Tesla: Sales, Marketing, and Financial News

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 04-27-2023, 02:54 PM
  #3561  
Ex-OEM King
 
SamDoe1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesnowta
Posts: 15,946
Received 5,876 Likes on 3,881 Posts
Originally Posted by civicdrivr
#thecompetitioniscominghere
The following users liked this post:
civicdrivr (04-28-2023)
Old 04-27-2023, 04:41 PM
  #3562  
My first Avatar....
 
pttl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 24,044
Received 5,884 Likes on 3,784 Posts


Old 04-28-2023, 08:15 AM
  #3563  
Race Director
 
biker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 14,316
Received 624 Likes on 503 Posts
Comfy may not want to hear the underlying message in this:

Hertz appeared as the biggest Tesla customer in October 2021 when it announced plans to buy 100,000 EVs from the market leader. Two and a half years later, Hertz's love affair with electric vehicles appears to wane, with very few electric cars added to its fleet in the first quarter.

Hertz boasted about transitioning its massive car rental fleet to electric vehicles, with plans to buy 100,000 Teslas by the end of 2022. The rental juggernaut also signaled an intention to purchase EVs from GM (175,000 cars) and Polestar (65,000 units), totaling 340,000 EVs. Considering Hertz currently has around 505,000 vehicles in its international fleet, the three agreements would have covered the electrification of 67% of its fleet. The plans were ambitious, but the end of 2022 showed that Hertz barely reached 48,000 electric vehicles in its fleet, most of them being Tesla.

One quarter later, Hertz announced during the Q1 2023 earnings call that its EV fleet comprises 50,000 cars, which means it bought very few electric vehicles during the quarter. The electrification process also seems to lose steam, considering that the EV percentage dropped from 11% of the fleet in Q4 2022 to 10% in Q1 2023. However, Hertz's overall fleet has become larger, which means the car rental company has bought more ICE vehicles instead of EVs.

Despite the obvious, Hertz CEO Stephen Scherr said that the company's electrification strategy helped it achieve better-than-expected results in the first quarter. Hertz generated $2 billion in revenue, up 13% year-over-year. Scherr is luring investors with investments in technology and electrification, crediting the good results on this initiative. Although the EV fleet has not changed much, Scherr revealed that Hertz has begun taking deliveries of new EVs from GM and other carmakers.

We're unsure what prompted this stagnation, especially as Tesla cut the prices significantly starting in January. Not only that, but the EV maker no longer has a production problem and is struggling to increase demand. Buying tens of thousands of Teslas at this time would've been a no-brainer for Hertz had it wanted to add all those electric vehicles to its fleet. The Model 3 is at its lowest price in years, and the Model Y is finally becoming affordable. Scherr did say that Hertz profited from the recent price cuts, but this hardly reflected in the number of EVs in its fleet.

One of the reasons could be that customers don't want to rent electric vehicles. In January, we discovered that many unrented Teslas were filling the parking lots, despite Hertz offering better rates on them. Stories on social media show that customers are not used to driving electric vehicles, and Hertz does nothing to educate them. The company handed them the cars with depleted batteries and didn't tell customers how outside temperature and driving style affects range. Because of that, most of them end up disappointed, adding to the urban legend that EVs are inferior to gas-powered cars.
Hertz Stopped Adding More Tesla EVs to Its Fleet, Despite Stating Otherwise - autoevolution
The following users liked this post:
Legend2TL (05-01-2023)
Old 04-28-2023, 10:25 AM
  #3564  
Ex-OEM King
 
SamDoe1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesnowta
Posts: 15,946
Received 5,876 Likes on 3,881 Posts
Hertz royally fucked up the deployment. It's not an issue with the cars, it's an issue with the company not being able to support them properly.
Old 04-29-2023, 04:50 AM
  #3565  
2014 RDX AWD Tech
 
Comfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,149
Received 354 Likes on 325 Posts
The calm before the storm.

Wait for it……
Old 04-30-2023, 08:05 PM
  #3566  
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
 
civicdrivr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: VA
Age: 35
Posts: 35,998
Received 8,182 Likes on 4,827 Posts
You're delirious bud.
Old 05-01-2023, 10:32 AM
  #3567  
Ex-OEM King
 
SamDoe1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesnowta
Posts: 15,946
Received 5,876 Likes on 3,881 Posts
Originally Posted by Comfy
The calm before the storm.

