Strategic Vision: Total Quality Study (TQS) news **2010 Results (page 1)**
05-24-2004, 12:17 PM
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Strategic Vision: Total Quality Study (TQS) news **2010 Results (page 1)**
2004 Model Winners
Mid-Size Car Segment
Rank: Vehicle: TQI Score:
1 Acura TSX 888
2 Nissan Maxima 881
3 Volkswagen Passat 877
Others above segment average:
Hyundai XG 350
875
Volvo S40
874
Buick Regal
868
Honda Accord Sedan
866
Pontiac Grand Prix Sedan
864
Segment Average:
858
The Strategic Vision Award seems to be a bit confused and offers questionable results for many categories.
http://www.vision-inc.com/
Mid-Size Car Segment
Rank: Vehicle: TQI Score:
1 Acura TSX 888
2 Nissan Maxima 881
3 Volkswagen Passat 877
Others above segment average:
Hyundai XG 350
875
Volvo S40
874
Buick Regal
868
Honda Accord Sedan
866
Pontiac Grand Prix Sedan
864
Segment Average:
858
The Strategic Vision Award seems to be a bit confused and offers questionable results for many categories.
http://www.vision-inc.com/
05-24-2004, 02:05 PM
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Strategic Vision is a strange bunch.
First they have the TSX as a midsize NOT a entry-luxury. Then the competition in entry-luxury includes the Cadilac DeVille and Lincoln TownCar which have never been compared to the TL???????
And who in there right mind would recommend a Saturn Ion over the Civic. That car has gotten panned by every critic around for lousy quality. Most reviewers suggest it was better before the redesign.
First they have the TSX as a midsize NOT a entry-luxury. Then the competition in entry-luxury includes the Cadilac DeVille and Lincoln TownCar which have never been compared to the TL???????
And who in there right mind would recommend a Saturn Ion over the Civic. That car has gotten panned by every critic around for lousy quality. Most reviewers suggest it was better before the redesign.
05-24-2004, 02:45 PM
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It's getting hard to classify cars now, with all these cross-overs SUVs, luxury economy compacts (Maz3), uber-expensive zero-lux trucks (Hummer), etc. The TSX walks a fine line between whatever class the A4/325i/IS300/etc are in and the midsize sedan class. I think the stiff suspension and side-bolstering seats make it unappealing to anyone cross-shopping Accords, Buicks, etc. Then you have cars like the Saab 9-3 that have suspension almost as soft as an Accord, but are marketed as a sports sedan.
Anyway, Hyundai over the Accord? Pu-leeez..
Anyway, Hyundai over the Accord? Pu-leeez..
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05-25-2004, 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by domn
Is "Strategic Vison" associated with these guys?
http://www.123carlinks.com/acura_tsx.php
Is "Strategic Vison" associated with these guys?
http://www.123carlinks.com/acura_tsx.php
Nice that they managed to mess up the engine specs...twice!!!
First they said it was a 3.2 V6 which is an easy mistake considering the TL.
But when they mentioned a 18 valve 3.4 V6 w/ 200 hp that was insulting! That's the specs for the GM's piece of shit pushrod engine. My 93 Civic had a more advanced engine than that!
06-05-2004, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 98AccordEx
Is "Strategic Vison" associated with these guys?
http://www.123carlinks.com/acura_tsx.php
(...) My 93 Civic had a more advanced engine than that!
http://www.123carlinks.com/acura_tsx.php
(...) My 93 Civic had a more advanced engine than that!
Hey guys -- Don't knock them.
This is the only place I've found that's willing to quote a 2004 Acura CL.
(Try it. :-)
06-05-2004, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jginnane
Hey guys -- Don't knock them.
This is the only place I've found that's willing to quote a 2004 Acura CL.
(Try it. :-)
This is the only place I've found that's willing to quote a 2004 Acura CL.
(Try it. :-)
So they are the ones selling 2004 CL's??? Very interesting. After looking at the Acura monthly sales data I was wondering how the CL was still selling? What's the deal? Somehow...someone has sold 256 CL's to date this year? 24 were sold in May? Would you buy a 2003 car in May of 2004? Would a dealer leave a car on his lot for that long? I think these guys are passing them off as 2004 model cars.
06-05-2004, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 98AccordEx
So they are the ones selling 2004 CL's??? Very interesting. After looking at the Acura monthly sales data I was wondering how the CL was still selling?
>>> Would you buy a 2003 car in May of 2004? Would a dealer leave a car on his lot for that long?
Stupider things have happened. When we were cutting down our short list, the VW Passat we were considering vs. the TSX had changed options in "week 40" of the model year, and the package at the trim level we wanted included OnStar. We wouldn't take OnStar even if you paid us, so the dealer offered some stale "new-to-you" cars from inventory without OnStar.
However, he didn't want to sell at wholesale price (see galves.com) reflecting that first-year depreciation. And we didn't want to buy a car that'd been sitting in one position on his lot for 6+ months, flatspotting the tires.
06-06-2004, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 98AccordEx
Strategic Vision is a strange bunch.
First they have the TSX as a midsize NOT a entry-luxury. Then the competition in entry-luxury includes the Cadilac DeVille and Lincoln TownCar which have never been compared to the TL???????
And who in there right mind would recommend a Saturn Ion over the Civic. That car has gotten panned by every critic around for lousy quality. Most reviewers suggest it was better before the redesign.
First they have the TSX as a midsize NOT a entry-luxury. Then the competition in entry-luxury includes the Cadilac DeVille and Lincoln TownCar which have never been compared to the TL???????
And who in there right mind would recommend a Saturn Ion over the Civic. That car has gotten panned by every critic around for lousy quality. Most reviewers suggest it was better before the redesign.
I do agree with Strategic Visions findings. For 25-27k, there is no better family car than the TSX.
06-13-2004, 10:25 PM
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Strategic Vision is pretty well respected in the auto industry. They're not quite JD Power, but you'll see them quoted a lot in articles in Automotive News, AutoWeek, and the Detroit News. I'd trust their opinion. 
06-14-2004, 06:07 AM
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The only opinion that really matters is the one in your head - what do YOU think of the car?
Why anyone would take their decision based on someone else's opinion is beyond me.
Why anyone would take their decision based on someone else's opinion is beyond me.
06-14-2004, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by biker
The only opinion that really matters is the one in your head - what do YOU think of the car?
