Oly EP-2, Pan GF1, Newly announced Sony NEX 3/5???
05-11-2010, 09:55 AM
#1
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Oly EP-2, Pan GF1, Newly announced Sony NEX 3/5???
Anyone have any thoughts or experience with these 4/3s cameras?
They have really been intriguing me as of late. I fell in love with the retro chic of the olympus but the reviews are so so and supposedly the 20mm pancake lens isnt that great (and that is the lens I would most likely want 100% of the time.)
The GF1 got pretty good reviews. The 20mm pancake is supposed to be great, and while the body isnt IS like the Oly the lens is 1.7 opposed to a 2.8 and I believe it can mount Leica Glass.
Sony just announced their new 4/3s cameras and they decent as well, in body IS like the Oly and a pancake 16mm and a flip out screen. Though I would most likely hate their menu system.
Anyway, I'm not ready to buy as of yet if at all, but I am very curious about them. I think it would be cool to have a more range finder-sque body to have a walk around camera...I dont always need to be hauling the giant D3 around...that thing does a number on my back after a few hours.
They have really been intriguing me as of late. I fell in love with the retro chic of the olympus but the reviews are so so and supposedly the 20mm pancake lens isnt that great (and that is the lens I would most likely want 100% of the time.)
The GF1 got pretty good reviews. The 20mm pancake is supposed to be great, and while the body isnt IS like the Oly the lens is 1.7 opposed to a 2.8 and I believe it can mount Leica Glass.
Sony just announced their new 4/3s cameras and they decent as well, in body IS like the Oly and a pancake 16mm and a flip out screen. Though I would most likely hate their menu system.
Anyway, I'm not ready to buy as of yet if at all, but I am very curious about them. I think it would be cool to have a more range finder-sque body to have a walk around camera...I dont always need to be hauling the giant D3 around...that thing does a number on my back after a few hours.
05-11-2010, 10:26 AM
#2
I have thought about these as well, mainly when the EP-1 came out. Noisy image and slow auto focus have kept me away. I heard that the EP-2 still suffers from slow AF. So to me it's just a bigger P&S.
This is the reason a bought a D90, my wife can use it and I can take when I don't want to haul the D3s.
There's has been talk about Nikon putting out a EVIL. I'd like to see it before I start messing with another system.
This is the reason a bought a D90, my wife can use it and I can take when I don't want to haul the D3s.
There's has been talk about Nikon putting out a EVIL. I'd like to see it before I start messing with another system.
05-11-2010, 10:53 AM
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Read the reviews on the GF1 and the announcement on the Sony and let me know what you think.
It would be nice to see if Nikon did such a thing, but I dont believe they have any "pancake" lenses...though running around with my current 24 wouldnt be so bad.
At this stage, i just dont want to back to compacts. The G11 is a nice option...but I'm really feeling these micro cameras...I guess their marketing or design worked, its got me suckered.
Truth be told I REALLY want a M9 with a 24mm....but lets be real. the lens itself is as much as a high end DSLR...That just aint happening.
It would be nice to see if Nikon did such a thing, but I dont believe they have any "pancake" lenses...though running around with my current 24 wouldnt be so bad.
At this stage, i just dont want to back to compacts. The G11 is a nice option...but I'm really feeling these micro cameras...I guess their marketing or design worked, its got me suckered.
Truth be told I REALLY want a M9 with a 24mm....but lets be real. the lens itself is as much as a high end DSLR...That just aint happening.
05-11-2010, 11:10 AM
#4
Seems with Sony, their just getting to the dance, and that UI, 
The Panny GF1 is the second release of their attempt to go 4/3rd's. Many swear by it. But I can't bring myself to by Panasonic.
The Panny GF1 is the second release of their attempt to go 4/3rd's. Many swear by it. But I can't bring myself to by Panasonic.
05-11-2010, 12:55 PM
#5
Big Block go VROOOM!
