Chevrolet of tomorrow: Back to the '50s

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Old 12-17-2005 | 01:30 PM
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Chevrolet of tomorrow: Back to the '50s

Chevrolet of tomorrow: Back to the '50s

December 13, 2005; Posted: 12:11 p.m. EST (1711 GMT) By Peter Valdes-Dapena, CNNMoney.com staff writer NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - There was a time when a big Chevrolet was considered cool. With fins, chrome and lots of style and flash, 1950s models like the Bel Air were made to be noticed.

"Chevrolet used to be the exciting affordable car," said Jim Hall with the automotive marketing consultancy AutoPacific.

Chevrolet is still affordable. But exciting? Not quite.

Today's Chevrolets, even executives at General Motors will admit, do not inspire pounding hearts and raw desire. The brand's most successful products, its SUVs and trucks, dazzle only through sheer size. Even otherwise good cars, like the Impala sedan, have the visual excitement of a decent sport coat.

Now GM is looking back to the 1950s for inspiration as it tries to recover from declining market share and a seemingly unbreakable reliance on cash incentives to sell cars.

Not that future Chevrolets will necessarily sprout tail fins or dozens of pounds of glittering chrome, but they won't look like every other car on the road.

"For a while there I think there was a feeling that people who bought Chevrolets cared about a lot of things but they didn't care a lot about design," said Tom Wilkinson, communications director for GM design.

Eye-catching design has certainly worked for the Chrysler Group of DaimlerChrysler. Cars like the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Magnum sell well without heavy incentives. Both cars are proportioned to look as if they could have driven straight out of a comic book.

But, those cars are not intended for mass appeal. They are designed for strong appeal among a relative few. The same can be said for GM's Hummer and Cadillac divisions, which have also used a more radical design approach to appeal to those who really want to stand out in a crowd.

But what about a car like the Chevrolet Impala, one of GM's most popular cars? Hundreds of thousands of Impalas are sold every year to consumers and fleet buyers like police departments. Are those buyers likely to want flash and style in their big family car?

"Something that's well designed doesn't have to be radically designed," said Wilkinson.

The change

Expect the change to start in the next couple of years.

While no images of the vehicles have been publicly released yet, a look ahead at upcoming Saturns and a look back at the classic Chevys of the 1950s gives an idea of the sort of thing Wilkinson is talking about. And, some experts say, it's just what Chevrolet needs in an era when building better cars just isn't enough.

Saturn, GM's youngest division, has always been known for a kind and gentle dealership experience with no-haggle pricing. It has never been known for particularly desirable or interesting automobiles.

Saturn's new line-up of cars, beginning with the two-seat roadster called the Sky, followed by the Aura sedan. The Vue SUV will also get a new, futuristic look and Saturn will be introducing a larger crossover SUV as well. Saturns are going to start looking very interesting. Much of the vehicles' design will be shared with GM's European Opel brand. The designs will be edgier and more artful than American buyers are used to seeing from GM.

Chevrolet will get things rolling with its own version of the Aura sedan, said Hall, who was treated to a peak at the new Chevrolet sedan. He called the new Chevrolet design even more striking than the Saturn.

The Saturn Aura shares its engineering underpinnings with the current Chevrolet Malibu. The next generation Malibu will be much more aggressive-looking, said GM's Wilkinson, who allowed that the current Malibu is "kind of blah."

Still, improved appearances won't be enough to succeed. Cars like the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Magnum, rear-wheel-drive cars with extremely powerful optional engines, are also fundamentally different from functionally similar vehicles in their price ranges. Also, from the standpoint of driving dynamics, they perform better than most cars they compete against.

Meanwhile, Toyota and other Japanese competitors are seen as having better quality and long-term durability than the Detroit-based carmakers. Although GM can legitimately claim to have narrowed the gap in quality against those competitors, that's been a tough sell with consumers.

"There's a lot of sour past experiences that the domestics are going to have to get through," said James Bell, publisher of the automotive consumer guide IntelliChoice.

Better design could be enough to get buyers to consider a GM vehicle when, in the past, they would have gone with a Toyota or Honda as, simply, a safer bet.

"It's a question of who's got the right car at the right time," said Bell.

