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Old 07-18-2005, 11:11 AM
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Toyota Rethinks Hybrid Strategy

Toyota Rethinks Hybrid Strategy - - It's "more than just mileage," execs say. - - by Paul A. Eisenstein - - Source: The Car Connection

For Toyota, it's a question of whether the tank is half-empty or half-full. The automaker is the unquestionable leader in the fast-growing U.S. hybrid-electric vehicle market. But HEVs are coming under increasing criticism for failing to deliver the sort of mileage manufacturers like Toyota are promising.



The Japanese automaker's Prius has become the world's best-selling hybrid, while the U.S. has become Toyota's biggest market for the gas-electric midsize sedan, accounting for about 60 percent of worldwide Prius sales. With additional hybrids coming into production, such as the recently launched Lexus RX400h, Toyota is looking to sell one million hybrids annually by 2010, according to Don Esmond, senior vice president of automotive operations for Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc., and "if you put a pencil to that, (the U.S.) would be doing 600,000."



The question is what it will take to get there. While the recent run-up in U.S. fuel prices has made the economic equation for hybrids increasingly attractive, that may not be enough to nurture a truly mass market. And in the coming years, Toyota and its Lexus luxury arm are likely to shift focus to expand the appeal of HEVs, according to senior company officials.



After a slow and uncertain start, many analysts have come to agree that hybrids are gaining momentum, aided in part by the run-up in U.S. fuel prices. But other observers remain skeptical.



"We see the general desire for these types of vehicles growing," said Jeff Martini, vice president of the Polk Center for Automotive Studies. "However, the compelling argument to actually buy one has to be made more strongly," he added.



Critics contend that the cost of hybrid hardware - generally adding $4000 to $9000 to the price of a comparable gasoline-only vehicle - is difficult to offset through increased mileage, even with $2.50-a-gallon gasoline. "When you just use the argument of fuel efficiency, the purchase of a hybrid car is not justified," acknowledged Kazuo Okamoto, the new head of R&D for Toyota Motor Co., in a recent interview with London's Financial Times.



The equation is only more off-balance when real-world, rather than promised, mileage is taken into account. While Toyota claims Prius gets close to 60 miles per gallon, consumers report it more typically delivers around 40 mpg. Esmond admitted there is a notable fuel economy gap, but insisted it is the result of government tests automakers rely on, rather than any attempt by Toyota to mislead its customers.



And indeed, other hybrid manufacturers, such as Honda, concede similar discrepancies. But none of the HEV makers is willing to provide a more realistic figure, said Honda planning director Dan Bonawitz, because the higher numbers are "a competitive advantage."



Perhaps, but the growing chorus of complaints could sour current and potential owners, some analysts warn. And as a result, manufacturers are looking at other ways to boost the appeal of hybrids. Honda, for example, has been emphasizing the higher performance of its Accord Hybrid, which launches from 0-60 a full half-second faster than the conventional V-6 Accord.



Lexus is also promoting the performance of its RX400h, and the luxury unit's next hybrid could usher in an entirely new line of high-performance HEVs, said the Toyota division's new general manager, Bob Carter. A final decision has not yet been made, but Lexus engineers are developing a distinctly different version of the Toyota Synergy Drive used in the Prius.



Next year's GS450h is expected to feel more like a conventional sports sedan, with a mix of software and hardware changes meant to replicate the feel of a conventional sedan going through rapid gear changes.



"You may see Toyota and Lexus going in two very different directions," Carter told TheCarConnection.com during an interview in California.



But even the Toyota division will put more of an emphasis on performance, added Esmond, during the same interview. It will put more emphasis on the other advantages of hybrid technology, such as the significant reduction in emissions, including the greenhouse gas, CO2.



While hybrids are taking some heat right now, analyst Jim Hall, of AutoPacific, Inc., doesn't foresee a serious backlash over mileage. There are "plenty of other reasons" why they'll continue to gain ground in the U.S. market, he said. In some states, hybrid owners gain access to carpool lanes, even while driving alone. Several cities now let HEVs park without paying at meters. And then there's what Hall calls "the cool factor."



