Tesla: Development and Technology News
05-23-2023, 06:00 AM
#2001
AZ Community Team
Understanding Tesla's Heat Pump System
Kinda surprised Tesla didn't do the PTC air heater first and went for the coolant based heater first. Heat Pump are obviously the best for efficiency
05-25-2023, 05:05 PM
#2002
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Ford EVs will use Tesla charging tech in surprise partnership between rival automakers
DETROIT – Ford Motor will partner with Tesla on charging initiatives for its current and future electric vehicles in an unusual tie-up between the two rivals, CEOs of the automakers announced Thursday. Under the agreement current Ford owners will be granted access to more than 12,000 Tesla Superchargers across the U.S. and Canada starting early next year. And, Ford’s next-generation of EVs — expected by mid-decade — will include Tesla’s charging plug, allowing owners of Ford vehicles to charge at Tesla Superchargers without an adapter, making Ford among the first automakers to explicitly tie into the network.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/25/tesl...aces-talk.html
DETROIT – Ford Motor will partner with Tesla on charging initiatives for its current and future electric vehicles in an unusual tie-up between the two rivals, CEOs of the automakers announced Thursday. Under the agreement current Ford owners will be granted access to more than 12,000 Tesla Superchargers across the U.S. and Canada starting early next year. And, Ford’s next-generation of EVs — expected by mid-decade — will include Tesla’s charging plug, allowing owners of Ford vehicles to charge at Tesla Superchargers without an adapter, making Ford among the first automakers to explicitly tie into the network.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/25/tesl...aces-talk.html
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#1 STUNNA (05-25-2023)
05-25-2023, 06:15 PM
#2003
Ex-OEM King
Current Ford owners will still need an adapter and the cables at supercharger stalls will need to be way longer to reach the plugs soo...
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civicdrivr (05-26-2023)
05-25-2023, 07:03 PM
#2004
Sanest Florida Man
Electrify America is going to kill CCS in the US. Now it makes sense for GM to join them…
05-25-2023, 10:39 PM
#2005
05-26-2023, 09:10 AM
#2006
Ex-OEM King
Absolutely but they aren't the only ones guilty of this. IDGAF what plug things have, it should just 1. be the same and 2. just work every time. If that's the Tesla plug then so be it, there will be an adapter for everyone else. There's no difference in the way a Tesla charges vs any other car, it's just all in communications.
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civicdrivr (05-26-2023)
05-26-2023, 11:34 PM
#2007
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
^ this
Standardize it, just like gas pumps.
Standardize it, just like gas pumps.
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Legend2TL (05-29-2023)
06-03-2023, 12:21 PM
#2008
Sanest Florida Man
NACS charging network vs CCS charging network, obvious choice
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Comfy (06-05-2023)
06-05-2023, 09:13 AM
#2009
Sanest Florida Man
#TheCompetitionIsComing
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Comfy (06-05-2023)
06-05-2023, 11:55 AM
#2010
Ex-OEM King
You joke that the competition isn't coming but them admitting the issues is step 1 and you better believe they've started to fix those issues. Their resources and being able to pull financial backing from the ICE sales (which vastly outpace EV sales) will really push this along a lot faster than you think it will.
Legacy ICE cars all ran off the same shit and were tangibly different in operation than an EV so it makes sense that they are behind in that regard. If you look at Lucid and Rivian they are set up the same as Tesla and, in the case of Rivian, the SW is better than Tesla's in many aspects already and only continues to improve. Tesla has sold the same fucking car(s) for the past decade, that novelty is wearing off and quickly.
Legacy ICE cars all ran off the same shit and were tangibly different in operation than an EV so it makes sense that they are behind in that regard. If you look at Lucid and Rivian they are set up the same as Tesla and, in the case of Rivian, the SW is better than Tesla's in many aspects already and only continues to improve. Tesla has sold the same fucking car(s) for the past decade, that novelty is wearing off and quickly.
06-05-2023, 09:18 PM
#2011
HA ha ....So you still backing up the same old legacy OEMs....competition is coming... they are at the brink of admitting defeat...
https://electrek.co/2023/06/05/gm-ce...le-30-40k-evs/
************************************At a Sanford Bernstein conference, Barra commented on the current EV market and admitted that Tesla has the lead in it, but she hinted that she believes GM can catch up (via Reuters):
Barra acknowledged that Tesla Inc has the lead in EV technology, profitability and scale, but said that lead is not permanent.
