Hyundai: Sonata News
02-24-2010, 08:36 PM
#601
$200 for Premium white Pearl, $250 for Home link.
with navigation u get only 6.5inch screen. Music system is not par with ELS and interior and voice controls not to TSX . price is pretty close to TSX now days people getting. . same 24mpg in C&D test.
it means u floor it. Engine will make roucus and all fuel economic advanatage down the drain. i dont see any great value. this whole fuel economy is achieved in 6th gear on long drives. in short bursts it will be no better than TSX despite having 200lbs lighter. even EPA certify it 22 in city vs 21 for TSX. My previous prediction stands nothing ground breaking. long term reliability yet to be tested.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
. For that luxury, you must spend at least $26,015 for the Limited model, which also comes with dual-zone climate control, auto-dimming mirrors, vents for rear-seat passengers, and other unique, upscale bits. A $2100 Navigation package adds touch-screen nav, a rearview camera, and a premium Infinity audio system, bringing a loaded Sonata to just over $28,000.
. For that luxury, you must spend at least $26,015 for the Limited model, which also comes with dual-zone climate control, auto-dimming mirrors, vents for rear-seat passengers, and other unique, upscale bits. A $2100 Navigation package adds touch-screen nav, a rearview camera, and a premium Infinity audio system, bringing a loaded Sonata to just over $28,000.
02-24-2010, 08:48 PM
#602
Fahrvergnügen'd
Limited Model with 17inch costs $28K. through larger wheels it will easy be $30k car. There is no option to buy upgrade.
$200 for Premium white Pearl, $250 for Home link.
with navigation u get only 6.5inch screen. Music system is not par with ELS and interior and voice controls not to TSX . price is pretty close to TSX now days people getting. . same 24mpg in C&D test.
it means u floor it. Engine will make roucus and all fuel economic advanatage down the drain. i dont see any great value. this whole fuel economy is achieved in 6th gear on long drives. in short bursts it will be no better than TSX despite having 200lbs lighter. even EPA certify it 22 in city vs 21 for TSX. My previous prediction stands nothing ground breaking. long term reliability yet to be tested.
$200 for Premium white Pearl, $250 for Home link.
with navigation u get only 6.5inch screen. Music system is not par with ELS and interior and voice controls not to TSX . price is pretty close to TSX now days people getting. . same 24mpg in C&D test.
it means u floor it. Engine will make roucus and all fuel economic advanatage down the drain. i dont see any great value. this whole fuel economy is achieved in 6th gear on long drives. in short bursts it will be no better than TSX despite having 200lbs lighter. even EPA certify it 22 in city vs 21 for TSX. My previous prediction stands nothing ground breaking. long term reliability yet to be tested.
We did our oppression on the other side of the globe
02-27-2010, 12:16 PM
#603
hail to the victors
Limited Model with 17inch costs $28K. through larger wheels it will easy be $30k car. There is no option to buy upgrade.
$200 for Premium white Pearl, $250 for Home link.
with navigation u get only 6.5inch screen. Music system is not par with ELS and interior and voice controls not to TSX . price is pretty close to TSX now days people getting. . same 24mpg in C&D test.
it means u floor it. Engine will make roucus and all fuel economic advanatage down the drain. i dont see any great value. this whole fuel economy is achieved in 6th gear on long drives. in short bursts it will be no better than TSX despite having 200lbs lighter. even EPA certify it 22 in city vs 21 for TSX. My previous prediction stands nothing ground breaking. long term reliability yet to be tested.
$200 for Premium white Pearl, $250 for Home link.
with navigation u get only 6.5inch screen. Music system is not par with ELS and interior and voice controls not to TSX . price is pretty close to TSX now days people getting. . same 24mpg in C&D test.
it means u floor it. Engine will make roucus and all fuel economic advanatage down the drain. i dont see any great value. this whole fuel economy is achieved in 6th gear on long drives. in short bursts it will be no better than TSX despite having 200lbs lighter. even EPA certify it 22 in city vs 21 for TSX. My previous prediction stands nothing ground breaking. long term reliability yet to be tested.
dude, the price difference is far from similar. lol did you ever tried to buy a hyundai before?
and my buddy who bought GLS is getting 30mpg doing 50/50 easily. he did lost a drag race to TSX though.
but as far as MPG goes every owners in sonata forum is posting over 29mpg average. many gets way over 35mpg in highway. maybe all of them are collectively lying. i don't know. but i trust my best friend's word.
http://autos.aol.com/article/2011-hyundai-sonata
-another positive review. i
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/201...k=MW_news_stmp
-he got 30.1mpg
-hyundai claims 7.1 0-60
right now most people average $1000-$1500 below MSRP price. sooner or later there will be a typical hyundai discount/incentives. I've owned 3 acuras/4 hondas and 2 hyundais in last 11 years. getting a better deal on Hyundai is MUCH EASIER than cocky acura dealers.
02-27-2010, 12:27 PM
#604
hail to the victors
Maxima is not $10k more than Sonata when u look at equally equiped.
HTere is no $40k Maxima unless u want 19inch rims and superflous stuff.
regular Maxima with Navigation and standard equipment is not more than
$31k in market.
u can get some for $27K. It is a steal at this price.
http://www.dublinnissan.com/specials/new.htm
http://www.capitolnissan.com/
Sonata with 17inch limited is $28k car. and it does not beat Honda Accord in spaciouness (rear entry, headroom), comfort and quietness. does Sonata even have rear view monitor?
