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More than 22% of all VW sales in May were TDi - sooner or later the others will get a clue.
It will be interesting to see the TDi % for the Passat. |
Winner
Comparison: 2012 Hyundai Sonata GLS vs. 2012 Toyota Camry LE vs. 2012 Volkswagen Passat SE Family Court, Round 1: Mainstream of Consciousness http://image.motortrend.com/f/389877...front-view.jpg Editor's Note: This is the 1st of 3 comparisons between these cars. Check back next week for a 3-way between the fuel-efficient models and in 2 weeks for a 3-way between the high-octane versions. "Here are the sales numbers for the midsize segment through August," said associate editor Benson Kong as he handed associate editor Nate Martinez and me a sheet of 2011 data while the three of us were downing a quick breakfast in smoky Tehachapi, California, where wildfires had been running rampant for nearly a month. The Toyota Camry, the best-selling car for the last 9 years, sat comfortably in 1st place with sales of almost 205,000 units. "Wow, even in the final year before a new model, the Camry still sells the best," observed Martinez. The Nissan Altima, Ford Fusion, Honda Accord, and Chevy Malibu occupied spots 2 through 5, selling as high as 176,000 and as low as 160,000. At nearly 157,000 sold, the Hyundai Sonata occupied sixth spot, boasting a year-to-date sales bump of almost 22%, the strongest gain among any of the top 6. "Then, as you'll see, the Passat is way down in last," said Kong of Vee-Dub's entry, "with sales of only 1700." But he quickly added: "Although those were all 2010 model-year leftovers." Normally the last-place finisher wouldn't be of any note, but in this case the Passat is different. Absent for 2011, Volkswagen's midsizer is all-new for 2012, bigger and roomier than ever before, and built for the 1st time in America, in a state-of-the-art plant in Chattanooga, Tennessee. VW has invested more than $1 billion in the Volunteer State, and thus has dreams of the Passat 1 day selling in the 300,000-per-year rate, which would help execute the German behemoth's plan to become the largest automaker in the world. VW will have to snatch that title from Toyota, which sold 8.42 million vehicles in 2010 to remain Big Daddy for the third year in a row. To stay on top, Toyota will need some help from its Kentucky-built Camry, which, like Passat, has been redesigned for 2012. Not so coincidentally, both of these fresh players come just one short year after Hyundai released the 6th-gen Sonata -- built in sweet home Alabama, except for the hybrid -- in all its "fluidic sculpture" glory. Let's just say Hyundai has angered its competitors and delighted its dealers. To see which of these bred-in-the-USA "imports" offers the best lineup of midsize magic, we gathered three examples of each -- that's right, nine in all -- and grouped one of every nameplate in the following categories: Mainstream (volume-sellers, gas engine), Fuel Economy (hybrids and diesel), and High Performance (turbo-fours and V-6s). And what about the Altima, Fusion, Accord, and Malibu? Well, all are set to debut next-gen models in 2012-'13, so consider them invited to Round 2. Until then, enjoy these brand-new heavies duking it out in 3 family feuds. Mainstream of Consciousness Our 1st battle consists of the 4-doors you'll see the most of: the standard-issue gas versions that range from well-equipped price leaders to fully optioned-up mobile offices. These high-value, high-mileage, high-volume sedans feature engines displacing no more than 2.5 liters that average 27 mpg and produce just under 200 hp. With base prices that crest just over $20,000, their sales generally account for around 70% of the total mix. For this 3-up, we collected the most popular trims -- Sonata GLS, Camry LE, and Passat SE -- to determine which would prove most popular among us. 3RD PLACE: HYUNDAI SONATA GLS If this test were based solely on value, the $22,305 Sonata GLS would be giddily standing atop the podium. For less money than its 2 competitors, the Hyundai offers heated sideview mirrors (unlike Camry), iPod/USB integration (unlike Passat), and 198 direct-injected horses (more than both) in a swoopy, coupelike body that packs the biggest trunk (16.4 cubic feet). But, alas, picking a winner requires much more than just looking at the bottom line. Despite being the most powerful here, the Sonata proved 0.4 second slower to 60 than the 20-hp-deficient Camry, a probable byproduct of the sluggish, disappointing 6-speed. "Transmission shifts slowly and reacts lethargically, and the manual shift controller, while smooth, has no positive action to it," noted Kong. Further, the GLS put down last-in-test handling numbers -- 0.76 g lateral accel and 28.5-second figure 8 -- that translated