Ethanol: News and Discussion Thread
#122
/\/\/\
tore down the carbs on my fathers bike this past weekend, and what did we find?
a dark orange goo that kinda feels like oil but is also sticky. lot of the jets and the float needles were clogged or stuck. the fuel pump was even clogged with this nasty stuff.
once everything was cleaned the bike ran perfectly and started right up.
all because of ETHANOL....now mine gets broken down next weekend. this crap is corrosive and nastly
tore down the carbs on my fathers bike this past weekend, and what did we find?
a dark orange goo that kinda feels like oil but is also sticky. lot of the jets and the float needles were clogged or stuck. the fuel pump was even clogged with this nasty stuff.
once everything was cleaned the bike ran perfectly and started right up.
all because of ETHANOL....now mine gets broken down next weekend. this crap is corrosive and nastly
#124
Opposition mounts for ethanol increase
Although most industry experts universally agree that corn-based fuels are not the answer to our nation’s energy dilemma, the Environmental Protection Agency is currently considering a measure that would require a significant bump in ethanol usage. Originally spurred by corn-producing states, many of the world’s automakers – along with representatives from several other industries — are now speaking out against the proposed legislation.
The EPA has until December 1 to rule on a request to increase the amount of ethanol that can be mixed with gasoline from 10 percent to 15 percent, but strong opposition from the automobile industry could ultimately delay the decision making process. Although most pumps across the country now carry E10 – a 10 percent mix of ethanol – automakers warn that more research needs to be done to determine if older engines will be able to handle the 15 percent blend without damage.
Although corn-producing states are partly responsible for the E15 push, Congress’ recent ethanol requirements are largely behind the legislation. Congress has required that the United States must use 11 million gallons of ethanol by 2010 and 36 billion gallons by 2022. However, even if every gas station in America were to carry the current standard E10, the U.S. would still fall short – by more than half – of the 2022 requirement, according to The Detroit News.
Automakers aren’t completed against the switch to E15, but insist more research must be done to ensure the blend doesn’t damage or disable vehicles not built with the E15 standard in mind. In a letter to Congress, the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers – which includes the Big Three, Toyota and seven other automakers – said the idea “is premature, and since EPA has never allowed conventional vehicles to use higher ethanol blends, the research on their potential impacts on vehicles not designed, tested or warranted for their use is incomplete.”
Moreover, the switch to E15 is also being opposed by other industries dependent on gasoline engines. The International Snowmobile Manufacturers Association warns that E15 could do “irreparable harm” to snowmobile engines. Several U.S. states rely on snowmobiling for tourism, with more than 1.8 million snowmobiles currently registered in the United States.
The boating industry has taken a similar stance against E15, representing the nation’s 80 million boaters.
Automakers are seeking $17 million from Congress to conduct more research, but it remains to be seen if that request will be granted. President Obama has dedicated $786 billion to boost biofuel research – particularly in the field of cellulosic ethanol — but the vast majority of the U.S.’ ethanol still comes from corn. Not surprisingly, corn-producing states are supporting the legislation, arguing the measure will boost the U.S. economy and create thousands of new jobs. With both sides still miles apart on the ethanol debate, look for an interesting ramp-up to the EPA’s December 1 deadline.
The EPA has until December 1 to rule on a request to increase the amount of ethanol that can be mixed with gasoline from 10 percent to 15 percent, but strong opposition from the automobile industry could ultimately delay the decision making process. Although most pumps across the country now carry E10 – a 10 percent mix of ethanol – automakers warn that more research needs to be done to determine if older engines will be able to handle the 15 percent blend without damage.
Although corn-producing states are partly responsible for the E15 push, Congress’ recent ethanol requirements are largely behind the legislation. Congress has required that the United States must use 11 million gallons of ethanol by 2010 and 36 billion gallons by 2022. However, even if every gas station in America were to carry the current standard E10, the U.S. would still fall short – by more than half – of the 2022 requirement, according to The Detroit News.
Automakers aren’t completed against the switch to E15, but insist more research must be done to ensure the blend doesn’t damage or disable vehicles not built with the E15 standard in mind. In a letter to Congress, the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers – which includes the Big Three, Toyota and seven other automakers – said the idea “is premature, and since EPA has never allowed conventional vehicles to use higher ethanol blends, the research on their potential impacts on vehicles not designed, tested or warranted for their use is incomplete.”