Wait for it……
The calm before the storm is the searing heat causing evaporating demand. Then the high winds will blow away pricing and profits.
Old 05-02-2023, 11:44 AM
  #3568  
2014 RDX AWD Tech
 
Comfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,149
Received 354 Likes on 325 Posts
Who am I to argue with you guys. But I can tell that the legacy executives are definitely shivering.

https://teslamag.de/news/verbrenner-...wachstum-58192
Old 05-02-2023, 11:45 AM
  #3569  
2014 RDX AWD Tech
 
Comfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,149
Received 354 Likes on 325 Posts
Tesla is going for the final kill.



2023 will be Europe
2024…… China
2025……..

There’s still time for the non-believers to join us. Ha ha.

Last edited by Comfy; 05-02-2023 at 11:50 AM.
Old 05-02-2023, 11:57 AM
  #3570  
Ex-OEM King
 
SamDoe1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesnowta
Posts: 15,946
Received 5,876 Likes on 3,881 Posts
Originally Posted by Comfy
There’s still time for the non-believers to join us. Ha ha.
Who's us?

There are two three people (to my knowledge) on this forum who have a Tesla and you're not one of them.

Edit: forgot about Sarlacc

Last edited by SamDoe1; 05-02-2023 at 12:00 PM.
Old 05-02-2023, 02:01 PM
  #3571  
2014 RDX AWD Tech
 
Comfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,149
Received 354 Likes on 325 Posts
Old 05-03-2023, 06:29 AM
  #3572  
Race Director
 
biker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 14,316
Received 624 Likes on 503 Posts
It's easy to jump on the EV bandwagon when incentives or laws outright ban the alternatives.
Old 05-03-2023, 08:32 AM
  #3573  
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
 
civicdrivr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: VA
Age: 35
Posts: 35,998
Received 8,182 Likes on 4,827 Posts
Wonder what China is going to do with all those ICE vehicles...

That's rhetorical - I'm sure they'll just bury them at sea or something infinitely worse for the environment.
Old 05-05-2023, 11:37 AM
  #3574  
2014 RDX AWD Tech
 
Comfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,149
Received 354 Likes on 325 Posts
Originally Posted by biker
It's easy to jump on the EV bandwagon when incentives or laws outright ban the alternatives.
On one hand, the west point fingers at China for doing the most greenhouse emissions (while they themselves do close or it with a fraction of the population) and now when China is taking some really positive measures to address it, people are like….what’s the urgency…

The underlying message is, go all in now… or go home. At least some important people in auto industry are getting the message.

https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/un...6-159d5f9b03c0

#thecompetitioniscoming .
Old 05-05-2023, 05:27 PM
  #3575  
Race Director
 
biker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 14,316
Received 624 Likes on 503 Posts
Originally Posted by Comfy
The underlying message is, go all in now….
You seemed to have missed the message (likely on purpose) - given a level playing field the number of customers willing to get on the EV bandwagon is nowhere you think it is.
Old 05-05-2023, 06:36 PM
  #3576  
Team Owner
 
oonowindoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 23,362
Received 4,273 Likes on 3,050 Posts
Originally Posted by Comfy
On one hand, the west point fingers at China for doing the most greenhouse emissions (while they themselves do close or it with a fraction of the population) and now when China is taking some really positive measures to address it, people are like….what’s the urgency…

The underlying message is, go all in now… or go home. At least some important people in auto industry are getting the message.

https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/un...6-159d5f9b03c0

#thecompetitioniscoming .
Go all in now or go home? WTF does that even mean when it comes to EV? So what if i chose to go home? If you were to tell me to go home to 90%+ of the new car buyers (Non-EV), i will be glad to go home.

and dont compare China with the US. Things that can be implemented in China will never happen in the US and vice versa.

Last edited by oonowindoo; 05-05-2023 at 06:45 PM.
Old 05-05-2023, 06:50 PM
  #3577  
Team Owner
 
oonowindoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 23,362
Received 4,273 Likes on 3,050 Posts
Originally Posted by biker
You seemed to have missed the message (likely on purpose) - given a level playing field the number of customers willing to get on the EV bandwagon is nowhere you think it is.
Well he claimed robotaxi everywhere by 2022? Well it is mid of 2023....
He claimed more than 50% of the new car sold will be EV by 2023 or 2025? . Well in 2022, it was 5.6% in the US. Let's see how that will change within the next 2.5 years.
He also claimed EVERYONE will buy EV very soon...whatever that means.

