1000hp Saleen S7TT Veyron-killer?
sex on wheels right there....
02-22-2006, 04:42 PM
#43
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Edr0e
For the 2005 S7 Twin Turbo, the redesigned front and rear diffusers, along with the new rear spoiler, result in a 40 percent reduction in aero drag and a 60 percent increase in down force. Those of you who know anything about aero forces recognize the significance of that last statement. Typically, you would have to trade down force to reduce aero drag. Interesting quote... this might allow the car to reach 220+mph.
I am talking about top speed here, not acceleration... The current s7R tops out at 220mph. How can the street trim 2005 saleen which is barely capable of reaching 205mph (aerodynamically) beat the veyron @ 200mph +?
248.5 mph > * any V8 saleen or the non aerodynamic hennessy viper.
To go 220 mph in a car that was designed to go nowhere near that fast ie: SRT-10 that would be near suicide. It would also be pretty outrageus to even consider the SRT-10 can be made faster than a veyron... thats like comparing a 10 second honda to the srt-10.
I am talking about top speed here, not acceleration... The current s7R tops out at 220mph. How can the street trim 2005 saleen which is barely capable of reaching 205mph (aerodynamically) beat the veyron @ 200mph +?
248.5 mph > * any V8 saleen or the non aerodynamic hennessy viper.
To go 220 mph in a car that was designed to go nowhere near that fast ie: SRT-10 that would be near suicide. It would also be pretty outrageus to even consider the SRT-10 can be made faster than a veyron... thats like comparing a 10 second honda to the srt-10.
woot.I'm happy to say that the 1000hp S7 will BLOW AWAY the Veyron, up to 220 mph.
02-22-2006, 04:44 PM
#44
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by stangg172004
what kind of motor does this thing have? is it a ford or did they develop their own for this car...
02-22-2006, 04:57 PM
#46
...
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Posts: 2,916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by srika
Guess we're talking about 2 different things then - you're talking top speed, I'm talking acceleration. When you said the Veyron would "walk on that S7" I figured you meant in a race. Either from a dig or from a roll - but not from 220 mph. Ok - so past 220 mph or whatever the to speed of the S7 is, the Veyron wins. woot.
I'm happy to say that the 1000hp S7 will BLOW AWAY the Veyron, up to 220 mph.
woot.I'm happy to say that the 1000hp S7 will BLOW AWAY the Veyron, up to 220 mph.
For christ sakes it has 4 turbochargers, 7 radiators, and a w16 motor.On a race course, any supercar would beat the veyron with ease including s7. We are talking about street trim not full race.
02-22-2006, 06:10 PM
#48
Senior Moderator
Top end i dont think many will challenge teh veryon. the veryon is govenor limited to 253 and thats due to tires. Mich specially made tires for that beast. tire technology will have to catchup a little.
Id take the bugatti over teh s7. the bugatti looks nicer pluss the interior is much nicer
Id take the bugatti over teh s7. the bugatti looks nicer pluss the interior is much nicer
Plus Veyron is more of a GT car.
02-22-2006, 06:21 PM
#50
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
ok actually forget it - I'd take an Enzo or McLaren F1 over either of these cars. 
02-22-2006, 08:34 PM
#52
<< --- 
in the hizouse
enzo is ugly IMO and the mclaren is boring looking..(relatively speaking of course )
this s7 is hot i'd kill to own that car. i LOVE the veyron though..it has class and power..the S7 is lacking in the class department. It just looks unrefined to me.
in the hizouseenzo is ugly IMO and the mclaren is boring looking..(relatively speaking of course
)this s7 is hot i'd kill to own that car. i LOVE the veyron though..it has class and power..the S7 is lacking in the class department. It just looks unrefined to me.
02-22-2006, 09:01 PM
#53
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
^^ thanks for the disclaimer..
02-23-2006, 10:27 AM
#54
...
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Posts: 2,916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey theres nothing wrong with dreaming
I think i'd rather have one of these over the FXX, S7R, Veyron.
It may not be the fastest car the murcielago GTR, but damn that dry carbon is sexy.
I think i'd rather have one of these over the FXX, S7R, Veyron.
It may not be the fastest car the murcielago GTR, but damn that dry carbon is sexy.
02-23-2006, 10:34 AM
#56
Moderator Alumnus
Originally Posted by bgsm1th
what do you think the Top speed is that those things are capable of assuming it could stay connected to the ground?
Do you think their potential could ever practically be reached?
Do you think their potential could ever practically be reached?
Thats a good question, because they really dont have a transmission. I don't think I'm capable of answering that without doing some serious math, and then I don't think I know enough about aerodynamics to fully answer it.