She added about EV profitability:
EV battery costs are still too high to build profitable mass-market vehicles, that sell for $30,000 to $40,000, Barra said. But she predicted EV and combustion vehicle costs will equalize “sometime in the latter part of this decade… maybe a little longer.”
That’s a strange comment considering GM is currently selling the Chevy Bolt EV starting at $26,500 and has promised a starting price of around $30,000 for the Equinox EV.
************************************************** ***************
They were supposed to catch up by 2025.. Isn't it. Now that's been pushed back to 2030 or later...LOL
https://electrek.co/2023/06/05/gm-ce...le-30-40k-evs/
************************************At a Sanford Bernstein conference, Barra commented on the current EV market and admitted that Tesla has the lead in it, but she hinted that she believes GM can catch up (via Reuters):
Barra acknowledged that Tesla Inc has the lead in EV technology, profitability and scale, but said that lead is not permanent.
She added about EV profitability:
EV battery costs are still too high to build profitable mass-market vehicles, that sell for $30,000 to $40,000, Barra said. But she predicted EV and combustion vehicle costs will equalize “sometime in the latter part of this decade… maybe a little longer.”
That’s a strange comment considering GM is currently selling the Chevy Bolt EV starting at $26,500 and has promised a starting price of around $30,000 for the Equinox EV.
************************************************** ***************
They were supposed to catch up by 2025.. Isn't it. Now that's been pushed back to 2030 or later...LOL
06-06-2023, 09:28 AM
#2012
Ex-OEM King
I seriously question your ability to read.
Barra said: "Tesla Inc has the lead in EV technology, profitability and scale, but said that lead is not permanent."
Meaning they won't lead forever and probably not for a whole lot longer.
Next she said: "EV battery costs are still too high to build profitable mass-market vehicles, that sell for $30,000 to $40,000, Barra said. But she predicted EV and combustion vehicle costs will equalize “sometime in the latter part of this decade"
Meaning low cost, mass market EV's are not profitable in that price range not that they aren't catching up. Higher cost EV's are profitable, especially the larger SUV's and trucks that people want.
Barra said: "Tesla Inc has the lead in EV technology, profitability and scale, but said that lead is not permanent."
Meaning they won't lead forever and probably not for a whole lot longer.
Next she said: "EV battery costs are still too high to build profitable mass-market vehicles, that sell for $30,000 to $40,000, Barra said. But she predicted EV and combustion vehicle costs will equalize “sometime in the latter part of this decade"
Meaning low cost, mass market EV's are not profitable in that price range not that they aren't catching up. Higher cost EV's are profitable, especially the larger SUV's and trucks that people want.
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civicdrivr (06-06-2023)
06-06-2023, 01:34 PM
#2013
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
And as I noticed in the other thread, GM is the company that actually has sub-$30k EVs. Tesla does not.
06-08-2023, 06:24 AM
#2014
06-08-2023, 03:35 PM
#2015
Sanest Florida Man
CCS in the US
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Comfy (06-08-2023)
06-08-2023, 03:38 PM
#2016
Sanest Florida Man
EA better add NACS support or it's over for them
06-08-2023, 04:00 PM
#2017
Ex-OEM King
With this news, Rivian and Lucid aren't far behind. Just need adapters for everyone else!
06-08-2023, 05:42 PM
#2018
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Now I feel good about having a wall charger installed - it'll still be useful after I get rid of the Tesla.
06-08-2023, 10:15 PM
#2019
06-09-2023, 09:59 AM
#2020
Sanest Florida Man
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civicdrivr (06-09-2023)
06-09-2023, 05:37 PM
#2021
Sanest Florida Man
06-12-2023, 11:33 AM
#2022
Sanest Florida Man
06-12-2023, 01:14 PM
#2023
Sanest Florida Man
The people behind the CCS standard are in now too
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Comfy (06-12-2023)
06-12-2023, 01:49 PM
#2024
Ex-OEM King
I'm all in for NACS provided there are adapters or conversion kits for people with current CCS cars...of which there are a lot. The plug at the end doesn't matter to me as long as it's available and works consistently.
