derrick

Has anyone taken a peek at insurance as well as service costs? (Incidentals that you still need to pay but not part of the initial upfront costs).

Maybe my age / pragmatics is getting the best of me as of late. After owning my G37 for a couple of years ... I certainly do miss the fuel economy of my '02 TL-S. But cost of ownership (ie insurance, service) is pretty much dead even between the TL-S and G37. (Was I getting ripped off at Acura? I mean ... 7 years of inflation and the service bills are just about even?)

PS But the worse fuel economy is made up when I rev it past 5k rpm ... and of course, RWD fun VS FWD.

speedemon90

I believe I looked at yahoo's 5 year ownership costs, and both these cars came relatively close to each other. But when I did it I believe it was with the last gen cars. Dunno how it is for the newer cars... I should check it out

hANDYcaptd

iTrader: (5)

Interesting. I'm looking to cross shop between theses two (and Civic Si) in the next year or so. Good to see some opinions on these cars.

Carraway

I got an estimate on the Mazdaspeed 3. It didn't seem too bad, but the car's having more than two doors probably helps a lot. In short, the six month premium on a 2008 Mazdaspeed 3 was about $35 more than a 2007 TSX. Cars like the G35 and Legacy GT were in between. An RSX-S, however, was $200 more (over 60%) than a TSX.

speedemon90

I would wait for the next gen civic si. Honestly the si has fallen a little behind now.

hANDYcaptd

iTrader: (5)

It should be here by the time I start to shop around. I want to see what changes they have. And I agree, the performance numbers are a little behind these two, but for the price is lower than these two. We'll see.

Went a little off topic there... OP.

JediMindTricks

i go back and forth between the two in terms of which i'd want to own.

carmagnut

Thanks all for the comments. I sat back and digested what was said before getting into it.

As far as the test drives go I have done both and have done more than one in each car.

My 1st VW test drive wowed the shit out of ma as this car was not even in my mind before I drove it. One thing that sticks out in my head is that my brother bought a Passat and he LOVES the car itself but would never buy a VW again. I have to talk to him further to see why but I do recall him saying just a lot of little things check popping up. Lights, noises, etc.

2nd test drive was great until the gear shifter popped out of 6th and the sales rep who I was driving with did not seem suprised... "popped out of gear on ya?" was what he said. Not really what I wanted to have happen on a test drive, ya know. He said I should "manhandle" it into the gear more..."it can take it"

As far as the car itself the car drove great, has so much usable down low torque that the need to shift is barely there. I mean I got caught in 4th doing like 20mph and I thought I would have to downshift, but I chose not to...Not a chug from the engine; it just pulls hard all the time. I do like the way VW has done their options for the 2011. The interor is great; a good mix between sport and class and once I got my seating position just right it fit very nicely. Clutch and shifter are where they need to be and the back seat is very room and easy to access (4 Door version for me). Price is not bad if I option it the way I want and I would do that with a pre order. Dealers seemed nice and did not hassle me whan I came in for the test drive...Unlike...

Mazda: I love the look of the car so that takes care of that. Interior is very well appointed and designed the only thing that I personally dislike is the funky red color splash they did on the seats and dash pieces. It does not show up that well in pics but the moment you step into the car that is all I seem to see; the red BS all over the place. Not a deal breaker but I gotta look at the interior all the time so I wish I liked it more.

The car drives awesome and the only problem is that roads I was driving on were very congested i.e once the boost hits (hard) I always had to hit the brakes otherwise I would have creamed the guy in front of me. I need more open road to get a better feel of the car and how it performs when allowed to. Clutch is good (better than the stock 3 version), seats are comfy and there is a ton of usable space because of the 5 door design. Back seat is a little tight but I don't go back there so I don't care. They also make you feel like a criminal when you want to test drive the car but I understand the reasoning behind that.

Reliability: Ugh. I have no quarrels with the Mazda until you smack the turbo on it (some of the issues may be do to stupid behavior on the part of the driver) and the VW just doesn't have a great track record in general. This is the only area I fear making a bad choice. My car has been so good to me I would hate to get rid of her for a repair shop magnet.

Someone up top said basically "duh of course you want something reliable in the long term." Well, yes, you are right because I plan to OWN the car and not lease. If I was looking to lease I may not care AS MUCH if I just planned to give it back.

I am potentially not looking to mod the car as I did that to my TSX and I am not looking to do MAJOR modding. APR does make it tempting with a 700 dollar reflash to the VW that would blow my S/C TSX out of the water in terms of numbers.

All in all; both great cars for the right situation but I am still caught in the middle. Any new feedback is appreciated.

