So I found out last night that my previous camera (Canon PS D2 Si) has some issues beyond what I want to get repaired (stuck shutter and possibly some corrosion inside the case)

I feel pretty confident about my photo skills, and have decided to make the step up to a DSLR as long as I am in the market for a new camera. Unfortunately I do not have a grand to just go out and buy what I want - but I also feel a camera is something that I cannot just go without.

I have been looking into Sony's AS200, the Rebel XS line, and a Nikon D60. Unfortunately I don't have enough experience to really make a qualified decision on my own, so I'm asking for some advice - whether it be some tips and pointers, or to steer me in a totally different direction.

This camera would just be for my personal use - I do not take professional photos, nor do I plan on needing to ever use it outside of a family / vacation / sports enviroment. I mainly will be taking "object" shots, people, and wildlife photos.

So what can you all tell me?

 

Forget Sony, there's not a lot there if you want to expand, currently. I don't like the D60 because there is only 3 AF points. Try and find a XSi, not an XS. If you want one with video Nikon D5000.

 

I agree, go for Canon or Nikon. Both will help you take great pics. I did a lot of research before buying my D60 a few months back. I looked at all the Nikon D40/60/80s and the Canon Rebel series. It honestly came down to me going into BestBuy and literally just holding each of these in my hand. The Nikons shape/grip were much more comfortable to hold than the Canons. Both Canons and Nikons will get you great pictures, you really can't go wrong.

As for the 3AF points on the D60 yeah its annoying that you only have three but it's really not that big of a deal. The only thing I don't like about my D60 is the fact that it doesn't have Automatic Exposure Bracketing. This just makes it easier to make HDR photos but there are ways of getting around it. Also the D60 doesn't have an internal focus motor so some older lenses won't autofocus but once again, there's ways of getting around it...i believe its called manually focusing

 

Hit up the store to feel if you like the canon or nikon more.

I always liked the xti first cuz i have smaller fingers but i've grown on nikon ergonomics.

I still play with canons love and hate both here and there.

I say get the right feel first then look at specs =P

 

I just read through a few very good camera FAQ's on the AZ site here, and I'm finding I think I will have to bump up my budget from the 400-600 range to the 700-900 range.

I will have to do some price comparison shopping online, but I see Costco has some decent prices (compared to BB and such)....

Out of these 3, which should I be more focused on? I will be doing my own research on the camera's and pricing - but want a good point to start:

Rebel XS, 18-55 + 75-300 lenses for $799 (10.1mp, 7 point AF)
Rebel T1i w/ printer (who cares), 18-55 lens for $799 after $300 mir (15.1mp, 9 point AF)
Rebel XSi, 18-55 lens for $679 (12.2mp, 9 point AF)


After doing some checking, it looks like i can purchase just about any of the above for quite a bit cheaper by just looking around - so expecting that i will be able to find the same discounts across the board, any other recommendations? How does the XSi compare to the T1i or D80?

 

The XSi, the T1i has video, if you want that. But many have problems with getting rebates back from Canon. That 75-300 with the XS, is like a $100 lens and not worth getting, the XSi is the better of the two bodies.

D80, I wouldn't it's Nikon's old tech, the D5000 is a better camera, the D90 a MUCH better camera.

 

I agree with jup

if anything go with the xsi

and d5000

if anything and you plan to get more out of the camera go d90 and t1i
I would say those 2 cameras are pricey but worth it if you plan on going further ahead.

 

+1 on the D60 / D40X, it'll be a solid backup if you decide on moving up the chain.. Starter dSLR's really depend on the the dough.. you really shouldn't be spending a lot of money on a starter though. Stick with a dSLR that can grow with your experience in terms of accessories as suggested (ie. Nikon, Cannon...).

 

I LOVE my canon XSi. The kit lens is kind of generic and I have a long lens to shoot a lot of things and also picked up a 50mm prime for exceptional background blurring shots. I feel I have a great range and the body works great for me. I have smaller hands so i'm not sure if it would feel small for someone with bigger hands but I highly doubt it would affect you. At that price range, I'd say a Nikon or Canon would be equivelent.

 

After some additional research, Im leaning more towards the XSi. I guess I do have question though. Is there a good/bad to which end of the business does the stabilization?

I kind of thought I would want the camera to take care of this for me. Wouldn't that keep the lense costs down? Or does the stabilization work hand in hand with the lense, so it's best to keep them together?


