one?
The thing that bothers me the most about the people who bash Honda in Car Talk for "losing their way" is that they wouldn't buy a Honda if they did everything they were asking. In addition, if Honda did what they were asking, they would lose money. Their business is selling cars, not making car enthusiasts get hard-ons.
If someone wants a new Si with all of those things (except high revs), they will buy one and get coilovers, racing seats, an exhaust, a stereo/A/C delete and whatever else 99% of people don't want in a car.
2) I never bought an Si because it does not have enough power and it is FWD. If 2013 Si has all those things i said, + 40more HP + RWD. I will go trade in my 335 Tomorrow.
I do not bash Honda/Acura because it is Honda/Acura. Some of their products are just waiting to be bashed, which are direct result of their Stubbornness.
I have said many good things about the current gen Accord and i personally have 2 Honda at home.
As an enthusiast, Honda/Acura is just plain boring. As a family buyer, rest of the competition is catching up and Honda/Acura can only rely their past reputation for so long if they keep coming out with overpriced cars like RLX and ILX.
When a car is good, then it is good. When the car is not good, then it is not good. I am not a fanboy to any brand.
#46
30/40-100mph is more accurate.
#47
Haha, I was just referencing that it isn't the lethargic POS some are touting it up to be. I never said it was the best car in the segment, but it certainly is competitive.
#48
And we are arguing about the new Si because?
You guys are asking for the Si to be a Type-R, which Honda will never bring to the US given previous behavior. If you are wanting a FWD sporty car and the Civic doesn't do it for you, there are a bunch of choices. My choice would be a 2011 Si, but that's just me.
You guys are asking for the Si to be a Type-R, which Honda will never bring to the US given previous behavior. If you are wanting a FWD sporty car and the Civic doesn't do it for you, there are a bunch of choices. My choice would be a 2011 Si, but that's just me.
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Ken1997TL (06-20-2013)
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#50
And we are arguing about the new Si because?
You guys are asking for the Si to be a Type-R, which Honda will never bring to the US given previous behavior. If you are wanting a FWD sporty car and the Civic doesn't do it for you, there are a bunch of choices. My choice would be a 2011 Si, but that's just me.
You guys are asking for the Si to be a Type-R, which Honda will never bring to the US given previous behavior. If you are wanting a FWD sporty car and the Civic doesn't do it for you, there are a bunch of choices. My choice would be a 2011 Si, but that's just me.
#51
#52
I love people who use extremes to try and support their viewpoint.
One reason I'm ok with the Civic Si being what it is, is that is costs much less than the competition. Which granted outperform the Si, but for more money. At least up here in Canada.
But is Honda not capable of offering more than 200 HP/No torque on their Sporty cars? They've been there for years. The needle from the GS-R to Prelude to the last few Si's hasn't moved much. But maybe what we should be asking for is a Type-R and not for the Si to compete directly with GTI's, ST and MazdaSpeeds.
Last edited by dom; 06-26-2013 at 03:08 PM.
#53
Please quote that post.
I love people who use extremes to try and support their viewpoint.
One reason I'm ok with the Civic Si being what it is, is that is costs much less than the competition. Which granted outperform the Si, but for more money. At least up here in Canada.
But is Honda not capable of offering more than 200 HP/No torque on their Sporty cars? They've been there for years. The needle from the GS-R to Prelude to the last few Si's hasn't moved much. But maybe what we should be asking for is a Type-R and not for the Si to compete directly with GTI's, ST and MazdaSpeeds.
I love people who use extremes to try and support their viewpoint.
One reason I'm ok with the Civic Si being what it is, is that is costs much less than the competition. Which granted outperform the Si, but for more money. At least up here in Canada.
But is Honda not capable of offering more than 200 HP/No torque on their Sporty cars? They've been there for years. The needle from the GS-R to Prelude to the last few Si's hasn't moved much. But maybe what we should be asking for is a Type-R and not for the Si to compete directly with GTI's, ST and MazdaSpeeds.