Oh BTW, my other option is the Honda Fit. Super fun to drive, LOVES to be flogged, best shifter under 20K and tons of space. Yeah it's not fast but it drives better than the numbers suggest and would be a gift to my wallet in terms of payments, gas, insurance.

Moog-Type-S

^^ Nice to see you drove both cars and found them both to be great....because they are.


....as far as lookin at a Fit......now you are comparing apples to oranges.

Moog-Type-S

I love my MkV interior, but the MkVI interior is It only got better....but I don't like the fact that VW got rid of the "Oh Sh*t!" handes on the MkVI.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Good to see some progress on your car shopping. I hate when some noobs just make a thread about getting a new car in 4 years.

Anyway, I'm glad that you like the both cars. Just do more research and get the one you like the most!

And oh yeah, f the Fit.

Carraway

I'm not sure if there's a whole lot in the way of performance mods for the Mazdaspeed. It seems pretty well tuned from the factory, and it already has so much power to the front wheels that the computer and a differential are used to keep it better controlled. Then again, I've only test driven them, so someone like JS + MS3 would know much more about what's available and what can be done.

Personally, I'd think I'd kind of like a plain old Mazda 3 5-door with the suspension upgrades of the Mazdaspeed, just without the turbo. That's mainly because I'm a little concerned with long term reliability of a turbo engine.

It sounds like you're looking for a fun, well handling car with room to carry some stuff. If you're expanding the search to the fit, you may also want to look at the Subaru Imprezza and WRX, as well.

Moog-Type-S

^^ Subaru WRX is yet another apples and oranges comparo.

95gt

Aren't they in direct competition with eachother? I sure as hell cross shopped WRX/MAZDASPEED/GTI when I got my Mazdaspeed. Thought most of the mag's put them against eachother as well.

speedemon90

most threads about buying cars never really go through with it, I'd like to see this one go through.

Also if I'm not mistaken vw should be offering you 3/36,000 free maintenance right?

From what I've heard with MkV GTI's is that its either a hit or miss in terms of reliability. Some people on the forums have had nearly no problems, or no major ones at least, and others are having quite a bit problems. Although the MkV did have the FSI motor which did cause a lot of problems I've heard.

Hopefully whatever car you get, it will be pleasant in the reliability. I hope that when I consider buying these cars in the future(which I'm sure I will) I will have some extra money that will allow me to take the risk of getting a not so reliable car, I just hope its all good though.

You could consider a wrx, like someone said, but i dont think its as good as any of these from what I've read. Yes its freaking fast! But handling and steering feel wise its not up there with these two cars, plus the interior just sucks ass. And if you want this car longterm I'm assuming you want something pleasant to look at while you get in everytime. The WRX will not do that for you.
Flip a coin, Heads is a GTI, and tails is a Speed 3

VQPower37

i would get the ms3, just because of the simple fact i think it looks better ... the vw never really appealed to me in any way

Moog-Type-S

Throw the R32 into the mix...and perhaps you have a comparo.
AWD is a big difference.

Moog-Type-S

The FSI motor did have some issues...but nothing major.
The TSI motor has been excellent.


Today Mazda recalled over 200k Mazda 3's over power steering failures.....does that mean the Mazda 3 is unreliable?

Not necessarily by any means.

FWIW reliability in cars is a crap shoot.

Buy the car you really desire.

calgary2800

I've driven the 09 and 10 Mazdaspeed3, just my feeling but the 09 speed 3 had a easier clutch to handle and felt more nimble and go cart like. It was a riot. The 2010 speed 3 had me popping the clutch sometimes and just felt bigger, more serious and less fun. Love the way the new speed3 looks but not how it drives at all.

I vote GTI for the overall balance of everything.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

^ Yes, 1st gen ms3 has much more rawness to it than 2nd gen ms3. Mazda intentionally de-raw-ed the ms3 as to get older consumers as well as youngsters. That's why Mazda tweaked its suspension to achieve more "refined" feel of handling. This doesn't mean the 2nd gen ms3 handles worse than 1st gen ms3. 2010 version actually puts down better handling numbers than 1st gen.

As for the clutch issue, I personally have never experienced clutch popping.

F23A4

...and to Mazda's defense, Mitsubishi and Subaru went in the same direction with the current interations of the Evo and WRX.

carmagnut

I just test drove the Speed3 again and I did get the same sensation from the clutch (somewhat of a popping). It was not that bad and I would definitely get adjusted to it but it is/was something I noticed on 2 drives of the car. Other than other little nuances it really is a solid car overall,. I have read even though the suspension has been tweaked to be more refined it ultimately made the car a better ride overall without lossing any of its' sportiness. The car does ride great.

carmagnut

Not at all. I do not see a recall as signs of poor reliability. If they were numerous and could amount to serious issues that is another story. All in all I do agree with other comments that these two cars could be a wash long term on the reliability front. Being in the warranty period is one thing; to be potentially still making payments after that period is up and to have many issues is a nightmare. I know... Captain Obvious again.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Nice nice.

