allmotor_2000

Yes, that would be an oxymoron!

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

BTW, I made this a sticky for you guys....let's see if we can get this done....

Titand19

thanks juniorbean

mr5parkle

iTrader: (1)

i'd like to wish titand19 and allmotor_2000 the best of luck on this project and hope that no flames or sh*t starts up b/c of lack of info. and etc.

and one question, would higher boost be available with cl-p's? and what's the potential in cl-p's?

SLY1TYPES

how reliable do you think it would be, could i use it as daily driver, how long do you think the engine would last. --little bit interested for the right price---

kevin
03
6-spd
icebox

Titand19

It's very reliable. That's the reason why we did not rush into this. I have been running the turbo for a while now. The turbo won't kick in unless you give it gas. For me, during regular driving, I can't even tell I have the turbo.

allmotor_2000

At 5psi, you are boosting just as much as the Comptech S/C... but with the intercooler its a colder intake-charge which reduces the chance for detonation. It's the same fuel-pump and FPR as the Comptech S/C... so in my opinion, its more reliable than the Comptech S/C... for significantly more power.

NSX-Tuner

I'm located in N. CA, but could make it down to S. CA. How much would you charge and how many hours to do the install?

Also, the CT's proto CLS 6sp has been dyno'd at around 325 whp. How much do you think a Turbo Charged (using your kit with 5lbs of boost) CLS 6sp with all the other CT mods would dyno at?

Titand19

Allmotor dynoed 350whp and 312lb when he had the kit on his car. After we make the kits, I will get my car dyno tuned with a VAFC and a few other additional mods. I also additionally have the crank pulley which allmotor did not have when he he had the turbo on his car. It gave me 10hp NA, who knows what it will do FI. I'm looking to get at least 15hp out of the VAFC. Hope to put down approx 400whp. Seems like a reach, but reasonably feasible.

scalbert

I am all for you guys doing this; in fact I may consider going the turbo route later on depending on decisions. But let's be honest about the numbers.

Allmotor dyno'd 319 at about 5 PSI boost. The 350 WHP number came by way of unbolting the exhaust and running more boost. This goes to show the potential of running a turbo but not indicative of the so far mentioned kit.

CCType-S

Is it with all CT bolt-on stuff to achieve 350whp?

scalbert

That is not a standard SC kit from Comptech. I believe they were running the higher boost pulley along with some other tricks such as the B-Pipe and exhaust to achieve those numbers.

scalbert

Please excuse me from nitpicking, but I am somewhat interested and as I mentioned before, may want to change FI methods at some point.

But stating that you will dyno after kits are made seems to be putting the cart before the horse. Additionally, what sense does it make to dyno a car with extra mods that will not be included in the kit? Most buyers want to know what to expect out of the kit. Not with other items added, the exhaust unbolted and running more boost than they will.

Also, have legal issues been consulted?? With a turbo it is far too easy to turn up the boost. If someone does and blows their engine what legal aspects are planned for?? We witness deceivers on this board everyday; people running nitrous and wanting warranty service. So the possibility is real and one all tuners need to deal with.

Titand19

Scalbert, I will be dyno tunning my car after the kits are made. I highly reccommend that anyone with FI get some form of A/F device. The original kit will be coming off my car within the next few days.

In terms of legal issues, the car runs perfect at 5psi. Anyone who turns up the boost should be aware of the consequences.

schoeny14

just to get this straight when allmotor dyno'd at 319HP is was with just the turbo kit at 5psi and no other mods? i'm just trying to get an idea of exactly what gains will be expected

allmotor_2000

Okay... all you guys are wrong!!!

I dyno'd 327whp with STOCK EXHAUST... and 345whp with the exhaust unbolted. If you had an aftermarket exhaust (which the Comptech prototype car has)... I estimate around 335-340whp @ 5.5psi. I did NOT increase the boost at all during the dyno session. I only increased the boost by 1psi when I took it to the track on race-gas.

