J.D. Power: Initial Quality News
#82
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Originally Posted by Mokos23
hmm trying to think the only nissan models built in japan are the murano, rogue, GT-R, and 350z?
#84
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Originally Posted by amv12
Theres a plaque under the hood of my G35 that proudly reads "Made in Japan" ![Rock On](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rockon.gif)
![Rock On](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rockon.gif)
#85
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Ken1997TL
Lets see how these same vehicles are after 3, 5 and 10 years ![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
Initial quality means NOTHING in these surveys anyway.
What counts as a problem? Is 1 engine falling out the same as 1 rattle that the service department technician can't duplicate?
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
Initial quality means NOTHING in these surveys anyway.
What counts as a problem? Is 1 engine falling out the same as 1 rattle that the service department technician can't duplicate?
THIS SURVEY = A PILE OF SHIT
Someone close this thread and lets move on. By discussing this crap we give more attention and publicity to this J.D. Power sham of a survey.
Like Ken said - what the hell constitutues a problem. A sticking cupholder = a spun bearing. Puh-lease.
And the survey is done by customer. Is a BMW customer going to be as tolerant of a erratic cupholder as a Kia owner?
What a BS survey and a waste of server space.
#86
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Originally Posted by Mokos23
i did some research and the only Infiniti not made in Japan is the QX56 based Armada.
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Originally Posted by F23A4
Indeed. In prior years, it was the Canton, Miss. built QX56 alone that adversely affected Infiniti's quality ratings.
#91
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The CLK winning its segment was my red flag. It does not make sense, the car is worn out at this point. Every year I get in it and it looks and feels older and older. Very weird for people to be so satisfied with it.
Glad to see Audi do better.
Glad to see Audi do better.
#92
6G TLX-S
Originally Posted by gavriil
The CLK winning its segment was my red flag. It does not make sense, the car is worn out at this point. Every year I get in it and it looks and feels older and older. Very weird for people to be so satisfied with it.
Glad to see Audi do better.
Glad to see Audi do better.
#93
2009 Initial Vehicle Quality
NEW YORK – Ford, General Motors and Chrysler have made strides in new vehicle quality over the last year, but they still lag behind their foreign competitors, according to a closely watched study released Monday by J.D. Power and Associates.
The initial quality of 2009 model year vehicles sold by the Detroit Three improved by an average of 10 percent from last year, the marketing and consulting company said. Industrywide, scores improved an average of 8 percent.
"The Detroit automakers are keeping their focus on designing and building high-quality vehicles, which is a precondition for long-term success," said David Sargent, vice president of automotive research at J.D. Power, in a statement.
Lexus, Toyota Motor Corp.'s luxury line, was the top brand in J.D. Power's initial quality study, an annual survey of vehicle owners that measures mechanical and design problems in the first 90 days of ownership.
Porsche was the No. 2 brand, followed by GM's Cadillac, then Hyundai and Honda.
Toyota, which supplanted General Motors Corp. as the world's largest automaker last year, also swept 10 vehicle segment awards. Its assembly facility in Higashi-Fuji, Japan, that builds the Lexus SC 430 and the Toyota Corolla took the J.D. Power's top plant award.
The worst-performing brand was Mini, with owners reporting 165 problems per 100 vehicles. Though Chrysler's scores improved year over year, it had no brands above the industry average. It tied for one segment award, with its PT Cruiser Wagon sharing the top award in the compact activity vehicle segment with Honda's CR-V. Chrysler, however, is discontinuing the car.
Cadillac and Chevrolet were GM's only two brands whose 2009 models performed above average. The four brands GM is purging under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection — Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer and Saab — were the company's worst rated. The Chevrolet TrailBlazer and GMC Yukon SUVs were rated best in their segments.
Jamie Hresko, GM's vice president for global quality, said the automaker has worked hard to improve vehicle quality over the last five years. Chevrolet and Cadillac account for 70 percent of GM's volume, he said, and top marks for those segments are an indication the effort is paying off.
"Is it where we need to be? No," Hresko said. "To have our core brands — Cadillac and Chevrolet — be on par with Toyota, we have reached a level of quality that will allow us to change perceptions."
Ford Motor Co., the only major U.S. automaker that has not filed for bankruptcy protection or accepted government aid, also saw scores improve for three of its four brands: Ford, Mercury and Volvo. But its Lincoln brand's score fell, and only Ford and Mercury performed above the industry average.
The average industry score improved to 108 problems per 100 vehicles, down from 118 in 2008.