Last edited by oonowindoo; 05-05-2023 at 06:53 PM.
Old 05-06-2023, 12:58 AM
  #3578  
2014 RDX AWD Tech
 
Comfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,149
Received 354 Likes on 325 Posts
Originally Posted by biker
You seemed to have missed the message (likely on purpose) - given a level playing field the number of customers willing to get on the EV bandwagon is nowhere you think it is.
The message is to the automakers. Customers can flip in an instant, but automakers can’t. Last week I managed to convince a staunch anti EV neighbor to seriously consider Tesla within half an hour.
Old 05-06-2023, 01:06 AM
  #3579  
2014 RDX AWD Tech
 
Comfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,149
Received 354 Likes on 325 Posts
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
Well he claimed robotaxi everywhere by 2022? Well it is mid of 2023....
He claimed more than 50% of the new car sold will be EV by 2023 or 2025? . Well in 2022, it was 5.6% in the US. Let's see how that will change within the next 2.5 years.
He also claimed EVERYONE will buy EV very soon...whatever that means.
You didn’t think that chat GPT would change the way people use internet so soon, right…?
That’s how fast people’s perception can change when they see real benefits. I say it again. The bell curve is just starting. You won’t believe the pace at which ICE industry will collapse. I’m still sticking with 2025 for 50% of new car sales to be EV. It’s not that far fetched. Y will top the global sales likely this year. Then it’ll be all over soon.
Old 05-06-2023, 09:19 AM
  #3580  
The Third Ball
 
Sarlacc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Age: 45
Posts: 49,154
Received 4,834 Likes on 2,576 Posts
Originally Posted by SamDoe1
Who's us?

There are two three people (to my knowledge) on this forum who have a Tesla and you're not one of them.

Edit: forgot about Sarlacc
Gee thanks, jerk.
Old 05-06-2023, 10:38 AM
  #3581  
Race Director
 
biker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 14,316
Received 624 Likes on 503 Posts
Originally Posted by Comfy
The message is to the automakers. Customers can flip in an instant, but automakers can’t. Last week I managed to convince a staunch anti EV neighbor to seriously consider Tesla within half an hour.
Most folks don't have one nagging them nor will they listen to an EV evangelist - they buy what makes sense to them.
Old 05-06-2023, 02:39 PM
  #3582  
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
 
civicdrivr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: VA
Age: 35
Posts: 35,998
Received 8,182 Likes on 4,827 Posts
And that's not considering the others that simply can't afford one.
The following users liked this post:
pttl (05-06-2023)
Old 05-06-2023, 11:31 PM
  #3583  
2014 RDX AWD Tech
 
Comfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,149
Received 354 Likes on 325 Posts
Originally Posted by civicdrivr
And that's not considering the others that simply can't afford one.
Exactly. That’s why Tesla is cutting prices for 3 & Y as much as possible. Once they market the cheaper car (design already finalized and testing of the internals have all been completed in the existing models). They simply won’t announce it so as not to Osborne the current models.
Old 05-07-2023, 06:05 AM
  #3584  
Race Director
 
biker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 14,316
Received 624 Likes on 503 Posts
Yet another EV issue the comfortable one may not be comfortable with:

I had just covered the BMS_u029 issue when I last wrote about how crucial it is for battery electric vehicle (BEV) buyers to know how much their battery packs will last. Although this error code is allegedly just a grim prognosis, affected customers suspect it is on purpose: the battery packs are all failing at the same time – as if they were programmed to do so. What if they can only live that much? No automaker has addressed that: some even brag that BEVs are the future and nothing can beat them. If that were true, cars would be doomed. While they ignore the limited lifespan of battery packs, BEVs will remain as rich people's toys.

The average Joe is used to fixing expensive goods – such as vehicles. He took a long time to afford his car and will probably take a lot more to buy another one, which means that whatever he is driving has to last. When the time comes to replace it, the old car will be part of the payment, so it would better depreciate very little. Only affluent folks buy new vehicles with no concerns – usually every year.