06-12-2023, 04:45 PM
#2025
Sanest Florida Man
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06-19-2023, 08:21 AM
#2026
Race Director
Thread Starter
Tesla celebrated an important 4680 cell production milestone, with the 10 millionth cell produced at Giga Texas. Although the number sounds impressive, it is still insufficient for mass production. You could power about 11,500 EVs with that entire production, which is not very much.
Tesla bet its future on the bigger cell form factor that is now known as 4680 based on its diameter (46 mm or 1.81 inches) and height (80 mm/3.15 in). When it introduced the new cells during Battery Day in 2020, Tesla promised a revolutionary Li-ion cell with improved chemistry and a manufacturing process that would shave production costs by over 50%.
One year later, the cells proved to be just bigger ordinary cells with no chemistry advantages. Tesla is still working hard on the dry battery electrode manufacturing process, which is a hard nut to crack. Without it, the new form factor makes little sense, as it would lead to more space waste inside the battery pack and, thus, lower energy density. This was proven after Model Y started shipping with the 4680 cells from Giga Texas.
Tesla was confident that the 4680 cells would finally prove their superiority and stopped investing in 21700-cell production. This led to production bottlenecks, as Elon Musk admitted when discussing Tesla Semi production numbers. The Tesla Semi might be a niche product, but the Cybertruck, the other new model that relies on the 4680 cells, is anything but. Cybertruck production start is also said to have been affected by the shortage of 4680 cells.
The production of 4680 cells at Tesla's Fremont pilot production facility and Giga Texas has steadily increased during the past months, but it's still far from covering Tesla's production needs. Last December, Tesla announced that it reached a production capacity of 868,000 cells per week, enough to build 1,000 cars per week. This figure covered the Fremont facility and the Giga Texas production, with the latter probably responsible for a smaller number of 4680 cells.
Tesla celebrated the 10 millionth 4680 cell produced at Giga Texas, which sounds like an impressive milestone. Based on Tesla's previous announcement, this should cover the battery pack production for about 11,500 EVs, which is not very much. This is the entire cell production since Giga Texas started manufacturing cells a year ago. Tesla will need this quantity produced weekly to have enough cells for the Cybertruck production through next year.
Tesla recently announced building another 4680-cell factory in Nevada, with a targeted annual production capacity of 100 GWh, or 1.5 million EVs with a battery capacity of 67 kWh. This is the battery capacity of the 4680 Model Y produced at Giga Texas. Tesla also urged its partners Panasonic and LGES to accelerate their 4680 cell plans, but that doesn't appear to go as planned. Panasonic recently announced delays to its program until next year.
Tesla bet its future on the bigger cell form factor that is now known as 4680 based on its diameter (46 mm or 1.81 inches) and height (80 mm/3.15 in). When it introduced the new cells during Battery Day in 2020, Tesla promised a revolutionary Li-ion cell with improved chemistry and a manufacturing process that would shave production costs by over 50%.
One year later, the cells proved to be just bigger ordinary cells with no chemistry advantages. Tesla is still working hard on the dry battery electrode manufacturing process, which is a hard nut to crack. Without it, the new form factor makes little sense, as it would lead to more space waste inside the battery pack and, thus, lower energy density. This was proven after Model Y started shipping with the 4680 cells from Giga Texas.
Tesla was confident that the 4680 cells would finally prove their superiority and stopped investing in 21700-cell production. This led to production bottlenecks, as Elon Musk admitted when discussing Tesla Semi production numbers. The Tesla Semi might be a niche product, but the Cybertruck, the other new model that relies on the 4680 cells, is anything but. Cybertruck production start is also said to have been affected by the shortage of 4680 cells.
The production of 4680 cells at Tesla's Fremont pilot production facility and Giga Texas has steadily increased during the past months, but it's still far from covering Tesla's production needs. Last December, Tesla announced that it reached a production capacity of 868,000 cells per week, enough to build 1,000 cars per week. This figure covered the Fremont facility and the Giga Texas production, with the latter probably responsible for a smaller number of 4680 cells.