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Old 12-17-2005 | 03:21 PM
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Stupid GM!!! Going back to the 50s will never solve your problems. Just make good cars. Cars that... You know what, just copy Hyundai and do everything that they do.
It saddens me to say that.
Old 12-17-2005 | 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by AsianRage
Stupid GM!!!. Just make good cars.:

Yeah...like a 400 HP Vette that gets 30 MPG or a 500 HP Z06 for $68000.00.
Old 12-17-2005 | 04:29 PM
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Mimicking Hyundai or Toyota won't get GM anywhere.

The thing about 'great whizbang new better designs' is
Old 12-17-2005 | 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CHIEFZUSAF
Yeah...like a 400 HP Vette that gets 30 MPG or a 500 HP Z06 for $68000.00.
Oh yeah, and the general public can each afford a 68 thousand dollar car?
Old 12-17-2005 | 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by M TYPE X
Mimicking Hyundai or Toyota won't get GM anywhere.
Huyndai's been doing the GM thing better. Low buck cars with lots more value and "style"
Old 12-17-2005 | 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by AsianRage
Oh yeah, and the general public can each afford a 68 thousand dollar car?
You can pick up an 06 Vette at www.kerbeck.com for $39,999...But you didn't mention anything about price in your original post did you?

I've owned several GMs and still have a couple including an 04 Z06 and a 03 Silverado SS AWD...they are awesome vehicles.
Old 12-17-2005 | 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by AsianRage
Oh yeah, and the general public can each afford a 68 thousand dollar car?
And quit being so negative...aren't you the guy who had his rant thread closed because you were complaining about negative comments.

If you don't have anything positive to say then shut yo trap.

Z
Old 12-17-2005 | 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by AsianRage
Stupid GM!!! Going back to the 50s will never solve your problems. Just make good cars. Cars that... You know what, just copy Hyundai and do everything that they do.
It saddens me to say that.
Here ya go Mr. Graphics Designer...good thing you don't run the company

General Motors Corp. (NYSE: GM), the world's largest automaker, has been the global industry sales leader since 1931. Founded in 1908, GM today employs about 325,000 people around the world. It has manufacturing operations in 32 countries and its vehicles are sold in 200 countries. In 2004, GM sold nearly 9 million cars and trucks globally, up 4 percent and the second-highest total in the company's history. GM's global headquarters are at the GM Renaissance Center in Detroit.

Developing partnerships around the world.

GM is the majority shareholder in GM Daewoo Auto & Technology Co. of South Korea, and has product, powertrain and purchasing collaborations with Suzuki Motor Corp. and Isuzu Motors Ltd. of Japan. GM also has advanced technology collaborations with DaimlerChrysler AG and BMW AG of Germany and Toyota Motor Corp. of Japan, and vehicle manufacturing ventures with several automakers around the world, including Toyota, Suzuki, Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp. of China, AVTOVAZ of Russia and Renault SA of France.

Building brands. Leading the way.

GM's automotive brands are Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Holden, HUMMER, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn and Vauxhall
Old 12-17-2005 | 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AsianRage
Stupid GM!!! Just make good cars.
It saddens me to say that.
Some JD Power survey results for you too.

http://www.jdpower.com/special/power...m05/GM_SPR.pdf

Merry Christmas.

Z
Old 12-17-2005 | 07:03 PM
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GM does great engines too.

Supercharged 2L in Chevy Cobalt SS puts GM in tuner hunt.
General Motors Corp. rings in with two winners of 10 Best Engines awards. GM makes serious inroads into the affordable performance market with its thrilling 2L supercharged DOHC I-4 used in the Cobalt SS performance coupe.

Thanks to supercharging and intelligent design, GM engineers squeeze more than 100 hp per liter from their 4-cyl. dynamo, while achieving a 23/29 city/highway fuel economy (10/8 L/100 km) rating from the Environmental Protection Agency.

Also enjoying a first win is GM's 2.8L turbocharged DOHC V-6, currently used exclusively by GM's Saab brand for its 9-3 sport sedan and wagon.

The 2.8L DOHC V-6 is a variant of GM's sophisticated “global” V-6 engine architecture, tuned in the Saab application for an outstanding mix of performance and refinement, while underscoring Saab's heritage for turbocharged engines.