I love your avatar btw.

When are you planning to purchase your next car? Just curious. Maybe I missed it somewhere in the 1st page?

Moog-Type-S

^^ Well, you are looking at turbo charged vehicles......so long term will be "an issue".

It all depends on your definition of long term. How long / how many miles do you want to own the vehicle?


VW will give you free maint. for 3 years 36k mi. After that you are on your own.

VW will cost more to maintain (price you pay for German vehicle)....but I'd venture to guess that it would be a wash when you factor in the free 3 year maint. when comparing to the cost of ownership with the Mazda.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

^

Also, if you treat your car like you treat your gf, it will be fine. Just do the things that you are supposed to do, and don't do the things that you are not supposed to do. Do the regular maintenance crap and change your oil with some good synthetic crap. I can go on and on, but judging by your posts, you seem like you know what you are doing.

But I have to remind you that regardless of the brands, any 4 banger turbocharged engines (subaru, mitsubishi, vw, mazda, and mini) can really get f ed up, if you don't treat it well. They are very responsive to the mods, which is a super good thing. However, they are also very responsive to abusive shits that some idiotic youngsters always like to do.

So, yeah, test drive both cars a bit more and get the one that gives you more smile.

"Smile" comes with Mazdaspeed3 though. That's not an option, unfortunately. But I just love how it looks. It's just one of those love it or hate it looking car.

carmagnut

I've seen this picture alot and it can be deceiving (no fault of yours); it does not show the seat BACKS which get a major dose of the quirky color splash. I truly do like the layout of the cockpit and it form/function I just wish Mazda would have allowed alternate color options for the seats and trim. IMO this interior pattern (the red) color just looks off with... let's say the Celestial Blue exterior. And I do not mean the subtle stitching here and there.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Oh the red dots! I know.. it's fking weird. I have zero idea what those really stand for. Though, it really doesn't bother me much now. haha

carmagnut

^^^
THE RED DOTS!! That's all I see when I get in the car. LOL

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

^ I know! That's what I thought when I first got in at the dealership too. lol I asked the salesman.. is there any other interior trim option to get rid of these red dots? He's like .... uh.... no.. speed3 comes with only one trim. Do you not like it? I was like.. who would like these red dots on the seats and door trims?? lol looks like AIDS shits..

I forgot about this crap right after I started test driving though. These days, I don't even notice it at all. lol

Moog-Type-S

Interlagos Plaid seats > red dot seats :wink:

speedemon90

I absolutely love the GTI's seats. I havent driven the MK6 yet, but I've sat in it. Absolutely amazing. The MkV was nothing but extraordinary also! I drove that one too. Another favorite the steering wheel

Car and driver picked it as one of the top ten steering wheels.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

My friend actually has the leather seats in his GTI, and it's amazingly great. I personally don't like those plaid patterns at all though! Different tastes I assume!

Moog-Type-S

It's a retro throw-back homage to the OG GTI.

It is an aquired taste.....I dig the heritage of it.

SuperTrooper169

iTrader: (2)

That's f'ing hawt!

onebadna1nsx

Seats are AWESOME!!

carmagnut

I thought the VW seats were ugly until I got to appreciate them in person; whole nother' ballgame. In either case it's not a deal breaker but something worth noting. I also like that the seats are not power; keeps the weight down. Sure, I have power/memory drivers seat in the TSX but that's not a hard thing to forget about and it's also one of the many extras that make the TSW such a heavy car (in it's class).

95gt

Plaid? Understand the heritage part but

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I would take the subaru wrx. Base model for 25-26k. 0-60 under 5 seconds.

carmagnut

I ended up with none of the above. At the last minute I read a long term review on the 2010 Mazda3 hatchback (non Grand Touring) and decided to take a second look. I have test driven them before (6 speed) but decided to go with the automatic. I picked up a 2011 for a few thousand over the Fit I was going to buy and could not be happier. It's peppy, handles great and has all of the things I wanted and nothing I don't need. I got the Bose/moonroof/6CD package and have been enjoying the car since last weekend. I personally think it's a lot of car for the money and I like the look of the front grill which happens to turn many others off. Thanks for all of the help people and I figured I should finish up the thread with my final decision as many of these threads start but are never finished with a buying decision. Good Luck to all.