Thanks again and hopefully I haven't asked too many "want to stab myself in the face" questions being a n00b

 

^ debatable.. I say lens.

 

It is debatable, but the two major players Nikon and Canon have it right. Putting it in the lenses. The others are doing it as marketing thing to get you to buy theirs.

With putting the IS in the lens, it is place in the lens where it works best. The IS component is in the lens at different points based on the length of the lens, again where it works best, closest to the subject.

As far as cost goes, Sony has IS in their bodies, but their lenses are about or more expensive than what Nikon or Canon sells.

 

Since you're so quick at answering - I'll throw 1 more question in there. Probaably don't even need to ask this, but I will anyways.

I've read some reviews that say the XSi "AF is slow with the kit lens". Is this slow as the world of DSLR camera's are concerned? I mean - I'm not going to go from a P&S camera to an DSLR and wonder why the POS is slow am I? lol

 

^ I don't have much experience with the XSi other than checking it out at retail stores.. but I think if that were the case it would be relative to some of the competitors.. probably not something that you would notice / care about..

It's definitely going to be faster than your PnS camera..

 

The kit lens is a great lens when you have light, they say it's slow because it's f/stop are smaller like, 4.5 and up. Of course you'll never be able to do everything with just one lens. Getting the lens to start with will be OK, then you see which way you what to go, wider or longer. And then you can also decide if you want faster lenses, meaning F/stops of 2.8 or 4.

And no to your last question.

 

Yea quicker lenses = faster af, it also has to do with the camera af system but im sure the xsi is pretty quick i used to own a xti and I didn't have too much trouble with sports and same when i went with my d80. They did pretty well.

 

So I'm going to bite the bullet tomorrow (or Monday) depending on the feedback I get.

I've pretty much got my heart set on the XSi with the 18-55 IS and the 55 -250 IS lenses for $899.

From what I have read - this is my best option. But I am having second thoughts, and need to run this by you all:

Should I be considering the Rebel T1i with the 18-55 IS lens for $799 (that's with a $300 MIR) that is bundled with a printer?

The reviews that I have seen with the input from you all say that 1) Canon is flaky with their rebates, and 2) the T1i isn't that great of a camera


I guess I would rather get the top of the line starter SLR than the bottom of the line mid-grade if quality is going to lack. I think the XSi has a great lens package for a beginner, and I see no reason that I shouldn't be able to make the camera grow with my needs.

Am I right? If its the XSi - I'll have it tomorrow. If not - I'll have to wait until I get some more cash Monday.

 

I bought my bf the XSi for Christmas, and I've been really impressed. It's a nice upgrade from the XT I used to shoot with, and even has many of the things I was looking for when I bought my 40D.

You can't go wrong with it for a starter camera, imo.

 

That's the combo I purchased last November, although I only paid $779 (special Amazon promotion). I haven't regretting it one bit. It's a great and extremely versatile combo.

BTW, if you're looking for a decent yet relatively inexpensive bag to go with it, the Lowepro Nova 3 (less than $40 shipped) is nearly the perfect size for this combo -- not too big and not too small (more than enough room for another lens or two).

 

Depreciation on the entry level SLRs is huge with all of the new models that come out regularly. Why take the hit if you're going to upgrade eventually?

Take a look at Craigslist for people who bought SLRs and got in over their head. Even if it has had half of its life shot out of it (unlikely) you can still easily squeeze two or three years of service out of it.

 

I'd recommend a Panasonic G1. 4/3 standard, smaller body, great Live View. CameraLabs.com did a great review on it.

 

I actually have done that, and I've found a couple of things to be true. First, doesnt appear people are getting rid of XSi cams - they are getting rid of XS and XTi's. Not that it's a bad thing, but if I'm going to jump in the water - I'm gonna do it whole heartedly.

Also - most of the people that are selling their DSLR's are selling with bags, lenses, filters and such which is putting it out of my price range. This may end up being my loss, but it was enough trouble to scrape together a grand, let alone buy a flat out DSLR package that has been completed by someone else.

I guess I am curious though by your quote. Are you saying that i should be looking at used equipment and let someone else make the initial purchase/loss? Or are you saying why waste my time on an XSi when I could just go out and buy a Mark (which then wouldnt the Mark be outdated in a year as well?)

