juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Well seeing as this topic appears to have been moved from the TL section to Car Talk... I expect the tone of the replies to change since almost no one in here drives an Acura anymore

Oh and yeah... Consumer Reports =

chill_dog

I still check CR for appliances and lawn equipment, but it's certainly not my sole source of info...basically just one more input/review to consider. However, there are a lot of people out there that put total stock in CR and use it exclusively. Will a ratings change be enough to make a noticeable difference in sales? I doubt it, but it will still sway a lot of people.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

^ Agreed. I check it for home stuff as well. Haven't used it for cars in ages though...

Majofo

Car Talk, dang it, I have to be good now.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

:puppyface: I was hoping it wouldnt get moved.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

People still drive Acura cars?

ttribe

Since when?

Majofo

Well..

I consider this sacred Terry ground. I try to be good here.

charliemike

What's an Acura?

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Made for Mankind bro

Mr. Maker

iTrader: (4)

I love the 460s.

Mr Marco

Bias liberal media

AZuser

The real question is will Acura step up and do anything about this to their advantage or are they just wasting time on a dead on arrival car again?

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Wait. Wasn't SSFTSX a Honda fanboy? Did he change?

Mr Marco

DOA

Took 8 years to develope the Hybrid. Aaaaand it was the most basic on the market. Seriously, I am sad for HMCo.

Majofo

It's HoMoCo

4cruizn

CR also dogged on the RLX, saying the Impala was a better value. No thanks.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Not surprised on that.

oo7spy

Impala? You have to be shitting me.

Or were you saying you weren't surprised they gave a shit review?

AZuser

He's the founder and President of the North American chapter of Honda Fanboi's For Life

alexSU

iTrader: (3)

Yes! That's one Lexus I definitely wouldn't mind owning. Even the older 430s were really nice.

cjTL

iTrader: (2)

Despite the shit reviews CR pushes, they have some influence. Note the attention their review of the 2012 Civic got.

cjTL

iTrader: (2)

Removing the red text would be applicable for this section of the forum.

Majofo

2012 civic

oonowindoo

founder and President of the North American Bipolar Association

TSX69

Japanese Autos Lose Ground in CR

After results of Consumer Reports Annual Auto Reliability ratings were released on Monday, there appeared to be a crack in the dominance of Japanese brands over automotive reliability. 2 of America’s most popular cars, the V-6-equipped Honda Accord and the Nissan Altima, no longer have the consumer advocacy publication’s coveted “Recommended” rating, according to the report.

The 2014 Subaru Forester was the highest-scoring vehicle over all in predicted reliability. Worst-rated was the Ford C-Max Energi plug-in hybrid. The Dodge Dart 2-liter was the top domestic model. After performing poorly in the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety’s new, more stringent small overlap front crash test, the Audi A4, the Toyota Camry, the Toyota RAV4 and the Toyota Prius V were also absent from the list.

The results of Consumer Reports’ annual survey, which tries to highlight the most reliable 2014 vehicles by evaluating past years’ models, were released in Detroit during a news conference before members of the Automotive Press Association. The report is based on data from 1.1 million 2004-13 model-year vehicles leased or owned by Consumer Reports subscribers. Subscribers were asked whether, in the last year, they had a serious problem with their vehicle that required a visit to the dealer.

To determine predicted reliability, the publication’s staff averages the overall reliability scores for the most recent 3 model years, assuming that a given model has not changed during that period and was not redesigned for 2013. If it were, Consumer Reports may use 1 or 2 years of data to calculate a rating.

At first glance, the slipping reliability stances of Japanese vehicles do not seem significant. After all, 7 of the top 10 spots in the brand rankings are still held by Japanese brands, with Lexus in 1st place, followed by Toyota, Acura, Mazda, Infiniti, Honda and Subaru. That is only 1 less than last year.

But the slip in stature emerges upon closer inspection of the data. Along with the rankings of the Accord V-6 and Altima, the twin models shared by Scion and Subaru, the Scion FR-S and Subaru BRZ, scored below average in predicted reliability and were responsible for Scion falling from 1st place last year to 11th this year, and for Subaru falling from 5th to 10th.