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/gunjan_ra...c=ph%26.view=t

The YELLOW # is 5.5psi STOCK EXHAUST
The GREEN # is 5.5psi EXHAUST UNBOLTED

A 'fair' # with an aftermarket exhaust would be around 335whp.

The Comptech 'prototype' has the lightened flywheel AND the 7psi pulley among other mods. I am sure if I bolted the turbo back onto my car now, it would be ~400whp @ 5.5psi - no exaggeration.

However, on a stock CL-S 6spd with stock manifolds, stock exhaust etc., I'll expect 295-305whp, honestly. The true potential is realized with an exhaust system.

importtuner

You're right on the money allmotor; true potential is gained from the exhaust and downpipe system. I'm sure with a custom exhaust, a lot of power can be obtained at the same boost level. But damn; that's crazy you get that much power from just that much boost. Congrats man and good luck on sales.

NSX-Tuner

How can you say that "... its more reliable than the Comptech S/C... for significantly more power"? The more power an engine outputs, the less reliable it will become. Also, have there been any reported problems with the CompTech SC?

Don't get me wrong. I'm interested in the turbo kit you guys are looking to sale. But CompTech has put a lot of time into development to make the SC and engine reliable enough to last a reasonable number of miles. Can you claim the same? Your turbo kit is very new and has only been installed in a couple of cars. So I'm a little worry about your claim of better reliability than the CT SC, especially with some of the power output claims.

For what your plan to sell this kit for, I would expect it to be of the same or better quality than the CT SC kit and hopefully a purely bolt-on solutions with all the necessary parts and no special hacks required, completely documented with assembly drawing, parts list and comprehensive instructions.

allmotor_2000

I am basing the 'reliability claim' for a GIVEN boost-level... say 5psi. I am using the Comptech FPR and in-tank fuel pump. So... would you agree that @ 5psi (all else being the same), the turbo-kit would achieve the SAME reliability as the Comptech S/C? Mechanical components are a different issue. This is an 'Eaton' vs. 'Garrett' issue.

Now... add the intercooler (cooler intake-charge). This helps curb detonation. Would this increase reliability or decrease reliability?

You are wrong to say 'the more power an engine outputs, the less reliable it will become'. If they boost the same and have the same fuel-pressure/psi, but one makes more power... that doesn't make it unreliable... just more efficient! Honestly, each car is different. I suggest each owner tune his/her car... this is just how it is unless we can provide a reprogrammed ECU!

I am not saying ours is a better solution than Comptech. It's a 'different' solution. The plan is a completely bolt-on kit with documented instructions, parts list and drawings.

The reason we have brought this to the attention of this forum is for interest. I/we are not going to spend time doing all this if there is no interest!!

schoeny14

allmotor, do you foresee any possible problems with the clutch/transmission holding up to this much power? as well as the internal engine components? i know its running basically same boost at the comptech SC, but you know your our engine real well so i figured you'd be the one to ask

NSX-Tuner

Thanks for answering these questions....

Concerning the reliability of TC vs. SC...

I guessing it would be correct to say that a SC at idle saps some of the engine's hp (just a few) through the SC pulleys, impellers, etc... From idle to WOT, the SC will proportionally sap more engine hp to make hp in order to induce increased intake manifold pressure. In other words, WOT @ 6000 RPM might produce a gross increase in hp of say 60whp, but the SC pulleys, impellers, etc... might eat up 10 whp, so the net would be 50 whp. The lost 10 whp would be seen by the engine as additional stress, heat, wear...

Conversly, a Turbo Charger requires much less hp to make hp since only the exhaust pressure on the turbine impellers is used to induce increased intake manifold pressure.

Hence, you claim that the Turbo Charger can be more reliable than a SC with the same amount of boost. However, I don't believe anything comes for free. I would expect that the exhaust valves, seats and guides might see more stress and/or wear with the Turbo Charger.

I understand that your kit will allow each person to set the boost level according to their needs. Will you provide guidelines and warnings for these different available range of boost settings? You may also want to consider setting a safe max boost level to protect yourselves from liability.