Why anyone would take their decision based on someone else's opinion is beyond me.
Why anyone would take their decision based on someone else's opinion is beyond me.
Good point biker.
06-14-2004, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by biker
The only opinion that really matters is the one in your head - what do YOU think of the car?
Why anyone would take their decision based on someone else's opinion is beyond me.
Why anyone would take their decision based on someone else's opinion is beyond me.
Biker, others opinions do matter otherwise you wouldn't be on this site. They also matter for resale value whic is reflective of the concensus value of all consumers.
06-19-2006, 03:39 PM
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Total Quality Study by Strategic Vision
Detroit Hurt in “Total Quality” Study - - by Paul A. Eisenstein - - SOurce: The Car Connection
Detroit automakers fielded winners in eight of 20 different product segments in the latest Total Quality Study, General Motors matching that perennial benchmark of quality, Toyota.
Yet the latest findings by the California-based research firm, Strategic Vision, should give pause to domestic automakers struggling to regain ground from their import rivals. With one mainstream exception, the American victories were limited to low-volume niches. Worse for Detroit , Asian makers showed surprising strength in the light-truck segments long dominated by the domestics.
A particularly significant indication of this turnaround can be found in the minivan category, noted Dan Gorrell, author of the Total Quality Study, or TQS. Honda's Odyssey won for the fifth year in a row, "in a segment Chrysler used to always win."
The simple fact, added Gorrell, is that the "Japanese are attacking the domestics in their truck stronghold," which doesn't bode well for American manufacturers heavily dependent on pickups, SUVs, and minivans for the bulk of their profits.
On the flip side, the study suggests that the American brands scan win over motorists with innovative, high-quality products, such as the reborn Dodge Charger, and Saturn's Vue crossover, both segment winners. Dodge also scored with its Magnum, which stands on its head the conventional industry wisdom that station wagons don't click with consumers.
The Charger and Magnum, like the sports-car segment winner Chevrolet Corvette Coupe, and Chevy's HHR, play in relatively low-volume niches. The one strong Detroit entry into a mainstream segment came from Ford - its only segment winner, in fact. The Fusion sedan, Gorrell pointed out, goes up against some of the most compelling imports, such as Honda's Civic.
"For Detroit to generate a winner in this tough segment," said Gorrell, "shows…it is headed in the right direction."
Motor City executives have, in fact, made a high priority out of regaining ground in big passenger-car segments they effectively ceded to the Japanese years ago. And there are other signs of success. Though it did not capture a segment, Gorrell declared Chrysler's boldly designed 300 sedan "a winner."
Unfortunately, some other recent Detroit entries didn't fare all that well, including the recently redesigned Chevy Impala, the Ford Five Hundred, as well as the new Buick Lucerne, a sedan upon which GM's Buick division has placed high hopes.
In the traditional truck segments, Detroit had only one winner, Chevrolet's big 2500/3500 heavy-duty pickup. Yet even though domestics, including Chevy, dominate the sales charts in the pickup segment, GM's full-size trucks scored below average in the TQS, which is designed to measure factors including "things gone wrong" with a vehicle, as well as factors that please consumers - what might be described as "things gone right."
Gorrell cautioned that his study did not include a string of well-reviewed, recent truck entries from GM, including its redesigned GMC Yukon and Cadillac Escalade SUVs. There is reason to believe that they could fare better in the 2007 Total Quality Study.
Some findings in the '06 TQS echo the latest Initial Quality Study from J.D. Power & Associates, the best-known of the automotive market research firms. Hyundai showed significant strength in Strategic Vision's research, though it didn't match its third-place finish in the IQS.
One area where the two studies clash is over the subject of BMW. Power's data showed the popular German marque down in the bottom third of 37 brands. Strategic Vision, on the other hand, reported BMW second only to Lexus, Toyota 's top-rated luxury brand. The Power analysis, said Gorrell, was "quite puzzling," and seemed to over-emphasize admittedly controversial issues, such as the German maker's challenging iDrive control system.
The TQS also found that another German brand, troubled Volkswagen, has "started to regain its mojo." VW scored above industry average in the study, but below average in Power's IQS.
The challenge for brands like VW is similar to that facing Detroit , concluded Gorrell, "regaining the trust of the American buyer, which has been lost over (the) years."
Category winners and ratings
Small Car Honda Civic 871
Small Multi-Function (MFV) Chevrolet HHR 865
Medium Car Ford Fusion 884
Large Car Dodge Charger 906
Near-Luxury Car Lexus IS 919
Luxury Car BMW 7-Series 928
Small Specialty less than $25,000 Mini Cooper 909
Small Specialty greater than $25,000 Chevrolet Corvette(a) 908
Convertible less than $30,000 Mini Cooper Convertible(a) 896
Convertible greater than $30,000 Chevrolet Corvette 912
Minivan Honda Odyssey(a) 876
Small SUV Saturn Vue 870
Medium Crossover Dodge Magnum 880
Medium SUV Toyota 4Runner 878
Large SUV Nissan Armada(a) 907
Near-Luxury SUV Lexus RX 350/400h 904
Luxury SUV Land Rover Range Rover Sport 910
Compact Pickup Toyota Tacoma(a) 849
Large Pickup Honda Ridgeline 885
Heavy Duty Pickup Chevrolet Silverado 2500/3500 870
Yet the latest findings by the California-based research firm, Strategic Vision, should give pause to domestic automakers struggling to regain ground from their import rivals. With one mainstream exception, the American victories were limited to low-volume niches. Worse for Detroit , Asian makers showed surprising strength in the light-truck segments long dominated by the domestics.
A particularly significant indication of this turnaround can be found in the minivan category, noted Dan Gorrell, author of the Total Quality Study, or TQS. Honda's Odyssey won for the fifth year in a row, "in a segment Chrysler used to always win."
The simple fact, added Gorrell, is that the "Japanese are attacking the domestics in their truck stronghold," which doesn't bode well for American manufacturers heavily dependent on pickups, SUVs, and minivans for the bulk of their profits.
On the flip side, the study suggests that the American brands scan win over motorists with innovative, high-quality products, such as the reborn Dodge Charger, and Saturn's Vue crossover, both segment winners. Dodge also scored with its Magnum, which stands on its head the conventional industry wisdom that station wagons don't click with consumers.