“On the whole, Japanese brands are still more reliable than Europeans or Americans,” said Jake Fisher, director of automotive testing for Consumer Reports, in a telephone interview. “But we are talking about an Accord, Altima, Pathfinder, FR-S and BRZ, all below average. That’s something that’s kind of new.”

Also, Nissan fell 9 places from last year to its current 22nd out of 28 brands.

“We aren’t used to seeing Japanese nameplates being that low on the list,” he said, adding that most European manufacturers had improved.

The prime example is Audi, which rose 4 places from last year to take 4th place. It was the top European manufacturer in the survey. The A6 sedan, the Q7 sport utility and the Allroad wagon all had “much better than average” reliability. Mr. Fisher said that it was rare to see a non-Japanese automaker among the top 5.

Volvo jumped 13 places this year to 7th. GMC, a brand with only trucks, moved up 3 places to finish 9th, making it the only domestic brand in the top 10.

These are some of the other conclusions from the survey:

In-car electronics, including audio, navigation, communication and connected systems, continue to be a problem. The category that includes in-car electronics generated “significantly” more complaints than any of the 17 categories of problem areas in the survey, Mr. Fisher said. Complaints include issues with screen freezes, touch-control lag, voice recognition malfunctions and compatibility problems with cellphones and MP3 devices.

Almost 2-thirds of the 34 Ford and Lincoln models in the survey scored much worse than “Average,” which is the lowest rating. In-car electronics is one reason those models occupy the bottom of the list (26th for Ford and 27th for Lincoln).The brands have fallen the last few years because of problems with the MyFord and MyLincoln Touch infotainment systems.

Ford continued to have problems with its 6-speed dual-clutch PowerShift transmissions as well, Mr. Fisher said.

In this year’s survey, several of Ford’s EcoBoost turbocharged V-6 models have poor predicted reliability ratings as well.

“In every example where there is a non-EcoBoost engine, the models with the EcoBoost engines tend to have worse reliability than the ones that don’t have those engines,” Mr. Fisher said, adding that it was too early to tell whether those issues are because of the EcoBoost engine or other factors. “That is true throughout their lineup.”

EcoBoost engines, which come in a variety of sizes, are crucial to Ford, which planned to have more than 90 percent of its North American lineup available with the fuel-efficient turbocharged engines by this year.

The Tesla Model S electric car did well enough in the survey to earn a Recommended rating for the 1st time based on data from more than 600 2012-13 models. Although owners of 2012 models reported very few problems, 2013 owners reported “quite a few” more, according to the Consumer Reports survey. Those problems included wind noise, squeaks and rattles, and problems with body hardware, like sunroofs, doors and locks.

General Motors fared better than other domestic brands over all.

Chrysler continued to perform poorly, with the exception of the Chrysler 300C, which scored above average in this year’s survey.

Hybrids and electric cars continued to do well, with the exception of the Ford Fusion Hybrid, the Ford C-Max Energi plug-in hybrid and the Ford C-Max Hybrid.

BMW and Mercedes-Benz models were in the middle of the field, with most models receiving scores of average or better.

TSX69

ds03

New Accord V6 received a below-average score for reliability this year? I don't receive CR but curious if that is drivetrain related & something that may carry over to the new TLX.

Acura-OC

They also dropped recommendations for:

A relatively new crash test, conducted by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, shows that some vehicles are much better than others at protecting their occupants in certain types of frontal collisions. And as a result of poor results in this small-overlap frontal crash test, we are dropping our recommendations for four popular models: the Audi A4 and Toyota Camry, Prius V, and RAV4.

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

Probably because it is too new to evaluate.

Acura-OC

The well-rounded Accord's 2.4-liter four-cylinder works well with its unobtrusive CVT and got an impressive 30 mpg overall. The 3.5-liter V6 is lively and refined, and with the six-speed automatic gets a very good 26 mpg overall. Handling is quite agile and secure, and the ride is compliant but not as good as some competitors'. The cabin is roomy, with supportive seats. Top-trim models have a fussy radio. A plug-in hybrid, with an EV range of 10 to 15 miles, is available in selected states, while a regular hybrid is also available. Reliability of the redesigned four-cylinder sedan is average, but the V6 sedan and coupe versions are below average.