There was a time when fixing a smartphone or a laptop made sense. Now, when their batteries die, it is generally time to buy a new one because the hardware and software will have evolved so much in that short time that you'd only fix these gadgets if you had an emotional attachment to them. The money you will spend on repairs will be close to what you'd pay on a new device. BEVs will force us to apply the same logic to cars, mainly due to their battery packs. This may be the strongest reason (even if not the most obvious) for them to be called "computers on wheels" – a very poor choice of words when you remember how often computers crash.

Batteries have low energy density. When you make a pack with them, a 75-kWh unit holds as much energy as 2 gallons of gasoline. That means you need loads of batteries to have a decent range. The bigger the battery pack, the more expensive it is. There are several technical challenges with keeping the component healthy, and one of the major ones is making all cells have similar charges and release them at the same speed. Early battery packs were divided into modules, so the car had to keep the cells inside the module and the modules inside the battery pack balanced with each other. All you need is one cell or module to fail for the whole battery pack to face problems.

Several businesses have emerged to try to service battery packs. Companies like 057 Technology and ReCell are specialized in them, particularly in Tesla vehicles. However, they do not manufacture these components: they only try to recover them. That alone is quite a challenge because Tesla did not conceive its battery packs to be repaired. So much so that it just replaces the defective components. On top of that, these battery packs evolved into the structural units the Texan Model Y gets. If these new battery packs fail, it is not economically viable to repair them. Substitution is the only choice.

The problem is that replacing battery packs costs a fortune. Owners of the Model S units with BMS_u029 and BMS_u018 error codes are receiving estimates of more than $14,000 for remanufactured battery packs and more than $18,000 for new ones – including labor. These early Model S units are worth around $25,000. Even with a remanufactured battery pack, you'll spend more than half the vehicle's price to fix it. Insurance companies usually write off any car that has a repair bill that exceeds 50% of its value. Can you see where this is leading us? Repairing is so expensive that buying a new BEV (or any other new vehicle) is much more attractive. The truth is that governments and activists are pushing us to disposable cars.

I already hear electric car advocates screaming that I am out of my mind when I say this is a rich people's game or that these BEVs are headed for the trash after they get old. After all, we have so many BEVs at affordable prices! The BYD Dolphin costs only the equivalent of $15,000 in China! Sure, but who can spend $15,000 every time they need a new ride? Most people can't. Have you seen how much the Dolphin will cost in Europe? Between €30,000 ($33,099 at the current exchange rate) and €38,000 ($41,925). Even if it kept the Chinese price tag and if other competitors charged even less, that's not the core problem. What we should be discussing and have completely failed to do is how much a battery pack costs compared to the rest of the car. Any car.

See the inexpensive Wuling Hongguang Mini EV, which is not even considered an automobile in most markets – it is a quadricycle. In China, it starts at RMB32,800 ($4,746). In Europe, a rebadged Mini EV costs around €10,000 ($11,033). How much does its 13.9-kWh lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery pack cost? I have no idea. First, it is sold in China, which makes it more challenging to get information about the electric quadricycle. Second, the Mini EV is not old enough to need a battery pack replacement.

I searched for a 10-kWh LFP battery pack just for us to have an idea of how much it could cost. Fortress Power sells one: a stationary LFP energy storage system (ESS) with that capacity. The lowest price I found for it was $4,750, more than the Wuling Hongguang Mini EV costs in China and almost half of its worth in Europe. Consider that a used quadricycle will be worth much less than a new one and that 10 kWh is less than 13.9 kWh. That said, the Fortress Power ESS confirms how bad the situation can be for BEVs when battery pack replacements are needed.

Whether the vehicle is an affordable Mini EV or a GMC Hummer EV, buying a new one will probably pay off rather than fixing the BEV with the dead component. There are other elements to make purchasing a new electric car more attractive than repairing the used one. The owners now mending their Teslas with catastrophic error codes will have only four years of warranty on their battery packs, whether they are new or remanufactured. They would have twice as much coverage if they bought a new vehicle. The best shot customers have is to buy a new car. If they are disposable, that will eventually kill most of the used automobile market.