The Charger and Magnum, like the sports-car segment winner Chevrolet Corvette Coupe, and Chevy's HHR, play in relatively low-volume niches. The one strong Detroit entry into a mainstream segment came from Ford - its only segment winner, in fact. The Fusion sedan, Gorrell pointed out, goes up against some of the most compelling imports, such as Honda's Civic.
"For Detroit to generate a winner in this tough segment," said Gorrell, "shows…it is headed in the right direction."
Motor City executives have, in fact, made a high priority out of regaining ground in big passenger-car segments they effectively ceded to the Japanese years ago. And there are other signs of success. Though it did not capture a segment, Gorrell declared Chrysler's boldly designed 300 sedan "a winner."
Unfortunately, some other recent Detroit entries didn't fare all that well, including the recently redesigned Chevy Impala, the Ford Five Hundred, as well as the new Buick Lucerne, a sedan upon which GM's Buick division has placed high hopes.
In the traditional truck segments, Detroit had only one winner, Chevrolet's big 2500/3500 heavy-duty pickup. Yet even though domestics, including Chevy, dominate the sales charts in the pickup segment, GM's full-size trucks scored below average in the TQS, which is designed to measure factors including "things gone wrong" with a vehicle, as well as factors that please consumers - what might be described as "things gone right."
Gorrell cautioned that his study did not include a string of well-reviewed, recent truck entries from GM, including its redesigned GMC Yukon and Cadillac Escalade SUVs. There is reason to believe that they could fare better in the 2007 Total Quality Study.
Some findings in the '06 TQS echo the latest Initial Quality Study from J.D. Power & Associates, the best-known of the automotive market research firms. Hyundai showed significant strength in Strategic Vision's research, though it didn't match its third-place finish in the IQS.
One area where the two studies clash is over the subject of BMW. Power's data showed the popular German marque down in the bottom third of 37 brands. Strategic Vision, on the other hand, reported BMW second only to Lexus, Toyota 's top-rated luxury brand. The Power analysis, said Gorrell, was "quite puzzling," and seemed to over-emphasize admittedly controversial issues, such as the German maker's challenging iDrive control system.
The TQS also found that another German brand, troubled Volkswagen, has "started to regain its mojo." VW scored above industry average in the study, but below average in Power's IQS.
The challenge for brands like VW is similar to that facing Detroit , concluded Gorrell, "regaining the trust of the American buyer, which has been lost over (the) years."
Category winners and ratings
Small Car Honda Civic 871
Small Multi-Function (MFV) Chevrolet HHR 865
Medium Car Ford Fusion 884
Large Car Dodge Charger 906
Near-Luxury Car Lexus IS 919
Luxury Car BMW 7-Series 928
Small Specialty less than $25,000 Mini Cooper 909
Small Specialty greater than $25,000 Chevrolet Corvette(a) 908
Convertible less than $30,000 Mini Cooper Convertible(a) 896
Convertible greater than $30,000 Chevrolet Corvette 912
Minivan Honda Odyssey(a) 876
Small SUV Saturn Vue 870
Medium Crossover Dodge Magnum 880
Medium SUV Toyota 4Runner 878
Large SUV Nissan Armada(a) 907
Near-Luxury SUV Lexus RX 350/400h 904
Luxury SUV Land Rover Range Rover Sport 910
Compact Pickup Toyota Tacoma(a) 849
Large Pickup Honda Ridgeline 885
Heavy Duty Pickup Chevrolet Silverado 2500/3500 870
11-01-2006, 05:25 PM
#20
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BMW, Mini lead in 2006 Strategic Vision Total Value Index Survey
BMW CCA News
October 30, 2006
The BMW 3 Series is the highest rated near-luxury vehicle in the Strategic Vision Total Value Index Survey.
BMW and Mini are on top again in the annual Strategic Vision Total Value Index Survey. TVI is like J.D. Power only different: It’s a measure of, well, the total value of a car, and not just the financial value. Strategic Vision says TVI measures reliability, warranty, anticipated resale value, durability, and innovation. While BMW led, encouraging results could be found for fans of Hyundai (which did better than Toyota) and GM (which clearly has a pulse after all). Honda had the highest full-line score (BMW not, for instance, selling minivans or pickups). For Ford and Chrysler, it was a survey best forgotten.
BMW and Mini (the car company not the model) were the leading brands. The 3 Series was top-ranked in the near luxury category after losing last year to the Lexus IS (which dropped to third behind BMW and the Acura TSX), while Mini Cooper won in the small specialty under-$25,000 segment and Mini Cooper Convertible won in the convertibles under $30,00 segment. In the luxury vehicle segment, the 7 Series (the segment winner last year) and 5 Series were No. 4 and No. 5 with 775 and 771 points, just behind the trio tied for first: Lexus LS 430 with 790, and Audi A8 and Acura RL with 779. (Note that where J.D. Power declares a winner based on a one-point margin, Strategic Vision recognizes margins of error and sometimes awards ties when differences are small.)
In the coupes-over-$25,000, the 3 Series coupe was third behind the Corvette and Mercedes-Benz CL-Class coupe, 798-790-784, yet ahead of the Porsche 911 and Porsche Cayman. In the convertibles-over-$30,000 category, the Z4 was second behind the Corvette, 789 points to 778. But the 6 Series Convertible and 3 Series Convertible were N0. 11 and No. 12 in the same category, topping only the Mercedes-Benz CLK Cabriolet. The 5-Series wagon was fifth (and just below the segment average) in luxury multi-function. (The 3 Series wagon wasn’t rated.)
According to Strategic Vision, “BMW and MINI buyers had the highest levels of believed resale value, validated by outside sources, and BMW’s Ultimate Service [four years, all maintenance] program differentiates it from other luxury brands.” Between Hyundai and Kia, Korea Inc. had four top-ranked cars among the 23 categories. GM had four (three Chrevolet, one Saturn); Honda (plus one Acura) and Nissan, three each; Audi and Lexus, two each. The lone Mercedes-Benz winner was the GL-Class high-end SUV. Chrysler and Ford were shut out. To keep its successes going, Strategic Vision says, the Korean companies need to address “foundational issues of expected reliability and durability.”
Here are the top vehicles in each segment. Click below for releases from Strategic Vision and BMW.
