How could I have made this picture come out better.

I wanted to have the building exposed better, not the background.

Fill in flash is not going to work in this case. How would you have shot this?

Or is this a case where the lighting is just not right to take that picture?

Thanks

 

The building is about 4 stops underexposed. On an overcast day like that, you'll have to blow out the sky if you want to properly expose the building. Or, if you had a tripod with you, you could take bracketed shots and make an HDR image in Photoshop so both the sky and the building are exposed correctly.

 

Okay, I feel much better now. I didn't have a tripod with me, so taking multiple shots with different exposure was not possible. And I don't think the picture would look good if the building was exposed correctly, while the background was over exposed.

So, I could have done nothing in this situation. Good to hear.

The entire weekend I was in Montreal it was cloudy, and I had to deal with this same situation multiple times.

 

A few other suggestions:
- Try taking a few different exposures in situations like this. Even if you're not going to blend them in photoshop, you'll at least be able to choose how much of the sky you're willing to lose in exchange for foreground lighting.
- If you shoot RAW, you can typically recover an extra stop of highlights and an extra stop of shadows.
- Use the "partial" or "spot" metering modes if you have a scene with a lot of backlighting such as this.
- Keep an eye on your histogram to watch for under/over exposure

I think in this case, you could expose 3 stops higher than where you're at now and still retain a fair amount of cloud detail. You could then extend the dynamic range a little by blending exposures created from the same RAW file.


The last time I was shooting on a dull and overcast day, I used bracketed exposures to add some pop to an otherwise boring scene:


When I get home, I'll post what the same scene looks like with a single exposure.

 

Hey Dan, do you normally use Manual mode or one of the other creative modes like Program, Aperture or Shutter Speed Priority? Just curious.

 

For landscapes or portraits, I'm almost always in aperture priorty unless I'm trying to to something with motion, then I'll use shutter priority or full manual.

Any time I use my flash, my dial is glued to manual mode.

 

I think there was room to expose the whole picture more. Clouds/background are not that bright.

 

 

Sometimes if can't get the shot I want with any of the manual modes and don't have time to fiddle with it, I will try one of the auto modes and sometimes it works out. I dunno, just another suggestion. :P

 

good suggestions guys...just what I wanted in the thread.

 

Thanks. When using full manual how do you meter to see what settings you need to be in to properly expose the subject? From one of the links you gave me for flash photography, they say to always use full manual so that your pictures come out with a consistent look by not having the camera decide the correct shutter speed or aperture for you. I find that I take way to long to find the right exposure for my starting point. Once I find my starting point, it's pretty much good at that point and I shoot away until my light source changes. I do have to take quite a few test shots and constantly looking at the histogram to get my starting point though. By the time I get it right, I get alot of bored subjects waiting. Got any tips?

 

Same shot, added +2 stops in raw editor.





Only if I knew how to make an HDR image using photoshop.

 

The "Merge to HDR" script will only work if you take different exposures, it won't work with a single file that you've processed with different exposure settings. If you want to create an HDRI with a single RAW file, try Photomatix: http://www.hdrsoft.com/

 

ETTL-2 takes most of the guess work out of on-camera flash photography. In manual mode, you just pick a shutter speed and aperture that you're happy with, and ETTL-2 will tell the flash how bright it needs to be to expose properly.

If I'm shooting in a dark environment, I'll just shoot wide open and pick a comfortable shutter speed like 1/60, then let the flash do the rest of the work. At most, I might have to dial in a little flash exposure compensation or raise the ISO to increase the ambient lighting.

 

What's your primary interest in the picture? The sky?

If you have to weigh what parts of the picture you lose detail on, you are generally better off keeping detail in the focus of the picture.

If you are interested in the sky, then why not just drop the exposure down even
more, and you may end up with a nice silhouette picture.

 

Thanks Dan. I was just using the flash photography link as a reference but I wanted to see how to get the right settings for the correct exposure quickly for everyday shooting with or without a flash in full manual mode. I was just trying to see if there was a quicker method, maybe by using the camera's metering system or something. Right now I pretty much guess the shutter speed and aperture, keep shooting and adjusting until I get the right exposure. Sometimes I get it in a couple tries, sometimes in 5-10 tries. It's pretty much a guessing game at this point.

It's all probably just a matter of me practicing more. I do notice my speed getting better. I just wanted to see if you had any tips on getting the right exposure quickly or have starting points for different types of shots. I could just simply put it in aperture/shutter priority and not worry about it, but I get varied results depending on what value my camera determines will get the right exposure. My shots does not have the same consistency as when I shoot manual.

 

That's a nifty little program.

 

My primary interest was the foreground building.

From adding 2 stops to the picture, the exposure is much better, but the background is not very pleasing. I guess I could make the picture look better by using the hdr technique or the software Dan mentioned.

This picture is not very important to me, so I won't bother making it better. But for the future I do know there are ways to expose the foreground and background to your liking.

 

Aperture and shutter priority modes will only use the flash for fill. It will try to expose the scene properly, then fire the flash to give some pop to the subject. Manual and Program modes will let you control the balance between ambient and flash exposure.

