Mercedes-Benz: C-Class News

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Old 09-24-2022, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
Since this is a Plug in.... what happens when it ran out of juice after a few runs? The car becomes a C43?
The engine can charge the battery.
Old 09-25-2022, 08:05 AM
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It's a small battery pack that's meant to be depleted quickly and recharged quickly, a la KERS from Formula 1. You could plug it in but...why? It won't take long to recharge simply driving the car.
Old 09-26-2022, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
The engine can charge the battery.

Can it keep it full when you are on the track? or the 1/4 mile runs.

i mean if it could, what is the point of plug in?... as Civic said..
Old 09-26-2022, 12:51 PM
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For track use, 1/4 mile, I doubt it, not enough regenerative braking to recharge I'd bet.
Regular circuit use, might get some recharge, but not sure if you could fill & deplete on the same lap. Similar to F1 in qualifying, they'll take a lap or two to recharge the battery before putting in another hot lap.
Old 09-26-2022, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
Can it keep it full when you are on the track? or the 1/4 mile runs.

i mean if it could, what is the point of plug in?... as Civic said..
Yes, it can. Don't know about 1/4 mile runs, probably not because there's no chance to regen but you could just let the engine idle in between runs? You'd certainly be able to do several runs back to back before the battery died though.

There are lots of videos of people tracking their SF90's which has basically the same PHEV drivetrain. The battery stays charged pretty much the whole time and the regen braking and diverting engine power to the battery during braking keeps it topped off. Remember that there's like 30 miles of range on the battery using nothing but the battery so you can go a pretty good distance without depleting it.

What's the point of plug in? So you can drive it on full EV when you're in a city or something. Normal hybrids can't run on EV alone at speeds over like 20mph, PHEV's definitely can do it. You don't HAVE to plug it in, but you can and drive without the gas engine quite a lot.
Old 09-28-2022, 06:33 PM
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The battery should be fine for at the dragstrip. I did about 8 runs in my Volvo at the strip and it's battery was still at 60%. If I really wanted to keep it topped off, I could have just run the generator to recharge the battery in between runs. The C63 battery is the half the size, but it should still be fine.

At the track, it's a different story. Battery ran dry after the first run. There were no L2 chargers at the track, so in between runs I was only able to get about 20% of charge in.
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Old 09-29-2022, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by fiatlux
The battery should be fine for at the dragstrip. I did about 8 runs in my Volvo at the strip and it's battery was still at 60%. If I really wanted to keep it topped off, I could have just run the generator to recharge the battery in between runs. The C63 battery is the half the size, but it should still be fine.

At the track, it's a different story. Battery ran dry after the first run. There were no L2 chargers at the track, so in between runs I was only able to get about 20% of charge in.
I'm really curious to see how the MB battery reacts on track since it's supposedly tech from F1, and the battery recharges decently quick there.
Old 10-25-2022, 09:28 AM
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https://www.netcarshow.com/mercedes-...ce_f1_edition/


The new Mercedes-AMG C63 S E PERFORMANCE is a real gamechanger in the 55-year history of AMG. With know-how from Formula 1™, it brings state-of-the-art technologies from motorsport to the road. The innovative hybrid concept with an electric motor and AMG high-performance battery on the rear axle combines a superior system output of 500 kW (680 hp) with impressive driving dynamics and high efficiency. This makes the Mercedes-AMG C63 S E PERFORMANCE the perfect ambassador for the Future of Driving Performance. With the exclusive exterior and interior features of the special "F1 Edition" model, Mercedes-AMG is now making the electrified future even more visible.

The "F1 Edition" is available for the Saloon and Estate for one year from the start of sales. The exclusive MANUFAKTUR alpine grey uni paint finish is a striking distinguishing feature. It is combined with foiling on the vehicle flanks consisting of the AMG logo and colour gradient from grey to black. Red trim lines on the sides and front and rear aprons add further colour accents. The 20-inch AMG forged wheels in a 5-twin-spoke design are painted matt black. The red rim flanges provide an attractive contrast and thus follow the colour scheme of the wheels of the Official FIA F1 Medical Car™ from Mercedes-AMG.