1 BMW 3-Series Sedan 807
2 Acura TSX 804
3 Lexus IS 250/350 800
4 Acura TL 787
5 Audi A4/S4 Sedan 781
6 Toyota Avalon 775
7 Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedan 769
8 Lincoln Zephyr 767
9 Volvo S40 764
Rank Vehicle TVI Score
1 Audi A4/S4 Avant 787
2 Audi A3 774
3 Mercedes-Benz R-Class 767
Segment Average: 760
4 BMW 5-Series Wagon 748
5 Mercedes-Benz E-Class Wagon 734
6 Volvo XC70 730
7 Volvo V70 Wagon 705
Rank Vehicle TVI Score
1 Lexus LS 430 780
1 Audi A8 Sedan 779
1 Acura RL 779
4 BMW 7-Series Sedan 775
5 BMW 5-Series Sedan 771
6 Lexus GS 300/400 764
Segment Average: 762
7 Infiniti M35/M45 762
8 Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedan 759
9 Volvo S80 Sedan 756
10 Audi A6 Sedan 754
11 Jaguar XJ 750
12 Mercedes-Benz S-Class Sedan 743
13 Jaguar S-Type 741
14 Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class Sedan 724
Luxury SUV Segment
Rank Vehicle TVI Score
1 Mercedes-Benz GL-Class 782
2 Lexus GX 470 775
3 Mercedes-Benz ML-Class 759
4 Infiniti QX56 752
5 BMW X5 751
Segment Average: 733
6 Hummer H2 718
7 Land Rover Range Rover Sport 712
8 Saab 9-7X 706
9 Cadillac Escalade 705
10 Lincoln Navigator 696
11 Land Rover Range Rover 684
Scores Not Available For:
Lexus LX 470
Porsche Cayenne
Toyota Land Cruiser
October 30, 2006
The BMW 3 Series is the highest rated near-luxury vehicle in the Strategic Vision Total Value Index Survey.
BMW and Mini are on top again in the annual Strategic Vision Total Value Index Survey. TVI is like J.D. Power only different: It’s a measure of, well, the total value of a car, and not just the financial value. Strategic Vision says TVI measures reliability, warranty, anticipated resale value, durability, and innovation. While BMW led, encouraging results could be found for fans of Hyundai (which did better than Toyota) and GM (which clearly has a pulse after all). Honda had the highest full-line score (BMW not, for instance, selling minivans or pickups). For Ford and Chrysler, it was a survey best forgotten.
BMW and Mini (the car company not the model) were the leading brands. The 3 Series was top-ranked in the near luxury category after losing last year to the Lexus IS (which dropped to third behind BMW and the Acura TSX), while Mini Cooper won in the small specialty under-$25,000 segment and Mini Cooper Convertible won in the convertibles under $30,00 segment. In the luxury vehicle segment, the 7 Series (the segment winner last year) and 5 Series were No. 4 and No. 5 with 775 and 771 points, just behind the trio tied for first: Lexus LS 430 with 790, and Audi A8 and Acura RL with 779. (Note that where J.D. Power declares a winner based on a one-point margin, Strategic Vision recognizes margins of error and sometimes awards ties when differences are small.)
In the coupes-over-$25,000, the 3 Series coupe was third behind the Corvette and Mercedes-Benz CL-Class coupe, 798-790-784, yet ahead of the Porsche 911 and Porsche Cayman. In the convertibles-over-$30,000 category, the Z4 was second behind the Corvette, 789 points to 778. But the 6 Series Convertible and 3 Series Convertible were N0. 11 and No. 12 in the same category, topping only the Mercedes-Benz CLK Cabriolet. The 5-Series wagon was fifth (and just below the segment average) in luxury multi-function. (The 3 Series wagon wasn’t rated.)
According to Strategic Vision, “BMW and MINI buyers had the highest levels of believed resale value, validated by outside sources, and BMW’s Ultimate Service [four years, all maintenance] program differentiates it from other luxury brands.” Between Hyundai and Kia, Korea Inc. had four top-ranked cars among the 23 categories. GM had four (three Chrevolet, one Saturn); Honda (plus one Acura) and Nissan, three each; Audi and Lexus, two each. The lone Mercedes-Benz winner was the GL-Class high-end SUV. Chrysler and Ford were shut out. To keep its successes going, Strategic Vision says, the Korean companies need to address “foundational issues of expected reliability and durability.”
Here are the top vehicles in each segment. Click below for releases from Strategic Vision and BMW.
1 BMW 3-Series Sedan 807
2 Acura TSX 804
3 Lexus IS 250/350 800
4 Acura TL 787
5 Audi A4/S4 Sedan 781
6 Toyota Avalon 775
7 Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedan 769
8 Lincoln Zephyr 767
9 Volvo S40 764
Rank Vehicle TVI Score
1 Audi A4/S4 Avant 787
2 Audi A3 774
3 Mercedes-Benz R-Class 767
Segment Average: 760
4 BMW 5-Series Wagon 748
5 Mercedes-Benz E-Class Wagon 734
6 Volvo XC70 730
7 Volvo V70 Wagon 705
Rank Vehicle TVI Score
1 Lexus LS 430 780
1 Audi A8 Sedan 779
1 Acura RL 779
4 BMW 7-Series Sedan 775
5 BMW 5-Series Sedan 771
6 Lexus GS 300/400 764
Segment Average: 762
7 Infiniti M35/M45 762
8 Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedan 759
9 Volvo S80 Sedan 756
10 Audi A6 Sedan 754
11 Jaguar XJ 750
12 Mercedes-Benz S-Class Sedan 743
13 Jaguar S-Type 741
14 Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class Sedan 724
Luxury SUV Segment
Rank Vehicle TVI Score
1 Mercedes-Benz GL-Class 782
2 Lexus GX 470 775
3 Mercedes-Benz ML-Class 759
4 Infiniti QX56 752
5 BMW X5 751
Segment Average: 733
6 Hummer H2 718
7 Land Rover Range Rover Sport 712
8 Saab 9-7X 706
9 Cadillac Escalade 705
10 Lincoln Navigator 696
11 Land Rover Range Rover 684
Scores Not Available For:
Lexus LX 470
Porsche Cayenne
Toyota Land Cruiser
11-01-2006, 05:28 PM
#21
Pro
Strategic Vision release
October 9, 2006
BMW on top, Hyundai Leads Toyota, GM poised for success
San Diego – Hyundai leads over many brands, including Toyota. GM proves that Asian and European makers are not out of reach. BMW and MINI top all brands as Total Value leaders. These are a few of the results from Strategic Vision’s Total Value Index (TVI), which factors economic issues against the total new vehicle ownership experience. The San Diego-based research firm announced today the winners of its Total Value Awards, which reflect that true value is about much more than the cheapest deal. Reliability, a solid warranty, strong anticipated resale value, durability, and innovation are all part of the definition of “total value.”