Tesla celebrated the 10 millionth 4680 cell produced at Giga Texas, which sounds like an impressive milestone. Based on Tesla's previous announcement, this should cover the battery pack production for about 11,500 EVs, which is not very much. This is the entire cell production since Giga Texas started manufacturing cells a year ago. Tesla will need this quantity produced weekly to have enough cells for the Cybertruck production through next year.
Tesla recently announced building another 4680-cell factory in Nevada, with a targeted annual production capacity of 100 GWh, or 1.5 million EVs with a battery capacity of 67 kWh. This is the battery capacity of the 4680 Model Y produced at Giga Texas. Tesla also urged its partners Panasonic and LGES to accelerate their 4680 cell plans, but that doesn't appear to go as planned. Panasonic recently announced delays to its program until next year.
06-19-2023, 09:29 AM
#2027
Ex-OEM King
One year later, the cells proved to be just bigger ordinary cells with no chemistry advantages. Tesla is still working hard on the dry battery electrode manufacturing process, which is a hard nut to crack. Without it, the new form factor makes little sense, as it would lead to more space waste inside the battery pack and, thus, lower energy density. This was proven after Model Y started shipping with the 4680 cells from Giga Texas.
06-20-2023, 08:08 AM
#2028
Sanest Florida Man
06-20-2023, 08:37 AM
#2029
Sanest Florida Man
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Comfy (06-20-2023)
06-20-2023, 09:38 AM
#2030
Ex-OEM King
Not sure why this is in the Tesla thread but hell yeah! I'll be getting this adapter ASAP when it's available.
Time to start planning some road trips to cool places real soon. This plus the Rivian network (which they hopefully will now pivot to less served areas) will get EV's out to all kinds of places previously unavailable.
Time to start planning some road trips to cool places real soon. This plus the Rivian network (which they hopefully will now pivot to less served areas) will get EV's out to all kinds of places previously unavailable.
06-20-2023, 09:26 PM
#2031
06-20-2023, 09:31 PM
#2032
Lucid still holds on to the CCS. Won't budge on NACS adapter even though it may put them at a massive disadvantage. 
https://www.reddit.com/r/Lucid_Group...about_nacswsj/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Lucid_Group...about_nacswsj/
06-21-2023, 09:16 AM
#2033
Ex-OEM King
Lucid has a lot of other things to figure out more so than the port it comes with.
06-21-2023, 09:17 AM
#2034
Sanest Florida Man
06-21-2023, 11:49 AM
#2035
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
I don't think Rawlinson said they wouldn't use NACS. They would prefer to choose whichever standard can get to 1000V charging first. The connector doesn't matter, especially when 90% (his figure) of charging occurs at home overnight, when fast charging isn't needed.
I think the only thing he is missing is which charging stations (for the 10% that need to charge on the road) are more plentiful and reliable. And it isn't CCS.
I think the only thing he is missing is which charging stations (for the 10% that need to charge on the road) are more plentiful and reliable. And it isn't CCS.
06-24-2023, 06:17 AM
#2036
Race Director
Thread Starter
Inductive charging has made significant progress in recent years, and many consider it ripe for charging electric vehicles. Tesla is looking to acquire German wireless charging pioneer Wiferion, fueling the rumors that the EV maker is preparing an inductive charging solution.
Inductive charging is not a new concept, being used for charging electric toothbrushes and other devices that spend most of their time in humid environments. Recently, wireless charging solutions for mobile phones have become widespread, and the auto industry has adopted them as an elegant way to charge the phone without fiddling with cables. Still, inductive charging could play a bigger role, thanks to electric vehicles becoming popular.
A year ago, we learned about WiTricity, a startup trying to pitch the wireless charging idea to carmakers. After it made no headways with its first partner Toyota, WiTricity tried to sell automotive inductive charging as an aftermarket solution. Witricity modified a Tesla Model 3 to include a power receiver and showed that charging your EV simply by parking it on top of a corresponding charging pad is super convenient.
WiTricity licensed its inductive charging technology from the German startup Wiferion, which is interesting considering that Tesla is rumored to acquire Wiferion. A Business Insider / Gruenderszene report shows that Wiferion shareholders agreed to sell the company to Tesla International BV, a Tesla subsidiary. Investors confirmed the sale, although they didn't mention the company's name.