Moreover, the switch to E15 is also being opposed by other industries dependent on gasoline engines. The International Snowmobile Manufacturers Association warns that E15 could do “irreparable harm” to snowmobile engines. Several U.S. states rely on snowmobiling for tourism, with more than 1.8 million snowmobiles currently registered in the United States.
The boating industry has taken a similar stance against E15, representing the nation’s 80 million boaters.
Automakers are seeking $17 million from Congress to conduct more research, but it remains to be seen if that request will be granted. President Obama has dedicated $786 billion to boost biofuel research – particularly in the field of cellulosic ethanol — but the vast majority of the U.S.’ ethanol still comes from corn. Not surprisingly, corn-producing states are supporting the legislation, arguing the measure will boost the U.S. economy and create thousands of new jobs. With both sides still miles apart on the ethanol debate, look for an interesting ramp-up to the EPA’s December 1 deadline.
Diesel Hello?
#125
Excess ethanol blamed in breakdown of police cars
City officials say an unusually high concentration of ethanol in the city's gasoline supply contributed to the breakdown of more than 70 police cars over the weekend, most of which had been repaired and returned to service Tuesday.
More than 200 police cars fueled up at a 24-hour, city-run gas pump by the Fallsway before cars started showing problems, and nearly one-third of the Police Department's patrol contingent was sidelined with engine trouble.
Police doubled up in cars before activating a reserve and shifting administrative vehicles into service.
Officials had expressed concern that the unleaded gasoline might have been mistakenly refilled with diesel, but results from a lab in Towson showed that ethanol was the apparent culprit.
Khalil Zaied, director of general services, said the city's supplier, IsoBunkers of Norfolk, Va., was conducting its own tests and that the city's legal team believes the city can recoup all expenses related to the incident.
Those expenses remained unclear Tuesday, but all of the repair work was done in-house, Zaied said.
"We had folks working literally 24 hours at all stations," Zaied said of the effort to get the police cruisers back on the streets. "They did a wonderful job."
Ethanol is mixed with gasoline at the pumps and is used to reduce carbon monoxide emissions, becoming more widespread in recent years as a replacement for methyl tertiary butyl ether, or MTBE, an additive that has led to concerns about groundwater contamination.
Most automobiles are not designed to handle blends with more than 10 percent ethanol, and higher levels of ethanol can cause engine damage.
More than 200 police cars fueled up at a 24-hour, city-run gas pump by the Fallsway before cars started showing problems, and nearly one-third of the Police Department's patrol contingent was sidelined with engine trouble.
Police doubled up in cars before activating a reserve and shifting administrative vehicles into service.
Officials had expressed concern that the unleaded gasoline might have been mistakenly refilled with diesel, but results from a lab in Towson showed that ethanol was the apparent culprit.
Khalil Zaied, director of general services, said the city's supplier, IsoBunkers of Norfolk, Va., was conducting its own tests and that the city's legal team believes the city can recoup all expenses related to the incident.
Those expenses remained unclear Tuesday, but all of the repair work was done in-house, Zaied said.
"We had folks working literally 24 hours at all stations," Zaied said of the effort to get the police cruisers back on the streets. "They did a wonderful job."
Ethanol is mixed with gasoline at the pumps and is used to reduce carbon monoxide emissions, becoming more widespread in recent years as a replacement for methyl tertiary butyl ether, or MTBE, an additive that has led to concerns about groundwater contamination.
Most automobiles are not designed to handle blends with more than 10 percent ethanol, and higher levels of ethanol can cause engine damage.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...,1002895.story
#127
#129
Brasil has done a amazing job over 3 decades with their country's ethanol program/projects to be foreign oil independent. Old article but the extraction difference between corn and sugar cane is huge.
"The ethanol extracted from corn yields only about 15 to 25 percent more fuel than the fossil fuels that were used to produce it. In Brazil, according to industry studies, the sugar-based ethanol yields about 830 percent more."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...081900842.html
#130
#131
^ the plants will be converted to produce bio-diesel once a good enough solution is developed. Bio-diesel is the long term solution - totaly renewable and delivers much better mileage than ethanol. All the delivery infrastructure is in place to support it unlike what's needed for electric cars or any other fuel.
#132
#133
Al Gore = Tool, Liar, Hypocrite
While delivering a speech on green energy policies in Europe today, former vice president Al Gore revealed several reasons for his former support for the federal subsidization of ethanol, many of which had nothing to do with the environment.