 

Appreciate the idea - but after looking into it, I don't think it's right for me. It has a point in the article that they don't have to cater to the original SLR crowd when creating the DSLR, but they also mention that since they have such a small market - they could scrap it at any time and not lose anything.

That kind of sums things up right there. Not that I expect my camera to last a life time (well... yes I do) but I would definately want something that is fully supported by multiple platforms in case I do decide to blow my load on lenses. (Plus - I would have the choice to upgrade bodies and still retain my lenses in the future if that's the direction I decide to go as well)

 

Amazon has the Xsi with 18-55IS for $640 right now.

55-250 for $240.

 

to the OP... just so you know... Live View is overrated. If that has anything to do with the decision making. It was kinda a deal breaker for me... (at the time, when I was shopping), but I find myself rarely using it. I DID get a Sony a350... I don't regret it cuz it was such a good deal (used), and to my understanding it's a great camera to learn with... but if I can redo it... I'd go Canon.

 

^seriously? I really like it!

 

Here's my position, and it may be a minority position on here.

This is your starter camera. You may outgrow it fairly quickly (I wonder at this sometimes). The XSi is no doubt an improvement over the XTi, because Canon needs to sell cameras. This doesn't mean that photos taken with the XTi and XS were crap.

If you're comfortable with spending a lot of money, then you could get the latest and greatest toys. If you have an established budget, you might want to consider getting a less expensive camera and getting more accessories. This whole photography thing is a money sink because there are always accessories you will want to get next. Accessories will more or less transfer through the Canon line, so as long as you stick with Canon, the flash you buy tomorrow might still be with you long after you've moved on from the Rebel body.

In the Rebel line, whatever latest body you buy now will be eclipsed in 6 months.

I started getting heavily in to photography right at the beginning of the mainstream digital era (1996-1998). Which means that I started shooting on 35mm film. My film camera had a single AF point (smack in the middle). When I finally transitioned to digital and started doing serious paid work, I used a Canon EOS D60, which had 3 AF points.

Nobody needs all of the stuff they pack onto cameras these days. It could make life easier, but I get the feeling you're dismissing the older models outright.

You mention it was hard scraping $1,000 together. I would suggest you get as much accessories as possible in the beginning. Down the line, the difference between 10 MP (XTi) and 12 MP (XSi) won't even be noticed. But that missing tripod will.

 

Live is great for setting up your shots while using a tripod. Trying to hand hold using Liveview is pretty useless IMO.

On thing about LiveView it's GREAT for camera that don't have 100% viewfinders, when using Liveview it is 100%. It is also great for using shooting macro, you can zoom into your shot and manually set focus better than the camera can itself.

 

yeah, I really don't use it... I thought I would especially coming from P&S... cuz with my Canon SX10 IS, I NEVER once looked through the VF.

yeah, you're right about the setting up thing... especially with the tilting screen... I have done that... but only a couple times.

 

I appreciate all of your responses guys. Really helping me since my purchase is going to be pushed off til maybe the end of the week soonest.

Wack - good points. I guess I'm not trying to downplay the older models, but I'm hoping to gain whatever technological advances I can without spending an arm and a leg.

If you don't mind a little bit of homework (just for kicks) - I am comfortable in spending UNDER a grand this week to get my foot in the door (my other camera is no longer functional, so I'm not in a hurry - but I don't want to think about this for a month either)

I guess with keeping within the grand mark - what would you suggest? I haven't priced much besides the newer stuff, and honestly - when I'm out on sites looking for reviews - I pretty much only find the newer stuff (if there is older stuff, I'm unaware it's an older model I guess as I'm looking at feaures and I think naturally I'm finding more features on the newer stuff... hence the "new" rut that I am in)

I'm a complete newb to this - I'm actually pre-newb I guess. So from my research and pricing (lenses are spendy.. holy crap). Hypothetical - is a guy better off getting an XSi with 2 mediocre lenses for $900, or would buying a used XT ($500?) and a nice lens ($400?) be the better way to go?

I'm completely listening to you all at this point. I've settled on the XSi because I needed to find solid ground to start comparisons. Before I started researching, I was thinking I could walk away with a nice DSLR setup for about $400 to $500 and I've upped my expectations because I was wayyy wrong.

Sorry about these super long posts - I just want to make my expectations clear to everyone, and provide as much detail and explanation as i can without giving 1 sentance answers and having everyone flame me with questions that i have left unanswered

 

You're going to drive yourself crazy trying to figure out what to do. Unless you have double or triple to spend than you do. Forget the XT get the XSI and the kit lens.