Tesla has been working on its own inductive charging solutions for some time. During the March 1 Investor Day, Rebecca Tinucci, Tesla's head of global charging infrastructure, teased a wireless charging solution. No other information was offered at the time. It's likely that Tesla liked WiTricity's solution but decided to go directly to the source, hence the acquisition of Wiferion. The startup also offers inductive charging solutions for robots, which is interesting considering Tesla's efforts in this field.
With Elon Musk confident that Tesla will solve self-driving relatively soon, Tesla will put the robotaxi idea on the menu again. Autonomous vehicles are not truly autonomous if somebody needs to plug them in to charge. Tesla previously tried to solve this problem with a robotic charging arm. With inductive charging, things are a lot easier, as autonomous vehicles can be "trained" to park directly on top of the charging pad.
WiTricity's solution can charge the car at 11 kW, similar to a Level 2 AC charger. In the case of a Tesla Model 3, it takes six hours for a complete charge. With Tesla's record of thinking outside the box, I'm confident the EV maker will use the technology developed by Wiferion and turn it into a vastly superior solution. Then Wiferion could be sold again, similar to how Maxwell was dumped after Tesla used its dry battery electrode technology.
Inductive charging is not a new concept, being used for charging electric toothbrushes and other devices that spend most of their time in humid environments. Recently, wireless charging solutions for mobile phones have become widespread, and the auto industry has adopted them as an elegant way to charge the phone without fiddling with cables. Still, inductive charging could play a bigger role, thanks to electric vehicles becoming popular.
A year ago, we learned about WiTricity, a startup trying to pitch the wireless charging idea to carmakers. After it made no headways with its first partner Toyota, WiTricity tried to sell automotive inductive charging as an aftermarket solution. Witricity modified a Tesla Model 3 to include a power receiver and showed that charging your EV simply by parking it on top of a corresponding charging pad is super convenient.
WiTricity licensed its inductive charging technology from the German startup Wiferion, which is interesting considering that Tesla is rumored to acquire Wiferion. A Business Insider / Gruenderszene report shows that Wiferion shareholders agreed to sell the company to Tesla International BV, a Tesla subsidiary. Investors confirmed the sale, although they didn't mention the company's name.
Tesla has been working on its own inductive charging solutions for some time. During the March 1 Investor Day, Rebecca Tinucci, Tesla's head of global charging infrastructure, teased a wireless charging solution. No other information was offered at the time. It's likely that Tesla liked WiTricity's solution but decided to go directly to the source, hence the acquisition of Wiferion. The startup also offers inductive charging solutions for robots, which is interesting considering Tesla's efforts in this field.
With Elon Musk confident that Tesla will solve self-driving relatively soon, Tesla will put the robotaxi idea on the menu again. Autonomous vehicles are not truly autonomous if somebody needs to plug them in to charge. Tesla previously tried to solve this problem with a robotic charging arm. With inductive charging, things are a lot easier, as autonomous vehicles can be "trained" to park directly on top of the charging pad.
WiTricity's solution can charge the car at 11 kW, similar to a Level 2 AC charger. In the case of a Tesla Model 3, it takes six hours for a complete charge. With Tesla's record of thinking outside the box, I'm confident the EV maker will use the technology developed by Wiferion and turn it into a vastly superior solution. Then Wiferion could be sold again, similar to how Maxwell was dumped after Tesla used its dry battery electrode technology.
06-25-2023, 07:30 AM
#2037
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
I wish Tesla would focus on advancing battery tech and not play with wireless charging, which is stupidly inefficient.
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#1 STUNNA (06-27-2023)
06-26-2023, 09:30 AM
#2038
Ex-OEM King
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civicdrivr (06-26-2023)
06-27-2023, 09:07 AM
#2039
Race Director
Thread Starter
Tesla Full Self-Driving software is getting closer to the production phase, with the V11 being the last in the Beta stage. Elon Musk tweeted that the next major release would not be Beta anymore, although he didn't offer a timeline. Either way, we're in for a very long V11 Beta cycle before the V12 will be production-ready.
Tesla FSD Beta software is either a silent killer or a life savior, depending on whom you ask. While Tesla statistics show a constant improvement in safety, others love framing every car accident involving a Tesla as being caused by the FSD software. The truth is that the number of miles driven with FSD software increased exponentially as more people entered the program. This didn't cause a wave of car crashes, as FSD detractors warned.