Hyundai and Kia continue to produce nicely styled, high quality products, backed by solid warranties, and the results are four leaders in Total Value for 2006. The new Kia Optima and Hyundai Azera were Total Value leaders in their respective car segments, and the Kia Sedona tops the Honda Odyssey in the minivan category. The Hyundai Tucson was also at the top of Small Sport Utilities (tied with the Saturn Vue). The challenge for both Hyundai and Kia remains consideration on buyers shopping lists, and success rests on communicating foundational issues of expected reliability and durability along with clear cues of quality.
Toyota remains solid with several models performing relatively well in Total Value and three leaders in 2006 from its Scion and Lexus brands. The Scion brand continues strongly, with the xB proving that vehicles can continue to deliver value throughout their production cycle; Total Value is not exclusively the domain of new releases.
GM was the top domestic corporation, and presented four 2006 Total Value winners. The Chevrolet Corvette Coupe and Convertible, Saturn Vue, and Chevrolet Silverado 2500/3500 lead in Total Value in their respective segments. With the introduction of a five year 100,000-mile warranty, GM is poised for significant gain if the Total Value message is clearly recognized and communicated for individual models. "GM’s new warranty will bring new prospective buyers to the brand, who otherwise might have felt the quality, durability and value was missing," said Alexander Edwards, president of Strategic Vision automotive research group. “If GM can communicate the right quality cues and value in current and future vehicles, then they will be poised for success in the near future."
BMW and MINI lead all brands in Total Value for 2006. Perennial value leader MINI Cooper leads its segment for the fifth year running, and was the overall Total Value winner among all vehicles and segments. With the 3-Series and Cooper Convertible leading Total Value in their segments, BMW and MINI demonstrate that winning requires a formula for success. BMW and MINI buyers had the highest levels of believed resale value, validated by outside sources, and BMW’s Ultimate Service program differentiates it from other luxury brands.
Honda is the top full-line corporation in Total Value, with one of the highest expected reliability scores among its owners and each Honda model excelling in that area. Honda Civic, Accord Coupe, and Pilot lead Total Value in their respective segments. The Honda Ridgeline leads in its segment, proving that delivering superior product experience, innovative features and standard equipment can overcome the hurdle of premium pricing to deliver total value.
Nissan had three Total Value leaders, including the Xterra and Armada. It also achieved a milestone with the Titan replacing the Ford F-150 as the Total Value winner in full-size pickups. Innovation and the level of standard equipment helped nudge Titan ahead in a tightly contested segment.
“The calculation of Total Value clearly incorporates explicit statements that owners make about value, but those statements do not alone provide sufficient differentiation to give us the diagnostic power we want or to be able to herald one brand or vehicle as the leader in a segment,” says Strategic Vision Founder and CEO Darrel Edwards, Ph.D. “By incorporating the importance of the variables that make up the experience and the economic factors which impact the perception of value, we find convergent, stable indices of True Value,”
“Total Value is absolutely critical now in the US market. It is even important for brands with strong reputations, but is critical for everyone else. Total Value is more than price paid or deal, and it is more than initial quality (TGW) divided by price - which some profess. Total Value encompasses the complete ownership experience with emotional components and priorities. Not all things are equal. Building Total Value is strongly related to brand reputation. It reinforces the notion of a ‘smart buy.’ In a mature market where consumers have a variety of excellent choices, yet concern for fuel economy and getting the most for their money, Total Value influences the purchase,” concluded Alexander Edwards, President of Strategic Vision, Automotive Group.
The Total Value Study surveyed over 64,000 new vehicle buyers who purchased their vehicles between October 2005 and March 2006, asking an extensive array of questions about their first 90 days of ownership.
Strategic Vision is a research-based consultancy with thirty years of experience in understanding consumer and constituent decision-making systems for a variety of clients, including most automotive manufacturers, Coca-Cola, American Airlines, and Procter & Gamble. Its unique expertise is in identifying consumers’ motivational hierarchies, including the values and emotions that drive perceptions and behaviors.
Segment Winner(s) Score
Small Car Honda Civic 801
Small Multi-Function Scion xB 781
Medium Car Kia Optima 799
Medium Multi-Function Mazda 6 Wagon 767
Large Car Hyundai Azera 808
Near Luxury Car BMW 3-Series Sedan 807
Luxury Car Lexus LS 430 780
Audi A8 Sedan 779
Acura RL 779
Luxury Multi-Function Audi A4/S4 Avant 787
Small Specialty <$25,000 Mini Cooper* 794
Small Specialty >$25,000 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe 798
Mid-Specialty Car Honda Accord Coupe* 804
Convertibles <$30,000 Mini Cooper Convertible 813
Convertibles Over $30,000 Chevrolet Corvette Convertible 789
Minivan Kia Sedona 758
Small SUV Saturn VUE 758
Hyundai Tucson 757
Medium SUV Nissan Xterra 735
Medium Crossover Honda Pilot 767
Large SUV Nissan Armada 724
Near Luxury SUV Lexus RX 330/400H* 771
Luxury SUV Mercedes-Benz GL-Class 782
Compact Pickup Honda Ridgeline 739
Full-Size Pickup Nissan Titan 707
Heavy Duty Pickup Chevrolet Silverado 2500/3500 686
October 9, 2006
BMW on top, Hyundai Leads Toyota, GM poised for success
San Diego – Hyundai leads over many brands, including Toyota. GM proves that Asian and European makers are not out of reach. BMW and MINI top all brands as Total Value leaders. These are a few of the results from Strategic Vision’s Total Value Index (TVI), which factors economic issues against the total new vehicle ownership experience. The San Diego-based research firm announced today the winners of its Total Value Awards, which reflect that true value is about much more than the cheapest deal. Reliability, a solid warranty, strong anticipated resale value, durability, and innovation are all part of the definition of “total value.”