For some Prius buyers, the biggest plus is the positive feedback they get driving their distinctive vehicles down the street. Ironically, Lexus seemed to miss that point with the RX400h. The most common complaint, said Esmond, is not mileage, but the fact that the gas-electric SUV is almost indistinguishable from a conventional RX330. "They want us to badge this thing so people know they are driving a hybrid," said Esmond. (Honda officials admit they've had similar complaints about their Accord and Civic hybrids.)



Toyota is in the midst of a major internal debate over whether it should produce more hybrid-only models, such as Prius, or continue offering hybrid options for its mainstream models. Whatever the ultimate decision, future Toyota and Lexus HEVs will be much more distinctive, Esmond promised.
Old 07-18-2005, 11:13 AM
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While Toyota claims Prius gets close to 60 miles per gallon, consumers report it more typically delivers around 40 mpg.
But that's the case with ALL vehicles! I fail to see the problem here which is unique to Toyota Hybrids. If you drive it like the test is done then it will give 60 mpg. But no one drives like that.
Old 07-18-2005, 11:17 AM
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Toyota is in the midst of a major internal debate over whether it should produce more hybrid-only models, such as Prius, or continue offering hybrid options for its mainstream models. Whatever the ultimate decision, future Toyota and Lexus HEVs will be much more distinctive, Esmond promised.
My opinion is that Toyota should continue adding hybrid versions of mainstream vehicles and emphasize fuel economy and Lexus should do the same emphasizing performance (mostly straighline/GT-like performance).
Old 07-18-2005, 11:27 AM
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Finally the industry is catching on that fuel savings alone can't justify the cost of a hybrid. The hybrid Accord is pretty well the only hybrid that has actually interested me because it offers more than just good fuel economy. Still, I don't think I'll be buying one anytime soon. The reliability is still unproven to me and the systems are still too big and heavy.

If they could make a system that weighs less than 200lbs, costs no more than $2K, and has a 10 year warranty I'd be interested.
Old 07-18-2005, 11:38 AM
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Eventuall they will get lighter but for significant gains, it will take a while. 10 years from now it will make a lot more sense for performance vehicles.
Old 07-18-2005, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
Eventuall they will get lighter but for significant gains, it will take a while. 10 years from now it will make a lot more sense for performance vehicles.
It's sort of a chicken and egg scenario: They need to sell them now to justify the R&D on future models, but they suck now so I don't want to buy one.
Old 07-18-2005, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
Finally the industry is catching on that fuel savings alone can't justify the cost of a hybrid. The hybrid Accord is pretty well the only hybrid that has actually interested me because it offers more than just good fuel economy.
See that's the thing.. in the case of the Accord, I don't see what the big deal is. The Accord 4 cylinder is a quick car.... so I'd rather load it up (over the V6), save over $10k, and get gas mileage that's close to the Hybrid. If the Hybrid was under $30k loaded and got about 5-10 more MPG on both sides (city and highway), then maybe I'd give it a look.....

Accord Hybrid
MSRP: $30,655 - $32,655
City 29 mpg / Highway 37 mpg

LX V-6
MSRP: $24,465
City 21 mpg / Highway 30 mpg

LX 4 cylinder
MSRP: $20,290 - $21,090
City 24 mpg / Highway 34 mpg
Old 07-18-2005, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by juniorbean
See that's the thing.. in the case of the Accord, I don't see what the big deal is. The Accord 4 cylinder is a quick car.... so I'd rather load it up (over the V6), save over $10k, and get gas mileage that's close to the Hybrid. If the Hybrid was under $30k loaded and got about 5-10 more MPG on both sides (city and highway), then maybe I'd give it a look.....

Accord Hybrid
MSRP: $30,655 - $32,655
City 29 mpg / Highway 37 mpg

LX V-6
MSRP: $24,465
City 21 mpg / Highway 30 mpg

LX 4 cylinder
MSRP: $20,290 - $21,090
City 24 mpg / Highway 34 mpg
The selling point of the hybrid is that it's the fastest accord in the lineup and it gets the best mileage. Mileage itself is not the reason to buy as there are more economical solutions available.
Old 07-18-2005, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
The selling point of the hybrid is that it's the fastest accord in the lineup and it gets the best mileage. Mileage itself is not the reason to buy as there are more economical solutions available.
That is true.... but, if I was even considering a hybrid such as this, I'd be buying it for the MPG and not the performance.... so the much higher price tag still wouldn't appeal to me... I'd go with the 4 banger and save money all around.....
Old 07-18-2005, 02:55 PM
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Then you sir would not be the ideal customer for this car.