Who will buy a second-hand BEV when its battery pack is out of warranty? Who will keep them when this legal protection is over? Toyota is offering coverage for ten years or 1 million kilometers (621,371 miles) on the bZ4X battery pack, but only in Europe and for customers who accept to follow an annual EV Health Check. Good, but what happens after ten years? The older Model S units with failing battery packs are still ten years old: the car's first deliveries happened in June 2012.

The warranty will be the only element keeping BEVs from hitting junkyards. Nowadays, it is not unusual to buy old combustion-engined vehicles that are 15 to 20 years old in the used market. I have recently purchased a 21-year-old Opel Zafira with its original mill that runs like clockwork. You can have a fair idea of how an engine and a gearbox are just by putting them to work. What about battery packs? You can't check their interior. Even if you could, what would you look for? Signs of corrosion? What if their cells have manufacturing defects, such as the ones with the Hyundai Kona Electric and the Chevrolet Bolt EV? They may fail without warnings. In other words, forget about checking the condition of used BEVs: that will not mean much when the real danger is almost impossible to determine.

Theoretically, carmakers could take a few measures to address this problem. They only have to tell us if they are feasible or not. If the answer is negative, cars will be really limited to a privileged few, with all the consequences that this should bring. If automakers are not able to answer or are unwilling to do so, they are probably as lost as the people who are beginning to learn that their EVs will no longer work – and they are equally screwed. There's still time to avoid that, but I'll leave it to a future story.
BEVs Will Remain Rich People's Toys If They Ignore Battery Packs' Limited Lifespan - autoevolution
The following users liked this post:
pttl (05-07-2023)
Old 05-07-2023, 10:37 AM
  #3585  
My first Avatar....
 
pttl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 24,044
Received 5,884 Likes on 3,784 Posts
<--- waiting for the rationalizations to flow.
Old 05-07-2023, 01:18 PM
  #3586  
2014 RDX AWD Tech
 
Comfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,149
Received 354 Likes on 325 Posts
All of these have been already addressed and there’s no need to rehash everything again. I believe biker is smart enough to know that.

The rich man’s toy argument is already failing as the Teslas cost less than the average new cars in the market.

Old 05-07-2023, 02:19 PM
  #3587  
My first Avatar....
 
pttl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 24,044
Received 5,884 Likes on 3,784 Posts
Old 05-07-2023, 08:10 PM
  #3588  
Race Director
 
biker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 14,316
Received 624 Likes on 503 Posts
Originally Posted by Comfy
All of these have been already addressed and there’s no need to rehash everything again. I believe biker is smart enough to know that.

The rich man’s toy argument is already failing as the Teslas cost less than the average new cars in the market.
Biker is also smart enough to know that you'd deflect with a comment that completely misses the point of the article which has nothing to do with the up-front cost of EVs.
The following users liked this post:
civicdrivr (05-07-2023)
Old 05-07-2023, 08:27 PM
  #3589  
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
 
civicdrivr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: VA
Age: 35
Posts: 35,998
Received 8,182 Likes on 4,827 Posts
Originally Posted by Comfy
Exactly. That’s why Tesla is cutting prices for 3 & Y as much as possible. Once they market the cheaper car (design already finalized and testing of the internals have all been completed in the existing models). They simply won’t announce it so as not to Osborne the current models.
You're missing the point. Not everyone can afford a brand new car. The used car market is massive, especially for sub-$15k cars. There are people that literally cannot afford a $20, 25, or 30k car, and it's highly likely they won't even be able to install a charger at their home (which they likely rent).
The following 2 users liked this post by civicdrivr:
pttl (05-07-2023), SamDoe1 (05-07-2023)
Old 05-07-2023, 08:28 PM
  #3590  
Ex-OEM King
 
SamDoe1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesnowta
Posts: 15,946
Received 5,876 Likes on 3,881 Posts
Originally Posted by Comfy
The message is to the automakers. Customers can flip in an instant, but automakers can’t. Last week I managed to convince a staunch anti EV neighbor to seriously consider Tesla within half an hour.
You haven't even convinced yourself to buy one one so this argument is BS as usual.

Originally Posted by Sarlacc
Gee thanks, jerk.
Sorry man, I owned up and fixed it!