Hyundai and Kia continue to produce nicely styled, high quality products, backed by solid warranties, and the results are four leaders in Total Value for 2006. The new Kia Optima and Hyundai Azera were Total Value leaders in their respective car segments, and the Kia Sedona tops the Honda Odyssey in the minivan category. The Hyundai Tucson was also at the top of Small Sport Utilities (tied with the Saturn Vue). The challenge for both Hyundai and Kia remains consideration on buyers shopping lists, and success rests on communicating foundational issues of expected reliability and durability along with clear cues of quality.
Toyota remains solid with several models performing relatively well in Total Value and three leaders in 2006 from its Scion and Lexus brands. The Scion brand continues strongly, with the xB proving that vehicles can continue to deliver value throughout their production cycle; Total Value is not exclusively the domain of new releases.
GM was the top domestic corporation, and presented four 2006 Total Value winners. The Chevrolet Corvette Coupe and Convertible, Saturn Vue, and Chevrolet Silverado 2500/3500 lead in Total Value in their respective segments. With the introduction of a five year 100,000-mile warranty, GM is poised for significant gain if the Total Value message is clearly recognized and communicated for individual models. "GM’s new warranty will bring new prospective buyers to the brand, who otherwise might have felt the quality, durability and value was missing," said Alexander Edwards, president of Strategic Vision automotive research group. “If GM can communicate the right quality cues and value in current and future vehicles, then they will be poised for success in the near future."
BMW and MINI lead all brands in Total Value for 2006. Perennial value leader MINI Cooper leads its segment for the fifth year running, and was the overall Total Value winner among all vehicles and segments. With the 3-Series and Cooper Convertible leading Total Value in their segments, BMW and MINI demonstrate that winning requires a formula for success. BMW and MINI buyers had the highest levels of believed resale value, validated by outside sources, and BMW’s Ultimate Service program differentiates it from other luxury brands.
Honda is the top full-line corporation in Total Value, with one of the highest expected reliability scores among its owners and each Honda model excelling in that area. Honda Civic, Accord Coupe, and Pilot lead Total Value in their respective segments. The Honda Ridgeline leads in its segment, proving that delivering superior product experience, innovative features and standard equipment can overcome the hurdle of premium pricing to deliver total value.
Nissan had three Total Value leaders, including the Xterra and Armada. It also achieved a milestone with the Titan replacing the Ford F-150 as the Total Value winner in full-size pickups. Innovation and the level of standard equipment helped nudge Titan ahead in a tightly contested segment.
“The calculation of Total Value clearly incorporates explicit statements that owners make about value, but those statements do not alone provide sufficient differentiation to give us the diagnostic power we want or to be able to herald one brand or vehicle as the leader in a segment,” says Strategic Vision Founder and CEO Darrel Edwards, Ph.D. “By incorporating the importance of the variables that make up the experience and the economic factors which impact the perception of value, we find convergent, stable indices of True Value,”
“Total Value is absolutely critical now in the US market. It is even important for brands with strong reputations, but is critical for everyone else. Total Value is more than price paid or deal, and it is more than initial quality (TGW) divided by price - which some profess. Total Value encompasses the complete ownership experience with emotional components and priorities. Not all things are equal. Building Total Value is strongly related to brand reputation. It reinforces the notion of a ‘smart buy.’ In a mature market where consumers have a variety of excellent choices, yet concern for fuel economy and getting the most for their money, Total Value influences the purchase,” concluded Alexander Edwards, President of Strategic Vision, Automotive Group.
The Total Value Study surveyed over 64,000 new vehicle buyers who purchased their vehicles between October 2005 and March 2006, asking an extensive array of questions about their first 90 days of ownership.
Strategic Vision is a research-based consultancy with thirty years of experience in understanding consumer and constituent decision-making systems for a variety of clients, including most automotive manufacturers, Coca-Cola, American Airlines, and Procter & Gamble. Its unique expertise is in identifying consumers’ motivational hierarchies, including the values and emotions that drive perceptions and behaviors.
Segment Winner(s) Score
Small Car Honda Civic 801
Small Multi-Function Scion xB 781
Medium Car Kia Optima 799
Medium Multi-Function Mazda 6 Wagon 767
Large Car Hyundai Azera 808
Near Luxury Car BMW 3-Series Sedan 807
Luxury Car Lexus LS 430 780
Audi A8 Sedan 779
Acura RL 779
Luxury Multi-Function Audi A4/S4 Avant 787
Small Specialty <$25,000 Mini Cooper* 794
Small Specialty >$25,000 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe 798
Mid-Specialty Car Honda Accord Coupe* 804
Convertibles <$30,000 Mini Cooper Convertible 813
Convertibles Over $30,000 Chevrolet Corvette Convertible 789
Minivan Kia Sedona 758
Small SUV Saturn VUE 758
Hyundai Tucson 757
Medium SUV Nissan Xterra 735
Medium Crossover Honda Pilot 767
Large SUV Nissan Armada 724
Near Luxury SUV Lexus RX 330/400H* 771
Luxury SUV Mercedes-Benz GL-Class 782
Compact Pickup Honda Ridgeline 739
Full-Size Pickup Nissan Titan 707
Heavy Duty Pickup Chevrolet Silverado 2500/3500 686
06-10-2007, 05:22 PM
#22
hail to the victors
2007 Strategic Vision Total Quality Awards
http://www.strategicvision.com/press_release.php?pr=27
San Diego – For the first time ever, the Hyundai brand has produced the most leaders on Strategic Vision’s Total Quality Index™ (TQI), leading in three segments. The San-Diego-based research firm today announced 2007 results, based on the ratings of new vehicle owners in 19 product segments.
The only other brand to produce three leaders was Nissan. Hyundai Motors had a total of five leaders (the Kia brand earning two more), Ford Motor and BMW Group each earned three (one for BMW, two for Mini); GM, Honda, and Mercedes each earned two with Dodge, Lexus and Volkswagen each earning one. BMW repeated as the top scoring brand, the eighth time in nine years, and Volkswagen of America kept its claim as the best full-line corporation.
The Total Quality Index™ is the premier measure of new vehicle owner satisfaction. It asks buyers to rate all aspects of the ownership experience, from buying and owning to driving. Although Toyota improved overall with their TQI scores, the most significant change in 2007 is the lack of any Toyota brand segment leaders. Examining the number of problems or Things-Gone-Wrong per vehicle (the traditional definition of quality), Toyota and Lexus are still among the best. However, Toyota’s lead in this narrower definition of quality is now shared with other brands like Honda, Hyundai, Infiniti and domestic brands such as Ford. For example, the Ford Expedition EL enjoyed a very large lead and had fewest problems in the segment. Expedition EL owners recognized innovative changes, which are key to future domestic success.