J.D. Power credited the improvement to several well-received new models that were launched in 2009. It said vehicles like Hyundai's Genesis, Kia's Borrego, Toyota's Venza and Volkswagen's CC performed better than their segment averages. Several redesigned 2009 models also scored well, J.D. Power said.
The scores come during a tumultuous time for the auto industry, with sales at their worst level in decades and taxpayers stuck funding the restructuring of GM and Chrysler Group LLC to the tune of billions of dollars. Although the two automakers have been pummeled by the economic crisis, many analysts have complained that a shortage of high-quality small car offerings has hobbled their performance in the down market.
GM has several new, small vehicles on the way that industry analysts say should help it better compete with established offerings from Toyota, Honda and other foreign competitors. It plans to start building the subcompact Chevrolet Cruze next year and says it will get about 40 miles per gallon. It also plans to sell the Chevrolet Spark minicar in the U.S. in 2011.
The road may be tougher for Chrysler. Cars like the sporty 500 made by its new owner, Italy's Fiat Group SpA, won't make it to the U.S. until late next year. The Auburn Hills, Mich., company plans to roll out new versions of its popular Jeep Grand Cherokee SUV and Chrysler 300 large sedan by the end of next year, along with a rechargeable electric vehicle, but these plans likely have been delayed by the bankruptcy process.
J.D. Power's rankings were based on questionnaires from 80,900 people who bought or leased new 2009 vehicles between February and May. The questionnaires ask 228 questions on issues from handling, braking and engine trouble, to seat comfort and stereo systems.
The rankings are closely watched by automakers and consumers, and are frequently used in advertising. However, some critics question whether they show any real statistical difference between automakers. Mini's ranking, for example, equates to 1.65 problems per vehicle. Top-performer Lexus had 84 problems per 100 vehicles, or 0.84 per vehicle. So on average, less than one problem per vehicle separates the best brand from the worst.
The initial quality of 2009 model year vehicles sold by the Detroit Three improved by an average of 10 percent from last year, the marketing and consulting company said. Industrywide, scores improved an average of 8 percent.
"The Detroit automakers are keeping their focus on designing and building high-quality vehicles, which is a precondition for long-term success," said David Sargent, vice president of automotive research at J.D. Power, in a statement.
Lexus, Toyota Motor Corp.'s luxury line, was the top brand in J.D. Power's initial quality study, an annual survey of vehicle owners that measures mechanical and design problems in the first 90 days of ownership.
Porsche was the No. 2 brand, followed by GM's Cadillac, then Hyundai and Honda.
Toyota, which supplanted General Motors Corp. as the world's largest automaker last year, also swept 10 vehicle segment awards. Its assembly facility in Higashi-Fuji, Japan, that builds the Lexus SC 430 and the Toyota Corolla took the J.D. Power's top plant award.
The worst-performing brand was Mini, with owners reporting 165 problems per 100 vehicles. Though Chrysler's scores improved year over year, it had no brands above the industry average. It tied for one segment award, with its PT Cruiser Wagon sharing the top award in the compact activity vehicle segment with Honda's CR-V. Chrysler, however, is discontinuing the car.
Cadillac and Chevrolet were GM's only two brands whose 2009 models performed above average. The four brands GM is purging under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection — Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer and Saab — were the company's worst rated. The Chevrolet TrailBlazer and GMC Yukon SUVs were rated best in their segments.
Jamie Hresko, GM's vice president for global quality, said the automaker has worked hard to improve vehicle quality over the last five years. Chevrolet and Cadillac account for 70 percent of GM's volume, he said, and top marks for those segments are an indication the effort is paying off.
"Is it where we need to be? No," Hresko said. "To have our core brands — Cadillac and Chevrolet — be on par with Toyota, we have reached a level of quality that will allow us to change perceptions."
Ford Motor Co., the only major U.S. automaker that has not filed for bankruptcy protection or accepted government aid, also saw scores improve for three of its four brands: Ford, Mercury and Volvo. But its Lincoln brand's score fell, and only Ford and Mercury performed above the industry average.
The average industry score improved to 108 problems per 100 vehicles, down from 118 in 2008.
J.D. Power credited the improvement to several well-received new models that were launched in 2009. It said vehicles like Hyundai's Genesis, Kia's Borrego, Toyota's Venza and Volkswagen's CC performed better than their segment averages. Several redesigned 2009 models also scored well, J.D. Power said.