02-23-2006, 10:51 AM
#57
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by srika
ok actually forget it - I'd take an Enzo or McLaren F1 over either of these cars.
02-23-2006, 08:45 PM
#59
Big Block go VROOOM!
Originally Posted by bgsm1th
what do you think the Top speed is that those things are capable of assuming it could stay connected to the ground?
Do you think their potential could ever practically be reached?
Do you think their potential could ever practically be reached?
That said, this question was asked once to a top fuel crew chief on an NHRA broadcast. IIRC, he said something to the effect of the hitting the aerodynamic wall not too much faster then they are now. I think he said if they went to a half mile track and were allowed any rear end gear ratio, his guess was that the top fuel cars would top out around 30-40 MPH faster than they currently are (360-370).
02-23-2006, 11:33 PM
#60
Drifting
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sunshine State
Posts: 2,054
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Edr0e
I am talking about top speed here, not acceleration... The current s7R tops out at 220mph. How can the street trim 2005 saleen which is barely capable of reaching 205mph (aerodynamically) beat the veyron @ 200mph +?
02-24-2006, 12:52 AM
#61
...
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Posts: 2,916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thats still 30 mph slower. Imagine the worlds fastest man running away from you as your car sits still. He'd be getting car lengths ahead of you in no time. 
I wonder what happens when you start modding the veyron
I wonder what happens when you start modding the veyron
02-24-2006, 01:02 AM
#62
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Billiam
There really is no answer because you sort of get into a vicious circle. The engines literally last for the duration of a run and that's pretty much it. In order to gain more speed, the car would ahve to run longer. In order for the car to run longer, you have to start detuning the engine.
That said, this question was asked once to a top fuel crew chief on an NHRA broadcast. IIRC, he said something to the effect of the hitting the aerodynamic wall not too much faster then they are now. I think he said if they went to a half mile track and were allowed any rear end gear ratio, his guess was that the top fuel cars would top out around 30-40 MPH faster than they currently are (360-370).
That said, this question was asked once to a top fuel crew chief on an NHRA broadcast. IIRC, he said something to the effect of the hitting the aerodynamic wall not too much faster then they are now. I think he said if they went to a half mile track and were allowed any rear end gear ratio, his guess was that the top fuel cars would top out around 30-40 MPH faster than they currently are (360-370).
Right now the NHRA restricts top fuelers to a displacement of 500 cubic inches, or about 8.2L
The reason why they can crank out so much power is because they are only designed to last about 5 seconds. And this means extreme fuel delivery, supercharging, etc.
They use about 4 -5 gallons per 1/4 mile, (excluding burn-out, and idling) so you can see that the mileage is not great. It comes to about 0.05 miles per gallon...
A Veyron's engine is not even powerful enough to begin to turn the supercharger on a top fueler.
One of the most remarkable things about top fuelers is that their engines is converted to a diesel about half-way down the track. Why? Because the insanely high pressure and temperature inside the cylinder actually melts the spark plugs and render them useless. But this is not to worry because at this point so much compression is being made by the pistons that the air-fuel mixture is ignited without the need for a spark.
Oh and another thing: these engine blocks have no coolant passages, which gives them considerable strength.
The reason why they can crank out so much power is because they are only designed to last about 5 seconds. And this means extreme fuel delivery, supercharging, etc.
They use about 4 -5 gallons per 1/4 mile, (excluding burn-out, and idling) so you can see that the mileage is not great. It comes to about 0.05 miles per gallon...
A Veyron's engine is not even powerful enough to begin to turn the supercharger on a top fueler.
One of the most remarkable things about top fuelers is that their engines is converted to a diesel about half-way down the track. Why? Because the insanely high pressure and temperature inside the cylinder actually melts the spark plugs and render them useless. But this is not to worry because at this point so much compression is being made by the pistons that the air-fuel mixture is ignited without the need for a spark.
Oh and another thing: these engine blocks have no coolant passages, which gives them considerable strength.
02-24-2006, 01:24 AM
#63
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Ok... someone who works for Saleen ("SAR") answers a few questions and doubts about the "top speed" of this 1000hp S7TT in the following thread. He says there will soon be an official announcement (from Saleen) that will reveal the top speed of the S7TT with the "aero kit"... mind you, the original speculation in this thread said that the rumour on this car is 260+ mph. Which somehow got all discombobulated and distorted when someone said it couldn't go much faster than 200, etc. etc...