directly to the real world. Said Martinez: "I noted body roll for days in the Sonata. Jumping into this from the Passat was a huge step down in road feel and athleticism." Some of the Sonata's lack of road feel is tied to its electric power steering, which felt artificial and too ungainly off-center. A recalibration is in order. Although as wide as the Passat, the Sonata felt noticeably tighter inside, proving the most difficult in which to get comfortably situated from behind the wheel. In our back-seat test, we deemed the Hyundai the hardest to get in and out of (watch your head!) and the least coddling on our backsides. Still, there's much to admire with the Sonata, especially the bargain price and top-notch warranty. But, simply put, there's more to love with the next 2. 2ND PLACE: TOYOTA CAMRY LE The lightest of the group by 70 pounds, the 178-horsepower Camry quickly laid claim to the 0-60 (7.8 seconds) and quarter-mile (15.9 at 89.3 mph) acceleration titles as well as the shortest 60-0 braking distance (120 feet). There's no denying that Toyota's revised 2.5 liter and 6-speed are peppy, smooth, and responsive, and the standard 4-wheel disc brakes robust. We lauded the steering, too, for its direct, linear action, and the ride for its easygoing behavior. "In terms of power, interior space, useability, and fuel economy, the Camry's the best here," said Martinez. So how did it not win? Let's just say the Camry returned some middling scores in a few key areas. 1st, we were unimpressed with its "architectural statement" styling, whose elements lacked cohesion and had an overall look too similar to that of its predecessor. Next, the soft suspension, while great for road trips, was not terribly assuring over the handling loop. "In the tighter sections of our drive, the Camry was not confidence-inspiring," declared Kong. Last, for $23,260 to start, the Toyota omitted such standard niceties as alloy wheels, which were included in our as-tested $22,405 Hyundai as well as a $23,460 Passat S with Appearance Package (our $25,595 SL came with larger 17-inch alloys). We have little doubt this new 4-cylinder LE will continue to be the top-selling Camry, and that the nameplate will maintain its best-seller status. The redone interior, with its faux leather-stitched dash, straightforward controls, Bluetooth/iPod/USB connectivity, and 102.7-cubic-foot passenger volume (0.5 bigger than Passat's) is richer and more accommodating and user-friendly than before. And let's not forget the Camry's 25-mpg city and 34.1-mpg observed stats, both best in test. Still, we'd rather grab the keys for another sedan. 1ST PLACE: VOLKSWAGEN PASSAT SE Given the SE's standard 2.5-liter, 170-horse inline-5-- an engine we've never been especially fond of -- we really thought the Passat stood a better chance of winning the lottery than this test. But that's exactly why we drive cars back to back and put them through our demanding battery of tests. Speaking of which, our 1st task was strapping the GPS test gear into the Passat, which delivered the slowest straight-line numbers: 0-60 in 9.0 seconds and the quarter mile in 16.8 at 83.8 mph -- not exactly surprising in light of a group-high weight-to-power ratio of 19.2 lb/hp. That said, the I-5 is smooth, quieter than the I-4, and seems at home in the 3271-pound SE. We got nearly 32 mpg observed from the I-5 over 3 hard-charging drive loops. The Passat may have been slower in a straight line, but it spanked the others when the road went all curvy. Not only did the SE put down the best lateral acceleration (0.83 g) and figure eight (27.8 seconds at 0.60 g), it also felt the sportiest and most planted through twisty back roads. "Stereotypically German, the Passat handled the best, cornered more flatly, and felt most at home in the twisties," observed Kong. "Solid foundations and a taut ride without being punishing -- absolutely lovely." Indeed, the Passat returned the most satisfying steering feel and demonstrated the most sophisticated suspension of the threesome, 2 traits that make it the best driver's car here. Then there's the VW's clean, chiseled body that, yes, looks a bit like an oversized Jetta; but a case also can be made that it resembles a downsized Audi A8. Moreover, the Passat's cabin isn't especially flashy or terribly luxurious, but it's handsome, easily familiar, and downright cavernous: Its 39.1 inches of rear legroom betters the A8's 38.7. But where's the iPod/USB integration? Perhaps in the next few years VW will remedy that small oversight, and maybe even install a more inspiring engine. Until then, the Passat SE will just have to live with being almost perfect. |
too bad 1st and 2nd places' designs are sooooo meh'. The Sonata was cool, but after the Kia Optima came out, the Sonata is meh' too.