“With automotive corporations now doing a terrific job in providing vehicles with minimal problems, the Cues of Quality (those product attributes that signal quality and create customer Trust) have a greater impact on the purchase decision. Perceived Quality has the power to change customer’s perceptions of a vehicle from being ‘interesting’ to eventually considered and purchased,” says Alexander Edwards, Strategic Vision President. “In the past, one could count the number of problems per vehicle; but for automotive customers today and tomorrow, a comprehensive and integrated perception of the ownership experience will be what drives the decision making process.”
“Even though Hyundai is often overlooked by the US customer, Hyundai’s success in 2007 is not surprising given its’ current products and press in leadership that is looking to the near and distant future with new designs from styling to powertrain,” reports Dr. Darrel Edwards, Founder and CEO of Strategic Vision.
Long time leader Honda Odyssey (five years in a row) has now been replaced by the Hyundai Entourage, Kia Sedona and Nissan Quest in a three-way tie for this segment. The Ford F-150 returns to a leadership position in this most tightly contested segment, tied with the Nissan Titan.
Buyers rated the following vehicles tops in their segments:
San Diego – For the first time ever, the Hyundai brand has produced the most leaders on Strategic Vision’s Total Quality Index™ (TQI), leading in three segments. The San-Diego-based research firm today announced 2007 results, based on the ratings of new vehicle owners in 19 product segments.
The only other brand to produce three leaders was Nissan. Hyundai Motors had a total of five leaders (the Kia brand earning two more), Ford Motor and BMW Group each earned three (one for BMW, two for Mini); GM, Honda, and Mercedes each earned two with Dodge, Lexus and Volkswagen each earning one. BMW repeated as the top scoring brand, the eighth time in nine years, and Volkswagen of America kept its claim as the best full-line corporation.
The Total Quality Index™ is the premier measure of new vehicle owner satisfaction. It asks buyers to rate all aspects of the ownership experience, from buying and owning to driving. Although Toyota improved overall with their TQI scores, the most significant change in 2007 is the lack of any Toyota brand segment leaders. Examining the number of problems or Things-Gone-Wrong per vehicle (the traditional definition of quality), Toyota and Lexus are still among the best. However, Toyota’s lead in this narrower definition of quality is now shared with other brands like Honda, Hyundai, Infiniti and domestic brands such as Ford. For example, the Ford Expedition EL enjoyed a very large lead and had fewest problems in the segment. Expedition EL owners recognized innovative changes, which are key to future domestic success.
“With automotive corporations now doing a terrific job in providing vehicles with minimal problems, the Cues of Quality (those product attributes that signal quality and create customer Trust) have a greater impact on the purchase decision. Perceived Quality has the power to change customer’s perceptions of a vehicle from being ‘interesting’ to eventually considered and purchased,” says Alexander Edwards, Strategic Vision President. “In the past, one could count the number of problems per vehicle; but for automotive customers today and tomorrow, a comprehensive and integrated perception of the ownership experience will be what drives the decision making process.”
“Even though Hyundai is often overlooked by the US customer, Hyundai’s success in 2007 is not surprising given its’ current products and press in leadership that is looking to the near and distant future with new designs from styling to powertrain,” reports Dr. Darrel Edwards, Founder and CEO of Strategic Vision.
Long time leader Honda Odyssey (five years in a row) has now been replaced by the Hyundai Entourage, Kia Sedona and Nissan Quest in a three-way tie for this segment. The Ford F-150 returns to a leadership position in this most tightly contested segment, tied with the Nissan Titan.
Buyers rated the following vehicles tops in their segments:
06-10-2007, 10:28 PM
#23
hail to the victors
http://www.carscoop.autoblog.com/200...ta-a/#comments
Strategic Vision has released its results for the 2007 Total Quality Awards, and the final tally is a bit surprising. For the first time ever, Hyundai has risen to share the position of having the most models leading a segment, along with Nissan. Both brands had three models with the top Total Quality Index (TQI) score in their segments, including the Hyundai Azera, Entourage, Santa Fe and Nissan Maxima, Quest, and Titan. The other surprise is that Toyota, long a leader in perceived quality, led no segments, though its vehicles still improved their TQI scores.
We like the Strategic Vision Total Quality Awards because they attempt to measure more than just the number of problems per vehicle. Vehicles that are more likely to make emotional connections with their owners tend to earn better TQI scores, for instance. That's why, according to the report, the VW Rabbit beat out other strong contenders in the small car class like the Honda Fit, Nissan Versa and Toyota Yaris.
You can check out all the segment leaders after the jump, and view all the rankings by clicking here.
Small Car
Honda Civic (882)
Small Multi-Function
Volkswagen Rabbit (880)
Medium Car
Saturn Aura (892)
Nissan Maxima (891)
Large Car
Hyundai Azera (901)
Small Specialty Under $25,000
Mini Cooper (911)
Near Luxury Car
BMW 3-Series Sedan (919)
Luxury Car
Mercedes-Benz S-Class Sedan (938)
Convertibles Under $30,000
Mini Cooper Convertible (905)
Convertibles Over $30,000
Chevrolet Corvette Convertible (930)
Minivan
Kia Sedona (866)
Hyundai Entourage (866)
Nissan Quest (865)
Small SUV
Hyundai Santa Fe (885)
Medium SUV
Kia Sorento (889)
Medium Crossover
Dodge Magnum (882)
Large SUV
Ford Expedition EL (918)
Near Luxury SUV
Lexus RX 350 (905)
Luxury SUV
Mercedes-Benz ML (915)
Standard Pick-Up
Honda Ridgeline (879)
Full-Size Pickup
Nissan Titan (876)
Ford F-150 (875)
Heavy Duty Pickup
Ford F-250/350 (876)
Strategic Vision has released its results for the 2007 Total Quality Awards, and the final tally is a bit surprising. For the first time ever, Hyundai has risen to share the position of having the most models leading a segment, along with Nissan. Both brands had three models with the top Total Quality Index (TQI) score in their segments, including the Hyundai Azera, Entourage, Santa Fe and Nissan Maxima, Quest, and Titan. The other surprise is that Toyota, long a leader in perceived quality, led no segments, though its vehicles still improved their TQI scores.
