ProZach

it's very clear that this RL is going to become Acura's second in line. The omission of very important gizmos that are on the big boys (LS, 7, S) puts it in line perfectly with teh 5, E, and M and puts Acura in an ideal position to release a big boy car to beat up the real luxury sedans. Can justin back me up on this?

Jason

What are the important gizmos? I just see adaptive cruise missing. I'm with you on the "bad boy" sedan thing. Acura needs a true flagship now.

Junkster

IF they want to place a higher marque sedan, they are really gonna have to spend their money to make it stand above the RL.

For instance, it's gotta be larger, more powerful, more features, and gonna have to out perform the RL in driving dynamics as well. I wonder if they have something down the pipeline that we might not be aware of... highly doubt it.

Junkster, who isn't satisfied with the RL.

Raheel

IMA, V8, Adaptive Cruise Control, Ventilated Seats, theres so much its missing, I am sure they will release a higher model too, not soon though..

Does this RL have IMA or hybrid system?

Jason

It does have ventilated seats.

gocubsgo55

let's get real, honda is a conservative company, overly conservative, on the social spectrum can be considered facist .

but seriously, honda does not have the resources (AS OF YET) to build and mass produce a V8. Hybrid is another option, and a 340-380 Hp hybrid V6 just might be in what I call a "GL" (S/7/LS competator). Larger platform, where do they get that? The RL is on the Accord/TL platform already. Honda has put much much effort into two new great cars, they will keep us satisfied until they can get the goods to do battle with the big ones. But thats just my opinion. Justin??.. wats your "opinion"?

ClutchPerformer

Any car Honda tries to put above the RL won't be effective because they're not going to make a V-8. I don't think 7-series/S-class/A8/XJ8 owners are too impressed with hybrid technology. And they probably won't be until someone from my generation is old and/or financially established enough to own one.

biker

Since when is the RL on the TL/Accord platform? As far as I can tell there's no way you could just "add" that SHAWD drivetrain onto an Accord platform.

That begs the question - all of this platfrom sharing - how can you tell when one ends and another one begins? Like the new M - although Infiniti calls it based on FM platform (same as G and FX)- everything from the WB length to the suspension to all of the sheetmetal above the floor pan is different.

ClutchPerformer

Accord with SHAWD

peter_mowat

I agree.....the new RL is not up to competing with the Flagships (LS 430, 7 series, S class etc.). Acura should invest in a true flagship sedan.....but it ABSOLUTELY needs a V-8 to compete. I'm cofused as to how Honda/Acura doesn't have the resources to build such an engine. They've been around for a while now! I just don't buy it....if Toyota, Nissan etc. can do it, why can't Honda?

justinjsw

I can't back you on that one buddy.

AcuraFan

The reason why Honda doesn't have a V8 has nothing to do with resources, it has to do with company image. They don't want a V8 because it will hurt the "green" image they've worked so hard to achieve. They might be doing this at the sacrifice of profits but I'm alright with that. Sometimes a company has to stick to its philosophies and ideals. As a business owner myself, I'm not going to compromise my ideals for the sake of bigger profits. So if that means no "flagship" car Acura...then so be it...I'd never buy one anyway. As it is, the new RL is more car than I'd ever want.

biker

Clutch... just cause that video shows an Accord it doesn't mean it has the RL SHAWD nor does it mean that the RL is based on the Accord platform. The WB numbers are not the same. Like I said it should be obvious if the Accord platform is used. If there is no space for the driveshaft to go from the front of the car to the rear (driveshaft hump) then the SHAWD will not fit. If they modified the Accord platform with a driveshaft tunnel then it's not much of an Accord platform.

Another reason I don't think they used the Accord platform is that I assume the 3.5L V6 is layed out longitudinally, which would not fit in the bay of the Accord which normally has it's engines transversly mounted.

Professor Gascan

Honda has said from the start that the current Accord platform can use AWD. In fact, the TSX does in Japan. As for the WB, the TSX and TL are on the same platform, with different wheelbases. The RL is based on the Accord chassis, but based and built directly off of it are two different things. The engine is transverse in the new RL as well.