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When test after comparison test show the Hyundai failing miserably to meet it's EPA estimates, you have to wonder if Hyundai is fudging the numbers.
The HP rating seems suspect also. The heavier, less hp Camry really trounced the Snota in both acceleration, and observed mileage. Even the Passat did well in the mileage. |
Originally Posted by Invisible
(Post 13309283)
The HP rating seems suspect also. The heavier, less hp Camry really trounced the Snota in.... acceleration
Despite being the most powerful here, the Sonata proved 0.4 second slower to 60 than the 20-hp-deficient Camry, a probable byproduct of the sluggish, disappointing 6-speed. "Transmission shifts slowly and reacts lethargically, and the manual shift controller, while smooth, has no positive action to it," noted Kong. |
How many shifts between 0-60, and how horrific must the Hyundai transmission be? I wonder if the Sonata's piece of crap transmission is also to blame for the poor observed mileage in every comparison test?
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^
Hyundai :hater: Trannys are a major factor in mileage figures. :whyme: |
Just put him on an ignore list.
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i drove the passat at the OC auto show, I kinda liked it.
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and where is the optima in these tests? I never see it. I wanna know how the passat compares to the optima. Its beat everything else so far, I think.
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Originally Posted by pttl
(Post 13309687)
^
Hyundai :hater: Trannys are a major factor in mileage figures. :whyme: |
Originally Posted by speedemon90
(Post 13309946)
and where is the optima in these tests? I never see it. I wanna know how the passat compares to the optima. Its beat everything else so far, I think.
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It's not just the transmission it's the DBW programming too.
If the accelerator response is drastically programmed towards economy then I can see how it would produce these results. |
Volkswagen Exclusive Passat Variant in Germany:
http://www.automobilesreview.com/upl...lusive-644.jpg North American marketing SUCKS. |
Euro Passat > NA Passat.
Fat Americans are to blame. |
Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
(Post 13312138)
Euro Passat > NA Passat.
Fat Americans are to blame. I think VW/Audi of America should just fire everyone in management in Herndon and start over with people that aren't complete morons. |
Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
(Post 13312138)
Euro Passat > NA Passat.
Fat cheap Americans are to blame. |
Originally Posted by charliemike
(Post 13312345)
I think stupidity and poor taste > girth when it comes to these decisions. I cannot recall the last time one of the NA management arms of a European manufacturer actually added any kind of value.
I think VW/Audi of America should just fire everyone in management in Herndon and start over with people that aren't complete morons. However I wish they would send over more Euro product :cough: Scirocco :cough: |
Scirocco R.. I would buy it right away.
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they'll never do that. Maybe once they start selling 800,000 cars a year we may get more limited edition models.
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^^ We do get the GTI R....but everyone wants the Scirocco.
|
Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
(Post 13312138)
Euro Passat > NA Passat.
Fat Americans are to blame. |
I don't know how I feel about this passat, I think it looks too much like a jetta or something. I think that the last nice looking passat was B5.5. And r36 wagon off course.
|
Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
(Post 13313522)
^^ We do get the GTI R....but everyone wants the Scirocco.
Then theres the fact that no one puts their money where their mouth is. |
Originally Posted by speedemon90
(Post 13313725)
if VW brought both the scirocco and GTI here along with their R models, msrp for those cars would shoot up.
Then theres the fact that no one puts their money where their mouth is. |
Originally Posted by dom
(Post 13313633)
The euro Passat it just too expensive on this side of the pond. It was always in an awkward position. More expensive than a Camcord but not good enough to compete with the luxury competition. Can't blame fat American's for seeing better value out there on either end of the spectrum. VW did the right thing moving it downmarket.
