gavriil

Just got the new Motor Trend mag at home and was surpirsed at the results of the comparo. The Caddy did better than I thought and the GTO worse than I thought. Here are some part of the article:

CTSV and GTO are 6MT cars, the SRT8 is a 5 speed automatic.

Source: Road and Track Magazine

gavriil

For a 5 speed automatic with 4200 pounds, the SRT8 did great. There's for sure 425HP in that motor, maybe even 440HP.

The CTSV is interesting. This is the quickest I have seen it go and probably the first time it's under 5 seconds for the 60 run. But it's interesting because it looks like the LS6 makes more than 400HP or the ratios are much shorter than the GTO's.

In another test, I remember the 400HP GTO doing 4.8. I think it was C&D's test.

heyitsme

Seems about right for the GTO with its weight, at least its respectable now and the price is probably close to what a camaro ss was out the door. When all is said and done, they should have just kept the camaro/trans am and updated them to more refined cars in 05/06. Wasted so much trying to get this car right and its still nothing exciting to look at.

cusdaddy

In C&D (I believe) they put the CTS-V up against the S4 and C55. The CTS-V ran a 4.7 or 4.8 0-60 I believe. They said the later model they tested seemed to fix some of the wheel hop that they experienced in the early pre-production models. Great think GM somewhat addressed that major issue, and the performance now looks great.

goldmemberer

Again, magazine racing shows its weakest point: the stress placed on price. While the GTO surely did underwhelm me with its numbers, a realistic OTD "good deal" price in the extremely low 30s really does make it one hell of a bargain. While it's not up to par with the CTS-V or the SRT8, it is definitely a competitor in stock form (hence the comparo) and with the extra 10k or 20k in your pocket, you could really make this thing go. Really, really make this thing go with any kind of FI.

Styling/overall everything-wise, my personal preference of these 3 would be the CTS-V. If only for the exclusivity and bold styling. The 300 looks great from the front, but the back & overpopularity of it kinda kills it for me.

gavriil

The mag says that the axle hop is still there, they just found the best way to minimize it at launch.

gavriil

From mag racing, I'd take the CTSV too, but who knows what I'd think after I drove all three. I have driven the 5.7 liter GTO and was not very impressed at the available power. IT felt much slower than on paper.

goldmemberer

Even as such, the GTO is still a very fast car for the money, and it's easy & fun to drive, which is why I called it a great bargain. I haven't driven one, so I can't speak from personal experience, but for a modder, the choice should easily be the GTO.

charliemike

The problem with the GTO is that it's not going to be worth anything on resale and even less if you mod it.

The GTO might be a nice idea but it's not a car someone will keep for 10 years and therefore a really bad purchase.

darrinb

what i didnt understand is that the cts-v was like 6 tenths quicker to 100mph but only finished .1 sec ahead of the pack at the 1/4 mile, prolly somethin to do with gearing, i dunno

i would of liked to see them put all the cars on the dyno to compare the ls2 vs ls6, and i would like to bet that the srt8 is puttin over 385 to the wheels, shit if all three of these cars werent do damn heavey they have the power to be running low 12's

CraZee ZO6

The LS6 dynos 10-20rwhp MORE than the NEW LS2.
LS6 was underatted for the zo6 at 405hp. They make 415-420hp generally to the crank STOCK.

Typical #'s Ive seen.
LS6= 360-370rwhp
LS2=340-350rwhp.

darrinb

i see that answers my question, cause the gto is lighter than the cts-v but still couldnt manage better #'s,

is it me or did you guys think the ls2 was gonna be alot stronger??

gavriil

That's interesting. From the dyno curves I have seen, the LS2 looks to be better than the LS6 in power. Mostly when it comes to the area under the power curve, as opposed to peak HP output.

gavriil

It might also be gearing. Let me check the mag for gearing specs.

gavriil

No gearing info in the mag. Checking web sites.

gavriil

2005 GTO
Tremec T56

First:
2.97

Second:
2.07

Third:
1.43

Fourth:
1.00

Fifth:
0.84

Sixth:
0.57

Reverse:
3.28

Final drive ratio:
3.46:1

CTSV

SAME AS ABOVE EXCEPT:

Final drive ratio:
3.73:1


----------

So the CTSV has an edge on ALL gears due to the shorter, more aggressive final gear ratio.

darrinb

i wonder how valid motor trends times are, some of these cars should be in the 12's

Ruski

Also people are now able to get GTOs for ~$25,000. Some people report getting a new 2004 GTO for ~$20,000

GOTTSPD

My father has a CTS-V and it is a really sweet car. Great exhaust note and it's pretty subtle looking. I think the GTO is really boring looking, so much so that I don't tend to see them and I would never get one. Of course, I have a huge car ego, so if I buy a "fast" car, I want it not just be fast, but to look fast....

gavriil

Yes but those are the 2004s as you wrote. They wonna get rid of those asap. They got way too negative press, both by the press as well as by the GOAT community.

gavriil

Agreed but let's make sure that we're all on the same page.