The AMG Aerodynamics Package, developed in the wind tunnel, improves handling characteristics at high speeds and enhances the dynamic visual impression. The aerodynamic elements include the larger front splitter, the spoiler lip on the boot lid (Saloon only), the redesigned trim on the side members and the additional diffuser board.

The AMG Night Package I and the AMG Night Package II also enhance the motorsport appearance of the "F1 Edition". The front splitter, the trim elements in the front wings, the outside mirror housings, the beltline trim strip and the window surrounds are all finished in high-gloss black. In addition, the radiator grille louvres, the trim strip in the rear apron, the twin tailpipe trims of the AMG exhaust system and the model badge on the boot lid are all finished in black chrome. The AMG fuel filler cap in silver chrome with "AMG" lettering also emphasises the special status of the edition.

The interior is characterised by the contrast of black and red. The AMG Performance seats are particularly refined with upholstery in Exclusive black nappa leather with red decorative topstitching and embossed AMG emblems in the front head restraints. They follow the sporty look just like the seat belts in red and the exclusive AMG carbon trim elements with red thread. The AMG Performance steering wheel in nappa leather / DINAMICA microfibre with red decorative topstitching and the AMG door sill trims with red illuminated "AMG" lettering are a perfect match. The finishing touches are the exclusive Edition badge in the interior and specific AMG floor mats with red decorative topstitching and F1 logo.

To protect the valuable vehicle, each customer receives a customised AMG Indoor Car Cover with F1 logo. With its breathable outer panelling made of tear-resistant synthetic fibre fabric and antistatic inner fabric made of flannel, it protects the vehicle in the garage from dust and scratches.

​​​​​​​
Old 02-26-2024, 02:40 PM
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https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...formance-test/


TL;DR:
HIGHS: Manically responsive powertrain, near-seamless operation, confidence-inspiring dynamics.
LOWS: Time-to-admit-it's-a-problem weight gain, we miss the V-8 music, some less powerful competitors beat it in acceleration.
VERDICT: We have more respect than love for this ultracomplicated performance machine of the future.
There's a concept popularized by the English philosopher William of Ockham in the 1300s. Called Occam's razor, it advises that, when given multiple hypotheses with equal explanatory power over a phenomenon, the simplest answer is most often the right one.

For example, say a compact German performance sedan accelerates to 60 mph in under three seconds. You'd suppose it's sending power to all four wheels, and it's possibly electric. But you wouldn't float a theory that it's a plug-in hybrid where, even in Electric mode, it can shift between rear- or all-wheel drive or that its electrified turbocharger can recharge the battery. But, in the case of the Mercedes-AMG C63 S E Performance, this more complicated explanation is correct. Occam's razor evidently doesn't cut it with engineers in Affalterbach.

Perhaps AMG was looking for a fresh challenge after installing a very nearly Formula 1 powertrain in its One hypercar. But this is arguably the most complex powertrain in the new-car market, which is saying something in this era of blended combustion-and-electric propulsion. In total, this highest-performing C-class makes 671 horsepower and has three electric motors. The most powerful one gets its own two-speed gearbox and spins coaxially with the rear axle. Another motor hangs off the front of the most powerful production four-cylinder engine ever. And AMG integrated the third into the turbocharger, primarily for preemptive boosting to minimize lag. Comprehending all of it requires a diagram [see "AMG's New Plug-In-Hybrid Math Explained"].