...the simple fact is that the Euro Passat > NA Passat. |
what's so great about the Euro Passat?
|
Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
(Post 13313966)
...the simple fact is that the Euro Passat > NA Passat.
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Edmunds have done comparision test. The worst fuel economy of Accord is 2mpg better than Passat and Accord frontal look more aggressive.
for the same price Accord give navigation system. and more quieter ride. Passat has more perofrmance advantage due 6AT/DI engine. http://media.il.edmunds-media.com/vo...825118_717.jpg |
^
Your English has gotten worse. |
Originally Posted by pttl
(Post 13317018)
^
Your Engrish has gotten worse.
Originally Posted by pttl
(Post 13317018)
^
Your fanboyism has gotten worse. The theory of SSFTSX being an ASIMO-like Honda robot is out the window. I have confidence that Honda can at least program a propaganda-bot to speak proper English. Also, no link, no care. As if anyone cared in the first place, lulz |
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
(Post 13316590)
Edmunds have done comparision test. The worst fuel economy of Accord is 2mpg better than Passat and Accord frontal look more aggressive.
for the same price Accord give navigation system. and more quieter ride. Passat has more perofrmance advantage due 6AT/DI engine. http://media.il.edmunds-media.com/vo...825118_717.jpg I don't give a RAT'S RED ASS about Honda. :annoyed: |
Since he mentioned the DI engine I presume they tested the Passat with the 2.0T. Sure its not as fuel efficient but it also has ~ 10 more HP and 40 more lb-ft.
A fair trade-off IMO. |
Invisible + SSFTSX
Honda GOD + Honda GOD We are so screwed. |
Originally Posted by dom
(Post 13318906)
Since he mentioned the DI engine I presume they tested the Passat with the 2.0T. Sure its not as fuel efficient but it also has ~ 10 more HP and 40 more lb-ft.
A fair trade-off IMO. |
Originally Posted by dom
(Post 13318906)
Since he mentioned the DI engine I presume they tested the Passat with the 2.0T. Sure its not as fuel efficient but it also has ~ 10 more HP and 40 more lb-ft.
A fair trade-off IMO. They have the 2.5 i4? The diesel, and their V6 engine. |
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
(Post 13316590)
Edmunds have done comparision test. The worst fuel economy of Accord is 2mpg better than Passat and Accord frontal look more aggressive.
for the same price Accord give navigation system. and more quieter ride. Passat has more perofrmance advantage due 6AT/DI engine. http://media.il.edmunds-media.com/vo...825118_717.jpg A large portion of the price disparity between these two sedans comes down to the Passat's superior versions of similar features. Its 18-inch alloy wheels and genuine wood trim surpass the Accord's 17-inch alloys and poorly rendered simulated wood trim. The relatively ancient five-speed automatic in the Honda is no match for the sophisticated six-speed automated manual in the VW. Not only is the Passat's DSG transmission smoother and more intelligent about gearchanges up and down, it also provides Manual and Sport modes the Accord does not have, plus the VW has shift buttons on the steering wheel. The Passat's hard-drive-based navigation system (versus Accord's DVD) features far superior graphics and an intuitive touchscreen interface, plus extra disc space allotted for music storage. Even the sound quality (and two more speakers) of the VW/Fender system is superior and it better integrates/interfaces iPod use. From the outside, neither car is styled as aggressively as Hyundai's Sonata or Mazda's 6. Even though styling doesn't seem to count for much in this segment, it's a shame Volkswagen didn't instill a little more CC sedan into the 2012 Volkswagen Passat's styling. The Accord is less boring than a Camry but isn't really going to turn any heads. |
Originally Posted by speedemon90
(Post 13320038)
Passat isnt offered with that engine choice.
They have the 2.5 i5 The diesel, and their V6 engine. |
Originally Posted by speedemon90
(Post 13320038)
Passat isnt offered with that engine choice.
They have the 2.5 i4? The diesel, and their V6 engine. And the Accord was still 2MPG better than a diesel Passat??? We need a link. |
Originally Posted by dom
(Post 13318906)
Since he mentioned the DI engine I presume they tested the Passat with the 2.0T. Sure its not as fuel efficient but it also has ~ 10 more HP and 40 more lb-ft.
A fair trade-off IMO. |
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