Maxima is leader in FWD sedan pack. It is among the quickest FWD, best handling, upscale interior (not matched by any car in its price range), unique tech features from rear solar shade to special moon roofs.
HTere is no $40k Maxima unless u want 19inch rims and superflous stuff.
regular Maxima with Navigation and standard equipment is not more than
$31k in market.
u can get some for $27K. It is a steal at this price.
http://www.dublinnissan.com/specials/new.htm
http://www.capitolnissan.com/
Sonata with 17inch limited is $28k car. and it does not beat Honda Accord in spaciouness (rear entry, headroom), comfort and quietness. does Sonata even have rear view monitor?
Maxima is leader in FWD sedan pack. It is among the quickest FWD, best handling, upscale interior (not matched by any car in its price range), unique tech features from rear solar shade to special moon roofs.
I love Maxima. I really do. I would take Maxima over TSX and TL and that's saying alot from a long time acura homer.
but saying that Maxima is better value than Sonata is just absurd. that is just wrong, dude. and please find me a maxima with nav for 31k. that's a helluva deal. but again, people are buying $2000 below msrp for sonata limited already and it just came out. you will see 3-4k grand discount probably by august or so. someone i know bought the loade sonata for 26.8k OTD. a long time board member from other forum. $1000 trade in with his camry helped though.
again, base maxima with destination starts at $31,180. so please stop it. sonata doesn't compete with maxima. it will go against in the heart of the midsize battle field. but not against v6's and maxima of the world.
02-27-2010, 12:52 PM
#605
hail to the victors
Limited Model with 17inch costs $28K. through larger wheels it will easy be $30k car. There is no option to buy upgrade.
$200 for Premium white Pearl, $250 for Home link.
with navigation u get only 6.5inch screen. Music system is not par with ELS and interior and voice controls not to TSX . price is pretty close to TSX now days people getting. . same 24mpg in C&D test.
it means u floor it. Engine will make roucus and all fuel economic advanatage down the drain. i dont see any great value. this whole fuel economy is achieved in 6th gear on long drives. in short bursts it will be no better than TSX despite having 200lbs lighter. even EPA certify it 22 in city vs 21 for TSX. My previous prediction stands nothing ground breaking. long term reliability yet to be tested.
$200 for Premium white Pearl, $250 for Home link.
with navigation u get only 6.5inch screen. Music system is not par with ELS and interior and voice controls not to TSX . price is pretty close to TSX now days people getting. . same 24mpg in C&D test.
it means u floor it. Engine will make roucus and all fuel economic advanatage down the drain. i dont see any great value. this whole fuel economy is achieved in 6th gear on long drives. in short bursts it will be no better than TSX despite having 200lbs lighter. even EPA certify it 22 in city vs 21 for TSX. My previous prediction stands nothing ground breaking. long term reliability yet to be tested.
Sonata is groundbreking to me because:
1. design - Hyundai is actually trying very hard not to be boring. sonata in my local dealer parked between genesis v8 and CC. it held it's own very well. looked great in person. couldn't believe the sticker price of 21k.
2. weight, HP, torque - name me another midsize sedan with sonata's spec. doesn't matter if it will translate to the actual driving. SPEC do matter because in engineering perspective, it's a huge groundbreaking number. i think it's too premature to say how it will stack up in the comparison test. i doubt it will finish last or finish first just because it isn't tuned like mazda6. it's a better and sportier Camry if you ask me.
3. MPG - regardless of what C/D had, majority of actual owners are posting better than advertised mpg. and 24/35 for manual 22/35 for auto leads the pack. from my best buddy's own quote 'getting 30mpg doing 50/50 is piece of cake if you drive like a grandma.'
4. size - it's actually a shorter than many midsize car, but still acquires great interior volume at 120.2. having sat in person, it's more than roomy enough. anything bigger than sonata is an overkill in the midsize segment. i hate the new accord because it feels too damn fat/big. that's one of the reason why i love my 03 accord better than the current gen. sonata doesn't look fat or bloaty in person. it's sleek, but still has plenty of the room inside. plenty for rear leg room because front leg room is just way way too much. i'm 6ft 1, and my foot barely reaches the pedal if i move the seat all the way back. hyundai was more concerned about a big tall guy sitting in the front, but not the back seat.
5. pricing - still cheaper than camry, accord, malibu, atlima and fusion. cheaper base price and comparably equipped sonata is about 2 grand cheaper than camry and accord. not bad for a car which has a better spec than all of them. just by looking at it on paper, it should cost more than those cars. Also it's 7 grand cheaper than Buick Regal. On paper, sonata beats regal in all categories. sure insgnia/regal is more sporty and will handle much better, but you still have to wonder if the buick badge is worth 7 grand more than the hyundai. maybe 3-4 years ago, but not anymore.
6. ride - it's a well balanced ride. go test drive one. no, it's not TSX. it's not a sports sedan. don't just talk about it. go and test drive it. It's a balanced ride. it's not as quiet as camry IMO. but much quieter than accord and felt faster. it's not gonna win any race. it won't out handle mazda6, legacy, or kizashi. but it's composed and it feels perfect for any family of 5. in this segment, you can't be too harsh or too soft. i think sonata is the perfect middle of the road in terms of the balance. IT'S A PERFECT AMERICAN CAR.
