Hapa DC5

I always thought Toyotas are the ones known for sludge?

Is this issue just creeping up on Hondas with cylinder deactivation?

AZuser

If I had to drive a mini van, it'd be the current gen Toyota Sienna SE. Toyota really nailed the exterior styling of it IMO.

pimpin-tl

Don't say that till you see one...

jetmech77

We love our 2006 Odyssey! Fantastic Fuel Economy and other than fluid changes and vacuuming (kids) has been maintainance free!

Hapa DC5

It looks nice pimpin, I won't knock that part, but I'd feel a little foolish driving a minivan that looks like that.

I'll take a stock Sienna SE any given Sunday for soccer practice though

pimpin-tl

They don't have sludge issues for properly maintained engines when you read about the Toyota issues. Unlike the Hondas including the pilot which can be maintained but having severe sludge issues.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...2888072&page=1

Legend2TL

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/au...anted=all&_r=0

http://www.oilgelsettlement.com//

Oh really?

I've don't see too many oil sludge cases these days but most I'm guessing are maintenance related. I don't believe there are any design related sludge problems with the J series. The main motors I read about are the 1.8L turbo from Audi/VW. A neighbor has one and I tell him to go with more frequent oil changes since the turbo puts more thermal stress on the oil.

On terms of the V6 motors, the Honda J-series and Toyota GR series are both great motors. I give a slight technical nod to the J for being slightly smaller since it uses a SOHC vs DOHC design which allows smaller heads.

fsttyms1

Toyota engines have had sludge issues, so they arent exempt from it. In the Oddy, Most of the sludge issues appear to have been from running longer than they should oil change intervals (due to following the MMI) In general though Honda makes a far better engine, and there still isnt anything wrong with the J35 in the oddy, it just need a vcm software update and more frequent oil changes.

pimpin-tl

There are sludge related issues as I proved and you obviously ignored or didnt care to read the link. Real world tests.

Ownerw on bitog own those engines that were the ones in those articles and are clean as a whistle as they used sythetic and did 5k or so oil changes without issues. Some people neglected their maintenance on regular Dino oil and had sludge. Its maintenance not the engine and this has been proven and not by these articles.

pimpin-tl

As was proven by my link they did the changes normal or early and still had sludge issues. The pilot and ody are known to be sludge prone due to the cylinder cutoff

Facts are facts.

Legend2TL

You linked BITOG internet forum for a owner of Pilot reporting his problem, not sure what you mean by "proved".

I linked a NYT artilce which had

"On Wednesday, a state judge in Louisiana is scheduled to give final approval to an out-of-court settlement of a class-action suit against Toyota covering 3.5 million vehicles. Under the settlement, Toyota will repair vehicles with sludge damage if owners can prove a reasonable effort at maintenance."

I Googled and didn't see any class action law suits against Honda/Acura for sludge related problems. Here's some more on Toyota's sludge problems.

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/feb...ess/fi-toyota9

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...ettlement.html

http://toyotasludge.com/resources

just google, there's plenty out there

pimpin-tl

You are in such denial. Because the media annouces it must make it good and saying it doesnt exist. I frequent the forums and know whats happening while you do not. Not just one topic or person there are many with tests, pictures and so on in that topic and other topics. Honda has a huge issue.

03tLsNBP

iTrader: (9)

There shouldn't be any argument. Sienna > Odyssey.

My family has had both. Bought new in 01 Sienna XLE that we traded with 175K miles for a new 10 Odyssey EX-L with nav/dvd a few years back. And that was only because my parents wanted more features and leather. The only issues we had with the 01 was a broken power sliding door at ~100K and two bad catalytic converters at ~75K and again at ~125K. The guy bought the car after we traded it is now using it as his "work truck."

We looked at the 10 Sienna and actually liked it more but our friend at a Honda dealer gave us a killer deal on the Ody. Price was more important to my parents than things like ride quality, handling, reliability, and ergonomics. The Ody is harsh, has too much wind noise, no torque (and never goes into ECO mode because of this), and stupid interior ergonomics. I hate driving the thing when we go on long road trips. I have to yell for my passengers to hear me. I can't stand it. I usually love road trips but now I tell my parents that I'm not coming unless we rent another car. Which is pretty stupid considering we bought the Ody for long road trips.