From what I've read the AF on the Olympus is supposed to be annoyingly slow compared to the AF on the GF1. Also, if you think you may shoot jpg in any notable amount then the in-camera processing on the Panny apparently gives results that are somewhat flat and lifeless compared to the Olympus.
BTW, both the Panny and the Olympus are technically "micro 4/3" mount. Same sensor as straight-up 4/3 but a different lens mount since there's no mirror box to be concerned with in the "micro" format. Maybe I missed something, but from the quick look I just did, the Sony cameras appear to be their own proprietary mount and not m43. Part of the beauty of m43 is that it can be adapted to nearly any glass out there. Will the same hold true with the Sony?
Other random thoughts...Nothing other than extra $'s stopping you from getting the Olympus body and the Panny 20mm pancake. You could always go with something like Voigtlander's offerings in the Leica M mount for sanely-priced quality MF glass in small package.
BTW, both the Panny and the Olympus are technically "micro 4/3" mount. Same sensor as straight-up 4/3 but a different lens mount since there's no mirror box to be concerned with in the "micro" format. Maybe I missed something, but from the quick look I just did, the Sony cameras appear to be their own proprietary mount and not m43. Part of the beauty of m43 is that it can be adapted to nearly any glass out there. Will the same hold true with the Sony?
Other random thoughts...Nothing other than extra $'s stopping you from getting the Olympus body and the Panny 20mm pancake. You could always go with something like Voigtlander's offerings in the Leica M mount for sanely-priced quality MF glass in small package.
05-11-2010, 12:57 PM
#6
No, Sony has their own mount, not 4/3. They'll have an adapter that could use Sony regular mount lenses, but no one elses.
05-11-2010, 01:15 PM
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05-11-2010, 08:45 PM
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From what I've read the AF on the Olympus is supposed to be annoyingly slow compared to the AF on the GF1. Also, if you think you may shoot jpg in any notable amount then the in-camera processing on the Panny apparently gives results that are somewhat flat and lifeless compared to the Olympus.
BTW, both the Panny and the Olympus are technically "micro 4/3" mount. Same sensor as straight-up 4/3 but a different lens mount since there's no mirror box to be concerned with in the "micro" format. Maybe I missed something, but from the quick look I just did, the Sony cameras appear to be their own proprietary mount and not m43. Part of the beauty of m43 is that it can be adapted to nearly any glass out there. Will the same hold true with the Sony?
Other random thoughts...Nothing other than extra $'s stopping you from getting the Olympus body and the Panny 20mm pancake. You could always go with something like Voigtlander's offerings in the Leica M mount for sanely-priced quality MF glass in small package.
BTW, both the Panny and the Olympus are technically "micro 4/3" mount. Same sensor as straight-up 4/3 but a different lens mount since there's no mirror box to be concerned with in the "micro" format. Maybe I missed something, but from the quick look I just did, the Sony cameras appear to be their own proprietary mount and not m43. Part of the beauty of m43 is that it can be adapted to nearly any glass out there. Will the same hold true with the Sony?
Other random thoughts...Nothing other than extra $'s stopping you from getting the Olympus body and the Panny 20mm pancake. You could always go with something like Voigtlander's offerings in the Leica M mount for sanely-priced quality MF glass in small package.
Jup, what do you have against Panasonic? I mean, they wouldnt be my first choice for certain things, but I was told a lot people say this great leica alternative.
I would only shoot RAW, so the the JPEG issues are no concern to me. I read the review on dpreview last night.
05-11-2010, 09:12 PM
#9
Just a stigma with them, that there's always been better products than what they put out. But as you said, many people rave about what it'll do.
05-12-2010, 12:41 AM
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06-19-2010, 10:09 PM
#11
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Man I am still torn between the GF1 and EP2...I thought I was sold on the GF1 but I have no freakin clue.
06-19-2010, 10:34 PM
#12
After carrying my D3s and D300s, carrying the D90 is like a kids toy...