Also, CT claims 100k mile warranty for their SC with a suggested maintenance schedule. What can we expect for the Turbo Charger (turbine unit)?

scalbert

Actually 1 - 1.5 PSI more with the standard pulley.

scalbert

Okay, I could be wrong here and am basing this on my experience with two DSM's and my old Typhoon, but exhaust changes does not make HP entirely alone for a turbo per say. The change in delta P allows for more boost to be run, increased response and holding the boost longer. The later being pinnacle here. There are some effects of decreased back pressure adding some power along with decreased temperature, but these are minimal in comparison to the change in the boost curve.

Such as with my Typhoon and GS-T (with the T-25, T-Too Small) where boost would trail off as the revs climbed. With the exhaust opened up they both ran more boost of course, but mainly they were able to hold the boost they were making longer. This then increased the torque at the higher revs and subsequently increased HP noticeably.

So they made no more peak boost but actually made more boost at the higher revs and more peak power.

scalbert

BTW, you should have done your kit earlier and offered this six months ago.

One other thing, are you using the stock exhaust manifolds or are the Comptech headers required?? Lastly, will the shift linkage counter weight need to be cut or is the kit being redesigned??

As mentioned, depending on how a few things pan out and some decisions are made, I may go this route. Hrmm, a 3.5L turbo CL-S6 running 1.3 Bar...

mantis23

I said it once, and I'll say it again, if i had a 6 speed, I'd be all up in this.

allmotor_2000

Cutting the shifter counter-weight needs to be fixed... that can't be part of a production kit. Running more boost is upto the owner... he/she needs to figure out the timing/fuel parameters for such if he/she is so inclined.

On the previous question... the stress/strain on the exhaust-valves, ring-landings etc is more dependant on EGT (Exhaust Gas Temp), A/F (Air Fuel Ratio, IAT (Intake Air Temp) and Cylinder Temps than it is on even 2-3psi of boost!!!

You guys need to understand that PSI is not killing the motors (unless you boost some ungodly amount!!).

In terms of reliability... I ran my car HARD for 2 months with the kit... and now its NA and is running stronger than ever

Titand19

I've been running the shit out of my car. Everything is great. I normally do multiple runs up to about 135mph about 3 times a week. Just to make sure everything is running ok

Also, I will provide instuctions on both paper and in video format to ease installation.

JaDia4

I'm interested. I'd just like to see some dyno results.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

You may need to turn up the brightness... but he had it dynoed a while ago....

Juker008

:thinking:...... .










Juker008

Juker008

19 pounds...hmm I would think u would've wanted 1.4 bars :P .










Juker008

Juker008

Same here but FK it. Just take it out and go back to stock for a new tranny. When the 100K is up do a tranny swap or get rid of the car. Lets pray for the best and maybe someone comes out with a reinforcement kit for our trannies.








Juker008

Titand19

OK guys, so, Who's down?

blazerbob1

Go Allmotor and titand19!!! The fact you guys are considering this turbo build for our CL's rocks!!! My only problem is I have
the sick slushbox! Keep up the hard work and common people, what are you waiting for?! If I only had a 6spd!!!

Thanks again for your attempt at making our CL's fast as a Vette or whatever!!!

Titand19

I think we are waiting for some serious people. So far it seems that the only people interested have autos. Just out of curiousity, who has an auto and would be down?

civic4982

I can't wait to see this project progress. I'm just now catching up in the mods department to all you guys since have asummer job.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

I can't say I'd be definite b/c of a new mortgage and all... but if I could work it out... I would be down....

Titand19

The project will not begin until we get some serious people involved. As of now, there are no members who have confirmed that they would want the kit and would be able to put down a deposit.

BlueCLS6

I will chime in again to say that I am very interested. I live near and have met "Allmotor" and would love to help out with the fab work (just to be involved and to learn). As for the downpayment, I will be better able to guage when that will be available next week when I find out what my raise will be from a recent promotion. Thanks for creating the opportunity...

Titand19

BlueCLS6, seeing as you are the only one who is interested, I guess we're justing waiting for you to start production.