One of the main points of this thread, from the beginning, was that there is a rumour that this new S7TT will do 260+ mph...
http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...3090&tID=68624
One of the main points of this thread, from the beginning, was that there is a rumour that this new S7TT will do 260+ mph...
http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...3090&tID=68624
02-24-2006, 01:31 AM
#64
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
some more infos in this thread:
http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...3090&tID=75057
its still speculation - dare I call it hype - for now, but hey, its nice to hear it "straight from the horse".
http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...3090&tID=75057
its still speculation - dare I call it hype - for now, but hey, its nice to hear it "straight from the horse".
02-24-2006, 01:38 AM
#65
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
oh and by the way - I have been forgetting the roots too much lately - don't forget about the 1988 Sledgehammer Corvette... which achieved 254.76 mph with pretty modest aerodynamics, by today's standards at least. Sure, I doubt it was as stable as the Veyron is at that speed - well, 1 mph less 
- but 254.76 mph is 254.76 mph
and also don't forget about KITT's Super Pursuit mode..
ok I'm done for tonight, lol..
- but 254.76 mph is 254.76 mph
General Information
Price: $400,000
Miles Per Gallon: 10/19 mpg
Curb Weight: 3671 lbs
Layout: Front-Engine/RWD
Transmission: 6-Speed Manual
Front tires: 275/40/17
Rear tires: 275/40/17
Engine
Type: Twin-Turbo V8
Displacement: 5733 cc
Horsepower: 880 bhp @ 6250 rpm
Torque: 772 lb-ft @ --- rpm
Redline: ---- rpm
Performance
0-60 mph: 3.9 sec
0-100 mph: 9.4 sec
Quarter Mile: 10.6 sec @ 127 mph
Skidpad: .98g
Top Speed: 254.76 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 122 ft
Slalom Speed: 65.6 mph
Price: $400,000
Miles Per Gallon: 10/19 mpg
Curb Weight: 3671 lbs
Layout: Front-Engine/RWD
Transmission: 6-Speed Manual
Front tires: 275/40/17
Rear tires: 275/40/17
Engine
Type: Twin-Turbo V8
Displacement: 5733 cc
Horsepower: 880 bhp @ 6250 rpm
Torque: 772 lb-ft @ --- rpm
Redline: ---- rpm
Performance
0-60 mph: 3.9 sec
0-100 mph: 9.4 sec
Quarter Mile: 10.6 sec @ 127 mph
Skidpad: .98g
Top Speed: 254.76 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 122 ft
Slalom Speed: 65.6 mph
ok I'm done for tonight, lol..
02-24-2006, 01:52 AM
#66
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Ok... one more example... consider this 300ZX - aside from the parachute and aerobody, it doesn't look too crazy, eh?:
This car hit 260 mph at the 1991 Bonneville Speed Trials, looking like this.
http://www.junauto.co.jp/democar/jb-z32/index.html?en
Now, I'm by no means an expert on aerodynamics - nor do I claim to be - but these cars don't look too out-of-the-ordinary to me, in terms of their aerodynamics.
This car hit 260 mph at the 1991 Bonneville Speed Trials, looking like this.
http://www.junauto.co.jp/democar/jb-z32/index.html?en
Now, I'm by no means an expert on aerodynamics - nor do I claim to be - but these cars don't look too out-of-the-ordinary to me, in terms of their aerodynamics.
02-24-2006, 02:39 AM
#67
...
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Posts: 2,916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok so ive been doing some research on this rumored "1000hp Saleen S7". Its extremely light and aerodynamically it is better than the veyron. Supposedly the engineers say the drag coefficient on the new s7 is .27 and the veryon .29-.30 respectively.
What I don't understand is how do you get traction / control with 1000hp + RWD + and such a lightweight car? Secondly, many people are "claiming" that the new 1000hp car has more downforce and less drag coefficient. So if downforce slows you down on the top end how does saleen go about making their car faster and at the same time have more downforce to put the power down to the wheels.
If any car were to beat the Veyron for top speed record this would be it, but then again how many fast v8's are out there? Too many to list. I heard Saleen slapped a V8 from Nascar and tricked out the motor :snore:
Keep in mind that the 8.0 Liter W16 Quad Turbo is governed. We do not have street tire technology at that wide of a tire to go faster than 253mph we have yet to see its true capabilities. 260mph+ id love to see this accomplished!!! But... it just sounds too good to be true!
BTW did you know VW claims to lose around 5 million per Veyron sold. You cannot compare these two cars.
Everyone's assuming that the Bugatti was built for pure speed just like the Saleen was. Dumb theory. It was built to be a superlative to every other car in a myriad of ways. It's a package of greatness, not a one-minded machine. Sure there are faster, more powerful, more expensive, more exclusive cars. But there will never be another that puts it all together into one automobile. The S7 is a car, but the Veyron is an engineering masterpiece. Any comparison that features the Bugatti is just retarded by nature.
