General Motors: Development and Technology News
02-18-2009, 07:37 PM
#81
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
so... GM... you think that's your problem huh?
02-18-2009, 07:45 PM
#82
With GM losing money the way it is I'm not surprised. And begging for taxpayer handouts for it's very survival while continuing to support the development of high performance or halo vehicles would have appeared to have been very hypocritical.
Terry
Terry
02-18-2009, 08:28 PM
#84
AZ Community Team
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SVT wins!!
02-18-2009, 08:54 PM
#86
Terry
02-19-2009, 06:47 AM
#89
does this mean we have another Toyota on our hands?
no more cars with V8s that have stump-ripping torque for an affordable price anymore. The only offerings from Ford and Dodge I would take are the Mustang and the Challenger. Anything else with a V8 and manual transmission costs too much.
02-19-2009, 07:17 AM
#90
Racer
turrible, turrible
They just move to slow. After the retro Mustang, GM decides to redo the Camaro and it took FOREVER. Same with the Challenger, although faster than Chevy. By the time they hit the market, the market has shifted dramatically away from V8's.....
They just move to slow. After the retro Mustang, GM decides to redo the Camaro and it took FOREVER. Same with the Challenger, although faster than Chevy. By the time they hit the market, the market has shifted dramatically away from V8's.....
02-19-2009, 07:35 AM
#91
Senior Moderator
02-19-2009, 08:43 AM
#92
dɐɹɔ ǝɥʇ ʇɐɥʍ
I love how people on forums think they are the "average" buyer. As Terry alluded to we are not the car buying majority and in things that we want/like are often not what the masses want/like. In short, if more of us were like Jesal and bought more vehicles none of this would be happening!
02-19-2009, 09:27 AM
#95
Oderint dum metuant.
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Just when GM was starting to make some smart moves, they make this boneheaded decision. Detroit needs to figure it out; the problems are the unions, not the money spent developing halo cars. This is particularly true at GM and Ford, who have considerably improved their products in the last few years (admittedly, GM more than Ford). Chrysler has shown a few gems in the last few months, but they're still behind.
It seems simple to me; keep the halos to attract attention. With the attention, people (regular Joe's and enthusiasts) will see you've improved the quality of your regular cars and buy them. Get rid of the unions to significantly lower your operating costs, and those regular cars you sell to the regular Joe's will be profitable.
It seems simple to me; keep the halos to attract attention. With the attention, people (regular Joe's and enthusiasts) will see you've improved the quality of your regular cars and buy them. Get rid of the unions to significantly lower your operating costs, and those regular cars you sell to the regular Joe's will be profitable.
02-19-2009, 09:31 AM
#96
Oderint dum metuant.
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Yes, it is annoying when people don't copy and paste, isn't it? That and I'm lazy and hate having to click links.
General Motors scraps high-performance division
General Motors has disbanded its High Performance Vehicle Operations unit, which was responsible for creating such vehicles as the Cadillac CTS-V, Corvette ZR1, and Pontiac G8 GXP. GM’s high-performance vehicles will not be discontinued, but future replacements to these cars might never materialize. In other words, when GM’s existing high-performance models reach the end of planned production, they could be gone for good.
All high-performance vehicles currently under development have been shelved. It is not clear if this includes cars like the Cadillac CTS-V Coupe, which is probably very close to being completed.
“All high-performance projects are on indefinite hold,” spokesman Vince Muniga told Automotive News. “The engineers are moving into different areas of the organization, and they will work on Cadillacs, Buicks, Chevrolets and Pontiacs.”
Muniga added there are no longer any plans for performance-oriented variants of any upcoming cars.
General Motors has disbanded its High Performance Vehicle Operations unit, which was responsible for creating such vehicles as the Cadillac CTS-V, Corvette ZR1, and Pontiac G8 GXP. GM’s high-performance vehicles will not be discontinued, but future replacements to these cars might never materialize. In other words, when GM’s existing high-performance models reach the end of planned production, they could be gone for good.
All high-performance vehicles currently under development have been shelved. It is not clear if this includes cars like the Cadillac CTS-V Coupe, which is probably very close to being completed.
“All high-performance projects are on indefinite hold,” spokesman Vince Muniga told Automotive News. “The engineers are moving into different areas of the organization, and they will work on Cadillacs, Buicks, Chevrolets and Pontiacs.”
Muniga added there are no longer any plans for performance-oriented variants of any upcoming cars.
02-19-2009, 09:34 AM
#97
General Motors has disbanded its High Performance Vehicle Operations unit, which was responsible for creating such vehicles as the Cadillac CTS-V, Corvette ZR1, and Pontiac G8 GXP. GM’s high-performance vehicles will not be discontinued, but future replacements to these cars might never materialize. In other words, when GM’s existing high-performance models reach the end of planned production, they could be gone for good.