Originally Posted by Comfy
Exactly. That’s why Tesla is cutting prices for 3 & Y as much as possible. Once they market the cheaper car (design already finalized and testing of the internals have all been completed in the existing models). They simply won’t announce it so as not to Osborne the current models.
So...they invested the time and money to develop something that they aren't going to sell?

If you were running Tesla it would have gone under within a year or two.
The following 2 users liked this post by SamDoe1:
civicdrivr (05-07-2023), oonowindoo (05-08-2023)
Old 05-08-2023, 12:03 AM
  #3591  
The Third Ball
 
Sarlacc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Age: 45
Posts: 49,154
Received 4,834 Likes on 2,576 Posts
Originally Posted by SamDoe1


Sorry man, I owned up and fixed it!

[size=33px].
[/size]

I was kidding. Shoulda done red text.
Old 05-08-2023, 04:45 AM
  #3592  
2014 RDX AWD Tech
 
Comfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,149
Received 354 Likes on 325 Posts
Originally Posted by biker
Biker is also smart enough to know that you'd deflect with a comment that completely misses the point of the article which has nothing to do with the up-front cost of EVs.
Originally Posted by civicdrivr
You're missing the point. Not everyone can afford a brand new car. The used car market is massive, especially for sub-$15k cars. There are people that literally cannot afford a $20, 25, or 30k car, and it's highly likely they won't even be able to install a charger at their home (which they likely rent).
So why’d you all assume that EVs won’t sell in used car market? That’s a laughable argument. If a new EV is cheaper than average new car, then used EV will be equally great value when it’s available. If not enough used EVs are in the market that itself is a testament to its value.

Originally Posted by SamDoe1

So...they invested the time and money to develop something that they aren't going to sell?

If you were running Tesla it would have gone under within a year or two.
How did you come to this conclusion? You are hilarious.
Old 05-08-2023, 06:50 AM
  #3593  
Race Director
 
biker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 14,316
Received 624 Likes on 503 Posts
Writers seem to be aiming some of their articles at the comfortable one:

Legacy automakers never lower car prices. They may offer discounts and promotions, but it is always against a fixed MSRP price tag. That allows buyers to compare the benefits and want to take advantage of the bargain. Tesla decided to be innovative with its pricing strategy and lowered prices six times in a row. The sales numbers from China-made vehicles prove how wrong playing with prices can go.

The company sold 75,842 units made at Giga Shanghai, including both the internal market and export units, which was apparently a good result when compared to April 2022, but it was 14.7% worse than the sales in March – when prices were higher. For a company that insists that it has no demand problems, that is hard to explain. For the record, the sales in April 2022 were meager: only 1,512 units.

The international health crisis was hitting hard in China, and Giga Shanghai was closed due to COVID-19. Elon Musk did not defy the Chinese government shutdown orders, which probably prevented him from tweeting that if anyone were to be arrested, that should be him. He only did that at the Fremont factory in May 2020. Tesla's compliance with the Chinese orders led to low sales that were pretty easy to beat.

In March, the company sold 88,869 cars made in China, which includes those exported to Europe. In other words, and despite the record the Model Y is breaking more recently, the lower sales numbers probably also have to do with lower European demand. Insurance numbers suggest Tesla sold a bit more than 29,000 battery electric vehicles (BEVs) to customers in China, which leaves almost 47,000 units for export markets.

Although it is common for Tesla to send more BEVs abroad at the beginning of each quarter, the company's inventory is building up. That said, it could have sold many more vehicles in the Chinese market than it did. According to CNEVPost, the reason for that could have been the company's pricing policy.

Chinese customers have taken the price reductions in a pretty bad way. Some even invaded and vandalized Tesla Service Centers after paying prices that were reduced just days after their purchases. The current theory is that possible new buyers decided to wait for the prices to drop even more before buying a new Tesla.

That theory is confirmed by several moves from the BEV maker. The first happened on April 14, when Grace Tao shared several charts on her Weibo account. Tesla's vice president of external affairs wanted to show how the company's Chinese products cost less in China than anywhere else they were sold. In other words, she wanted to show there was no way they could get any cheaper. It did not work.

That was when Tesla decided to raise prices for the Model 3 and Model Y. On May 2, the company started asking RMB2,000 ($289 at the current exchange) more from customers. The low increase was interpreted more as a message that prices would not be reduced any more than as a real need to raise the prices the BEV maker had just made smaller. On May 5, Tesla also increased the values for the Model S and the Model X.