When speaking of the $7.7 billion in subsidies for ethanol in 2009, Gore admitted for the first time today that the subsidies may not be the right thing for the energy policy or the taxpayer.
“It is not a good policy to have these massive subsidies for (U.S.) first generation ethanol.” said Gore, according to Reuters. Gore added, “First generation ethanol I think was a mistake. The energy conversion ratios are at best very small. It’s hard once such a program is put in place to deal with the lobbies that keep it going.”
As the creator of the world famous documentary film, “An Inconvenient Truth,” Gore established himself as a pseudo-expert on climate change and the necessary changes required in order to avoid it. Following the film’s release, Gore has been addressing governments around the world for years on energy policies based on his expertise.
Yet, despite establishing himself as someone who was concerned with the environment first, and politics second, perhaps the most shocking revelation to come from Gore today was his admission of the reasons behind supporting ethanol, “One of the reasons I made that mistake is that I paid particular attention to the farmers in my home state of Tennessee, and I had a certain fondness for the farmers in the state of Iowa because I was about to run for president.”
Fast food facts
The process of creating ethanol fuel is fairly complex, and energy and material intensive. In the U.S., 41 percent of all corn being grown is used to create ethanol, a process that extracts sugar from the corn in an inefficient process due to the limitations of technology, according to Reuters.
Because of a combination of expected inflation and the major portion of corn that is then diverted from feeding either humans or livestock, many analysts are now predicting potentially devastating increases in the price of corn found at grocery stores in the near future. Gore said, “The size, the percentage of corn particularly, which is now being (used for) first generation ethanol definitely has an impact on food prices. The competition with food prices is real.”
Gore went on to explain that he expects the use of corn for fuel will continue to drive food prices up even into the second- and third-generations of production.
When speaking of the $7.7 billion in subsidies for ethanol in 2009, Gore admitted for the first time today that the subsidies may not be the right thing for the energy policy or the taxpayer.
“It is not a good policy to have these massive subsidies for (U.S.) first generation ethanol.” said Gore, according to Reuters. Gore added, “First generation ethanol I think was a mistake. The energy conversion ratios are at best very small. It’s hard once such a program is put in place to deal with the lobbies that keep it going.”
As the creator of the world famous documentary film, “An Inconvenient Truth,” Gore established himself as a pseudo-expert on climate change and the necessary changes required in order to avoid it. Following the film’s release, Gore has been addressing governments around the world for years on energy policies based on his expertise.
Yet, despite establishing himself as someone who was concerned with the environment first, and politics second, perhaps the most shocking revelation to come from Gore today was his admission of the reasons behind supporting ethanol, “One of the reasons I made that mistake is that I paid particular attention to the farmers in my home state of Tennessee, and I had a certain fondness for the farmers in the state of Iowa because I was about to run for president.”
Fast food facts
The process of creating ethanol fuel is fairly complex, and energy and material intensive. In the U.S., 41 percent of all corn being grown is used to create ethanol, a process that extracts sugar from the corn in an inefficient process due to the limitations of technology, according to Reuters.
Because of a combination of expected inflation and the major portion of corn that is then diverted from feeding either humans or livestock, many analysts are now predicting potentially devastating increases in the price of corn found at grocery stores in the near future. Gore said, “The size, the percentage of corn particularly, which is now being (used for) first generation ethanol definitely has an impact on food prices. The competition with food prices is real.”
Gore went on to explain that he expects the use of corn for fuel will continue to drive food prices up even into the second- and third-generations of production.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/al-gore-...gy-speech.html
"Sorry I screwed you all." - Al Gore
#135
our state congress is backing this shit heavily too. Many are farmers or friends with many of the big farmers. They are basically giving these large subsidies to them to make this crap. When will they learn it doesnt help a thing out!
#136
#137
Nova had a good documentary on biofuels few years back and many of the researchers thought corn was the wrong fuel stock then. Sugarcane requires too hot/humid a climate the US doesn't have, the only decent solutions was switchgrass and getting the cellulose process to work effciency. Too many politicians looked at Brasil and what they did in 2 decades with sugarcane and bought into the whole the US is big and corn grows here....
#139
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AL3CN20101122
#141
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/...ve-suppor.html
Washington Post
I'd imagine all mainstream media have it somewhere on their political webpages
#142
Mainstream media is on it, in fact it was the left wing liberal elite ivy league universities that brought this up in the first place.