The GTO looks subtle when compared to its performance. But no one ever said that the GTO looks ugly (and I am not saying you said that).

My point is that the GTO's subtle looks have been critisized so heavily, the public has started to interpret these comments as "the GTO looks ugly" instead of "the GTO looks too subtle".

95gt

Good point. Finally saw my first GTO the other day on the road and ugly was not something that jumped into my mind. The car was just "boring". If i didn;t know about cars I would have thought it was a cavalier. Sad for such a great performance icon to have such lackluster looks.

Impressed with teh SRT8. That is going to be a balla's car

F23A4

When the GTO first hit the US market, I made similar comments (i.e.: 'Cavalier' look) and got flamed on this board.

Anywhooo, the GTO (for all its power and performance) is EXTREMELY non-descript in appearance. Between the three in this trifecta, I'd DEF take the CTS-V; the CTS (V or 3.6L) is the only all around sports sedan manufactured by any domestic automaker ( 300C fans) than can hold it's own against foreign competitors, IMHO.

charliemike

Don't feel badly. The 300C is no sports sedan

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Wow...the SRT-8 impresses, but that GTO seems like a massive disappointment.

95gt

Sorry they just like me better

F23A4

maybe.

gavriil

I dont agree about the GTO.

When I drove the 350HP version I impressed by the sound of the engine (and the mag praises that in the case of the 400HP car) and the sedan-like ride characteristics. I loved the design of the interior and the beautiful and supportive seats. There is much to like here. Now whith this engine, it goes like a previous generation 911. And all that for under 35K. How can you bash that package.

gavriil

I am wondering about the next CTSV. May that be next year or the next generation CTSV. What will GM do? Here are some personal scenarios:

1. If they want to continue in the 400HP category, do you drop the LS2 in there instead of the LS6 now.

2. Get rid of all pushrod engines and drop in the 440HP STSV engine.

3. Drop in the STSV engine after uptuning it by 20-40 HP.

4. Enlarging the current STSV engine to 5.0 or more liters and keeping it supercharged resulting in 500+ HP to go against the M5.

5. Put in the LS7 from the Z06.


In addition:

If GM decides to up the current 400HP of the CTSV by whatever additional horses, that for sure will mean that we will see an engine that has to be positioned between the 3.6 liter V6 and that future/theoritical engine. So the 4.6 liter, 320HP V8 from the STS (or whatever it will result into in the next year or two) makes a ton of sense in my opinion.

Then you're competing with the Germans head to head in all versions.

goldmemberer

#s 2-5 all give the CTS-V as much or more power than the STS-V... and I highly doubt that the smaller of the two will have more power under the hood than the bigger. That would be kinda like the M3 having a higher HP figure than its more mature, fatter brother.

charliemike

Not to mention the CTS-V has enough trouble with 400hp as it is ... Until the new chassis comes along I don't think they can go much higher.

Maximized

Well I think the LS7 will be the choice. I am sure GM has plans for it besides the Z06. The CTSV or Super V would be a great choice. Cadillac is sure impressing the hell out of me lately. The next gen CTSV will put Cadillac at the head of the high performance table.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Well, my thought is that at this level, the coupe should, in theory, be able to outperform the sedans. The GTO, despite being the smallest car of the group, fails to post the impressive numbers one would expect. I think my biggest disappointment was the slalom number, which is quite low when compared to the CTS-V and the SRT-8.

Overall, I think the GTO is a nice car (and I'm a huge fan of the HSVs), but it just isn't playing on the same level as the to other cars in this comparo.

Sypher

I'd love the CTS-V to be not just a 4-door corvette, but a 4-door Z06 Corvette!

And I can see the CTS-V having more power than the STS-V. The STS-V is for someone who likes the STS but wants more power. The CTS-V is for someone who wants a Corvette with four doors. People who like the big STS would probably still like the STS-V over the CTS-V, even if the CTS-V had a bigger engine.

gavriil

That's because you're forgetting that the GTO with the 400HP is the BASE GTO. The SRT8 and the CTSV are the top end versions of the brand. So your above expectation...

...will come true when The Judge GTO will come out next year Can you say 500HP (or slightly detuned) LS7 in it?

gavriil

True but the comparison with BMW's 3er and 5er does not apply in the case of the CTS and STS acurately. The reason is because the CTS is priced like a 3er but it's sized like a 5er. Although the STS is not as close to the 7er as the CTS is to the 5er, but still.

As I said before, I am finding it hard to pinpoint a DIRECT competitor for the STSV. Is it going against the M5? No way. I think it's closer to the V12 760i than anything else really.

So if that's the case, then the CTSV is left as a substitute for both the M3 and the M5, hence the possibility for 500HP while the STSV being at current power levels.

Sarlacc

that CTSV OWNS!!!!!