7. upcoming turbo/hybrid. If hyundai can deliever 250+hp and gets 34-35mpg highway then it truly will be a groundbreaking achievement. i find it hard to believe, but that's what they are aiming for and Kracik sounded very confident. for me anything better than 33mpg will be good enough.
again, sonata isn't a car for most of us. it's an ultimate FAMILY CAR. it's a 4banger for a godsake. i don't think i'll ever drive i4 again because i need power. i need at least 250hp. but for those family who wants style, value, and mpg, you can't go wrong with sonata.
02-27-2010, 01:03 PM
#606
hail to the victors
Also, I have many friend who worked/interned for hyundai/kia technology center in ann arbor. my former michgian engineering buddies. from my inside source:
MPG is the #1 priority for hyundai. MPG is the new handling. MPG is everything. the performance number is just a gravy to them. 40mpg is the new goal - Accent, Elantra, veloster, and any cars that has i4 will have a 40mpg+. well, they are setting the goal very high. not sure they will do it or not, but it's definitely doable.
that's the hyundai's new ambition keeping the fuel economy title forever. they would rather spend all their energy and money to perfect the next elantra than improving 0-60 on Genesis coupe.
Again, many of my korean buddies end up working for hyundai, hyundai mobis, and etc.. some of the brightest hyundai's young engineers are actually from my school.
MPG is the #1 priority for hyundai. MPG is the new handling. MPG is everything. the performance number is just a gravy to them. 40mpg is the new goal - Accent, Elantra, veloster, and any cars that has i4 will have a 40mpg+. well, they are setting the goal very high. not sure they will do it or not, but it's definitely doable.
that's the hyundai's new ambition keeping the fuel economy title forever. they would rather spend all their energy and money to perfect the next elantra than improving 0-60 on Genesis coupe.
Again, many of my korean buddies end up working for hyundai, hyundai mobis, and etc.. some of the brightest hyundai's young engineers are actually from my school.
02-27-2010, 01:55 PM
#607
What will be interesting is how the new Azera and Kia Cadenza do in the large, near luxury sedan segment.
Not exactly loving the styling of the new Azera, but it will definitely look more up-to-date than the Avalon (which Toyota just made uglier).
The Cadenza, otoh, will be the best-looking sedan in the segment; if Kia can get the driving dynamics close to that of the Maxima, I can see the Cadenza stealing some Maxima sales.
Even so, it's not nearly as bad as Honda totally ripping off Volvo's D-pillar taillights on the CR-V.
02-28-2010, 01:43 AM
#608
I love Maxima. I really do. I would take Maxima over TSX and TL and that's saying alot from a long time acura homer.
but saying that Maxima is better value than Sonata is just absurd. that is just wrong, dude. and please find me a maxima with nav for 31k. that's a helluva deal. but again, people are buying $2000 below msrp for sonata limited already and it just came out. you will see 3-4k grand discount probably by august or so. someone i know bought the loade sonata for 26.8k OTD. a long time board member from other forum. $1000 trade in with his camry helped though.
again, base maxima with destination starts at $31,180. so please stop it. sonata doesn't compete with maxima. it will go against in the heart of the midsize battle field. but not against v6's and maxima of the world.
but saying that Maxima is better value than Sonata is just absurd. that is just wrong, dude. and please find me a maxima with nav for 31k. that's a helluva deal. but again, people are buying $2000 below msrp for sonata limited already and it just came out. you will see 3-4k grand discount probably by august or so. someone i know bought the loade sonata for 26.8k OTD. a long time board member from other forum. $1000 trade in with his camry helped though.
again, base maxima with destination starts at $31,180. so please stop it. sonata doesn't compete with maxima. it will go against in the heart of the midsize battle field. but not against v6's and maxima of the world.
and it is already in 16month old without major updates and it lacks options like Hybrid/MT/Auto transmission.
02-28-2010, 02:12 AM
#609
Sonata is groundbreking to me because:
1. design - Hyundai is actually trying very hard not to be boring. sonata in my local dealer parked between genesis v8 and CC. it held it's own very well. looked great in person. couldn't believe the sticker price of 21k.
2. weight, HP, torque - name me another midsize sedan with sonata's spec. doesn't matter if it will translate to the actual driving. SPEC do matter because in engineering perspective, it's a huge groundbreaking number. i think it's too premature to say how it will stack up in the comparison test. i doubt it will finish last or finish first just because it isn't tuned like mazda6. it's a better and sportier Camry if you ask me.
3. MPG - regardless of what C/D had, majority of actual owners are posting better than advertised mpg. and 24/35 for manual 22/35 for auto leads the pack. from my best buddy's own quote 'getting 30mpg doing 50/50 is piece of cake if you drive like a grandma.'
4. size - it's actually a shorter than many midsize car, but still acquires great interior volume at 120.2. having sat in person, it's more than roomy enough. anything bigger than sonata is an overkill in the midsize segment. i hate the new accord because it feels too damn fat/big. that's one of the reason why i love my 03 accord better than the current gen. sonata doesn't look fat or bloaty in person. it's sleek, but still has plenty of the room inside. plenty for rear leg room because front leg room is just way way too much. i'm 6ft 1, and my foot barely reaches the pedal if i move the seat all the way back. hyundai was more concerned about a big tall guy sitting in the front, but not the back seat.