All you're doing when you shoot in manual mode is deciding how much of the ambient light to use. You can use the light meter in the viewfinder while you make your adjustments to see how underexposed you're going to be. Then the flash will fire at the appropriate power to expose the subject properly. If the flash is too powerful, dial it down a bit, don't adjust any of your camera settings.

 

I haven't found that this works particularly well, at least not with my 20D/580EX combo. If the idea is that in Av the camera will properly expose the background then use the flash to illuminate the subject (fill flash), then it's been hit and miss for me so far. I get overexposed BG's and spotty lighting on the subject much of the time. That said, I'm positive I need more practice with this flash.

Also, I had custom function 14 set to average as opposed to evaluative, and I read somewhere it works better set to evaluative, so I'll try that and see what happens.

Any comments on that particular C.Fn?

 

Av or Tv mode works as if it didn't know there was a flash attached. It sets the shutter or aperture to the appropriate value to expose the scene as if there wasn't a flash attached. If the scene is mostly dark (i.e. indoors) it will tend to overexpose your shot. The only time I would use a flash in Av/Tv would be for bright outdoor shots where you just need some fill. Even then, I'd rather just use manual.

All I do is set the aperture for the amount of DOF I need and adjust the shutter speed for the ambient lighting. Then the flash does the rest of the work. Indoors, I'll use the slowest shutter speed I can without camera shake. Outdoors, I usually start at f/5.6 and 1/125-1/200 and work from there.

If it's going to be a fill flash situation, I might dial down 1 or 2 stops of FEC. If the flash is the primary source of light, then I'll start a 0 FEC and check my histogram to see if it needs a little more or less power.

Average metering tends to work better for outdoor shots and Evaluative metering better for indoors. I wouldn't say one is better than the other per se, just better in different situations. Try both and see what works best for you.

 

^^
Thanks, Dan, I'll try using manual mode. I guess I thought using flash in Av would take into account the fact that you have a wide dynamic range shot, and thus automatically expose for the BG, then use the flash to light whatever your subject is. I'm disappointed the camera can't read my mind Add that to my wish list for future cameras.

The custom function I referred to is called "ETTL II." I'm not sure if its settings directly affect how the camera itself is metering, or just how it meters with regards to the flash. The default is set to "evaluative." Camera metering is set separately.

The 580 has been a bit tricky to learn. I find the pop-up flash to be more consistent, but obviously far less powerful. Interesting that you dial down the flash for fill situations. That tells me the flash inherently overexposes in these situations.

Thanks for the tips.

 

Thanks Dan. I'm terribly sorry, but I'm talking about how to quickly find the right exposure settings in full manual with or without using a flash. In your case, how do I know what settings to set my camera for the ambient light. You said to use my light meter. How do I go about doing that? Do I have to put my camera in one of the other creative modes and see what readings I get and then put it back to manual? Reading your tips for waTSX, it seems like you have starting points for different senarios using a certain shutter speed and aperture and make adjustments from there. That is what I am doing right now but still I take way too long to find the correct settings. I'm just trying to see if there are other ways to speed me up.

waTSX, I'm using the 430EX flash and I find that I get far more consistency from it than the popup flash. The flash practically does all the work. I do have to play around with it to get the right results but the result is far better than the popup flash. I just normally find the right angle to point the flash and dial down or up the power depending on the result. I use full manual most of the time, though.

 

Your light meter certainly works the same when you're in manual mode. I think there are a couple of important tips for using it, as it can fool you in certain situations.

1) BDE. Learn your basic daylight exposure, and perhaps some of the more important variations, such as overcast skies. If you're looking for a good "jumping off" point from which to make adjustments, having some concept of what it should be will help you.

2) Do some reading about where to meter in particular situations. I don't know if your camera has spot metering (mine doesn't), but it would help in the shot above. Evaluative metering will take the sky and the foreground into account and sometimes be fooled. If your primary concern is foreground, don't be afraid to meter off the ground to set your exposure, then frame your shot and take it. Or move closer to your subject to get the metering, then back up to take the shot. Conversely, if you're looking to get the sky just right, aim your camera at the sky (not the sun) to get your exposure, then re-frame and shoot.

I frequently meter several different locations to compare readings, then decide which makes the most sense.

3) Don't be afraid to shoot several exposures. Use the exposure bracketing function of your camera if you're in a situation with tricky lighting. Most shots require some sort of compromise. If you take multiple exposures, you'll have choices when you get home and get to see them on the monitor. It's my favorite thing about digital - no wasted film!
I hope this is somewhat helpful.

 

^^^
Great tips wndrlst. Thank you. They are indeed helpful as good "jumping off" points is what I'm looking for. I'm gonna go look up basic daylight exposure. I know how to use my light meter in program, Av, and Tv modes but I don't know how to do it in Manual. Could I really meter in full manual mode?

 

To meter in manual mode, all you do is look at the meter in the viewfinder and adjust the shutter speed/aperture/iso until the pointer is in the middle. It will jump around a little since it is continuously metering, and light conditions will fluctuate. Just FYI, there is no exposure compensation in manual mode since you're controlling the aperture and shutter speed.

 

Ahh. Thanks Dan. I did not know that. Now that will definitely help me and it's exactly the answer I've been looking for. I think that will help speed me up tremendously.

 

Great info in this thread. Thanks to all for asking and answering questions before I even have them