Acura-OC

They totally trashed RLX

erdoc48

Actually, a lot of previously recommended cars are being dropped from the category because of buggy or poorly functional infotainment systems. Honda/ Acura cars like the Accord and RLX have dual screen systems that are not intuitive (as old as our Navi systems are, they work and work well) as they should be. I read some of the recommendations on the newer cars and now feel better about keeping what I have.

From CR (I'm a subscriber to the online site):

Controls and gauges: The Accord's gauges are a model of clarity. All have a large center dashboard screen, which clearly displays audio information, the rear-camera display, and navigation maps.

Most controls are easy to use. Basic Accords (LX, Sport, EX) have a simple-to-use radio with a tuning knob and large buttons and knobs. Opting for the EX-L adds in a more complicated radio that uses a small touch screen for certain functions. Navigating the screen can be a bit convoluted. The touch screen and center dashboard screen seem to get out of sync; for instance, the tuning knob only works if the audio screen is showing. The touch screen needs a firm tap to register. There's also a delay in changing from one radio station to the next as the screen graphics struggle to catch up with the twist of the knob or tap of the button.

Top-trim versions (Touring and EX-L with navigation) have an even more complicated radio with a touch screen and no tuning knob. Instead a low-mounted multifunction knob does double duty, controlling both navigation and audio functions.

As for some other makes, like Fords (I actually like the Fusion), the My Ford Touch system is apparently very difficult to work with, and with some of the newer systems, they are not as reliable and distract you while driving.


As for the RLX (also from CR):

The RLX has a lot of display screens, including a large one in the center dashboard, a smaller touch screen directly beneath it, and a third between the instruments. Their graphics are generally good, and easy to read with large fonts. A big dashboard control makes it easy to adjust brightness or turn the screens off altogether, which can be helpful at night.

Unfortunately, the display logic could use some work. Despite all the real estate devoted to screens, it's impossible to display fuel economy, distance to empty, and audio info like song title all at once. Changing the center screen takes too long, with unnecessary transitional graphics. And navigating the instrument cluster screen can be challenging. Even something basic like resetting the fuel economy computer can be hard to figure out.

Amid all of these high-tech displays is a large LCD clock that is thankfully simple, but looks like something out a 1982 Accord.

Controls: At first glance, controls seem more straightforward than the integrated systems found on other luxury cars, like BMW's iDrive, Audi's MMI, Cadillac Cue, and MyLincolnTouch. But the Acura's controls, which combine normal buttons with a center controller knob and touch screen, have a few quirks of their own.

On the plus side, the radio and climate touch screen has clear graphics and large on-screen buttons. It also provides tactile feedback by "buzzing" the screen when you tap it. Unlike Cadillac's Cue system, the Acura's system delivers the touch feedback when you would expect it.

Climate functions are controlled by a combination of buttons and the center touch screen. Manual adjustments require pulling up each function's individual screen -- fan, airflow, etc -- and making adjustments. It can be somewhat laborious. Most drivers will find it easier to just keep it on Auto.

The audio controls are a mess, and earned pages of criticism in the test car's logbook. Finding any particular function can be a challenge, and it doesn't help that some selections can be displayed on both the upper screen and lower screens. Each screen should have dedicated functions to reduce confusion.

Even some basic controls are poorly designed. The pop-up volume knob is too small, and the power button next to it is even smaller and hard to find at a glance. Worse is the lack of a tuning knob. The large multi-controller knob can be made to serve as one, but it's not easy to find the menu to give it marching orders. Setting presets is far too complicated.

Most adjustments can be made using voice controls and the touch screen, minimizing the need for the controller knob. But we think Acura should have spent more time making this system easier and less distracting to use.

Electronic connectivity: Pairing a phone is normally easy, with prompts to take you through the process. But if the maximum number of devices is already paired, accessing the menu to delete unwanted devices is complicated. Pairing cannot be done using voice commands, and requires going into the settings menu rather than under phone where you might expect to find it.

You can listen to music stored on a phone through Bluetooth or by connecting through a USB port in the center console. Pandora and Aha Internet radio compatibility is built in, but listening requires using your phone data plan. A single power outlet is located under the radio, forward of the shifter. Another is in the center storage compartment, along with a USB port and an aux-in jack. There are no additional ports for rear passengers.