The scores come during a tumultuous time for the auto industry, with sales at their worst level in decades and taxpayers stuck funding the restructuring of GM and Chrysler Group LLC to the tune of billions of dollars. Although the two automakers have been pummeled by the economic crisis, many analysts have complained that a shortage of high-quality small car offerings has hobbled their performance in the down market.
GM has several new, small vehicles on the way that industry analysts say should help it better compete with established offerings from Toyota, Honda and other foreign competitors. It plans to start building the subcompact Chevrolet Cruze next year and says it will get about 40 miles per gallon. It also plans to sell the Chevrolet Spark minicar in the U.S. in 2011.
The road may be tougher for Chrysler. Cars like the sporty 500 made by its new owner, Italy's Fiat Group SpA, won't make it to the U.S. until late next year. The Auburn Hills, Mich., company plans to roll out new versions of its popular Jeep Grand Cherokee SUV and Chrysler 300 large sedan by the end of next year, along with a rechargeable electric vehicle, but these plans likely have been delayed by the bankruptcy process.
J.D. Power's rankings were based on questionnaires from 80,900 people who bought or leased new 2009 vehicles between February and May. The questionnaires ask 228 questions on issues from handling, braking and engine trouble, to seat comfort and stereo systems.
The rankings are closely watched by automakers and consumers, and are frequently used in advertising. However, some critics question whether they show any real statistical difference between automakers. Mini's ranking, for example, equates to 1.65 problems per vehicle. Top-performer Lexus had 84 problems per 100 vehicles, or 0.84 per vehicle. So on average, less than one problem per vehicle separates the best brand from the worst.
It seems like for initial quality, Hyundai > Honda.
Its only a matter of time that Hyundai will be permanently better than Honda in quality over time, just give us, the proud Koreans, 3-4 years.
Last edited by msl82; 06-22-2009 at 03:24 PM.
#95
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (5)
^
Yeah, initial quality doesn't really mean too much to me either. Anyone can polish a turd to look good at first.
While Hyundai has come a long way and I would seriously consider the Genesis (coupe or sedan) myself... they still need to prove themselves in long-term quality in order to be considered with Toyota, Honda, or Nissan (as well as their luxury counterparts)...
![Nod](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/nod.gif)
While Hyundai has come a long way and I would seriously consider the Genesis (coupe or sedan) myself... they still need to prove themselves in long-term quality in order to be considered with Toyota, Honda, or Nissan (as well as their luxury counterparts)...
#97
Senior Moderator
#98
Race Director
#99
Senior Moderator
![Nod](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/nod.gif)
Let's see how the PT Cruiser fares after 5 years vs that same CR-V. And we know how that'll go.
![Too Cool](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/toocool.gif)
#100
Safety Car
![Lightbulb](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/icons/icon3.gif)
I think that it was last year or so that JD Powers pointed out that altho Hyundai scored well in the Initial Quality Survey, the same people experienced far more problems 3 years down the road in the Long Term Study.
Toyota/Lexus started slipping ~2006 but the president apologized & announced that they would do better last year & it looks like they are on their way. I would imagine that Honda/Acura would do the same if their reliability started tanking.
Toyota/Lexus started slipping ~2006 but the president apologized & announced that they would do better last year & it looks like they are on their way. I would imagine that Honda/Acura would do the same if their reliability started tanking.
#101
^
Yeah, initial quality doesn't really mean too much to me either. Anyone can polish a turd to look good at first.
While Hyundai has come a long way and I would seriously consider the Genesis (coupe or sedan) myself... they still need to prove themselves in long-term quality in order to be considered with Toyota, Honda, or Nissan (as well as their luxury counterparts)...
![Nod](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/nod.gif)
While Hyundai has come a long way and I would seriously consider the Genesis (coupe or sedan) myself... they still need to prove themselves in long-term quality in order to be considered with Toyota, Honda, or Nissan (as well as their luxury counterparts)...
IQS, aside from early mechanical breakdowns, measures fit/finish, ease of use, etc.
But yeah, long-term reliability is more important.
Btw, Hyundai's long-term reliability (according to JD Power, CR and Auto Bild) has surpassed Nissan's for a no. of years.
#102
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090622/...ehicle_quality
Its only a matter of time that Hyundai will be permanently better than Honda in quality over time, just give us, the proud Koreans, 3-4 years.
Its only a matter of time that Hyundai will be permanently better than Honda in quality over time, just give us, the proud Koreans, 3-4 years.
Shut up already and go drive around in your Nissan.
#103
The most annoying kind of fanboy is the persistent, not-yet-permabanned one....