BTW, I still wouldn't buy the Accord either.
Old 09-23-2005, 05:58 PM
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Toyota goes to court over hybrid design claim

September 23, 2005

Originally Posted by CanadianDriver
http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/050923-9.htm

Düsseldorf, Germany - The Green Car Congress reports that Anglo-Dutch transmission developer Antonov, having failed to negotiate a settlement on a lawsuit first filed in April 2005, is seeking remedy against Toyota in court. The company claims that Toyota illegally copied Antonov's driveline design for its Prius and RX 400h hybrids.

The case was heard at the Düsseldorf patent court yesterday. Antonov chief executive John Moore said he hoped for a ruling no later that early next summer. He also said he hoped negotiations would continue alongside the legal action. Toyota has filed a countersuit in Munich challenging the validity of the Antonov patent, originally published in 1991, for a continuously variable transmission that reacts to engine power and resistant load. The case is being heard in Germany, due to the system's relatively rapid and cost-effective route to a legally binding decision.
Old 09-23-2005, 07:45 PM
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whats up with all this bitching lately?
Old 09-23-2005, 08:08 PM
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Lawyers having a field day.
Old 09-23-2005, 10:31 PM
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Be very interesting if Antonov won.
Old 09-24-2005, 07:55 AM
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Because Toyota is in everyones crosshairs now....success breeds contempt
Old 09-24-2005, 07:39 PM
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I'm not so sure Toyota has the best technology, its technology that USA consumers think that is best however which is most likely a point of interest for a lot of companies.
Old 09-26-2005, 04:09 PM
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Toyota has filed a countersuit in Munich challenging the validity of the Antonov patent, originally published in 1991, for a continuously variable transmission that reacts to engine power and resistant load.
Of course until more details are revealed we'll know the full story, but just from that alone it sounds like another case of the big guy stealing from the little guy and thinking he could get away with it.
Old 09-26-2005, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by heyitsme
Be very interesting if Antonov won.
Toyota would loose a ton of credibility.
Old 01-13-2006, 12:59 PM
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Toyota Under Fire for Hybrid Technology - Patent Infringement

http://www.autoserviceworld.com/issu...issue=01112006

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/5,067,932

Toyota Under Fire for Hybrid Technology

A technology company is taking aim at Toyota, saying that the company's gas-electric hybrid Prius and Highlander vehicles infringe on its U.S. patents.
Solomon Technologies, Inc. announced today that it has expanded its litigation against Toyota by filing a complaint with the United States International Trade Commission (ITC) in Washington D.C. This action is in addition to the action already filed in the United States District Court for the Middle District of Florida last September.
The ITC acts as an administrative investigative body to determine, among other things, whether or not goods imported into the United States infringe U.S. patents.
Solomon president Peter W. DeVecchis, Jr., said, "The filing of the ITC complaint is the next step in our effort to fully prosecute the alleged infringement by Toyota and to protect our valuable intellectual property. We believe that the ITC's streamlined administrative process, as well as the technical depth of the ITC staff, will be helpful in expediting and supporting our claims." He continued, "While the ITC can not assess damages against an infringer, it can issue an exclusion order prohibiting the importation of infringing technology. We will continue our effort to protect our intellectual property to the fullest extent possible."
Solomon brought suit against Toyota Motor Corporation, Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc. and Toyota Motor Manufacturing North America in the United States District Court for the Middle District of Florida, Tampa Division, on September 12, 2005, claiming infringement of a number of claims in Solomon's U.S. Patent Number 5,067,932, primarily relating to Toyota's use of the technology in its Prius and Highlander Hybrid vehicles.
If Solomon were successful in its ITC action, Toyota could be prohibited from importing into the United States infringing combination motor and transmission systems and those products containing such systems, including the Toyota Prius and Highlander models.
Old 01-13-2006, 01:03 PM
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don't they check for stuff like this before manufacturing?
Old 01-13-2006, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by sipark
don't they check for stuff like this before manufacturing?
Yes, they hire a team of to do it though so they don't raise any suspicions.
Old 01-13-2006, 01:08 PM
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Good. Maybe this will force them to ditch Hybrid technology and go with fuel cell.
Old 01-13-2006, 01:11 PM
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I've never been a fan of the Prius anyways. Besides, nearly every Prius driver I've come across here in So Cal doesn't know how to drive and has either cut me off at some point or another, or tries to drive it like it's a camaro or something.