5. pricing - still cheaper than camry, accord, malibu, atlima and fusion. cheaper base price and comparably equipped sonata is about 2 grand cheaper than camry and accord. not bad for a car which has a better spec than all of them. just by looking at it on paper, it should cost more than those cars. Also it's 7 grand cheaper than Buick Regal. On paper, sonata beats regal in all categories. sure insgnia/regal is more sporty and will handle much better, but you still have to wonder if the buick badge is worth 7 grand more than the hyundai. maybe 3-4 years ago, but not anymore.
6. ride - it's a well balanced ride. go test drive one. no, it's not TSX. it's not a sports sedan. don't just talk about it. go and test drive it. It's a balanced ride. it's not as quiet as camry IMO. but much quieter than accord and felt faster. it's not gonna win any race. it won't out handle mazda6, legacy, or kizashi. but it's composed and it feels perfect for any family of 5. in this segment, you can't be too harsh or too soft. i think sonata is the perfect middle of the road in terms of the balance. IT'S A PERFECT AMERICAN CAR.
7. upcoming turbo/hybrid. If hyundai can deliever 250+hp and gets 34-35mpg highway then it truly will be a groundbreaking achievement. i find it hard to believe, but that's what they are aiming for and Kracik sounded very confident. for me anything better than 33mpg will be good enough.
again, sonata isn't a car for most of us. it's an ultimate FAMILY CAR. it's a 4banger for a godsake. i don't think i'll ever drive i4 again because i need power. i need at least 250hp. but for those family who wants style, value, and mpg, you can't go wrong with sonata.
1. design - Hyundai is actually trying very hard not to be boring. sonata in my local dealer parked between genesis v8 and CC. it held it's own very well. looked great in person. couldn't believe the sticker price of 21k.
2. weight, HP, torque - name me another midsize sedan with sonata's spec. doesn't matter if it will translate to the actual driving. SPEC do matter because in engineering perspective, it's a huge groundbreaking number. i think it's too premature to say how it will stack up in the comparison test. i doubt it will finish last or finish first just because it isn't tuned like mazda6. it's a better and sportier Camry if you ask me.
3. MPG - regardless of what C/D had, majority of actual owners are posting better than advertised mpg. and 24/35 for manual 22/35 for auto leads the pack. from my best buddy's own quote 'getting 30mpg doing 50/50 is piece of cake if you drive like a grandma.'
4. size - it's actually a shorter than many midsize car, but still acquires great interior volume at 120.2. having sat in person, it's more than roomy enough. anything bigger than sonata is an overkill in the midsize segment. i hate the new accord because it feels too damn fat/big. that's one of the reason why i love my 03 accord better than the current gen. sonata doesn't look fat or bloaty in person. it's sleek, but still has plenty of the room inside. plenty for rear leg room because front leg room is just way way too much. i'm 6ft 1, and my foot barely reaches the pedal if i move the seat all the way back. hyundai was more concerned about a big tall guy sitting in the front, but not the back seat.
5. pricing - still cheaper than camry, accord, malibu, atlima and fusion. cheaper base price and comparably equipped sonata is about 2 grand cheaper than camry and accord. not bad for a car which has a better spec than all of them. just by looking at it on paper, it should cost more than those cars. Also it's 7 grand cheaper than Buick Regal. On paper, sonata beats regal in all categories. sure insgnia/regal is more sporty and will handle much better, but you still have to wonder if the buick badge is worth 7 grand more than the hyundai. maybe 3-4 years ago, but not anymore.
6. ride - it's a well balanced ride. go test drive one. no, it's not TSX. it's not a sports sedan. don't just talk about it. go and test drive it. It's a balanced ride. it's not as quiet as camry IMO. but much quieter than accord and felt faster. it's not gonna win any race. it won't out handle mazda6, legacy, or kizashi. but it's composed and it feels perfect for any family of 5. in this segment, you can't be too harsh or too soft. i think sonata is the perfect middle of the road in terms of the balance. IT'S A PERFECT AMERICAN CAR.
7. upcoming turbo/hybrid. If hyundai can deliever 250+hp and gets 34-35mpg highway then it truly will be a groundbreaking achievement. i find it hard to believe, but that's what they are aiming for and Kracik sounded very confident. for me anything better than 33mpg will be good enough.
again, sonata isn't a car for most of us. it's an ultimate FAMILY CAR. it's a 4banger for a godsake. i don't think i'll ever drive i4 again because i need power. i need at least 250hp. but for those family who wants style, value, and mpg, you can't go wrong with sonata.
3 year old Honda Accord has same rating in city and only 4mile difference on EPA ratings. Honda car routinely beats EPA figures. so what is ground breaking about Hyundai?. u put 6 AT and make it lighter by not having V6 option in design and with 215 width tires. long term depreciation of Honda will always be better. with Honda u get more accessories and wider dealer network.
03-06-2010, 08:56 PM
#610
hail to the victors
so you are going bash sonata auto for getting 22mpg city? what about 35mpg highway?
dude, accord i4 gets 22/31. honda used to be a leader in MPG, but accord is not average. even last gen sonata gets better mileage. accord is no longer a leader in anything. and accord gets p!ss poor average compared to sonata. even though it's about 100lb lighter it has more horses and torque. i'm a life time honda/acura buyer, but right now hyundai is killing honda in every possible way.
anyway, name a midsize car with smilar power/weight ratio with 35mpg highway. you can't find any.
dude, accord i4 gets 22/31. honda used to be a leader in MPG, but accord is not average. even last gen sonata gets better mileage. accord is no longer a leader in anything. and accord gets p!ss poor average compared to sonata. even though it's about 100lb lighter it has more horses and torque. i'm a life time honda/acura buyer, but right now hyundai is killing honda in every possible way.
anyway, name a midsize car with smilar power/weight ratio with 35mpg highway. you can't find any.