The problem is the fly-over state congressmen who push ethanol on behalf of the farming lobby.
I still see these adds all over CNN where the all-American farmer takes off his hat in the middle of time square and makes a speech about how he can grow fuel and feed everyone. It's not the liberal media or environmentalists who paid for ads like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSA5d...eature=related
The problem is the fly-over state congressmen who push ethanol on behalf of the farming lobby.
I still see these adds all over CNN where the all-American farmer takes off his hat in the middle of time square and makes a speech about how he can grow fuel and feed everyone. It's not the liberal media or environmentalists who paid for ads like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSA5d...eature=related
Last edited by Belzebutt; 11-23-2010 at 01:52 PM.
#143
House blocks EPA from moving forward with E15!!!
The Environmental Protection Agency approved a plan last month to increase the blend of corn-based ethanol in gasoline from 10 percent to 15 percent, but a House amendment has put the brakes on the movement.
The EPA approved a measure last month to allow gas stations to begin selling E15 – a blend of 85 percent gasoline and 15 percent ethanol – but the U.S. House of Representatives passed a measure on Tuesday that blocks the EPA from conducting gas station surveys. Gas station surveys are required before a gas station can begin selling E85.
Penned by Rep. John Sullivan, a Republican from Oklahoma, the amendment essentially prohibits the EPA from spending money on the required surveys. The surveys are intended to ensure gas stations are using proper labels on ethanol dispensers.
“The House overwhelmingly agreed to put consumers first and ensure adequate testing is conducted before higher levels of ethanol are introduced,” said Gloria Bergquist, a spokeswoman for the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers. The Alliance of Automobile Manufactures represents 12 automakers, including General Motors and Toyota.
The AAM has largely opposed the move to E15 as it believes more testing is required to ensure the blend is safe for older vehicles. The current standard at the pumps is E10.
The AAM’s victory could prove to be short lived, though. The Sullivan amendment only prohibits the EPA from spending on gas station surveys until September 30.
The EPA approved a measure last month to allow gas stations to begin selling E15 – a blend of 85 percent gasoline and 15 percent ethanol – but the U.S. House of Representatives passed a measure on Tuesday that blocks the EPA from conducting gas station surveys. Gas station surveys are required before a gas station can begin selling E85.
Penned by Rep. John Sullivan, a Republican from Oklahoma, the amendment essentially prohibits the EPA from spending money on the required surveys. The surveys are intended to ensure gas stations are using proper labels on ethanol dispensers.
“The House overwhelmingly agreed to put consumers first and ensure adequate testing is conducted before higher levels of ethanol are introduced,” said Gloria Bergquist, a spokeswoman for the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers. The Alliance of Automobile Manufactures represents 12 automakers, including General Motors and Toyota.
The AAM has largely opposed the move to E15 as it believes more testing is required to ensure the blend is safe for older vehicles. The current standard at the pumps is E10.
The AAM’s victory could prove to be short lived, though. The Sullivan amendment only prohibits the EPA from spending on gas station surveys until September 30.
#145
The AAM’s victory could prove to be short lived, though. The Sullivan amendment only prohibits the EPA from spending on gas station surveys until September 30.
#148
Ethanol Subsidies Besieged
Federal subsidies for corn ethanol have long been considered untouchable in Washington — not least because politicians want the votes of Iowans, who have traditionally held the first nominating caucuses in the contest for the presidency.
But this year, cutting the budget deficit holds more allure than courting corn farmers, making a turning point in ethanol politics.
In Washington, there is growing consensus that the ethanol industry has reached financial stability, making much government assistance unnecessary. A strong majority of the Senate recently voted to end most of the subsidies.....
But this year, cutting the budget deficit holds more allure than courting corn farmers, making a turning point in ethanol politics.
In Washington, there is growing consensus that the ethanol industry has reached financial stability, making much government assistance unnecessary. A strong majority of the Senate recently voted to end most of the subsidies.....
#150
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...sic-ethanol-/1
The federal requirement for consuming 36 billion gallons of ethanol and other so-called biofuels annually by 2022 probably won't be met, and it might not reach its goal of cutting greenhouse gases even it were met, according to a report requested by Congress and published Tuesday by the National Academy of Sciences.
Meeting the standard "would likely increase federal budget outlays as well as have mixed economic and environmental effects," according to a summary.