With the C63 not yet available in the United States, we decamped to the South of France for a thorough wringing out. (Why not simply call it southern France, you ask? The French labels just aren't that simple.) Trundling through low-speed stop-and-go traffic, we find it remarkable how seamlessly and harmoniously the C63's powertrain works together. We often joke that a bad vehicle can feel like a collection of parts flying together in close formation, but the C63 instead could feel like a collection of power trains. In the default Comfort mode, the engine turns on and off regularly and does so very smoothly, more so than some shifts, despite its high-strung nature—469 horsepower, 235.6 horsepower per liter, and 23.0 psi of peak boost. But this latest and most powerful incarnation of the M139 2.0-liter inline-four can sound reedy and buzzy under these conditions; in other words, it can sound like the generator it sometimes is.


Making our way to the coast southeast of Marseille, we encounter narrow roads barely a lane wide in small towns, and the modestly sized C-class instantly feels more like an S-class. France has odd trapezoidal speed bumps that are roughly the same size as a vehicle's track width and meant to be straddled. Once clear of those, we become aware that the signs depicting a sliding car and reading Verglas Fréquent (literally, "frequent ice") mean we're getting close to the best roads, the ones that appear to have been paved by a dog chasing its tail.

There's road texture coming through the steering wheel, and the on-center effort is a deep vee, sneeze-proof at unlimited autobahn speeds. There's also appropriate damping on-center, which we much prefer to the BMW M3's latest tuning. Turn-in is eager, but the effort ramp-up from there is a bit flat and subtle. In Sport mode and above, the engine stays on continuously and adds pops and crackles in heavy-throttle driving. Optional AMG Performance front seats are very supportive, especially in the thigh area, and not nearly as constrictive as BMW's, with adjustable side bolstering and lumbar. The back seat is adult-habitable but not generous.

At max attack, the engine sounds urgent but not invigorating. Interior noise is a polite 78 decibels at wide-open throttle, a far cry from the 83 decibels of this C63's fire-breathing V-8- powered predecessor. There's more rearward power balance and willingness to corner neutrally in Sport+ and Race modes. But things don't get hoony until you select Drift mode, which puts all the power to the rear axle and requires manual-shift mode and the commitment of switching the stability control all the way off. And even then, the C63 doesn't bite. Dynamically, it's very confidence-inspiring.

The ride quality is firm, but it's more roll stiffness than ride harshness. Undulating roads can induce head toss, which is no surprise considering that the massive anti-roll bars could pass for plumbing stock. The brake pedal is squishy at the top of its travel—a knock on the tuning rather than the very capable brake hardware that produces stops from 70 mph in a ridiculously short 139 feet, partially due to a test surface that's likely grippier than our norm.

Take a ride on a 4000-rpm launch-control start, and after acclimating to the ferocity of the acceleration, you'll notice what feels like a lazy shift or the engine briefly hitting the limiter at the top of third gear at 76 mph. That's the one-two shift for the rear motor. Even with that little hiccup in the power delivery, straight-line speed is serious—the Mercedes dispatches 60 mph in 2.9 seconds and the quarter-mile in 11.2 at 121 mph. That's 0.7 and 0.6 second quicker, respectively, than the previous C63, although a good chunk of the gain is because this is the first top-dog-AMG C-class with all-wheel drive. For comparison, the last all-wheel-drive E63 S we tested shot to 60 mph in 3.0 seconds.

Although the BMW M3 CS is down a whopping 128 horsepower to the C63, it wins the quarter-mile race decisively. How can this be? Well, given that the Mercedes, at 4749 pounds, is heavier by a monstrous 859 pounds—that's 762 more than the last C63—its power-to-weight ratio barely betters the Bimmer's. But the C63 wins in responsiveness. Check out the 3.6- second time to 60 mph from a 5-mph rolling start, 0.4 second ahead of the BMW. It beats the Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing too. See also the 2.3-second 30-to-50-mph time, which bests the M3 CS, even though the C63 starts this test with its engine off in Comfort mode (we perform passing tests in a car's default drive mode). In Race mode, the 30-to-50-mph passing time drops to 1.5 seconds, which is electric-car territory.


