F23A4

I am not certain that I would actually buy one (at least no more than I would the LS4 powered Impala SS) but, I would be happy to rent one.

bigman

These cars are both very different from each other. Build quality wont be an issue as anyone with a GTO knows that those cars are built with materials and fit and finish of a car that should cost thousands more. As far as looks, both cars have + and -. As far as performance goes, this car will run circles around a TL-S anyday. Its hard to compare a rwd to a fwd because they have very different characteristics. With that being said, the G8 will be in my future. It's hard to pass up a GM small block in a rear wheel drive sedan with the fit and finish of the GTO.

MikeCLS6

What do you guys think the price range wil be on the G8? I would think it would cost a little less then the TL

EuRTSX

That G8 is like a breakthrough for Pontiac. I absolutely love it.

bigman

Amen to that. People are constantly hating on GM. Over the last 20 years, they may not have built the prettiest or well put together cars, but their drive-trains and engine reliability is second to none. The 3800 Series of motors has been around for ages and easily is a 200,000 mi. + motor.

kmac_1906

It looks okay but it's still a Pontiac, and it looks like they took some design ques from Acura, you know how the American designers do it.

theslik1

I like it, but I'm a Holden fan. It'll be interesting to see if Pontiac can resist their predominant urge to screw up a good thing (i.e. giving it the bean-counter makeover before U.S.-spec production starts). Perhaps they learned something from their mistakes with the Monaro, which was a great car overall saddled with some execution foibles and poor marketing.

Here's hopin', anyway.

Cary

I think the new G8 is going to be a great car for Pontiac if they can keep the price at about 35K. As far as your opinion of Pontiac screwing up a good thing I agree. 5.7 seconds to 60 with a V8 is pretty sad. Sounds like they need to trim some fat from this car. I believe that if GM reduced the weight of their vehicles as a whole BAR NONE; they could get back into the game with Toyota. It's important for GM to understand that buyers want the whole package that the import companies are giving us. Our domestic vehicles are lucky to get 2/3's of the package. Like this Holden G8. Great looking, fast..but not as fast as it should be, NVH almost guaranteed to be mixed- good but mostly not, interior fit and finish probably a sea of plastic(cheap quality) when it's released.

I used to purchase domestic vehicles only (12 new vehicles), but these days I can't get myself to do it anymore. I looked at the cheapest cadillac I could find, and it was more than my TLS with options galore. I didn't give up anything by passing up the caddy. What a shame!

Before we know it GM will be selling out to Toyota, and China will be buying Chrysler, and what about Ford...? Sorry for the bummer response I'm just feeling guilty for buying imports even though they are superior products.

runnerX

bkknight369

The Audi A6 4.2 runs at >7 second 0-60 times, does that mean Audi needs to go back to the drawing board?

Performance is good, I'd rather get a more comfortable and solid ride with no rattles, than a car with less than 5 second 0-60 times...

afici0nad0

g8>tl-s

i just want to see the pricing in canada though...

Mokos23

Wow, finally a Pontiac that's cool!

Cary

Well your Audi must weigh close to 4k to be running that slow to 60. A well designed vehicle doesn't need to be so heavy in order to rid it of rattles and such. My TLS has no squeeks or rattles, and has a very solid ride; it will also show your A6 it's taillights. The new Audis seem markedly improved over what they offered 3 or 4 years ago. I wanted the A4 Quattro (very nice) but the local dealer only carried the turbo4. I believe the turbo-4 A4 Quattro is faster than your A6 and doesn't squeak or rattle.

Please understand when I mentioned that GM also Ford needed to trim some fat from their vehicles I meant it from an engineering standpoint. They should spend the engineering dollars on building lighter weight vehicles with structural rigidity that equals or exceeds what they offer now. By doing so the benefit will be better performance, better handling, and superior fuel economy. It's a good start; they need to do something.

Formula 350

Yes... but there is still quality issues... I have a friend who bought one and the engine had a bad piston in about 500 miles... they replaced the engine and his second engine is starting to do the same thing at about 15,000 miles..

His dad has a Buick that has about 150,000 with no trouble...

parks31

GM will figure a way to make it look and feel cheap. It seems most of their designs and ideas are great but all is messed up between show cars and production. They will dumb down the style, make a cheaper version, throw on some small boring wheels. Three years after production they will try to fix it but it will be too late. examples, fiero, gto, numerous cadillacs, and many more.