06-19-2010, 11:30 PM
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But for things such as the show I'm on right now...I have so much other gear to carry, adding my camera bag to the mix is just too much.
06-19-2010, 11:42 PM
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have you looked at the NEX-5 reviews?
06-19-2010, 11:46 PM
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06-19-2010, 11:51 PM
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haha i was gonna say something about the proprietary stuff.
not interested in the E-PL1?
not interested in the E-PL1?
06-19-2010, 11:56 PM
#17
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lacks features because of its smaller size
06-19-2010, 11:57 PM
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what are the main things the EP2 has that the PL1 doesnt
06-20-2010, 12:08 AM
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" The third is a current DSLR owners looking for a smaller second camera.
It's this last type of user that are least likely to really enjoy the E-PL1 - the more compact-camera-like interface could and probably should encourage them to look up to the E-P2 (even if the PL1's images have a slight edge and its handling with manual focus lenses is arguably better). The enthusiast compact owners will be immediately at home, however, and are the group likely to get the most out of the E-PL1 - being happy to play with shooting settings and delve into the menus to tailor the camera to the way they want it to work."
It's this last type of user that are least likely to really enjoy the E-PL1 - the more compact-camera-like interface could and probably should encourage them to look up to the E-P2 (even if the PL1's images have a slight edge and its handling with manual focus lenses is arguably better). The enthusiast compact owners will be immediately at home, however, and are the group likely to get the most out of the E-PL1 - being happy to play with shooting settings and delve into the menus to tailor the camera to the way they want it to work."
06-20-2010, 12:09 AM
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sucks, the epl1 and the ep2 appear to be better low light performers...
the gf1 seems to be the overall better camera though.
the gf1 seems to be the overall better camera though.
06-20-2010, 12:09 AM
#21
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ah
06-20-2010, 12:09 AM
#22
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yeah I like the GF1. I just dont like the price. 
06-20-2010, 12:13 AM
#23
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the EP2 is even more.
06-20-2010, 12:15 AM
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damn.
06-20-2010, 12:18 AM
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there is a deal right now with GF1 where they giving away the Elec VF for free...but i think its only the 14-45 lens... which is supposed to be really good....but its a 3.5-56 
The 20mm 1.7 is supposed to be REALLY good....also will fit on the Oly. But thats even more money spent.
The 20mm 1.7 is supposed to be REALLY good....also will fit on the Oly. But thats even more money spent.
06-20-2010, 01:08 PM
#26
I don't get that with the D90, though it's not built as svelte as the higher models. It does not feel cheap, to me. I know when I carry it, I do with only a superzoom and a 35mm.
06-20-2010, 02:05 PM
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Plus the d90 isn't as small as a gf1 nor does nikon have the pancake lenses. I want the small form factor.
06-20-2010, 03:35 PM
#28
I can see wanting something small, I tried to find as well. But was never happy with the end results, maybe one of the newer bodies can fulfill this, I wait until something hits the market to people are coming over.
06-20-2010, 06:06 PM
#29
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english?
get what youre saying cept the last sentence.
get what youre saying cept the last sentence.
06-20-2010, 06:54 PM
#30
"That" people are coming over. Shooting their wad, just have to have.
06-20-2010, 07:26 PM
#31
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Gotcha.
Everything I've read about the GF1 said everyone ran out to get them. Read the dpreview review...the conclusion page.
Everything I've read about the GF1 said everyone ran out to get them. Read the dpreview review...the conclusion page.
06-21-2010, 10:13 AM
#32
I've been Canonized ;)
Just a reminder to convert lenses to 35mm ( double the lens). I've owned an Oly digital for a few years, E-500 when it was a new model, and was very disappointed in it's noise. Rarely shot anything above 400. I'm sure improvements have been made in that respect since then, but that has been an issue with them. Oly is a hit with their high grade or super high grade lineup, though they get pricey. My 11-22 (22-44 equivalent) was a favorite. Fast lenses aren't there I'm sorry to say. F2.0 is their fastest I believe and you will pay for that. Just a little FYI.