It will start you off and get you going, once you know what you want to do, then you can go further.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...X0DER&v=glance

 

Well here's the big let down, I can't tell you what to buy. Based on what I gather from your posts, it sounds like you want to pursue photography to some degree instead of just taking pictures.

I haven't priced anything in a long time, as I am not in the market. I no longer even use Canon anymore. But I do know enough about photography in general to give you some pointers.

Technological stuff is mainly icing on the cake. We are fortunate in that Canon uses the same imaging sensors in their EOS line as they do in their Rebel line. That means that the Rebel XT has the same sensor that the EOS 20D had, and so forth. That means that from an image quality standpoint, the Rebel line is solid.

I'm hesitant to recommend the XT. But I only say this because we all like new things and the XT is dated. The XT will take 100% of the pictures the XTi could take because the XTi didn't add any new imaging features (meaning more ISO, more shutter options, etc). It did add a 10 MP sensor over 8.2, a supersonic CCD cleaner, and 9 AF points.

The CCD cleaning thing alone would be reason to get an XTi over an XT I suppose. The easiest way to put it is if you already had an XT, I would not recommend an upgrade to the XTi. But since you are starting out new, it is worthwhile to consider it.

At this point, the XTi is two generations old, because of the XSi and TLi. However, it has enough of the features that have really become sort of expected at this point that you don't feel like you have a dated camera from the day you got it. But the XT would be perfectly adequate.

So now your question about lenses...

Each lens fills a role, which is why there are so many lenses to choose from. Money spent on good lenses is always a better investment than lenses on a body. This is because lenses pretty much don't become obsolete, whereas bodies do.

Also, the right lens can be the difference between getting a shot and not. For example, assume you are on a boat trying to take a picture of the Statue of Liberty. For whatever reason, your cannot fit the entire statue into your shot because your lens isn't wide enough. You can't back up because you're on a boat. It is impossible for you to take this shot. Any camera body could have taken it, but not having the right lens screwed you out of a certain shot you wanted. So the situation of not having the right lens comes up a lot more than not having the right body.

You need to buy the lens that you think will fit you the best. In another thread, superzooms are being debated. I think superzooms are great. I have one myself and it sits on my camera at least 70% of the time. You have to consider I have 6 other lenses that are all pretty good, but the flexibility of the stabilized 18-200 really shines.

After the stabilized 18-200, the next most used lens I have is something in the 18-50 range. You should also pick up a 50mm 1.8. These lenses sell for around $100 new and will be the best bang for your buck lens you will ever spend.

You're also going to want a good tripod at some point (sooner, rather than later) and a camera bag. If you become more serious about photography, an external flash is a must. These are the basic accessories I would consider must-haves for any serious photographer.

 

You can't go wrong with Jupiter's advice. The XSi is a good camera and definitely will keep a shooter rewarded. There is a good point that you may not know what accessories you want yet.

 

have you thought about getting a nice used canon 30D for cheaper? i went from an xt to a 30D and absolutely love it. i can actually shoot at the highest ISO setting and still show minor grain. not to mention a better built all around.

i do agree w/ the advice on here on going to BB or wherever and holding each camera and play around w/ the settings. you will see for yourself which one feels better for you.

 

slr enthusiasts tend to take care of their stuff. so buying used items on a reputable site like fredmiranda.com or photography-on-the-net.com tends to be low risk. this would let you get into some better gear at a lower price.

 

agreed. POTN is FTW in all aspects of photography. i've bought some used gear from there and it's always top notch.

 

I just tried to check out the FOTN website, and it appears to be a search engine? Am I missing something there?

Nevermind... its not photography-on-the-net.com, its actually photography-on-the.net

 

doh! sorry about that

 

if it weren't saved on my address bar i'd always make the same mistake.

 

speaking of potn, I just saw this post:

FS Canon Rebel XTi plus extras.....
I have a mint Black XTI less than 5000 clicks. ,battery,charger, box, manual,18-55 lens(Non IS) ,50 1.8,55-250 with filter, Red Fast pack 100,4 Gig CF CArd,RC1 Remote control. Everything is in pristine condition. This was hardly used. All original contents included.


I am selling it all as a COMPLETE package. 450.00 includes pp fee and shipping....