It is not clear if these measures will help the company reverse the sales drop it has experienced recently. That probably has more to do with how old the company's lineup looks, especially for Chinese customers. With a wide variety of new BEVs to choose from, people will only pick a Tesla if they are worried about where to charge. Tesla's Supercharging network is an asset, but it will be less crucial when the BEV maker opens some of these stations to other vehicles in an attempt to receive government incentives. Making its chargers more profitable can also be a valid reason.

On top of that, Tesla has a reputation problem in China that it is not trying to fix in the best way. Sudden unintended acceleration episodes keep popping up there, and all the company has done so far is blame the drivers or even sue them when they accuse Tesla of selling them defective vehicles.

The American BEV maker also recently lost for the third time a lawsuit for fraud. The company sold Han Chao a certified pre-owned Model S in May 2019. While Tesla said it had "no major accidents" and "no structural damage," Chao discovered it had to have its C-pillar replaced after a crash. Tesla will have to pay him RMB1,518,800 ($219,781), but the main issue was being convicted for something so serious, especially against a customer.

Paying less for any product is always good news when that does not affect other customers, only the competition in any given industry. In Tesla's case, the price reduction strategy was flawed for loyal customers (who felt cheated), for new customers (who wished to pay even less), for the company (which prevented its own sales with its unpredictable tactics and jeopardized the residual values of its cars), and for its investors. There are more than one tried-and-true ways to do that: creating new derivatives, a new model, promotions, you name it. Tesla supporters should only hope for one thing: that the company learned why legacy carmakers follow these paths.
Tesla's April China Sales Numbers Tell How Wrong Playing With Prices Can Go - autoevolution
Old 05-08-2023, 11:19 AM
  #3594  
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
 
civicdrivr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: VA
Age: 35
Posts: 35,998
Received 8,182 Likes on 4,827 Posts
Originally Posted by Comfy
So why’d you all assume that EVs won’t sell in used car market? That’s a laughable argument. If a new EV is cheaper than average new car, then used EV will be equally great value when it’s available. If not enough used EVs are in the market that itself is a testament to its value.
I'm not surprised that you can't see the big picture...

There's 1,207 used EVs on Autotrader under $15k. They are Chevy Sparks, i3s, Leafs, Smart cars, and some Focus EVs. None of these cars can travel over 100 miles on a charge when new. A single parent that needs a sedan to take their kids to school and get to work isn't going to buy a Leaf for $12k and only be able to travel 50 miles on a charge. And you're conveniently ignoring the at home charging requirement that they likely don't have access to - and again, this does not surprise me.

If your follow up response includes the words "But when Tesla releases...", close the browser. I don't want to hear about the $25k EV that Tesla doesn't have and won't be bringing to market.
The following users liked this post:
SamDoe1 (05-08-2023)
Old 05-08-2023, 11:29 AM
  #3595  
2014 RDX AWD Tech
 
Comfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,149
Received 354 Likes on 325 Posts
Originally Posted by civicdrivr
I'm not surprised that you can't see the big picture...

There's 1,207 used EVs on Autotrader under $15k. They are Chevy Sparks, i3s, Leafs, Smart cars, and some Focus EVs. None of these cars can travel over 100 miles on a charge when new. A single parent that needs a sedan to take their kids to school and get to work isn't going to buy a Leaf for $12k and only be able to travel 50 miles on a charge..

Again proving my point. If you don’t see any EVs with reasonable range on the used car sites, does it tell you something…..???

EV aren’t that common for one, anything else…???. LOL.

Old 05-08-2023, 11:37 AM
  #3596  
Ex-OEM King
 
SamDoe1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesnowta
Posts: 15,946
Received 5,876 Likes on 3,881 Posts
Originally Posted by Comfy
Again proving my point. If you don’t see any EVs with reasonable range on the used car sites, does it tell you something…..???

EV aren’t that common for one, anything else…???. LOL.
You are yet again missing the point. There are THOUSANDS of Teslas for sale on used car sites. A search on cars.com shows that there are 2415 Model 3's and 1117 Model Y's for sale at dealerships around the country. Similar numbers for MX and MS cars too. The cheapest one is about $20k and ten years old. So yeah, it tells me that the ones with reasonable range are out of the price range of a lot of people looking for a car these days. To again echo what civic said, this doesn't include a charging strategy since many people looking for cheap cars don't even own their own home and even modern rental places don't have easy access to charging let alone cheaper and low income housing.