06-21-2010, 10:40 AM
#33
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The EP2 has a pancake 17mm (34mm) that is a 2.0 but they have in body IS.
The GF1 has a 20mm (40) that is a 1.7mm, no IS (only in SOME of their lenses) The 20mm has gotten some of the best reviews for glass for the M43 format.
The GF1 has a 20mm (40) that is a 1.7mm, no IS (only in SOME of their lenses) The 20mm has gotten some of the best reviews for glass for the M43 format.
06-21-2010, 11:58 AM
#34
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I'm hoping you pull the trigger on one - would love to hear your review. For some of the more intense and multi-day hikes I'm working toward, I won't have room in my pack for a dslr, but want better than p&s quality shots. 
06-21-2010, 04:16 PM
#35
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Well, I went to Samys and spent time playing with them and shooting on my own cards to take hope to scrutinize.
All the Samys are out of stock on the GF1...so I used a G1...same chip, menus, 20mm, etc
I REALLY thought I was sold on the GF1 after all the reading...but once you get them in your hands its a whole different ballgame...Shot everything RAW...no scenes or any junk like that.
One of the big knocks on panny's system are the menus. The camera itself was actually pretty intuitive for me, but when I started hunting for specific items is when I started getting a tad lost. Really, I think it has more to do with the visual look of their menus...which seems to pre-date DOS. The EP menus can also be confusing and dont look like much, but still look better. And overall they are a little easier to navigate.
The screen on the back of the G1 is very nice. The controls are easy. I did have an issue pointing the camera to the sky and getting it focus on infinity...it wouldnt. AF is decent in speed.
The screen on the back of the EP is as the reviews say..not as high res as it should be. And in dark light levels it falls apart into noise, where the G1 stays looks slick. The Elec viewfinder on the EP is pretty choice and orientates ups for waist level/rangefinder style shooting. It does increase the size profile of the camera though...but quickly attaches and removes.
Image quality:
Everything I was told said these cameras tended to be more saturated. I felt this was very untrue. In fact colors seemed flatter and less vibrant than the EP, which seemed more accurate to the eye. A pic from the G1 taken in warm sunlight looked more like a slightly overcast day straight out of the camera. Where on the EP2 a pic in warm sunlight looked like it was taken in warm sunlight, very natural. Which is funny since the EP's color temp was 100 degrees cooler than the G1.
ASA...far less choices for ASA when compared to the EP. I think its highest ASA is 1600 if I remember correctly. The EP doesnt just go from 100 to 200. It also has all the inbetweens, 100, 125, 160, 200, 250, 320, 400, 500, 640, 800, 1000, 1250, 1400, 1600, 2000, 2500...etc etc etc all the way to 6400.
And as the reviews say the camera outshines the G1 (GF1) in lowlight.
A lot of reviews bag on the speed of the AF of the EP saying its horrendously slow, so I was expecting to sit there there in agony and wait for AF. Honestly, the AF is not horrid at all. No, its not as fast as a DSLR...but I'd put it on par with more good P&S cameras. Takes a quick second and youre good to go. Once I saw it wasnt as slow as everyone makes it out to be, I never thought about it again. The G1 (GF1) was faster but not by much if I remember correctly.
I did put the lumix 20mm on the EP and really liked the results.
Overall...I kind of want to say I am disappointed in both when it comes to the photos. Maybe I have completely spoiled myself shooting with the D3 over the last few years. But when I looked at the shots from both cameras taken out side in daylight...and I see noticeable grain/noise in the image at 200 ISO at 1:1 in Lightroom....I got bummed out. I mean 200 wasnt bad....320-400....not good to me at all, 400 and up is terrible in daylight. Of course pics look great in "fit" mode. But 1:1 really give away the flaws of both cameras. Now why would you shoot such high ISO in daylight? YOu most likely would shoot anything over 320...but with the D3 I sometimes go 400 when shooting cars to help see into the shadows detail down around the grill/wheel wells.