Look at it this way, the Golf and the Audi TT are on the same platform, but you'd never know it comparing their specs.

peter_mowat

Has nobody been able to make a relatively "green" V-8 yet? I don't see why it isn't possible...I mean we're talking about Honda here!

1SICKLEX

The Lexus 4.3 V-8 is ULEV compliant. It's "green".

Honda/Acura is not trying to compete with BMW/LEXUS/Benz. They are going after niches. Which is fine. But don't expect any car above the RL. Heck the RL has not even been sold here yet. Can we wait a year or 2 before we ask for another car?

Honda does not have the resources to compete either. All their cars are based on Honda's one way or another (except the NSX).

I think Acura is keeping a good strategy.

Lung Fu Mo Shi

You can, but only when it's displacement is nearly the size of a 6. For example...I could see Honda with a 4.0L V-8 or so with a long stroke and small bore for a luxo, or vice versa for a higher revving sports car.

But then it begs the question...do they need one? I have a thought that Honda themselves were asking the question between V-8 and something like IMA. I think they are betting the future on IMA.

Stevens24

Nice Camry I mean ES330 At least we aren't giving the brand away. RX330 are already at 500 over and the car just came out.

Stevens24

The reason Acura doesn't have a V8 is that when you look at companies actually sell it is mainly V6 models I'm sure the M45 will be great but my bet is that the M35 outsells it 8-1. Look at how many FX35s are sold compared to FX45s. You can't make something just to sel 500. the only reason Lexus sells so many V8s is that you need to get the V8 to ANY POWER. 290 out af a V8 and Acura gets flak for a 300 hp V6????

1SICKLEX

See, this is stupid. When the TSX is an Euro Accord, the TL is an American Accord, the RL is a stretched American Accord. Why would u make a statement like that?

RX330 is what? Wrong. Honda is about efficiency and value. For goodness sakes, LOOK AT HOW LONG IT TOOK TO GET A V-6 in the Accord????? The problem is Honda/Acura is trying to re-invent the luxury wheel. V-8s, V-10s, V-12, =rarity and luxury and smoothness no 6 cylinder can match. These engines though sold in much less numbers, bring the halo and status a luxury car brand needs.

THat is how Benz/BMW stays about Lexus prestige wise. THey offer V-12s and turbo V-8s and turbo-V-12. They may sell 1,000, but it's the fact it is available and people in C230s aspire to own one someday. Look at how we (you better be honest) drool over the new AMG cars

AcuraFan

See, it's not about making an economical V8. I mean, if it were possible, Honda could make a V8 that gets 30 mpg...but it's the big, wasteful image a V8 purpetuates that Honda is trying to avoid.

1SICKLEX

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of V-8 driving SUV owners.

biker

I think the Professor has a few things confused. The TSX is the same as the Euro/JDM Accord and is not based on the USDM Accord/TL. There is no TSX in Japan - only Accord and Inspire (based on USDM Accord). Confused?

Anyway all of this "based" becomes meanigless when the car itself looks and drives nothing like anything else "based" on the same platform.

Junkster

It's called a halo car or an image car. You don't sell a ton of it, you don't market or even price the car for high consumption. What you go after is the customers who will buy the lesser car due to it's connection with the halo car. Acura had the NSX up there for their halo, but it's gone way too long without a refreshment. The Legend in the day also served as a halo for the brand, but we know how the recent RLs have not lived up to that stature.

And there is a huge difference when you drive a 4.0 V6 compared to a 4.3 V8. The two extra cylinders ease the amount of work the engine needs to due. Honda engines are high-strung, and have to rev at high numbers for their HP, while the similar size V8s allow for power at lower rpms.

I was going to comment on the other post, but I couldn't make sense out of it.

Junkster, who thinks a 6 speed would definitely help the RL.

Stevens24

Maybe because you don't live in Cali where gas is 2.50 a gallon. A V6 which gets 24 mpg on the highway with 300 hp versus a V8 that gets 20 mpg. that's why I'm getting V8 SUVs and Mustangs, etc by the dozen as trade ins for more economical V6 vehicles. How many V8 Cars are thes companies really selling. Most E class are 320s. The 540 is maybe the only car that sells well with the V8 but it is 60k. How many V12s is Mercedes going to sell in a year?