All high-performance vehicles currently under development have been shelved. It is not clear if this includes cars like the Cadillac CTS-V Coupe, which is probably very close to being completed.
“All high-performance projects are on indefinite hold,” spokesman Vince Muniga told Automotive News. “The engineers are moving into different areas of the organization, and they will work on Cadillacs, Buicks, Chevrolets and Pontiacs.”
Muniga added there are no longer any plans for performance-oriented variants of any upcoming cars.
All high-performance vehicles currently under development have been shelved. It is not clear if this includes cars like the Cadillac CTS-V Coupe, which is probably very close to being completed.
“All high-performance projects are on indefinite hold,” spokesman Vince Muniga told Automotive News. “The engineers are moving into different areas of the organization, and they will work on Cadillacs, Buicks, Chevrolets and Pontiacs.”
Muniga added there are no longer any plans for performance-oriented variants of any upcoming cars.
EDIT: refreshing fail
02-19-2009, 09:38 AM
#98
I love how people on forums think they are the "average" buyer. As Terry alluded to we are not the car buying majority and in things that we want/like are often not what the masses want/like. In short, if more of us were like Jesal and bought more vehicles none of this would be happening!
No one has said we are the average consumer. How can GM prove to the consumer that they make a great product, if they scrap the division that makes their best products?
02-19-2009, 09:39 AM
#99
What Would Don Draper Do?
02-19-2009, 09:45 AM
#100
dɐɹɔ ǝɥʇ ʇɐɥʍ
Their bread in butter are the mass market sedans and SUV's, if they can put more R&D and create a higher quality, more competitive mass market vehicles they are more likely to sell them in higher volumes. Potentially gaining significantly larger market share then a new high performance, limited production vette would offer. Their image may suffer, but if the company pulls through, offers better products that sell in higher volumes it is the right business move. I see hundreds of Malibu's, Impala's, Tahoe's and Trailblazers every time I leave my house. I have yet to see a new CTS-V or ZR-1 on the road, as much as these cars are bad ass they don't sell well enough to justify the expense of making them, in particular in these tough times.
02-19-2009, 09:55 AM
#101
Senior Moderator
Yet another sad moment in automotive history. 
iTimmy, while it's true that specialised models like the CTS-V and ZR-1 not sell enough in themselves to justify the cost of their own existence, they are niche vehicles and do serve to demonstrate the capabilities of GM. (Same could be said of MB, BMW and Audi with their AMG, M and RS/S series vehicles.) Sidenote: I've seen more of the 2G CTS-Vs around here than I ever have of the 1G....but then again, I live an area that is more affluent (Somerset county NJ) than yours.
iTimmy, while it's true that specialised models like the CTS-V and ZR-1 not sell enough in themselves to justify the cost of their own existence, they are niche vehicles and do serve to demonstrate the capabilities of GM. (Same could be said of MB, BMW and Audi with their AMG, M and RS/S series vehicles.) Sidenote: I've seen more of the 2G CTS-Vs around here than I ever have of the 1G....but then again, I live an area that is more affluent (Somerset county NJ) than yours.
02-19-2009, 12:14 PM
#104
Suzuka Master
Plus what the high performance vehicles do is add +1 rep to the non-high performance versions. Most people don't know the difference between the Corvette LT1 and the Corvette ZR-1, but when the ZR-1 is gone and all that is left is the LT1, the whole nameplate suffers.
It is worse for Cadilac, who is just getting over being "grandpa's car" and is becoming more mainstreamed, now moving backwards once again.
I am not at all convinced that this is a good move.
It is worse for Cadilac, who is just getting over being "grandpa's car" and is becoming more mainstreamed, now moving backwards once again.
I am not at all convinced that this is a good move.
02-19-2009, 01:28 PM
#106
Oderint dum metuant.
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Update
DETROIT — General Motors may have scrapped its High Performance Vehicle Operations unit as part of a broader cost-saving program, but it hustled to reassure Inside Line on Thursday that some of the company's crown jewels are "safe."
When asked if the demise of High Performance Vehicle Operations meant the end of the road for such vehicles as the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, company spokesman Vince Muniga said: "No. You've got the Camaro SS coming out. It is not threatened at all."
"Camaro SS, Corvette ZR1 and Corvette Z06 are all regularly engineered cars," Muniga explained. "They did not go through HPVO. Most people did not realize that. They are safe."
HPVO created such products as the V-Series Cadillacs, the Chevrolet Cobalt SS and the HHR SS.
"The [Cadillac] CTS-V is a regular part of the CTS lineup, and that will stay for the foreseeable future," Munigan said. "The CTS-V will continue through the life cycle of the product. If they are regular production cars, they will continue through the model run, whether it's an SS Cobalt or an SS HHR." He would not give a timetable for when such vehicles would be eliminated or when the regular production run is scheduled to end.
HPVO was made up of approximately 60 engineers working out of GM's Warren Tech Center. Muniga said none of them have been laid off. Instead, they have been placed "in other areas of the organization."