Stupid douche bags, you bought a car that is suppose to save gas, don't go driving like a maniac and shyt otherwise what was the point of buying the car!
Old 01-13-2006, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by sipark
don't they check for stuff like this before manufacturing?
They're supposed to have done the due diligence beforehand.

Originally Posted by slyraskal
Stupid douche bags, you bought a car that is suppose to save gas, don't go driving like a maniac and shyt otherwise what was the point of buying the car!
Princeton, NJ is the tree hug...er...Toyota Prius capital of NJ and to be honest, I think they drive pretty 'conservatively' (pun?).
Old 01-13-2006, 02:02 PM
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oops!
Old 01-13-2006, 02:07 PM
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Very interesting. Let's see if Microsoft...er...I mean Toyota, will win this one.
Old 01-13-2006, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by F23A4
Princeton, NJ is the tree hug...er...Toyota Prius capital of NJ and to be honest, I think they drive pretty 'conservatively' (pun?).
Well they must be a lot smarter then the owners here in cali. Most of them that i've come across have poor driving skills.
Old 01-13-2006, 02:52 PM
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This isn't the first case of it either....
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=TOYOTA+HYBRID
Old 01-13-2006, 02:58 PM
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Solomon claims that Toyota has infringed its patents. But it is up the patent office experts and High Court to determine the patents' validity. Depending on how the Judges and experts (and the greedy lawyers) want to interpret the relevance of the patents, the accusation may not even hold up in courts.

Take a look at the RIM (Blackberry) vs NTP case right now. Initially the lower court rules that RIM has violated NTP's patents, and RIM repeals. Last week, the patent office begins to throw out the NTP patents one by one. The final verdict will be delivered by the end of the month. For patent imfringement cases, the lawyers are always the winner no matter what the outcome will be.
Old 01-13-2006, 04:15 PM
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:ibthisisthrownoutofcourt:
Old 01-15-2006, 10:12 AM
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um...anybody can file an infrangement case, me you or whoever.

everything needs to be proven in court a process that will take many years assuming there is even a miniscule amount of truth to the allegations. IMO just another company trying to extrot a large corporation to make them go away.
Old 01-15-2006, 11:02 PM
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This looks like another one of those "technology" companies that are nothing but shells, all they do is buy up patents and then look for big fish to extort money from, they don't actually invent anything. It's abuse of the patents system IMO.
Old 01-16-2006, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Belzebutt
This looks like another one of those "technology" companies that are nothing but shells, all they do is buy up patents and then look for big fish to extort money from, they don't actually invent anything. It's abuse of the patents system IMO.


I think patent holding companies should be banned. They hinder the advancement of technology or our "way of life" because other manufacturers that may want to do something with it can't because some other company holds the patent for it and they may not have the cash to dish out to either license the use of that patent or pay the royalties that the company would request.

Patent Holding Companies should be banned!
Old 01-16-2006, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Belzebutt
This looks like another one of those "technology" companies that are nothing but shells, all they do is buy up patents and then look for big fish to extort money from, they don't actually invent anything. It's abuse of the patents system IMO.
http://www.solomontechnologies.com/S...out%20STI.html

http://www.solomontechnologies.com/S...ues_Toyota.htm

Last edited by zeroday; 01-16-2006 at 01:38 AM.
Old 06-11-2006, 01:07 PM
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Look out F150
Toyota Stands Ready To Expand Texas Plant

By NORIHIKO SHIROUZU
June 8, 2006 11:01 p.m.