That said, I'll agree with the belief that initial quality is a false indicator of ultimate dependability. Some cars have problems initially in the first year or so then once those are rectified, the cars end up to not be problematic at all. On the other hand, some cars may be perfect in the first year or years of ownership, then all of a sudden an ugly problem rears its head up. A blown tranny 3 years down the road is a bigger deal than a faulty window regulator within 6 months of ownership
That said, I'll agree with the belief that initial quality is a false indicator of ultimate dependability. Some cars have problems initially in the first year or so then once those are rectified, the cars end up to not be problematic at all. On the other hand, some cars may be perfect in the first year or years of ownership, then all of a sudden an ugly problem rears its head up. A blown tranny 3 years down the road is a bigger deal than a faulty window regulator within 6 months of ownership
![Shrug](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif)
#104
6G TLX-S
Initial quality problems will be fixed free by the dealerships, whereas long term quality problems will be fixed out of your own pocket.
#105
I believe there is a correlation between initial quality to the long-term dependability/reliability. It may not always be true in terms of cause and effect/outcome, however, i believe there is a linear relationships between these two factors.
If you look at the long-term dependability of these cars, most of them also appear on initial quality survey.
If you look at the long-term dependability of these cars, most of them also appear on initial quality survey.
![](http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/charts/2008115a.gif)
#106
Safety Car
I believe there is a correlation between initial quality to the long-term dependability/reliability. It may not always be true in terms of cause and effect/outcome, however, i believe there is a linear relationships between these two factors.
If you look at the long-term dependability of these cars, most of them also appear on initial quality survey.
![](http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/charts/2008115a.gif)
If you look at the long-term dependability of these cars, most of them also appear on initial quality survey.
![](http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/charts/2008115a.gif)
#107
The sizzle in the Steak
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
#108
Senior Moderator
Cadillac is third in the IQS? You're kidding?
Better than Honda and Acura?
Hell has surely frozen over.
As much as I love my CTS-V, though, even I don't expect reliability over the long term to be as good as in my Hondas/Acuras. I've got only 3200 miles, so the car is still brand new; it's too early for reliability comments on my car.
![what](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/what.gif)
Hell has surely frozen over.
As much as I love my CTS-V, though, even I don't expect reliability over the long term to be as good as in my Hondas/Acuras. I've got only 3200 miles, so the car is still brand new; it's too early for reliability comments on my car.
#109
Senior Moderator
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Time will tell but history as has been far from kind.
#110
Safety Car
![Post](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
![](http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/06/2010iqs1.jpg)
![](http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/06/2010iqs2.jpg)
![](http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/06/2010iqs3.jpg)
J.D. Power and Associates has released its 2010 Initial Quality Study (IQS) and Porsche has earned back the top spot that was occupied by Lexus in last year's study. The annual J.D. Power study measures IQS based on problems reported per 100 vehicles (PP100) – a lower score means a lower rate of problem incidences and higher quality.
Domestic brands, as a whole, demonstrated higher initial quality than import brands for the first time in an IQS (impressive, as the company has been conducting the study for 24 years). "Domestic automakers have made impressive strides in steadily improving vehicle quality, particularly since 2007," said David Sargent, vice president of global vehicle research at J.D. Power and Associates. "This year may mark a key turning point for U.S. brands as they continue to fight the battle against lingering negative perceptions of their quality." According to J.D. Power, the industry average for initial quality is 109 problems per 100 vehicles (PP100) in 2010 (that is a slight increase from 108 PP100 in 2009). However, initial quality for domestic brands as a whole has improved to an average of 108 PP100, slightly better than the initial quality of import brands, which average 109 PP100 in 2010.
Acura made an impressive improvement in the 2010 study. The automaker climbed from 111 PP100 in 2009 to just 86 PP100 in 2010, earning second spot just under Porsche (83 PP100). Mercedes-Benz (87 PP100) earned third position with Lexus (88 PP100) immediately following. Ford (93 PP100) and Lincoln (106 PP100) also earned Top 10 positions. Interestingly enough, Toyota (117 PP100) fell from its seventh position in 2009 to 21st in the 2010 study. The complete J.D. Power press release and charts can be found after the jump and in the gallery below.
#112
The sizzle in the Steak
Initial quality studies are a nuts....look at the jump from 118 to now 109 problems on the industry average....in 2 years year.
Long term is what you want to look at.
Long term is what you want to look at.
#113
Senior Moderator
#115
The sizzle in the Steak
^^ Doesn't matter....long term they are up with the best.
#118
אני עומד עם ישראל
^ how many miles on your G now?