"We're not telling anybody, 'Don't do biofuels.' We're just saying it will cost more than you thought and won't go as quickly as you thought," says E10 and E15 ethanol-gasoline blends will make sure the ethanol portion of the government's bio-fuel madate will be met, but a panel of experts says it's almost impossible to meet the requirement for other types of biofuels, or to guarantee they won't worsen, not improve, greenhouse gas emissions.
The report notes that the way biofuels (mainly ethanol) are produced, and changes in how land is used to meet the Renewable Fuel Standard, will determine whether greenhouse gases (GHG) increase or decrease. GHG are vilified as a global warming cause.
Tyner is professor of agricultural economics at Purdue University and co-director of the Center for Research on Energy Systems and Policy. The other 14 committee members represent an array of interests: agriculture, biofuels development, chemistry, sustainable energy, natural resources. Most are connected with universities.
Here's a look at the experts' report.
The National Academy of Sciences is not connected with the government. Congress can consult the NAS for expertise on issues, and did so in the case of biofuels.
The requirement for 15 billion gallons of fuel mainly from corn ethanol certainly will be met, he says: "We're at 14 billion today," and plenty of ethanol plants are in operation.
But meeting the requirements for cellulosic biofuels is uncertain, the report says. That's key because cellulosic-derived fuels come from wood, grasses and other non-edible material. That would end the fierce arguments about the propriety of using land to grow crops for fuel instead of for food.
"Everybody's been saying that cellulosic is the one that takes us home. We're saying, 'Not by 2022, it won't,' " Tyner says.
Whereas the technology and costs of making ethanol fuel from corn are well-known, "cellulosic on the other hand is new technology. We don't know how it works. We don't know how much it will cost. There are no plants in operation. Here we are in 2011 at 0 gallons and we have to get to 16 billion gallons by 2022.
"That's double or triple" how fast ethanol fuel became commercially viable, he notes.
"Everybody in the industry wants to build the fourth or fifth plant. Nobody wants to build the first," he says.
Even if oil were $111 a barrel, one of the scenarios forecast by the Department of Energy, cellulosic fuel could be a losing proposition, he says. Biofeul made using wood scraps, corn stalks and other leftover waste could be profitable. But growing plants specifically for fuel, such as switchgrass, wouldn't be unless the government continues a current $1.01 per gallon subsidy, he says.
Meeting the standard "would likely increase federal budget outlays as well as have mixed economic and environmental effects," according to a summary.
"We're not telling anybody, 'Don't do biofuels.' We're just saying it will cost more than you thought and won't go as quickly as you thought," says E10 and E15 ethanol-gasoline blends will make sure the ethanol portion of the government's bio-fuel madate will be met, but a panel of experts says it's almost impossible to meet the requirement for other types of biofuels, or to guarantee they won't worsen, not improve, greenhouse gas emissions.
The report notes that the way biofuels (mainly ethanol) are produced, and changes in how land is used to meet the Renewable Fuel Standard, will determine whether greenhouse gases (GHG) increase or decrease. GHG are vilified as a global warming cause.
Tyner is professor of agricultural economics at Purdue University and co-director of the Center for Research on Energy Systems and Policy. The other 14 committee members represent an array of interests: agriculture, biofuels development, chemistry, sustainable energy, natural resources. Most are connected with universities.
Here's a look at the experts' report.
The National Academy of Sciences is not connected with the government. Congress can consult the NAS for expertise on issues, and did so in the case of biofuels.
The requirement for 15 billion gallons of fuel mainly from corn ethanol certainly will be met, he says: "We're at 14 billion today," and plenty of ethanol plants are in operation.
But meeting the requirements for cellulosic biofuels is uncertain, the report says. That's key because cellulosic-derived fuels come from wood, grasses and other non-edible material. That would end the fierce arguments about the propriety of using land to grow crops for fuel instead of for food.
"Everybody's been saying that cellulosic is the one that takes us home. We're saying, 'Not by 2022, it won't,' " Tyner says.
Whereas the technology and costs of making ethanol fuel from corn are well-known, "cellulosic on the other hand is new technology. We don't know how it works. We don't know how much it will cost. There are no plants in operation. Here we are in 2011 at 0 gallons and we have to get to 16 billion gallons by 2022.
"That's double or triple" how fast ethanol fuel became commercially viable, he notes.
"Everybody in the industry wants to build the fourth or fifth plant. Nobody wants to build the first," he says.