DETROIT -- Toyota Motor Corp. doesn't have the green light to expand its full-size pickup truck plant in Texas, but if demand keeps up, the company stands ready to add a second assembly line, according to a senior American company executive.

Gary Convis, a Toyota managing officer and a Toyota North American manufacturing chief, said that the Japanese auto maker does not have "any defined plans" to add an additional assembly line at its pickup truck plant in San Antonio. The plant is slated to begin production later this year of a new generation of the Toyota Tundra pickup truck.

Still, "just like we did in Kentucky and just like we did in Indiana, we planned ahead so that if demand is there…, we can fairly quickly add that additional site," Mr. Convis said in a recent interview with a group of reporters.

"We already have infrastructure and the leadership team and logistics and so on" to execute such an expansion if that is deemed necessary, he added.

When Toyota's San Antonio plant hits its full capacity of 200,000 vehicles a year, Toyota will be able to produce more than 300,000 Tundras a year in the U.S., counting capacity at an existing factory producing Tundras in Princeton, Ind.

It's not clear what product Toyota might decide to build in San Antonio in addition to the redesigned Tundra truck, but company executives have said in the past they were considering a beefier version of the Tundra to compete with trucks like Ford Motor Co.'s F-250 pickups.

Write to Norihiko Shirouzu at norihiko.shirouzu@wsj.com1
URL for this article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB114982145417875865.html
Old 06-11-2006, 02:10 PM
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Toyota can do it. There's nothing special about the Ford F-150 that Toyota can't handle eventually.
Old 06-11-2006, 07:55 PM
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My dad has an 03 tundra limited with wheels, tires, suspension, exhaust and other things done to it and i love the truck......to me personally it's alot better then an F-150 and i would like to see toyota come up with something that will compete against the F-250. i drove an 03 Tundra with the TRD supercharger on it and headers and it screamed, fun truck to drive.
Old 06-11-2006, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by M TYPE X
Toyota can do it. There's nothing special about the Ford F-150 that Toyota can't handle eventually.
If Toyota pulls it off it will be the death of Ford. Ford makes big money on trucks and cannot afford to lose this segment to the imports.
Old 11-10-2006, 03:26 PM
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Solomon Sues Toyota-Stolen Hybrid Technology

Solomon Completes Infringement Case Against Toyota



Solomon Completes Infringement Case Against Toyota
TARPON SPRINGS, Fla., Nov. 6, 2006 (PRIMEZONE) -- Solomon Technologies, Inc. (OTCBB:SOLM) announced today that it has completed the trial portion of its patent infringement case against Toyota Motor Corporation (NYSE:TM) and certain of its affiliates for infringement of Solomon's Electric Wheel(tm) technology patent. Solomon has alleged that the Hybrid Synergy Drive(r) system installed in vehicles manufactured and imported by Toyota, such as the Prius, Highlander Hybrid, Camry Hybrid and the Lexus RX400h, infringe Solomon's U.S. Patent No. 5,067,932.

Solomon President Peter W. DeVecchis, Jr. said, "Solomon and its litigation team have completed the trial portion of its infringement action before the International Trade Commission in Washington, DC. Although litigation has never been our first choice to protect our intellectual property rights, I believe we presented a very strong case to the Administrative Law Judge and remain very confident in our position. There will be considerable post trial submissions in the form of written legal briefs and possibly follow-on questions from the court."

He continued, "With this portion of the effort nearly behind us, we will be intensifying our focus on expanding the licensing efforts of our patented technology as recently evidenced by our license with Hobie Cat, continuing the integration of the newly acquired Technipower business and targeting other acquisition opportunities. In addition, we expect shortly to announce results for the third quarter of 2006."