Again...this is all just looking at the images 1:1...I dont want to say I'm pixel peeping...but I would be hesitant to print an image full size from these cameras...I dont know. I havent LR3 and the new NR feature on them. And you have to be careful using NR if you want to retain a sharp image.
100 ASA is ok...but has issues clipping in highlight on both cameras, as per the reviews.
I wouldnt use the EP past 1600 ASA, which gets pretty noisy...anything over is like shooting the super high ISO on the Nikon....best if done as black and white with all the noise and grain.
Since I didnt actually hold/feel/touch the GF1 I cant really say what I do or dont make of it. I liked the g1's front finger scroll wheel that you use to change aperture and shutter just by pushing it in to change between the two. On the EP there is a side scroll wheel on back in the upper right which changes aperture when pushed in that mode. And a canon like scroll dial down near the screen that you use for the shutter.
Overall...I really liked the EP2...which shocked me since I was so ready to think the GF1 was the camera to go for. Of course, its the EP2 that got me interested in this whole sub-genre to begin with...just funny I went back to it after everything I've read for the last month said GF1, GF1, GF1. There is just something FUN about the EP2 and shooting with it.
The winning combo to me is the EP2 with the Lumix 20mm....what sucks is the EP2 body only is a shitty $50 bucks less than getting it with a lens (where the GF1 costs hundreds less minus a lens) and the 20mm is $400.....
So, Now that we know the "winner" is the EP2....the question is, is the money worth the mild disappointment in overall pic quality. I know that it is unfair to expect D3 quality in every camera...and I shoot pics with my iphone all the time.
And I most likely get and use the 17mm 2.8. Cant justify getting the 20mm 1.7 for the added money at the moment sadly, even though I really do agree with the reviews and think its a overall better and sharper lens. And the 1.7 combined with the in body IS on the EP2 is great.
So, what's a girl to do????!?!?!
All the Samys are out of stock on the GF1...so I used a G1...same chip, menus, 20mm, etc
I REALLY thought I was sold on the GF1 after all the reading...but once you get them in your hands its a whole different ballgame...Shot everything RAW...no scenes or any junk like that.
One of the big knocks on panny's system are the menus. The camera itself was actually pretty intuitive for me, but when I started hunting for specific items is when I started getting a tad lost. Really, I think it has more to do with the visual look of their menus...which seems to pre-date DOS. The EP menus can also be confusing and dont look like much, but still look better. And overall they are a little easier to navigate.
The screen on the back of the G1 is very nice. The controls are easy. I did have an issue pointing the camera to the sky and getting it focus on infinity...it wouldnt. AF is decent in speed.
The screen on the back of the EP is as the reviews say..not as high res as it should be. And in dark light levels it falls apart into noise, where the G1 stays looks slick. The Elec viewfinder on the EP is pretty choice and orientates ups for waist level/rangefinder style shooting. It does increase the size profile of the camera though...but quickly attaches and removes.
Image quality:
Everything I was told said these cameras tended to be more saturated. I felt this was very untrue. In fact colors seemed flatter and less vibrant than the EP, which seemed more accurate to the eye. A pic from the G1 taken in warm sunlight looked more like a slightly overcast day straight out of the camera. Where on the EP2 a pic in warm sunlight looked like it was taken in warm sunlight, very natural. Which is funny since the EP's color temp was 100 degrees cooler than the G1.
ASA...far less choices for ASA when compared to the EP. I think its highest ASA is 1600 if I remember correctly. The EP doesnt just go from 100 to 200. It also has all the inbetweens, 100, 125, 160, 200, 250, 320, 400, 500, 640, 800, 1000, 1250, 1400, 1600, 2000, 2500...etc etc etc all the way to 6400.