With version 11 of the software, Tesla rewrote the code and unified the city driving stack (FSD) and the highway stack (Autopilot), taking things to a new level. FSD Beta testers noticed a marked improvement in how the software drives, with a more assertive, human-like behavior and fewer disengagements. These events prompt the driver to intervene, either because the FSD software made a mistake or couldn't handle a particular situation.
From the outside, it became clear that the development had accelerated in the past months, especially after Tesla issued the FSD Beta recall in February. Things were looking so good that in March, Elon Musk said it only needed"one more round of refinement" before becoming production-ready. This caused many speculations, with the optimists waiting for the next point release to deliver on this promise, while realists expected this to come with the next major version, V12. Since then, we've got V11.3.4, V11.3.5, and V11.3.6, and several V11.4 builds, which means the latter crowd won.
The most important thing is that Elon Musk now sees V12 as the first production build, sort of a V1.0. This means the FSD Beta ends with the last V11 build, and it's only Full Self-Driving from then on. That's not to say that it will arrive soon, as there's no ETA, and Elon Musk's predictions have proven overly optimistic in the past. V11.4.4 is only the tenth build of the V11 rewrite, and previous major software releases have taken 1.5-2 years to mature. Realistically, we could expect V12 to arrive by the end of next year at the earliest.
It's hard to tell what removing the Beta label means for Tesla's self-driving software. V12 will still need testing, so it should still have beta builds before they are deemed ready to be installed on customers' vehicles. Even before that, we could have a long line of V11 builds before the first V12 arrives. We still don't know how Dojo coming online in the following months will influence the development pace, but I think it will be significant.
Tesla FSD Beta software is either a silent killer or a life savior, depending on whom you ask. While Tesla statistics show a constant improvement in safety, others love framing every car accident involving a Tesla as being caused by the FSD software. The truth is that the number of miles driven with FSD software increased exponentially as more people entered the program. This didn't cause a wave of car crashes, as FSD detractors warned.
With version 11 of the software, Tesla rewrote the code and unified the city driving stack (FSD) and the highway stack (Autopilot), taking things to a new level. FSD Beta testers noticed a marked improvement in how the software drives, with a more assertive, human-like behavior and fewer disengagements. These events prompt the driver to intervene, either because the FSD software made a mistake or couldn't handle a particular situation.
From the outside, it became clear that the development had accelerated in the past months, especially after Tesla issued the FSD Beta recall in February. Things were looking so good that in March, Elon Musk said it only needed"one more round of refinement" before becoming production-ready. This caused many speculations, with the optimists waiting for the next point release to deliver on this promise, while realists expected this to come with the next major version, V12. Since then, we've got V11.3.4, V11.3.5, and V11.3.6, and several V11.4 builds, which means the latter crowd won.
Tesla FSD V12 drops the Beta label
FSD Beta V11.4 branch was a significant release, despite its number suggesting otherwise. Musk explained that this software version has so many new things that it should've been called V12. Still, Tesla reserved V12 for the time when FSD Beta would be "end-to-end AI, from images in to steering, brakes & acceleration out." This implied that the 12th iteration of the FSD Beta would also be a major overhaul, although this might not necessarily be the case. All the changes could be made server-side, with only minor changes on the client side (Tesla EVs).The most important thing is that Elon Musk now sees V12 as the first production build, sort of a V1.0. This means the FSD Beta ends with the last V11 build, and it's only Full Self-Driving from then on. That's not to say that it will arrive soon, as there's no ETA, and Elon Musk's predictions have proven overly optimistic in the past. V11.4.4 is only the tenth build of the V11 rewrite, and previous major software releases have taken 1.5-2 years to mature. Realistically, we could expect V12 to arrive by the end of next year at the earliest.
It's hard to tell what removing the Beta label means for Tesla's self-driving software. V12 will still need testing, so it should still have beta builds before they are deemed ready to be installed on customers' vehicles. Even before that, we could have a long line of V11 builds before the first V12 arrives. We still don't know how Dojo coming online in the following months will influence the development pace, but I think it will be significant.
06-27-2023, 11:32 AM
#2040
Sanest Florida Man