03-06-2010, 09:06 PM
#611
hail to the victors
Maxima is surly better value. Maxima is sales in on course to 50K mark. and it is the most successful FWD V6 premium sedan in $30K range. consumers are not stupid. they are getting good deals so they are buying it despite lack of any fuel economic advantage and smaller size than Accord.
and it is already in 16month old without major updates and it lacks options like Hybrid/MT/Auto transmission.
and it is already in 16month old without major updates and it lacks options like Hybrid/MT/Auto transmission.
still honda sells 300k accord a year.
i'm predicting sonata to sell over 150k a year. maybe near 200k for next year when hybrid and turbo shows up.
03-07-2010, 02:45 PM
#613
so you are going bash sonata auto for getting 22mpg city? what about 35mpg highway?
dude, accord i4 gets 22/31. honda used to be a leader in MPG, but accord is not average. even last gen sonata gets better mileage. accord is no longer a leader in anything. and accord gets p!ss poor average compared to sonata. even though it's about 100lb lighter it has more horses and torque. i'm a life time honda/acura buyer, but right now hyundai is killing honda in every possible way.
anyway, name a midsize car with smilar power/weight ratio with 35mpg highway. you can't find any.
dude, accord i4 gets 22/31. honda used to be a leader in MPG, but accord is not average. even last gen sonata gets better mileage. accord is no longer a leader in anything. and accord gets p!ss poor average compared to sonata. even though it's about 100lb lighter it has more horses and torque. i'm a life time honda/acura buyer, but right now hyundai is killing honda in every possible way.
anyway, name a midsize car with smilar power/weight ratio with 35mpg highway. you can't find any.
Freeway driving measurement is meaningless as EPA mostly calculate at under 65mph with too much constant avg speed. and we dont know how much time each drive is?. Is it 10 minutes? 1hour? etc.
for example on long drive my TSX gets 35mpg (long drive means longer than 20 minutes with speeds upto 80mph).
but on short drives of less than 15 minutes on same freeway i get about 32mpg. i enter the ramp at 40mph and floor it up to 80mph and than i slow down to 40mph for exit in few minutes. So it more depends on conditions of rapid acceleration/decellearation and duration of drive. EPA dont take into account so much variations.
Value of car depends on what u get for what u pay and Maxima is best value for those in $30 range. and in $20k range there alot of options like Accord/Altima. there is nothing ground breaking about Sonata. etc.
03-07-2010, 02:56 PM
#614
you can check the avg reporting of 2009 TSX vs 2009 Sonata. It is beating Sonata based on consumer inputs of averages. but EPA rating of 2009 Sonata is higher than TSX for 2.4L 5speed Auto.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
for 2010 Sonata at best will match 2009 TSX figures in real life.
03-08-2010, 11:33 AM
#616
Safety Car
Accord is cheaper than Maxima and its audience is larger. by next year there will be MMC for Accord (with possbile 6speed auto) and Honda is going to introduce hybrids also in larger cars. so there wont be any advantage for Sonata next year. Sonata dont give u V6 option. Accord V6 is very efficient on freeway speeds.
you can check the avg reporting of 2009 TSX vs 2009 Sonata. It is beating Sonata based on consumer inputs of averages. but EPA rating of 2009 Sonata is higher than TSX for 2.4L 5speed Auto.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
for 2010 Sonata at best will match 2009 TSX figures in real life.
you can check the avg reporting of 2009 TSX vs 2009 Sonata. It is beating Sonata based on consumer inputs of averages. but EPA rating of 2009 Sonata is higher than TSX for 2.4L 5speed Auto.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
for 2010 Sonata at best will match 2009 TSX figures in real life.
03-08-2010, 09:24 PM
#617
this thread would be less cluttered if you'd all just put him on ignore
03-08-2010, 11:32 PM
#618
hail to the victors
Accord is one average 200lbs heavier car with 225 standard tires. and still it get 22mpg on city driving. and it is introduced 3 years ago and with legendry long term Honda reliability. I am not sure about DI engine long term effects. Honda study dont suppor it.
Freeway driving measurement is meaningless as EPA mostly calculate at under 65mph with too much constant avg speed. and we dont know how much time each drive is?. Is it 10 minutes? 1hour? etc.
for example on long drive my TSX gets 35mpg (long drive means longer than 20 minutes with speeds upto 80mph).
but on short drives of less than 15 minutes on same freeway i get about 32mpg. i enter the ramp at 40mph and floor it up to 80mph and than i slow down to 40mph for exit in few minutes. So it more depends on conditions of rapid acceleration/decellearation and duration of drive. EPA dont take into account so much variations.
Value of car depends on what u get for what u pay and Maxima is best value for those in $30 range. and in $20k range there alot of options like Accord/Altima. there is nothing ground breaking about Sonata. etc.
Freeway driving measurement is meaningless as EPA mostly calculate at under 65mph with too much constant avg speed. and we dont know how much time each drive is?. Is it 10 minutes? 1hour? etc.
for example on long drive my TSX gets 35mpg (long drive means longer than 20 minutes with speeds upto 80mph).
but on short drives of less than 15 minutes on same freeway i get about 32mpg. i enter the ramp at 40mph and floor it up to 80mph and than i slow down to 40mph for exit in few minutes. So it more depends on conditions of rapid acceleration/decellearation and duration of drive. EPA dont take into account so much variations.