EV's aren't uncommon anymore, they are still expensive though. Which, if I remember correctly, is the big reason why you don't have one yourself.

Last edited by SamDoe1; 05-08-2023 at 11:39 AM.
The following 2 users liked this post by SamDoe1:
00TL-P3.2 (05-08-2023), civicdrivr (05-08-2023)
Old 05-08-2023, 11:37 AM
  #3597  
2014 RDX AWD Tech
 
Comfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,149
Received 354 Likes on 325 Posts
Originally Posted by biker
Writers seem to be aiming some of their articles at the comfortable one:
Tesla's April China Sales Numbers Tell How Wrong Playing With Prices Can Go - autoevolution

Yes it’s true Legacy automakers rarely lower their prices.

But the legacy auto funded journalists are trying hard to convince the public that lowering car prices are a bad thing. Ha ha ha.
Too bad you fell for that.

Now will they say that lowering gas prices and grocery prices is also bad. LOL.

The reason they are against lowering prices is because they can’t. But Tesla can, and they are easily eating into their lunch.
The article you cited is written by a legacy shill. ….Don’t lower prices”…..That’s the cry of the dying breed. If you can’t see the truth, I feel sorry for you.
Old 05-08-2023, 11:42 AM
  #3598  
Ex-OEM King
 
SamDoe1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesnowta
Posts: 15,946
Received 5,876 Likes on 3,881 Posts
Originally Posted by Comfy
Yes it’s true Legacy automakers rarely lower their prices.

But the legacy auto funded journalists are trying hard to convince the public that lowering car prices are a bad thing. Ha ha ha.
Too bad you fell for that.

Now will they say that lowering gas prices and grocery prices is also bad. LOL.

The reason they are against lowering prices is because they can’t. But Tesla can, and they are easily eating into their lunch.
The article you cited is written by a legacy shill. ….Don’t lower prices”…..That’s the cry of the dying breed. If you can’t see the truth, I feel sorry for you.
They can and they did. Ford just dropped the price of the Mach E and many others are coming out with cheaper models as well. You don't have to just lower prices, you can also launch new models that are cheaper which is what a lot of companies are doing.

The reason Tesla dropped prices is because demand is drying up, competition is rising, people aren't buying them as much as they were before, and they don't have any new/novel cars these days. A modern Tesla is not as good as many of the competition. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Old 05-08-2023, 11:46 AM
  #3599  
2014 RDX AWD Tech
 
Comfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,149
Received 354 Likes on 325 Posts
Originally Posted by civicdrivr
I'm not surprised that you can't see the big picture...

There's 1,207 used EVs on Autotrader under $15k. They are Chevy Sparks, i3s, Leafs, Smart cars, and some Focus EVs. None of these cars can travel over 100 miles on a charge when new. A single parent that needs a sedan to take their kids to school and get to work isn't going to buy a Leaf for $12k and only be able to travel 50 miles on a charge. And you're conveniently ignoring the at home charging requirement that they likely don't have access to - and again, this does not surprise me.

If your follow up response includes the words "But when Tesla releases...", close the browser. I don't want to hear about the $25k EV that Tesla doesn't have and won't be bringing to market.
Originally Posted by SamDoe1
You are yet again missing the point. There are THOUSANDS of Teslas for sale on used car sites. A search on cars.com shows that there are 2415 Model 3's and 1117 Model Y's for sale at dealerships around the country. Similar numbers for MX and MS cars too.
You two are stating opposite facts. Why don’t you talk to each other and come to a consensus. .
Old 05-08-2023, 11:48 AM
  #3600  
Moderator
 
00TL-P3.2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Spring, TX
Age: 38
Posts: 25,777
Received 5,319 Likes on 3,648 Posts
Their points are the same, but different segments.
Civic said there's 1200 EVs under$15k
Sam said there's thousands, with no price cap, with the cheapest Tesla being around $20k


Quick Reply: Tesla: Sales, Marketing, and Financial News



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:27 AM.