Acura needs only average 8 RLs per dealer to sell 2000 a month. I think that shouldn't be to daunting a task.

1SICKLEX

People that buy V-8 luxury cars are not worried too much about gas prices. I know Lexus will have hybrids on all their cars in the next 5-8 years as Toyota as spent tons of money investing in this very incredible enginering.

Jason

How would you know that?

1SICKLEX

After moving up from a SC 400 to a GS 400 (which is now wrecked) and in conversations with anyone with a V-8 it is not a serious factor. The few times I've seen a thread on Clublexus or a BMW board on "My V-8 gas guzzles" or "should I use regular to save gas" those guys are blasted badly. You already know gas prices are high, you know the car is not the best with gas, why buy it if that will be a concern?

Hell, the Lincoln Town Car V-8 had 210hp for the longest. The Crown Vic for instance, people like the smoothness of the engine. I think SUVs are partly very popular B/C Americans love big engines and unless u have 50k to drop on a car, u have to get a SUV. Even the midsize 4-runner has an available V-8.

Honda has been very, very, very successful with their engines. They finally realized to make the Accord the CLASS LEADER they had to make a V-6 for it (which has gone from 170hp to 240hp).

Do u know for the RL in 1996, they decided to use the 210hp engine (instead of the type II 230hp engine) as "their" research said people don't need a V-8 or a high revving V-6, but rather more torque and hp with lower revs. Clearly, they were pretty much wrong.

Lexus IMO, failed with the 1st gen GS. Yeah it looks good and was reliable but it only offered a 225hp I-6 (in Japan, you could get the TT for 320hp). It was overlooked compared to the E and 5. The proportions were wrong too, long rear and front overhangs, the car was 194 inches long.
The 2nd gen GS is 189 in long, copied the Germans in proportions and offered the I-6 and V-8 and has been a great success.

ahhhh Rambling.

Jason

I liked that 1st gen GS. That thing still would look good today. Wasn't it an Italian company that was responsible for the styling? Gorgeous. I was hoping the 3rd gen would recapture some of that magic. I'm disappointed.

Junkster

The Italdesign group was the designers for the GS (lead by none other than Giorgio Giugiaro, IMO, the greatest auto designer in the modern era). I posted in other threads about how more companies should start looking at outside sources for design inspiration. Toyota is no exception. They need a design to stir things up and get people excited, even if it's strictly a concept. Go over the edge, get Ital or Pinin to pen something.

Junkster, who would love a Pinin designed Acura.

Professor Gascan

I'm not confused at all. The TL, Accord (US, Japanese and European), TSX, and the RL are all based off of Honda's global midsize platform. The TL and US Accord have the most in common, by all the above mentioned are off the same basic platform, much like the Civic and RSX.

eidji

To concur with Prof. Gascan, my understanding from lots of reading is that honda has basically two widely used platforms, which they build most of their vehicles off of. Below are the US vehicles.

Global compact platform:
Honda Civic, Acura RSX, Honda CR-V, Honda Element

and Global midsize platform:
Honda Accord, Acura TSX, Acura TL, (new) Acura RL, Honda Odyssey, Honda Pilot, Acura MDX

There are some unique platforms out there currently:
Honda Insight, Honda S2000, Acura NSX, (current) Acura RL

Overseas, many of the small cars are built off of the compact platform as well, such as the Fit/Jazz and the Stream (etc). The midsize platform gets some more cars too, like the JDM Odyssey (different than ours).

Yes, each of these cars in reality is fairly different, but they share key components with other platform-mates.

One noticeable difference among the midsize contenders is that the trucks get struts up front while the cars all get wishbones. Honda designed that capability into the vehicles. The suspension is a subsection of the platform that allows trades. The platform also allows the ability to add AWD and IMA components at will. The Honda factories and assembly lines are very versatile. Honda PR has stated that IMA is easily addable to both of the platform lines (verbally with the accord/midsize, and implicitly with the civic/compact).

This information was collected from reading press, media, tech discussions, etc.

kev