I also am ok with the Si as it is, it has came along way with the exception of the EP3 Si which was just a disaster from the beginning...
A Type R of anything would be to expensive and way out the price range from the competition as a base price; i.e the 00-01 ITR's even though those were marked up from dealers still as a base they were a pretty penny.
I think your focused on the cross-over of vtec and sound of the B series. I also do like the sound but I'd prefer to be quiet and go then loud and slow? lol
K series technology will always win over the B series its that simple.
#55
How much would a Type R Civic be, if it was to released here in the States?
MS3/GTI/ST are priced from $24k-30k.
I wouldn't mind a "real" nice Civic that's priced within that range.
No, not one of those POS Mugen Civic Si that Honda released. Geez.
MS3/GTI/ST are priced from $24k-30k.
I wouldn't mind a "real" nice Civic that's priced within that range.
No, not one of those POS Mugen Civic Si that Honda released. Geez.
#57
#58
It is expensive and overpriced but then that is what a BMW, Benz and Audi is. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. There are plenty of other people lining up for it.
BMW will not be a BMW if it is cheap, then again If BMW can sell 50k 3 series like hot cakes then apparently they are not expensive.
One day if Honda/Acura have the same customer base, then they can charge $80k for their RLX and people will still buy it regardless how boring looking it is.
BMW will not be a BMW if it is cheap, then again If BMW can sell 50k 3 series like hot cakes then apparently they are not expensive.
One day if Honda/Acura have the same customer base, then they can charge $80k for their RLX and people will still buy it regardless how boring looking it is.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 06-26-2013 at 04:40 PM.
#60
Last edited by esco115; 06-26-2013 at 07:28 PM.
#63
The people who say fwd cant be sporty or fwd cant handle over 200hp have never driven a properly setup fwd car.
The new civics will never be anything like the ITR. They cut too many corners now. They used to make cars with double wishbone setups on all 4 corners(like any proper sport/race car has). Now they typically use a macpherson front setup with a torsion beam or multilink rear setup to save space for passengers and because it is cheaper. They are all about compromise now. Atleast they switched from the torsion beam to the multilink in the rear tho and it does have the nice helical lsd.
Enthusiasts were begging honda/acura to bring the itr to the us. When they finally did bring it here barely anyone ended up buying them and it was a huge flop. They got more popular after they stopped selling them as used models. These type of things make them reluctant to do it again.
I almost bought a used 01 yellow itr and still regret it kind of.
The new civics will never be anything like the ITR. They cut too many corners now. They used to make cars with double wishbone setups on all 4 corners(like any proper sport/race car has). Now they typically use a macpherson front setup with a torsion beam or multilink rear setup to save space for passengers and because it is cheaper. They are all about compromise now. Atleast they switched from the torsion beam to the multilink in the rear tho and it does have the nice helical lsd.
Enthusiasts were begging honda/acura to bring the itr to the us. When they finally did bring it here barely anyone ended up buying them and it was a huge flop. They got more popular after they stopped selling them as used models. These type of things make them reluctant to do it again.
I almost bought a used 01 yellow itr and still regret it kind of.
Last edited by brian6speed; 06-26-2013 at 10:06 PM.
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oo7spy (06-27-2013)
#65
Exactly, no one is asking for 300HP at 20K. Don't make it seem like they are.
The issue I have isn't the K per se, its the 2.4 in the Si.
I think your focused on the cross-over of vtec and sound of the B series. I also do like the sound but I'd prefer to be quiet and go then loud and slow? lol
K series technology will always win over the B series its that simple.
K series technology will always win over the B series its that simple.
#66
Both "expensive" and "Overpriced" are very subjective.
Just because you think it is not worth the money does not mean everyone thinks it is not worth the $.
I think a $2000 LV purse is overpriced and not worth the $. Apparently my GF thinks otherwise.
Just because you think it is not worth the money does not mean everyone thinks it is not worth the $.
I think a $2000 LV purse is overpriced and not worth the $. Apparently my GF thinks otherwise.