Value of car depends on what u get for what u pay and Maxima is best value for those in $30 range. and in $20k range there alot of options like Accord/Altima. there is nothing ground breaking about Sonata. etc.
actually the weight difference is not 200lb. last time i checked sonata's curb is 3199lb. accord is 3269lb. and doesn't matter if accord is 3269lb or 3400lb. it still gets 22/31 regardless.
and i don't believe TSX gets 35mpg on highway. please prove it. i know about 12 TSXs that i know of(my friends, cousins, and etc) and i don't ever recall people getting 35mpg on highway. if your TSX or whoever TSX gets 35mpg, good for them. but i'll believe it when i see it. i know there are tons of TSX owners here, but please prove me wrong. I never got 35mpg on my wife's 2006 civic LX on highway. Never. we always got slightly less than the advertised number. 33-34mpg to be exact. I have hard time believing TSX getting better mileage then my wife's 06 civic LX. my wife's civic averaged 28-29mpg doing 50/50. i don't have a heavy foot. i drive like a grandma.
anyway, EPA rating for TSX auto is 21/30 while drinking premium. it is still far away from sonata which 24/35 for manual and 22/35 for auto. TSX manual gets 20/28. that's a huge difference. if someone can get 35mpg(beating the standard rating by 5) then i'm sure someone can get 40mpg on sonata. standard testing is there for a reason.
03-08-2010, 11:37 PM
#619
03-08-2010, 11:49 PM
#620
hail to the victors
Accord is cheaper than Maxima and its audience is larger. by next year there will be MMC for Accord (with possbile 6speed auto) and Honda is going to introduce hybrids also in larger cars. so there wont be any advantage for Sonata next year. Sonata dont give u V6 option. Accord V6 is very efficient on freeway speeds.
you can check the avg reporting of 2009 TSX vs 2009 Sonata. It is beating Sonata based on consumer inputs of averages. but EPA rating of 2009 Sonata is higher than TSX for 2.4L 5speed Auto.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
for 2010 Sonata at best will match 2009 TSX figures in real life.
you can check the avg reporting of 2009 TSX vs 2009 Sonata. It is beating Sonata based on consumer inputs of averages. but EPA rating of 2009 Sonata is higher than TSX for 2.4L 5speed Auto.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
for 2010 Sonata at best will match 2009 TSX figures in real life.
dude 8 people posted those numbers for TSX. 6 for auto and 2 for manual. for sonata it's just 1 person on manual and only 18 people on auto. that's a very small dose. who knows how accurate these numbers are.
also, why are you even bringing up 2009? 2011 sonata isn't 2009. and i don't think sonata will ever beat accord in terms of sales. selling 300k+ a year is no joke. i think sonata will max out at 200k. still good enough to be top 4 IMO.
and if you trying to imply TSX is more economical than new sonata, you won't win many friends. numbers don't lie.
24/35> 20/28
22/35>21/30
i sound like an acura/honda hater. lol. i personally owned 5 acura/honda in last 9 years. 01 acura cls, 2 civics, 03 MDX, and 03 accord. i love the brand. i used to be a total acura/honda homer. but you gotta admit, hyundai is spanking honda top to bottom right now. go test drive genesis coupe, Sorento, Tucson, and sonata. you will see why honda is shiitng their pants right now.
03-09-2010, 07:28 PM
#621
Senior Moderator
actually the weight difference is not 200lb. last time i checked sonata's curb is 3199lb. accord is 3269lb. and doesn't matter if accord is 3269lb or 3400lb. it still gets 22/31 regardless.
and i don't believe TSX gets 35mpg on highway. please prove it. i know about 12 TSXs that i know of(my friends, cousins, and etc) and i don't ever recall people getting 35mpg on highway. if your TSX or whoever TSX gets 35mpg, good for them. but i'll believe it when i see it. i know there are tons of TSX owners here, but please prove me wrong. I never got 35mpg on my wife's 2006 civic LX on highway. Never. we always got slightly less than the advertised number. 33-34mpg to be exact. I have hard time believing TSX getting better mileage then my wife's 06 civic LX. my wife's civic averaged 28-29mpg doing 50/50. i don't have a heavy foot. i drive like a grandma.
anyway, EPA rating for TSX auto is 21/30 while drinking premium. it is still far away from sonata which 24/35 for manual and 22/35 for auto. TSX manual gets 20/28. that's a huge difference. if someone can get 35mpg(beating the standard rating by 5) then i'm sure someone can get 40mpg on sonata. standard testing is there for a reason.
and i don't believe TSX gets 35mpg on highway. please prove it. i know about 12 TSXs that i know of(my friends, cousins, and etc) and i don't ever recall people getting 35mpg on highway. if your TSX or whoever TSX gets 35mpg, good for them. but i'll believe it when i see it. i know there are tons of TSX owners here, but please prove me wrong. I never got 35mpg on my wife's 2006 civic LX on highway. Never. we always got slightly less than the advertised number. 33-34mpg to be exact. I have hard time believing TSX getting better mileage then my wife's 06 civic LX. my wife's civic averaged 28-29mpg doing 50/50. i don't have a heavy foot. i drive like a grandma.
anyway, EPA rating for TSX auto is 21/30 while drinking premium. it is still far away from sonata which 24/35 for manual and 22/35 for auto. TSX manual gets 20/28. that's a huge difference. if someone can get 35mpg(beating the standard rating by 5) then i'm sure someone can get 40mpg on sonata. standard testing is there for a reason.