What I don't understand is how do you get traction / control with 1000hp + RWD + and such a lightweight car? Secondly, many people are "claiming" that the new 1000hp car has more downforce and less drag coefficient. So if downforce slows you down on the top end how does saleen go about making their car faster and at the same time have more downforce to put the power down to the wheels.
If any car were to beat the Veyron for top speed record this would be it, but then again how many fast v8's are out there? Too many to list. I heard Saleen slapped a V8 from Nascar and tricked out the motor :snore:
Keep in mind that the 8.0 Liter W16 Quad Turbo is governed. We do not have street tire technology at that wide of a tire to go faster than 253mph we have yet to see its true capabilities. 260mph+ id love to see this accomplished!!! But... it just sounds too good to be true!
BTW did you know VW claims to lose around 5 million per Veyron sold. You cannot compare these two cars.
Everyone's assuming that the Bugatti was built for pure speed just like the Saleen was. Dumb theory. It was built to be a superlative to every other car in a myriad of ways. It's a package of greatness, not a one-minded machine. Sure there are faster, more powerful, more expensive, more exclusive cars. But there will never be another that puts it all together into one automobile. The S7 is a car, but the Veyron is an engineering masterpiece. Any comparison that features the Bugatti is just retarded by nature.
02-24-2006, 07:57 AM
#68
Moderator Alumnus
Originally Posted by Billiam
The engines literally last for the duration of a run and that's pretty much it.
Actually, that's not true. They last for at least few runs if nothing gives.
02-24-2006, 08:06 AM
#69
Drifting
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sunshine State
Posts: 2,054
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Edr0e
Thats still 30 mph slower. Imagine the worlds fastest man running away from you as your car sits still. He'd be getting car lengths ahead of you in no time.
I wonder what happens when you start modding the veyron
I wonder what happens when you start modding the veyron
02-24-2006, 08:09 AM
#70
Drifting
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sunshine State
Posts: 2,054
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Edr0e
BTW did you know VW claims to lose around 5 million per Veyron sold. You cannot compare these two cars.
Originally Posted by Edr0e
Everyone's assuming that the Bugatti was built for pure speed just like the Saleen was. Dumb theory. It was built to be a superlative to every other car in a myriad of ways. It's a package of greatness, not a one-minded machine. Sure there are faster, more powerful, more expensive, more exclusive cars. But there will never be another that puts it all together into one automobile. The S7 is a car, but the Veyron is an engineering masterpiece. Any comparison that features the Bugatti is just retarded by nature.
02-24-2006, 08:58 AM
#71
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by DownUnder
If Chevy only built the amount of Z06 as the Veyron they too would lose that amount because of R&D.
Yeah, a supercar weighing over 4000lbs is such an engineering masterpiece.
Yeah, a supercar weighing over 4000lbs is such an engineering masterpiece.
Veyron>*
It is without a doubt an engineering masterpiece.
02-24-2006, 10:28 AM
#72
Big Block go VROOOM!
Originally Posted by SiGGy
Actually, that's not true. They last for at least few runs if nothing gives.
Srika, someone else previously posted that top fuel info you snagged. Some of it is just wrong. Top fuel and funny car motors currently use about 12-14 gallons of fuel per run. A few years ago I asked a crew member on the Kalitta team about the 14 gallon number. Specifically, how much of that was acutally consumed in the run. He said probably about 11-12 gallons. Also, the diesel thing is flat out wrong. The plugs work and fire the charge the entire time.
02-24-2006, 10:30 AM
#73
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by DownUnder
If Chevy only built the amount of Z06 as the Veyron they too would lose that amount because of R&D.
Yeah, a supercar weighing over 4000lbs is such an engineering masterpiece.
Yeah, a supercar weighing over 4000lbs is such an engineering masterpiece.
S7:
Length: 188.0 in - Height 41.0 in - Width 78.3 in
Veyron:
Length: 174.2 in - Height 47 in - Width 77.9 in
what's the Veyron made of? lead?
seriously though, I do agree, technically, these cars are not comparable. and, that's kind of
but, that 253mph has become a magic number - and ppl are trying to "dethrone" based on that number alone.. you knew it would happen.
02-24-2006, 10:45 AM
#74
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Billiam
I was actually referring to the entire overall package and not just the main mechanical components. If you tried to run the engines significantly longer at their current output levels, I'm sure there would be issues with blower belts shredding, oil breaking down from the fuel blowby, etc...