CLpower

name one company that doesn't have quality issues. now 4 of the 7 BMW's in my family have been lemoned

Cary

Sure the 2007 TLS is not a monster accelerator, but it is faster than this G8 with a V8. I have purchased in excess of 20 very nice cars during my lifetime, and the TLS is good (maybe not great) in every way! By the way I can almost garantee the present day TLS will outhandle, and out accelerate this G8. SAD

CLpower

Cary, I'll bet $100 a stock TLS will not beat a G8 in any performance category. We'll compile different tests from the mags once they start testing and compare what is average.

kobi2002

One thing i hate about comparisions is that the tl is now coming up to 5 years old. All these car companies see how well the tl sold and the performance it had then made there own to be better. Before i start comparing, I'll wait till the new tl comes out then we will see what performance is about. its just unfair

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Like Honda never brings out a new model in the middle or toward the end of a competitor's product's life cycle?

Papa_Sean

bigman

Yeah, but i also have had friends with blown transmissions and engines in import cars as well. My uncle has a Supercharged Pontiac Gran Prix GTP with about 300,000 and all he's done was preventative maintenance. And most of buicks and pontiacs share the engines with the rest of GM's lineup with the exception of the North Star buick uses now.

Every car company has quality issues. GM has made great improvements lately, but one thing you cant knock is the reliability of their powertrains. Look at Honda and Toyota with tranny failures, or Mercedes with Electrical and mechanical gremlins.

The point i am making is that every car company has problems, and they fix them. GM is going in the right direction with the G8, and the car it's replacing has a legacy of being one of the most well built cars in GM's history. You will see the 1997-2007 Grand Prix's for many many years to come as they become a reliable and economical used car to own.

bigman

You will never have a fair comparison thinking like that. So does that mean that This Generation TL means shit when people were comparing it to the G35 a few years back? You cant look at it like that. So what you want is every car manufacturer to release all their cars at the same time for comparisons sake.

bigman

Dude, the current FWD Grand Prix GXP can out run the TL-S, not by because of the limitations of FWD and so much torque. But wait and see what the RWD G8 will do. I wouldnt be suprised if the top 6 cylinder version gives the TLS a run for its money. The V8 will be a whole differen ball game. And mod for mod, the 8cyl can make as much with bolt ons and a tune as a supercharged Typs S.

bkknight369

I dont have an A6...I was just using it as an example. But just because your TLS is faster, does it make it a better car than an A6? I have a 350z, and because its faster, does that mean its better than your TLS?

Performance is great, but the overall package is whats important. If GM puts together a car that is as well balanced and put together as a BMW 5 series or an A6, then they would have done an excellent engineering job, even if the car doesnt rip sub 6 second times

Cary

The Grand Prix GXP can outrun a TL Type-S? what are you smokin?

Cary

If GM does all of the things you mention; wait a minute GM puts something together as well balanced as a BMW? Sorry guys we'll have to settle and hope for something close maybe. GM is capable if they commit to the engineering it requires to do so, but GM has been perfuming the pig for far too long. This means they build something half-ass then try to make it look good visually and add lots of options to get people to buy it. Oh and don't forget the same model is on every street corner being rented out which completely ruins any chance at a decent trade in value. I've watched my GM products fall apart when they approach 50K mile regardless of how nice you treat it. When they start falling apart you think omg I need to get rid of this POS before I get hung with it so you go to trade it in and it aint worth #$%^. I would like to see GM get it together but when I hear about what some well paid employees here locally do for their $ I don't see how they can. Get rid of the union and fire the worthless fucks that don't have any pride in their work would be a good start but the union is so enmeshed in their operation I don't think they could.

Cary

ANY?

That's an easy bet for me.

Texas

C&D April estimates 0-60 below 5.5 and low 14s in the qtr...sounds conservative to me....the gt will have a six speed A/T or manual...handling should be at least as good as TL-S...RWD and only about 250 lbs more than S....

As we all know one ride will feel better to one and like crap to another....at least they may not have the rattle issue of our TSX and TL..