And as the reviews say the camera outshines the G1 (GF1) in lowlight.
A lot of reviews bag on the speed of the AF of the EP saying its horrendously slow, so I was expecting to sit there there in agony and wait for AF. Honestly, the AF is not horrid at all. No, its not as fast as a DSLR...but I'd put it on par with more good P&S cameras. Takes a quick second and youre good to go. Once I saw it wasnt as slow as everyone makes it out to be, I never thought about it again. The G1 (GF1) was faster but not by much if I remember correctly.
I did put the lumix 20mm on the EP and really liked the results.
Overall...I kind of want to say I am disappointed in both when it comes to the photos. Maybe I have completely spoiled myself shooting with the D3 over the last few years. But when I looked at the shots from both cameras taken out side in daylight...and I see noticeable grain/noise in the image at 200 ISO at 1:1 in Lightroom....I got bummed out. I mean 200 wasnt bad....320-400....not good to me at all, 400 and up is terrible in daylight. Of course pics look great in "fit" mode. But 1:1 really give away the flaws of both cameras. Now why would you shoot such high ISO in daylight? YOu most likely would shoot anything over 320...but with the D3 I sometimes go 400 when shooting cars to help see into the shadows detail down around the grill/wheel wells.
Again...this is all just looking at the images 1:1...I dont want to say I'm pixel peeping...but I would be hesitant to print an image full size from these cameras...I dont know. I havent LR3 and the new NR feature on them. And you have to be careful using NR if you want to retain a sharp image.
100 ASA is ok...but has issues clipping in highlight on both cameras, as per the reviews.
I wouldnt use the EP past 1600 ASA, which gets pretty noisy...anything over is like shooting the super high ISO on the Nikon....best if done as black and white with all the noise and grain.
Since I didnt actually hold/feel/touch the GF1 I cant really say what I do or dont make of it. I liked the g1's front finger scroll wheel that you use to change aperture and shutter just by pushing it in to change between the two. On the EP there is a side scroll wheel on back in the upper right which changes aperture when pushed in that mode. And a canon like scroll dial down near the screen that you use for the shutter.
Overall...I really liked the EP2...which shocked me since I was so ready to think the GF1 was the camera to go for. Of course, its the EP2 that got me interested in this whole sub-genre to begin with...just funny I went back to it after everything I've read for the last month said GF1, GF1, GF1. There is just something FUN about the EP2 and shooting with it.
The winning combo to me is the EP2 with the Lumix 20mm....what sucks is the EP2 body only is a shitty $50 bucks less than getting it with a lens (where the GF1 costs hundreds less minus a lens) and the 20mm is $400.....
So, Now that we know the "winner" is the EP2....the question is, is the money worth the mild disappointment in overall pic quality. I know that it is unfair to expect D3 quality in every camera...and I shoot pics with my iphone all the time.
And I most likely get and use the 17mm 2.8. Cant justify getting the 20mm 1.7 for the added money at the moment sadly, even though I really do agree with the reviews and think its a overall better and sharper lens. And the 1.7 combined with the in body IS on the EP2 is great.
So, what's a girl to do????!?!?!
06-21-2010, 04:22 PM
#36
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damn I thought the GF1 was over 1g. I didnt know its available for $740 with the 14-45 lens. pretty nice.
06-21-2010, 04:34 PM
#37
06-21-2010, 04:37 PM
#38
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uploading sample pics...raw and processed, etc, taking some time.
06-21-2010, 05:01 PM
#39
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OK, sample pics.
All the info is in the image titles...camera/lens/ASA/raw or processed. Or you can look at the metadata.
All the info is in the image titles...camera/lens/ASA/raw or processed. Or you can look at the metadata.
06-21-2010, 05:02 PM
#40
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ugh
Last edited by srika; 06-21-2010 at 05:04 PM.