"We're not going to let those talents go to waste," he said.
But, Muniga emphasized that "all high-performance projects are on indefinite hold."
"Due to economic circumstances, we are focusing on core products — passenger cars and crossover vehicles," he said. "Those are vehicles we are putting all of our resources behind."
Referring to HPVO's crosstown rival, Ford's SVT team, Muniga noted that the Dearborn automaker put SVT on hiatus for a time. "Ford SVT did the same thing a few years ago and they are back," he said, holding out the prospect that HPVO may be revived at some point. "This is an indefinite hiatus."
When asked if the demise of High Performance Vehicle Operations meant the end of the road for such vehicles as the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, company spokesman Vince Muniga said: "No. You've got the Camaro SS coming out. It is not threatened at all."
"Camaro SS, Corvette ZR1 and Corvette Z06 are all regularly engineered cars," Muniga explained. "They did not go through HPVO. Most people did not realize that. They are safe."
HPVO created such products as the V-Series Cadillacs, the Chevrolet Cobalt SS and the HHR SS.
"The [Cadillac] CTS-V is a regular part of the CTS lineup, and that will stay for the foreseeable future," Munigan said. "The CTS-V will continue through the life cycle of the product. If they are regular production cars, they will continue through the model run, whether it's an SS Cobalt or an SS HHR." He would not give a timetable for when such vehicles would be eliminated or when the regular production run is scheduled to end.
HPVO was made up of approximately 60 engineers working out of GM's Warren Tech Center. Muniga said none of them have been laid off. Instead, they have been placed "in other areas of the organization."
"We're not going to let those talents go to waste," he said.
But, Muniga emphasized that "all high-performance projects are on indefinite hold."
"Due to economic circumstances, we are focusing on core products — passenger cars and crossover vehicles," he said. "Those are vehicles we are putting all of our resources behind."
Referring to HPVO's crosstown rival, Ford's SVT team, Muniga noted that the Dearborn automaker put SVT on hiatus for a time. "Ford SVT did the same thing a few years ago and they are back," he said, holding out the prospect that HPVO may be revived at some point. "This is an indefinite hiatus."
02-19-2009, 01:31 PM
#107
dɐɹɔ ǝɥʇ ʇɐɥʍ
Sometimes the bean counters win, nothing we can do about it. As a bean counter of sorts myself I think it probably was a wise choice. Time will tell who is right, bottom line is things are not going well at GM and action had to be made. What were they suppose to do, discontinue the Malibu and focus on a replacement ZR-1?
02-19-2009, 01:53 PM
#108
Senior Moderator
02-19-2009, 01:56 PM
#109
Senior Moderator
I love how people on forums think they are the "average" buyer. As Terry alluded to we are not the car buying majority and in things that we want/like are often not what the masses want/like. In short, if more of us were like Jesal and bought more vehicles none of this would be happening!
I havent bought American cars.
Wonder if this means the CTS-V will sold at cheap prices.
02-19-2009, 02:05 PM
#112
The sizzle in the Steak
GM won't kill the Union...and for certain the fed gov't. won't kill the Union.....so GM has to cut the fat.
02-19-2009, 02:07 PM
#113
Senior Moderator
High Performance division is doomed either way.
No way they can keep that alive after filing for chapter 11. Which is really the only way to deal with the Union.
Im not shocked to see it being the first to go. We all know the sport car market died down big time. Why invest in it when the government you are borrowing money from is demanding better fuel alternative cars.
Screwed all around
02-19-2009, 02:16 PM
#114
boost owns
I'm not a fan of the unions either, but being realistic, there's no way they'll ever manage to get rid of those. So they have to make the concessions necessary to stay in business... unfortunately, the Performance Unit happens to be one of those concessions.
02-19-2009, 02:23 PM
#115
an asshole from florida
they just need to lay their foot down and tell the union enough is enough this is how things are going, theyve given them too much and now the union thinks they deserve everything
02-19-2009, 02:26 PM
#116
boost owns
I just laugh when I see how much some union people make, depending on their pay grade. And then I get sad, because I realize that going to college and getting a good job actually leaves me making less than a dude whose entire function is putting a hinge on a door for 8 hours a day.
02-19-2009, 02:36 PM
#117
dɐɹɔ ǝɥʇ ʇɐɥʍ
02-19-2009, 02:45 PM
#118
One on the right for me
I just laugh when I see how much some union people make, depending on their pay grade. And then I get sad, because I realize that going to college and getting a good job actually leaves me making less than a dude whose entire function is putting a hinge on a door for 8 hours a day.
02-19-2009, 04:52 PM
#120
boost owns
Me personally? I don't honestly. At the end of the day it doesn't affect me. What it does affect, however, is the fact that the unions have milked the automakers dry, which in turn (with help from the banks, naturally) fucks up the economy, which then affects... everyone.