As for looks....bland and busy to me...may look better in person...Coupe (hard-top) would help (see A-5)...and is it just me or can they please lose the dune buggy antenna...

kobi2002

no you will never have a fair comparison ever. Not a honda fan just never liked a comparison factor.

kobi2002

You never seen me really compare either because of that. All i say is that when you do compare, there are to many factors involved and the main one is the date the car comes out. if you followed this trend you will find you will be jumping the fence every few years

kobi2002

I don't think so

bigman

Dude, seriously, my father has a 90 blazer with over 300k miles and all he has changed was a water pump, timing chain, tune up and valve cover gasket. Other than that it runs like a champ. While my 99 TL went through a handful of tranny's amd had a host of other problems. But it wouldnt be fair for me to generalize my one Acura experience across the whole lineup, like you are doing for your experience with GM. And around here TL's and TSX's are a dime a dozen while cars like the Grand Prix GXP are a lot rarer. I dont care if my car will be on every corner as long as i enjoy driving it. I guess the countless vette owners and 911 owners should hang their heads in shame with your mentality. Oh and Lotus rents the Elise with some car rental angencies, i guess Elise owners should be pissed as well. And i wont argue with resale value, although some GM cars are starting to hold their values very well.

bigman

The Type S must be the fastes car you've ever driven huh? A race between a Type S and a GXP is a drivers race period. An auto TLS will be beat by an auto GXP. The manual TLS and the GXP are within 10ths between each other in the 1/4/ 0-60 on the GXP is terrible because of all the torque on a fwd setup. But like i said it is a drivers race. And if each owner starts to mod their cars, the 5.3 will make more power mod for mod. Hell that 5.3 in the GXP is tuned so conservatively from GM that a dyno tune alone will yeild about 25 extras horses across the board. The Type S is a hot car, i've driven it a few times, but as it is, it goes toe to toe with the GXP(i am sure it will out handle the GXP). But, the G8 with RWD will be more of a competitor with the IS350 and the 335ci. Until acura does a rwd or awd setup with more than 300 horses, it wont put up much of a fight with the G8 and its powerful rwd setup.

kobi2002

A blazer with 300k miles is ultra rare. In fact that is ultra rare for any american car of that year to go 300k with just regular service. Regardless of this comparison it would be very hard for me to buy american with the track record i've had and others in the past. Not just one but many. And that is why GM is in trouble right now

bigman

Completely understandable. But there are plenty of high mile american cars though. I personally own an 89 beater jeep cherokee that currently has over 200k and is still on the original water pump. i love the truck so much i refuse to sell it and daily drive it year round. Maybe i have had extrodinary luck with american cars vs imports, but their are plenty of reliable imports in my family as well as unriliable ones.

Donte99TL

CLpower I agree with you. Also I think Cary still has the "New Car" feeling. You know when you buy a car and think its's faster and better than anything out there. I know I had those feeling before.

Cary

There is a little of the new car feeling, but I lost the "new car infatuation" several cars back. Look at my posts I never said the Type S is the fastest car out there. I thought my new 87 Somerset Regal or 89 Dodge Daytona Turbo was the fastest, or was it my new 91 SHO?It couldn't have been my new 92 Jeep Cherokee Lorado or.. As you can see I lost that feeling many years ago. I have purchased new about every 18 months(or less) since 1987.

I have been a subscriber to Car and Driver, Motortrend, and Road and Track for the last 2 decades (1987). I used to keep them all, last year my wife spent a weekend throwing them all out; they took up alot of room. So understand I have a very good idea of how fast cars are. The Type-s is very quick, but I wouldn't go as far as to say it is fast. If your vehicle doesn't break into 4 seconds in 0-60, or a quarter in the 12's, it is not fast!

Please don't assume to know how i'm feeling.

Cary

How do you throw the Corvette, Porsche, and the Lotus into this; the number of these vehicles in rental fleets are VERY FEW!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are damn lucky with your Blazer, I have owned 2 similar vehicles manufactured by GMC, both had nice HID lighting, stitched leather Bose sound and stickers closing on 40K, I wish I had the luck you had. Sounds like you had a lemon TL, or an abused TL if you purchased it used. Even Honda can screw up a good thing; they can't walk on water.

I personally think the Corvette is one of Chevy's greatest achievements. I plan on purchasing a nice low mileage Z06. THAT IS A FAST CAR! I am shopping for a new home that will accomodate it (3 car garage). In my opinion the Lotus Elise is junk in comparison; send em all to the rental fleets!!ahahaha

Cary

Why would I MOD a nice car? Buy a sports car when you want to go FAST. A 1999 or newer Z06 will beat any of these vehicles with "MODS" easily.

You say: Dude, the current FWD Grand Prix GXP can out run the TL-S, not by because of the limitations of FWD and so much torque. WTF did you say?