As previously announced, Mintz, Levin, Cohn, Ferris, Glovsky and Popeo, P.C. represents Solomon in its pending action against Toyota. Solomon brought suit against Toyota Motor Corporation, Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc. and Toyota Motor Manufacturing North America in the United States District Court for the Middle District of Florida, Tampa Division, on September 12, 2005, claiming infringement of Solomon's U.S. Patent Number 5,067,932, primarily relating to Toyota's use of the Hybrid Synergy Drive technology in its Prius and Highlander Hybrid vehicles. On January 11, 2006, Solomon filed an additional complaint against Toyota with the ITC seeking to exclude importation of the infringing technology. The action against Toyota and its affiliates in the United States District Court for the Middle District of Florida, Tampa Division, has been stayed pending resolution of the ITC action.

The ITC Administrative Law Judge is expected to issue his initial determination on or before January 18, 2007. If Solomon is successful in its ITC action, Toyota could be prohibited from importing into the United States any vehicle that utilizes the infringing combination motor and transmission systems including the Prius and Highlander models, the Camry Hybrid, the prodigy of the best selling mid-size car in the U.S. market, and the Lexus RX400h.

Information about Solomon Technologies, Inc.:

Solomon Technologies, Inc. develops, licenses, manufactures and sells electric power drive systems, including those incorporating hybrid and regenerative technologies incorporating Solomon's patented Electric Wheel(tm) and Electric Transaxle(tm), for marine, commercial, automotive, hybrid and all electric vehicle applications.

Forward Looking Statements: This press release contains forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. The statements regarding Solomon Technologies, Inc. in this release that are not historical in nature, particularly those that utilize the terminology such as "may," "will," "should," "likely," "expects," "anticipates," "estimates," "believes," or "plans," or comparable terminology, are forward-looking statements based on current expectations about future events, which management has derived from the information currently available to it. It is possible that the assumptions made by management for purposes of such statements may not materialize. Actual results may differ materially from those projected or implied in any forward-looking statements. Important factors known to management that could cause forward-looking statements to turn out to be incorrect are identified and discussed from time to time in the company's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. The forward-looking statements contained in this release speak only as of the date hereof, and the company undertakes no obligation to correct or update any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise.



CONTACT: Solomon Technologies, Inc.
Peter DeVecchis
727-934-8778
www.solomontechnologies.com

Crescent Communications
David Long
203-226-5527
www.crescentir.com
Provider ID: 00108168 -0- Nov/06/2006 14:53 GMT

Last Updated: November 6, 2006 09:53 EST


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a091enDg1BSM
Old 03-13-2007, 12:01 PM
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Top Gear reviews the truck... at article...

Five things I learnt this weekend in a Toyota Hilux in central London:

1. The phrase 'between a rock and a hard place' takes on a whole new significance when impossibly wedged in an underground car park between a Ferrari 360 Modena and 911 Turbo.

2. Drive a giant pick-up with tinted windows and fellow drivers will always let you out at junctions. They will assume you're a gap-toothed redneck with a pickaxe on the back seat.

3. There is great satisfaction to be gained in fitting five peoples' monthly shopping onto an open load deck. There is less satisfaction in watching an opportunistic thief stealing said shopping at the red lights.

4. Don't forget to turn the diff off when parking unless you want to draw a crowd of bemused bystanders as the wheels skit in every direction.

5. Hate mail from south London residents concerning the legality of parking pick-up trucks on the side of the road can be frightening.

OK, it was a chastening experience, but in a mildly masochistic way I enjoyed driving the new dual-cab Hilux. Granted, it's not the ideal city runaround: attempting to parallel park on a side street is like trying to surreptitiously moor the QE2 in a duck pond. But for a pick-up truck it's surprisingly easy-going and refined.

Given its gargantuan wheelbase, the Hilux is gentle enough to drive. The low-revving, torquey 3.0-litre diesel engine is even reasonably economical - I managed to get over 30mpg around town even with the auto 'box.

Admittedly the ride is a touch crashy and you'll struggle to see off a horse and cart from the lights, but the top-specced Invincible model comes with a brilliant satnav and it still feels as indestructible as ever.

And a brand new dual-cab costs less than 15 grand. That's a lot of metal for the money.

The Hilux will never top a Smart ForTwo for urban practicality, but only an idiot would ever buy one for use in central London. The same sort of idiot, in fact, that manages to get wedged in an underground car park. For an entire afternoon.


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