Granted, I have not achieved 35 mpg since then, but I've come close with a couple trips around 32-33 mpg. I don't do long trips very often so it's hard to say if I could do it again, since I just don't get the chance. But it is definitely possible. You just have to be light on the gas and lucky to not get into traffic jams.
I have noticed a decrease in the mpg in the last year or two, though....both city and hwy. I used to have no problem getting 24-25 mpg in 'rural' driving (not quite city), and easily achieved 30 mpg with a little hwy driving mixed in. Now I seem to be getting 22 mpg rural and 27-28 hwy. Car is 6 years old now, not sure if that has anything to do with it.
03-10-2010, 08:44 AM
#622
actually the weight difference is not 200lb. last time i checked sonata's curb is 3199lb. accord is 3269lb. and doesn't matter if accord is 3269lb or 3400lb. it still gets 22/31 regardless.
and i don't believe TSX gets 35mpg on highway. please prove it. i know about 12 TSXs that i know of(my friends, cousins, and etc) and i don't ever recall people getting 35mpg on highway. if your TSX or whoever TSX gets 35mpg, good for them. but i'll believe it when i see it. i know there are tons of TSX owners here, but please prove me wrong. I never got 35mpg on my wife's 2006 civic LX on highway. Never. we always got slightly less than the advertised number. 33-34mpg to be exact. I have hard time believing TSX getting better mileage then my wife's 06 civic LX. my wife's civic averaged 28-29mpg doing 50/50. i don't have a heavy foot. i drive like a grandma.
anyway, EPA rating for TSX auto is 21/30 while drinking premium. it is still far away from sonata which 24/35 for manual and 22/35 for auto. TSX manual gets 20/28. that's a huge difference. if someone can get 35mpg(beating the standard rating by 5) then i'm sure someone can get 40mpg on sonata. standard testing is there for a reason.
and i don't believe TSX gets 35mpg on highway. please prove it. i know about 12 TSXs that i know of(my friends, cousins, and etc) and i don't ever recall people getting 35mpg on highway. if your TSX or whoever TSX gets 35mpg, good for them. but i'll believe it when i see it. i know there are tons of TSX owners here, but please prove me wrong. I never got 35mpg on my wife's 2006 civic LX on highway. Never. we always got slightly less than the advertised number. 33-34mpg to be exact. I have hard time believing TSX getting better mileage then my wife's 06 civic LX. my wife's civic averaged 28-29mpg doing 50/50. i don't have a heavy foot. i drive like a grandma.
anyway, EPA rating for TSX auto is 21/30 while drinking premium. it is still far away from sonata which 24/35 for manual and 22/35 for auto. TSX manual gets 20/28. that's a huge difference. if someone can get 35mpg(beating the standard rating by 5) then i'm sure someone can get 40mpg on sonata. standard testing is there for a reason.
Engine is only spinning at 2500rpm and combined with very efficient drag. (1G TSX has cd of 0.26 in 2002. which was world record for passenger car).
Civic/Fit are sutitable for under 60mph and city driving. the moment it goes towards 70mph they lose all fuel efficiency advantage.
Sonata in 2011 is 0.28.
03-11-2010, 01:56 AM
#623
hail to the victors
again, these standard testing is there for a reason. i'm sure someone will average over 30mpg on sonata, but some with a heavy foot will average 25mpg.
anyway check this out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si80R...eature=channel
korean spec 2.0 with aftermarket exhaust.
anyway check this out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si80R...eature=channel
korean spec 2.0 with aftermarket exhaust.
03-11-2010, 02:03 AM
#624
hail to the victors
not sure how accurate this is. 0-60 7.2 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR9C0...eature=related
edmunds got 7.7 second for GLS. not bad considering edmunds known for being notriously slow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR9C0...eature=related
edmunds got 7.7 second for GLS. not bad considering edmunds known for being notriously slow.
03-13-2010, 11:33 PM
#627
wut.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rowland Heights, CA
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wow, that looks great. I would probably debate the kia in the front and have it lowered. Then it would look like a beast.
I saw the new sonata on the road and had to do a double take. Looked aggressive, I loved it.
I saw the new sonata on the road and had to do a double take. Looked aggressive, I loved it.
03-16-2010, 01:45 AM
#631
Maxima is surly better value. Maxima is sales in on course to 50K mark. and it is the most successful FWD V6 premium sedan in $30K range. consumers are not stupid. they are getting good deals so they are buying it despite lack of any fuel economic advantage and smaller size than Accord.
and it is already in 16month old without major updates and it lacks options like Hybrid/MT/Auto transmission.
and it is already in 16month old without major updates and it lacks options like Hybrid/MT/Auto transmission.
Yes, the Maxima is selling relatively well for a vehicle in the large, FWD near luxury segment, but that's b/c there simply isn't much competition (and sales still pale in comparison to the mid-size leaders).
The Avalon is a snore and just got uglier, the Impala is ancient and the Azera is an afterthought.
The only real competition that the Maxima has is w/ the new Taurus and (surprise) sales of the Taurus avg about 4,500 per month (wow! that's Maxima territory! I guess that makes the Taurus a "better value" than the Sonata as well).