We have 42K on the Ody now and we have warped front rotors every 15K (typical Honda issue, my TL does the same thing). My dad just spent over 700 on various issues. I didn't get a chance to see the invoice yet so I can't say why. The worst part is the weak brakes and rotor warping though. Apparently you can upgrade to Pilot calipers and rotors for stronger braking but the rotor warping still occurs.

oonowindoo

Based on Personal Experiences

Toyota is FAR FAR more reliable than Honda/Acura..

But They still drive like shit.

i just leased a 12 Oddy for my company EXL with Navi. Nice and all but it is so god damn weak! I think it is the Cylinder deactivation with Eco Mode.
I should have leased the Sienna SE.

Jakes_tl

I could not understand why in the world Honda can't get their brake figured out. They had this issue for decades.

I will say Toyota is better on Torque at least the low end torque.

Legend2TL

Toyota settled for a class action lawsuit for 3.5M vehicles so obviously they are not in denial.

On to the Sienna vs the Ody, I prefer the Ody for styling and I'm partial to Honda stuff. My sister-in-law has a 2010 Sienna and it's interior is really nice. I know a bunch of 2G and 3G Ody owners, the majority have had great experience with them. One just traded in their 3G for a new 4G, quality on the interior pieces has slipped some however.

I may not frequent the forums but have maintained ~20 Honda/Acura's for my immediate family from the mid 80's quite a few have gone past 200K with only maintenance. My wife's Pilot has 220K miles and still is on the original CV joint boots! So I know what works for me.

dom

My 07 Ody has been nothing but a PITA. Luckily it doesn't have VCM, co worker has all sorts of vibration issues on his 06 that are apparently VCM related.

03tLsNBP

iTrader: (9)

how many miles on his 06 when the vibration started? i want to keep an eye for any issues that may arise in the future, but hopefully any issues with VCM were ironed out by the 10 model year.

Moog-Type-S

^^ Tons of issues with VCM on the Oddy forums.

Thankfully my old Oddy didn't have VCM......as if I needed another thing to wrong on that car.

pimpin-tl

Rather own a Sienna that had Sludge issues vs a Honda that is having transmission failures, engine issues and all the number of things you just see here. The sludge can be fixed with Synthetic and 5k oil changes as that works fine. People using Dino oil and 5k oil changes had the issues.

Legend2TL

Believe what you want, I know the results I've seen with Honda/Acura products over 4 decades.

Although I'm pretty pissed at the CD player failure in 05 TL currently

Hapa DC5

^ the CD player went out?

I had a few radio issues with my 3G. One where the XM antenna would randomly go in and out of signal just driving through an open street. There was a TSB on the matter, but they said it was only for non-navi models.

The replaced the XM antenna once before

AZuser

Didn't notice warped rotors on the '10 Odyssey I test drove, but I did have to press the brake pedal to the floor to get it to stop. It had very weak/soft brakes. The Ody also liked pulling to the right.

I mentioned these things to the sales guy and he was like "That can't be possible. This car is certified. Everything was checked out to make sure everything is okay." He even pulled out Honda's certification check list from the glove box. I was like

One thing I really like about the Sienna is it's very quiet cabin and its strong yet smooth engine and acceleration.

Hapa DC5

Most Hondas seem to be notorious for weak brakes with rotors that easily warp, especially after some spirited driving or a few miles on it.

Legend2TL

Yeah, it's happened to others in the 3G section, AM/FM/XM works OK but will not play any disk.

I haven't had a chance to pull out the unit yet but may try this weekend. It's a real betch to get it out as you have to remove almost all of the center console panels.

I'm going to try to take the radio apart and see if there's any obvious problem but it's more electronic than mechanical since I can hear the disk spin up and disc changer work as well.

Like many modern Honda interiors they're a pain to work on.