Srika, someone else previously posted that top fuel info you snagged. Some of it is just wrong. Top fuel and funny car motors currently use about 12-14 gallons of fuel per run. A few years ago I asked a crew member on the Kalitta team about the 14 gallon number. Specifically, how much of that was acutally consumed in the run. He said probably about 11-12 gallons. Also, the diesel thing is flat out wrong. The plugs work and fire the charge the entire time.
Srika, someone else previously posted that top fuel info you snagged. Some of it is just wrong. Top fuel and funny car motors currently use about 12-14 gallons of fuel per run. A few years ago I asked a crew member on the Kalitta team about the 14 gallon number. Specifically, how much of that was acutally consumed in the run. He said probably about 11-12 gallons. Also, the diesel thing is flat out wrong. The plugs work and fire the charge the entire time.
02-24-2006, 11:49 AM
#75
...
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Posts: 2,916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Like Clpower and I have stated many times over there is no street tire technology to go faster than 253mph.
260mph + out of the factory bone stock??? We are talking about a rumor or is this fact?
Anyone remember 1999 Le Mans where one of two Mercedes CLK-LM got airborne because of Mercedes' faulty aerodynamic engineering. They were so embarrased they quit FIA GT racing altogether, even to this day. Those cars were V8: 600hp with a quarter mile in the high nine second range and topped out at 199mph.
Basically you got to be nuts to even go 253mph. The Saleen is so lightweight it must use downforce to stay in control. I could imagine the car being ripped apart like a paper kite in hurricane speed winds going 260 + mph. Imagine the gearing to reach 260mph +.
I think Saleen is trying to kill off its customers if the rumors are true.
Something about AWD, 4000lbs, and 253mph sounds safer than 2,XXXlbs, RWD
260mph + out of the factory bone stock??? We are talking about a rumor or is this fact?
Anyone remember 1999 Le Mans where one of two Mercedes CLK-LM got airborne because of Mercedes' faulty aerodynamic engineering. They were so embarrased they quit FIA GT racing altogether, even to this day. Those cars were V8: 600hp with a quarter mile in the high nine second range and topped out at 199mph.
Basically you got to be nuts to even go 253mph. The Saleen is so lightweight it must use downforce to stay in control. I could imagine the car being ripped apart like a paper kite in hurricane speed winds going 260 + mph. Imagine the gearing to reach 260mph +.
I think Saleen is trying to kill off its customers if the rumors are true.
Something about AWD, 4000lbs, and 253mph sounds safer than 2,XXXlbs, RWD
02-24-2006, 11:59 AM
#76
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
hey, you won't see me doing over 200 in any car anytime soon..
180 was enough
180 was enough
02-24-2006, 12:08 PM
#78
...
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Posts: 2,916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now the question is can the Veyron/S7 beat this in the quarter mile on street tires?
http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0212tur_titan/
http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0212tur_titan/
02-24-2006, 12:23 PM
#79
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
^^^ no, nothing can beat a Supra. 
cars : Supra
people : Chuck Norris
reprazent.
cars : Supra
people : Chuck Norris
reprazent.
02-24-2006, 12:48 PM
#80
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Age: 43
Posts: 5,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Edr0e
Like Clpower and I have stated many times over there is no street tire technology to go faster than 253mph.
260mph + out of the factory bone stock??? We are talking about a rumor or is this fact?
Anyone remember 1999 Le Mans where one of two Mercedes CLK-LM got airborne because of Mercedes' faulty aerodynamic engineering. They were so embarrased they quit FIA GT racing altogether, even to this day. Those cars were V8: 600hp with a quarter mile in the high nine second range and topped out at 199mph.
Basically you got to be nuts to even go 253mph. The Saleen is so lightweight it must use downforce to stay in control. I could imagine the car being ripped apart like a paper kite in hurricane speed winds going 260 + mph. Imagine the gearing to reach 260mph +.
I think Saleen is trying to kill off its customers if the rumors are true.
Something about AWD, 4000lbs, and 253mph sounds safer than 2,XXXlbs, RWD
260mph + out of the factory bone stock??? We are talking about a rumor or is this fact?
Anyone remember 1999 Le Mans where one of two Mercedes CLK-LM got airborne because of Mercedes' faulty aerodynamic engineering. They were so embarrased they quit FIA GT racing altogether, even to this day. Those cars were V8: 600hp with a quarter mile in the high nine second range and topped out at 199mph.
Basically you got to be nuts to even go 253mph. The Saleen is so lightweight it must use downforce to stay in control. I could imagine the car being ripped apart like a paper kite in hurricane speed winds going 260 + mph. Imagine the gearing to reach 260mph +.
I think Saleen is trying to kill off its customers if the rumors are true.
Something about AWD, 4000lbs, and 253mph sounds safer than 2,XXXlbs, RWD