W/ the new Azera and possibly Kia Cadenza on the way, I'm sure the value element of both brands won't come into play w/ regard to the Maxima - lol.
*******
Anyway, here are some real life photos of the new Optima.
The front end looks better in these photos than in the renderings, more aggressive-looking; the taillights are still too funky, tho.
03-16-2010, 09:08 AM
#633
Saying the Maxima is a better value than the Sonata is also saying the Maxima is a better value than either the Accord or Camry; but the Maxima is hardly stealing sales from either.
Yes, the Maxima is selling relatively well for a vehicle in the large, FWD near luxury segment, but that's b/c there simply isn't much competition (and sales still pale in comparison to the mid-size leaders).
The Avalon is a snore and just got uglier, the Impala is ancient and the Azera is an afterthought.
The only real competition that the Maxima has is w/ the new Taurus and (surprise) sales of the Taurus avg about 4,500 per month (wow! that's Maxima territory! I guess that makes the Taurus a "better value" than the Sonata as well).
W/ the new Azera and possibly Kia Cadenza on the way, I'm sure the value element of both brands won't come into play w/ regard to the Maxima - lol.
*******
Anyway, here are some real life photos of the new Optima.
The front end looks better in these photos than in the renderings, more aggressive-looking; the taillights are still too funky, tho.
Yes, the Maxima is selling relatively well for a vehicle in the large, FWD near luxury segment, but that's b/c there simply isn't much competition (and sales still pale in comparison to the mid-size leaders).
The Avalon is a snore and just got uglier, the Impala is ancient and the Azera is an afterthought.
The only real competition that the Maxima has is w/ the new Taurus and (surprise) sales of the Taurus avg about 4,500 per month (wow! that's Maxima territory! I guess that makes the Taurus a "better value" than the Sonata as well).
W/ the new Azera and possibly Kia Cadenza on the way, I'm sure the value element of both brands won't come into play w/ regard to the Maxima - lol.
*******
Anyway, here are some real life photos of the new Optima.
The front end looks better in these photos than in the renderings, more aggressive-looking; the taillights are still too funky, tho.
So ur definitely wrong about it size. Taurus/Avalon or even Accord are larger.
03-16-2010, 10:05 AM
#634
Safety Car
it is funny how all you try to do is bash on sonata
can you share any good things about it?
not that anybody really care about your opinions here (a lot of people muted you already if you didn't know)....
can you share any good things about it?
not that anybody really care about your opinions here (a lot of people muted you already if you didn't know)....
03-16-2010, 10:17 AM
#635
Senior Moderator
Maxima is same size as Sonata it is not bigger. thats why it can compete with higher end models of Sonata on value. Once Maxima offers more engine and tranmssion choices its sales can go higher. (there is possiblity of 2.5L V6 like Infinit G25)
So ur definitely wrong about it size. Taurus/Avalon or even Accord are larger.
So ur definitely wrong about it size. Taurus/Avalon or even Accord are larger.
Between you and my idiot co-worker who thinks the Sonata is a Corolla/Civic competitor, I'm close to banging my head against the wall.
Last edited by dom; 03-16-2010 at 11:16 AM.
03-16-2010, 08:56 PM
#637
Civic and Sonata has exactly the same rear leg room. there is only one inch difference in rear head room and shoulder room dont matter as only 4 people can be comfortably seated.
What will some one chose for daily driver.
$23K GLS Auto Sonata navi or $23K Honda Civic EX-L with Auto navigation. navigation.
from leather trimmed leather heated seats and mirrors to leather steering wheel to standard 16 inch. alloys, stereo anti theft. Honda wins hands down.
from MT to Edmunds have already done fuel economic tests. and Sonata is not beating Honda Accord in any of the tests. so how it is going to beat Honda Civic in Fuel economy. and Sonata is not much quieter than Civic at highway speeds to make a difference.
The dont sell Asian Civic in NA but its very beautiful car 5 years after its introduction. extremely aerodynamic one piece design.
03-16-2010, 10:49 PM
#638
hail to the victors
dude, please just stop it. you sound like an absolute moron.
you've never even sat on sonata. i have 07 civic SI. SONATA IS GIGANTIC COMPARED TO CIVIC.
sonata has the class leading front room. i'm 6ft 1 with long legs and i can't even reach the pedal if the seat is all the way back. sonata's rear is only 34 inch because front is just huge. just tell them to move up. unless you are 6ft 8, no one will ever put seats all the way back.
don't comment on sonata unless you actually saw or driven one.
and dude, maxima is positioned against sporty 30k+ sedan.
you've never even sat on sonata. i have 07 civic SI. SONATA IS GIGANTIC COMPARED TO CIVIC.
sonata has the class leading front room. i'm 6ft 1 with long legs and i can't even reach the pedal if the seat is all the way back. sonata's rear is only 34 inch because front is just huge. just tell them to move up. unless you are 6ft 8, no one will ever put seats all the way back.
don't comment on sonata unless you actually saw or driven one.
and dude, maxima is positioned against sporty 30k+ sedan.
03-16-2010, 10:50 PM
#639
hail to the victors
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8FOpDZM8BI
sonata's 0-60 7.2 seconds.
probably not 100% accurate, but even my buddy who is a horrible driver is getting below 8 seconds easily.
sonata's 0-60 7.2 seconds.
probably not 100% accurate, but even my buddy who is a horrible driver is getting below 8 seconds easily.