The e-turbo itself finally delivers on its promise of lag-free boost and is far more responsive than the similar setup in the C43. Part of the improvement is certainly that the C63's e-turbo operates on 400 volts, while the lesser AMG's is a 48-volt unit.

We pull off at a scenic overlook to take in the views, where the light-colored rocky outcroppings meet the deep-blue Mediterranean Sea. Much of the vegetation below comprises the grapevines prevalent in this Provence region.

Unlike the powertrain, the C63's exterior is quite subdued. There's a modest front splitter, rear spoiler, and central hood vent. Additional vents on the front fenders incorporate E Performance badging. Perhaps AMG spent all of its budget and then some on the powertrain, but there's no carbon-fiber roof or anything extraordinary on the outside. There aren't even carbon-ceramic brake rotors.

On the other hand, the C63's modes and displays are consistent with the level of powertrain complexity. There are displays that show the temperature of each motor and the real-time power and torque of each source. One of the gauge-cluster display options has the engine rpm radiating outward like a blast zone, while spears of light jut out to indicate electric-motor output. Bar graphs on the periphery show the power and torque output of each of the two major propulsion sources. Two knobs on the steering wheel control the many adjustments for the overall mode, as well as individual tweaks for the dampers, amount of regenerative braking, stability-control settings, engine-sound enhancement, and more. AMG has even mapped out the optimum electric deployment for numerous racetracks, showing the driver where to push past the throttle detent for maximum motor boost and where to back off and let the battery recharge.

Back at a sedate pace, there's also some nominal electric-only capability at speeds up to 78 mph: eight miles on the European cycle, which should equate to roughly seven in the U.S. We saw between four and 10 miles, depending on conditions. Part of the reason is that the engine comes on with 25 percent of the battery remaining to ensure there's always a buffer to provide an acceleration boost on demand. But the small 4.8-kWh battery recharges quickly—roughly an hour on a 240-volt outlet or about 10 minutes if you select Race mode, where the gas engine aggressively recharges the battery.

Why go to all the trouble to tame this complexity? Well, U.S. fuel-economy figures aren't available yet, but the C63 is about 50 percent more efficient than the M3 CS in European fuel-economy metrics. That's massive but, of course, based on dipping into very little of the Mercedes's power reserves. The 17 mpg we averaged is perhaps impressive compared only to what we might have burned with its V-8-powered predecessor. And in Europe, where a tank of premium can easily run more than a decent hotel room, fuel economy certainly matters more. The price is also up substantially, to a starting point expected to be right around $100,000.

We're impressed by the C63's integration and that it doesn't feel as complex as it is. But AMG's latest triggers more of a left-brain crush than unqualified passion. We miss the V-8.



Old 02-28-2024, 12:44 PM
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Wow, I had no idea they were putting a 4 cyl in the C63... indeed how times have changed. The three motor setup is pretty interesting. Too bad about all the extra weight, though. But for $100k, would I want this car over others in the segment?
Old 02-28-2024, 02:45 PM
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I absolutely adore the C63 AMG (wish we got the wagon one here) but I have zero desire to own this new version. They just made a car that no one wants. I don't even care that it has a bazillion horsepower, that's not the point. Want something that makes fuck ton of V8 noise and does epic burnouts!
Old 02-28-2024, 02:55 PM
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I loved my C, but for $100k, I'm out.
I'll get a used E63S Wagon
Old 02-29-2024, 06:26 AM
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Crazy that it weighs more than my model 3. And even with a 4cyl, they got a whopping 17mpg.

​​​​​​I don't understand why they went for the extreme option of a 4cyl instead of an inline 6. Or just keep the 8. The m177 is a fantastic engine.
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Old 02-29-2024, 08:06 AM
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Betting it has a lot to do with Euro emissions regs.
Old 04-18-2024, 10:18 AM
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https://www.motor1.com/news/716390/2...3-usa-pricing/


Mercedes-AMG unveiled the new C63 in September 2022, but it's only now the electrified sports sedan finally has a price tag in the United States. The car starts at $85,050 after factoring in the mandatory $1,150 destination and delivery charge. Upgrade to the Pinnacle trim with extra technology and you’ll be paying $87,100. The long overdue model will be at dealers later this spring.