Even if oil were $111 a barrel, one of the scenarios forecast by the Department of Energy, cellulosic fuel could be a losing proposition, he says. Biofeul made using wood scraps, corn stalks and other leftover waste could be profitable. But growing plants specifically for fuel, such as switchgrass, wouldn't be unless the government continues a current $1.01 per gallon subsidy, he says.
#151
Ethanol subsidies end in 2012
By Mark KleisTuesday, Dec 27th, 2011 @ 3:03 pm
0digg
With Congress officially on break until the close of 2011, the list of programs which did not get renewed is growing, including big items like the controversial ethanol subsidy.
Since 1980 it is estimated that U.S. taxpayers have subsidized $45 billion worth of the corn/ethanol business, but as DailyTech points out, that subsidy which saw $6 billion spent last year will stop dead in its tracks when 2012 kicks off.
Support for ethanol has waned in recent years on many fronts, with some pointing to studies that indicated the fuel was simply not financially feasible without continued federal subsidies (and wouldn’t be for many years to come), as well as outcries from automakers like Ford and Toyota pointing to concerns that the fuel could wreak havoc on fuel delivery systems as blends continued to become more concentrated.
The latest blow to the U.S. ethanol industry wasn’t even the first this year, as six months ago Congress voted 73-27 to end a tariff on the importation of Brazilian sugar cane ethanol – forcing U.S. corn-based ethanol to actually compete in a free market.
What’s next?
It’s impossible to know what will happen next in such a volatile political and economic environment, but it appears there may be a push forming against the recently increased mandated blend of ethanol fuel known as E85 (85 percent gasoline, 15 percent ethanol). Federal mandates called for consuming 15 billion gallons by 2015 and 36 billion by 2022 – but a vote by the U.S. House of Representatives has currently put that plan on hold.
As for the corn industry, last year more corn was used for ethanol production than food or agriculture, something that many are curious to watch change – or not – not that federal subsidies for the biofuel are going away.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/multi-bi...e-of-2011.html
0digg
With Congress officially on break until the close of 2011, the list of programs which did not get renewed is growing, including big items like the controversial ethanol subsidy.
Since 1980 it is estimated that U.S. taxpayers have subsidized $45 billion worth of the corn/ethanol business, but as DailyTech points out, that subsidy which saw $6 billion spent last year will stop dead in its tracks when 2012 kicks off.
Support for ethanol has waned in recent years on many fronts, with some pointing to studies that indicated the fuel was simply not financially feasible without continued federal subsidies (and wouldn’t be for many years to come), as well as outcries from automakers like Ford and Toyota pointing to concerns that the fuel could wreak havoc on fuel delivery systems as blends continued to become more concentrated.
The latest blow to the U.S. ethanol industry wasn’t even the first this year, as six months ago Congress voted 73-27 to end a tariff on the importation of Brazilian sugar cane ethanol – forcing U.S. corn-based ethanol to actually compete in a free market.
What’s next?
It’s impossible to know what will happen next in such a volatile political and economic environment, but it appears there may be a push forming against the recently increased mandated blend of ethanol fuel known as E85 (85 percent gasoline, 15 percent ethanol). Federal mandates called for consuming 15 billion gallons by 2015 and 36 billion by 2022 – but a vote by the U.S. House of Representatives has currently put that plan on hold.
As for the corn industry, last year more corn was used for ethanol production than food or agriculture, something that many are curious to watch change – or not – not that federal subsidies for the biofuel are going away.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/multi-bi...e-of-2011.html
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#156
^ agree or E05! I want less ethanol in our gas! With current gas, I need to run fuel cleaner through my 760's gas tank every 3 tank-fulls to keep my fuel pump from spitting out fault codes from the gunk that builds up on it!
Ethanol was bad from the get-go, killing our ocean (dead spot contributions), it making less energy than the energy required to grow it! Maybe farmers will start growing more crops and drop the prices of food slightly, like these expensive tomatoes!
Ethanol was bad from the get-go, killing our ocean (dead spot contributions), it making less energy than the energy required to grow it! Maybe farmers will start growing more crops and drop the prices of food slightly, like these expensive tomatoes!
#160
Who knows. Oil just hit $101 a barrel and gas here is as cheap as it's been in a year. It seems like there's no correlation between the price of gas and the cost of the commodities needed to manufacture it anymore ...