Voice commands let you select a station or MP3 song by voice, but specific language and several steps are required for most functions. That makes the system less friendly than others that allow natural speech patterns.

When using the navigation system, entering a destination is slow and cumbersome, requiring users to enter an address piece by piece, rather than in a single stream as is possible with more modern systems.

Using AcuraLink Apps requires a paid subscription, with three levels of service available. Standard service includes satellite radio and traffic reporting for three years; the next level adds the AcuraLink Connect app and activates the cars cellular transceiver, allowing data to be received and sent by your car; and Premium is a concierge service that provides a live operator to make reservations at restaurants, book travel, or look up destinations and send them to your car's navigation system. A three-month trial subscription to Connect and Premium service levels is included for three months. After that, a Connect subscription costs $249 a year and Premium is an additional $99.


I have to be honest: I really like what I've done with my TL. I have Bluetooth audio, HFL, and iPod capability, so getting a new car really doesn't net me anything that I don't already have (OK, maybe a panoramic roof) and more importantly, my TL has been payment free for years. Reading the CR reports support my opinion that I have a great car that I should keep. When I'm ready to get a new car I'm looking to get a Tesla Model E (the upcoming midsize car) if it's at a decent price and looks good. I'm fairly certain my next car will be an electric. As far as the Accord goes, I'm sure engine and tranny wise, it's a great car.


When in doubt, KISS (keep it simple, stupid).

TSX69

The 10 Least Reliable Cars

Just because a model is reliable, doesn't mean it is recommended by Consumer Reports. 5 out of the top 10 most reliable vehicles don't perform well enough in our tests for us to recommend them. The opposite happens as well; some vehicles that score well in our testing are not recommended because they have below average predicted reliability.

3 out of the 10 least reliable vehicles have high-enough test scores to be recommended, but their poor reliability prevents them from reaching that recommended status. So, it's important to look at performance in our tests and reliability, because a high scoring car isn't always a smart purchase choice if it isn't reliable.

Our 2013 Annual Auto Survey reveals the best and worst vehicles in new car reliability based on our subscribers' experiences with 1.1 million vehicles over the last 10 years (2004-2013). Our data provide the basis for our forecasting how the 2014 models are likely to hold up, and reveals the most dependable used cars as well.

The vehicles listed below are the 10 least reliable new cars in our reliability survey. Predicted reliability is typically based on the newest 3 model years if a model hasn't been redesigned in that period, Models with an asterisk (*) are based on data of 1 model year only. Click on the vehicles below to visit the model overview pages to see how they performed in our tests and also view a more-detailed look at reliability broken down by 17 potential trouble spots. (Model overview pages are available to online subscribers.)

Least reliable vehicles, listed in order of Ratings score starting with the worst score.

1. Ford C-MAX Energi (Plug-in Hybrid)*
2. Ford Escape (1.6L Ecoboost)*
3. Mini Cooper Countryman
4. Ford C-Max Hybrid
5. Nissan Pathfinder*
6. Volkswagen Beetle
7. Cadillac XTS*
8. Ford Explorer (V6, 4WD)
9. Hyundai Genesis Coupe*
10. Ford Taurus (turbo)*

For more details on our 2013 Annual Auto Survey, including the full list of most and least reliable new cars by vehicle type, see our complete car reliability report. Also, check out our guide to car reliability for more details on new and used car reliability and owner satisfaction.

LaCostaRacer

The CU ratings blend in the actual road test performance with the results of an annual reliability survey. This means that a car can test well but still not be recommended from the reliability perspective.

I did notice that Acura is rated at #3 for reliability across all brands in CU with the TL as most reliable and the ILX as least within the brand itself.

VR1

Consumer Reports car section sucks.. Only people I know who care about it are non car enthusiast people.

ds03

I guess if your definition of a car 'enthusiast' includes not caring about purchasing something that may give you headaches down the road or leave you stranded somewhere then you're probably correct.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Mostly likely. As has been mentioned CR's data is to be taken with a grain of salt. I know I haven't used them in over a decade for an automotive purchase.

Anyway, we already have a thread which discusses some CR stuff. Merging...

Sarlacc

someone left the child gate open again

Majofo

that doesn't explain the nimrods..