How does it stack up against the competition? Its main adversary is the BMW M3, which retails from $76,995. Many enthusiasts will likely prefer Bavaria's C63 fighter for its bigger inline-six engine (without a plug-in hybrid setup), the rear-wheel-drive layout, and a six-speed manual transmission. The more powerful automatic-only M3 Competition is still cheaper, at $81,195.

As for the two-pedal M3 Competition xDrive, it costs just about the same as the AMG C63, at $85,295. The limited-run M3 CS launched last year is gone, but when the special edition was available, BMW charged a steep $119,695.

The Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio would normally be a direct rival, but the Italian sports sedan is sadly being retired from the US. If you hurry, the final orders will be taken by the end of this month, with production scheduled to end in June. The RWD-only V-6 model can be yours for $83,465—once again, cheaper than the C63. Alfa is offering a $1,750 incentive if you take delivery by the end of the month, bringing the price down to $81,715.

Representing America, the Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing is the cheapest of the lot. Stick to the manual gearbox and you're paying $62,890, whereas the automatic model costs $66,065. There's also the Audi RS5 Sportback, which is technically a hatchback, but still an AMG C63 rival. It too undercuts the model from Affalterbach as the Four Rings are charging $80,995.

Buying the priciest car in its segment gets you the world's most powerful four-cylinder engine ever put in a series production vehicle. The hand-built "M139l" is a 2.0-liter unit mounted longitudinally rather than transversally as is the case in AMG's "45" cars. It makes 469 horsepower on its own and works with a 201-hp electric motor.

It's worth noting the rear-mounted electric motor offers its peak output for just 10 seconds while the continuous output is only 94 hp. The e-motor draws its juice from a 6.1-kWh battery pack. Unlike its rear-wheel-drive, V-8-powered predecessor, the new four-pot AMG C63 is available strictly with AWD. You get a combined maximum output of 671 hp and a staggering 752 lb-ft of torque. It's enough electrified muscle for a 0 to 60 mph in 3.3 seconds.

There's a second electric motor that spools up the turbo to virtually eliminate the dreaded turbo lag. Mercedes-AMG also throws in rear-wheel steering (up to 2.5 degrees), composite brakes, dynamic engine mounts, and adaptive damping. America is only getting the sedan, but Europeans can also buy the C63 as a more practical wagon. The RS4 Avant and M3 Touring aren't available in the US either.

It remains to be seen how many Americans will fork out $85,000 for a four-cylinder car, even if the specs are this impressive. Don't hold your breath for the V-8's return, as it's been ruled out already. AMG CEO Michael Schiebe said they're sticking with the plug-in hybrid four-cylinder setup because it's "very, very progressive."

The upcoming E63 will also lose the big ol' V-8, likely to make room for an electrified inline-six.

Old 04-18-2024, 10:57 AM
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D.O.A.
Old 04-18-2024, 11:06 AM
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Will be a great deal after 3-4 years when it's worth 50%
Old 04-18-2024, 11:08 AM
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I'd hate to see the maintenance costs on that hybrid system though.
Old 04-18-2024, 11:12 AM
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I'd be more apt to look to the older S/C 5.5 or NA 6.2 V8s. Probably in an E, since no C wagon AMG here.
Old 04-18-2024, 11:16 AM
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Hard pass. This isn't what enthusiasts who are going to buy this thing want. I'd even be fine with a TT I6 over some stupidly over complicated and heavy plug in hybrid.

The sales of the M3 are going to go up for sure lol.
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Old 04-22-2024, 01:18 PM
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469hp 4cyl.

Would much rather have the BMW or BW for manual, or Audi for auto.
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