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oo7spy (06-27-2013)
#67
The price of Mugen Si really has nothing to do with CTR.
How much is the CTR in Japan compare to Mugen Si and regular civic In Japan? Anyone knows?
#68
The issue i have is not with the 2.4 engine itself, but they basically move the TSX engine over and called it a Si. That is just not very "Si" to me.
They should have at least messed around with it a bit and make it rev to 8k.
#69
As long as we both realize this truth, then I think we can agree to disagree.
#70
I test drove the new Civic Si last year and felt like it was really hit or miss in a lot of areas. The interior is very nice and I love the separate trip computer screen in the dash. The gauges are fantastic as well. The problem I had with it is that it is S-L-O-W! Maybe I've been spoiled by 300+ hp cars for the past 5 years but I really couldn't believe how little power the Si seems to have. The VTEC changeover amounted to little more than the engine just getting a little louder but it didn't give any perceptible kick in the pants or anything. I've had two 4th gen Preludes and I remember them having a noticeable kick when VTEC engaged and I really missed that in the Civic. Not to mention the use of hard and cheap looking plastics and seat materials throughout the cabin.
Honda has really lost its way in recent years IMO...
Honda has really lost its way in recent years IMO...
#71
#74
I also said if they built it in Ohio (or anywhere in the US) it could be done. Mugen is expensive, rare and frankly a 'premium' brand that is all about exclusivity and mark-up.
#75
There is already a thread for this discussion, so I will just make two statements about the RLX here. The RLX was not designed to be a mass-seller, and it does not have to sell at all for Acura to do well.
#76
I can respect the position that Honda took. It's an in-between for people who don't want a sport compact with no balls at all and yet don't want something turbocharged.
It's just not for me. And anyone wishes for another Type-R in North America is chasing a pipe dream. It will never happen unless Honda has a drastic change in leadership.
It's just not for me. And anyone wishes for another Type-R in North America is chasing a pipe dream. It will never happen unless Honda has a drastic change in leadership.
#77
It also needs an AT option. Or at least a dual clutch. Its not so much a sports car that an AT will ruin the experience.
#79
Oh and please tell what issue is it that your having with the K24? lol omg I can't believe I am even entertaining this...
If HONDA not MUGEN made a Type R, I don't see them having any issue of selling it for $28,000.
I also said if they built it in Ohio (or anywhere in the US) it could be done. Mugen is expensive, rare and frankly a 'premium' brand that is all about exclusivity and mark-up.
I also said if they built it in Ohio (or anywhere in the US) it could be done. Mugen is expensive, rare and frankly a 'premium' brand that is all about exclusivity and mark-up.
Regardless any add on from factory is going to cost a pretty penny on any car whether it has 90hp or 1000hp that was my point.
I really doubt they will be building anything Type R here in the states that's just honda honestly. Making a car lighter faster and all around efficient to a car enthusiast is just going to cost more that's the reality of the matter.
#80
I think the issue here is not the Si per se, but Honda's overall lack of ability or desire to come to the table with a power train that is meaningful in this day and age. The magic of the Si's, 'Lude's, Tegs, Legends etc we all founded around a power train that was at the leading edge of the given segment at the time. Looking back at the cars that brought us all here honda offered 2 things, a competent chassis packaged with an inspiring power train which today one part of that formula is missing. Looking to what the Germans and Ford have brought to the table in their 4 cylinders, DI turbos cranking out more hp/tq per litre then anyone would have imagined, the fact is these technologies are the vtech back in '93 and honda missed the boat when they made the decisions to focus on their hybrid power trains that aren't selling. Honda made a decision on ideals a number of years ago and stopped developing new tech for internal combustions engines, and this Si is the result of those compromises. I have no doubt that if you dropped the engine from the a4 or 328i into the Si it would tear up the streets. I think with Honda's recent announcement of it's return to formula 1 with Mclaren we will start to see the same passion into the next development cycle.
/rant
/rant