We like the Strategic Vision Total Quality Awards because they attempt to measure more than just the number of problems per vehicle. Vehicles that are more likely to make emotional connections with their owners tend to earn better TQI scores, for instance. That's why, according to the report, the VW Rabbit beat out other strong contenders in the small car class like the Honda Fit, Nissan Versa and Toyota Yaris.
You can check out all the segment leaders after the jump, and view all the rankings by clicking here.
Small Car
Honda Civic (882)
Small Multi-Function
Volkswagen Rabbit (880)
Medium Car
Saturn Aura (892)
Nissan Maxima (891)
Large Car
Hyundai Azera (901)
Small Specialty Under $25,000
Mini Cooper (911)
Near Luxury Car
BMW 3-Series Sedan (919)
Luxury Car
Mercedes-Benz S-Class Sedan (938)
Convertibles Under $30,000
Mini Cooper Convertible (905)
Convertibles Over $30,000
Chevrolet Corvette Convertible (930)
Minivan
Kia Sedona (866)
Hyundai Entourage (866)
Nissan Quest (865)
Small SUV
Hyundai Santa Fe (885)
Medium SUV
Kia Sorento (889)
Medium Crossover
Dodge Magnum (882)
Large SUV
Ford Expedition EL (918)
Near Luxury SUV
Lexus RX 350 (905)
Luxury SUV
Mercedes-Benz ML (915)
Standard Pick-Up
Honda Ridgeline (879)
Full-Size Pickup
Nissan Titan (876)
Ford F-150 (875)
Heavy Duty Pickup
Ford F-250/350 (876)
07-30-2010, 05:15 PM
#24
My only car is a Bus
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Republik of Kalifornia
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Report: 2010 Mercedes S-Class, Audi, VW Are Tops In Desirability
VW and Audi? Shocking. Toyota/Lexus take major hits.
For the fifth time in the last six years, the Mercedes-Benz S-Class was named the most desirable model in the entire industry.
That’s according to the annual Total Quality Index (TQI) report compiled by the market-research firm Strategic Vision. The 2010 Volkswagen Golf, GTI, and Tiguan are all at the top of their segments in this year’s results, announced this week, as are the Audi A5, Q5, and Q7.
Other high-ranking vehicles in TQI include the Toyota 4Runner, though it was the only top-ranked vehicle from Toyota or Lexus this year. Meanwhile Honda had several top-performers, with the Ridgeline, Odyssey, and Civic Coupe all at the top of their respective segments.
Dr. Darrel Edwards, the founder and chairman of Strategic Vision, pointed out that Volkswagen in particular has found such a loyal following by providing the vehicle experience that customers love. “While VoA [Volkswagen of America] may lag on ranked measures of initial quality, the experience with the vehicles is creating a sound customer base,” he said in a release accompanying the results.
Strategic Vision argues that love/desire (as measured by the TQI) and quality (as measured by other metrics) are independent factors. “Simply counting how many problems a vehicle has or design characteristics that buyers do not find completely satisfying or ‘excellent,’ is inadequate when determining why people spend tent of thousands of dollars on a new vehicle,” said Edwards, in a release accompanying the results. “It over-simplifies customers’ processes, characterizing them as simple, non-feeling drones.”
In the study’s bow to traditional metrics, looking at “Things Gone Wrong” per 100 vehicles, GM posted one of the most significant improvements, especially with the Buick brand.
TQI is relevant in pointing out how well the company is doing in delivering the products that customers want—and, in turn, succeeding in the market—the firm argues. It points out that Ford’s sales successes over the past couple of years came as no surprise; the brand performed strongly in the TQI back in 2007, managed to regain traction in the U.S. market through high levels of workmanship, exterior styling, and performance. Through those qualities in its products, it built brand equity and strengthened its image of quality at a time when the domestic brands were getting lots of bad press.
Cars with a high TQI score also have stronger youth appeal, Strategic Vision assesses. The average TQI score for vehicles purchased by those 29 and younger were over ten points higher than for older age groups.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/mart...n-desirability
For the fifth time in the last six years, the Mercedes-Benz S-Class was named the most desirable model in the entire industry.
That’s according to the annual Total Quality Index (TQI) report compiled by the market-research firm Strategic Vision. The 2010 Volkswagen Golf, GTI, and Tiguan are all at the top of their segments in this year’s results, announced this week, as are the Audi A5, Q5, and Q7.
Other high-ranking vehicles in TQI include the Toyota 4Runner, though it was the only top-ranked vehicle from Toyota or Lexus this year. Meanwhile Honda had several top-performers, with the Ridgeline, Odyssey, and Civic Coupe all at the top of their respective segments.
Dr. Darrel Edwards, the founder and chairman of Strategic Vision, pointed out that Volkswagen in particular has found such a loyal following by providing the vehicle experience that customers love. “While VoA [Volkswagen of America] may lag on ranked measures of initial quality, the experience with the vehicles is creating a sound customer base,” he said in a release accompanying the results.
Strategic Vision argues that love/desire (as measured by the TQI) and quality (as measured by other metrics) are independent factors. “Simply counting how many problems a vehicle has or design characteristics that buyers do not find completely satisfying or ‘excellent,’ is inadequate when determining why people spend tent of thousands of dollars on a new vehicle,” said Edwards, in a release accompanying the results. “It over-simplifies customers’ processes, characterizing them as simple, non-feeling drones.”
In the study’s bow to traditional metrics, looking at “Things Gone Wrong” per 100 vehicles, GM posted one of the most significant improvements, especially with the Buick brand.
TQI is relevant in pointing out how well the company is doing in delivering the products that customers want—and, in turn, succeeding in the market—the firm argues. It points out that Ford’s sales successes over the past couple of years came as no surprise; the brand performed strongly in the TQI back in 2007, managed to regain traction in the U.S. market through high levels of workmanship, exterior styling, and performance. Through those qualities in its products, it built brand equity and strengthened its image of quality at a time when the domestic brands were getting lots of bad press.
Cars with a high TQI score also have stronger youth appeal, Strategic Vision assesses. The average TQI score for vehicles purchased by those 29 and younger were over ten points higher than for older age groups.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/mart...n-desirability
Last edited by CL6; 07-30-2010 at 05:17 PM.
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