“A sophisticated mid-displacement V-6 and turbocharging are a remarkably effective combination,” says Visnic. “GM and Saab have created an impressive performance-car engine with high specific output and the thrill of turbocharging.”
Old 12-17-2005 | 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by CHIEFZUSAF
And quit being so negative...aren't you the guy who had his rant thread closed because you were complaining about negative comments.

If you don't have anything positive to say then shut yo trap.

Z
You actually remember that? Wow, care to remember why I ranted?
Old 12-17-2005 | 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by CHIEFZUSAF
Some JD Power survey results for you too.

http://www.jdpower.com/special/power...m05/GM_SPR.pdf

Merry Christmas.

Z
We know GM make good trucks. I love Escalade, but the subpar interior design and quality will never get me inside one.

Beside I was commenting about cars as a complete package and general long lasting dependability, not initial quality. Regardless, even if you have great powertrain, if the exterior package doesn't work then it doesn't matter.
Old 12-17-2005 | 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by CHIEFZUSAF
GM does great engines too.

Supercharged 2L in Chevy Cobalt SS puts GM in tuner hunt.
General Motors Corp. rings in with two winners of 10 Best Engines awards. GM makes serious inroads into the affordable performance market with its thrilling 2L supercharged DOHC I-4 used in the Cobalt SS performance coupe.

Thanks to supercharging and intelligent design, GM engineers squeeze more than 100 hp per liter from their 4-cyl. dynamo, while achieving a 23/29 city/highway fuel economy (10/8 L/100 km) rating from the Environmental Protection Agency.

Also enjoying a first win is GM's 2.8L turbocharged DOHC V-6, currently used exclusively by GM's Saab brand for its 9-3 sport sedan and wagon.

The 2.8L DOHC V-6 is a variant of GM's sophisticated “global” V-6 engine architecture, tuned in the Saab application for an outstanding mix of performance and refinement, while underscoring Saab's heritage for turbocharged engines.

“A sophisticated mid-displacement V-6 and turbocharging are a remarkably effective combination,” says Visnic. “GM and Saab have created an impressive performance-car engine with high specific output and the thrill of turbocharging.”
Turbo Engine's great, where's the rest? Love the Saab 93 but it wasn't a true GM car.
SS package for the Cobalt coupe is nice, but the exterior and interior doesn't work for me. Their design schemes are insufficient. I'm sure that GM will improve, but going back to the 50s doesn't work does it nor the 40s or the 70s.
Old 12-17-2005 | 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by CHIEFZUSAF
Here ya go Mr. Graphics Designer...good thing you don't run the company

General Motors Corp. (NYSE: GM), the world's largest automaker, has been the global industry sales leader since 1931. Founded in 1908, GM today employs about 325,000 people around the world. It has manufacturing operations in 32 countries and its vehicles are sold in 200 countries. In 2004, GM sold nearly 9 million cars and trucks globally, up 4 percent and the second-highest total in the company's history. GM's global headquarters are at the GM Renaissance Center in Detroit.

Developing partnerships around the world.

GM is the majority shareholder in GM Daewoo Auto & Technology Co. of South Korea, and has product, powertrain and purchasing collaborations with Suzuki Motor Corp. and Isuzu Motors Ltd. of Japan. GM also has advanced technology collaborations with DaimlerChrysler AG and BMW AG of Germany and Toyota Motor Corp. of Japan, and vehicle manufacturing ventures with several automakers around the world, including Toyota, Suzuki, Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp. of China, AVTOVAZ of Russia and Renault SA of France.

Building brands. Leading the way.

GM's automotive brands are Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Holden, HUMMER, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn and Vauxhall
Thank you for that fascinating Corporate marketing copy. I'll use it one day.
Old 12-17-2005 | 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by CHIEFZUSAF
You can pick up an 06 Vette at www.kerbeck.com for $39,999...But you didn't mention anything about price in your original post did you?

I've owned several GMs and still have a couple including an 04 Z06 and a 03 Silverado SS AWD...they are awesome vehicles.
Sooo?

I owned a 1989 Chevrolet Beretta GTU before my TL and it was an awesome car. Fun to drive, with great torque down low and a spacious interior (with soft touch dash too) in a small package. It was easy to take care of and rode great. It had a refreshingly unique exterior that still looks good, especially in GTZ and Z26 form with a great, dependable powertrain. The new GM cars doesn't offer the complete package that would make me want to buy it.

What i was trying to say is that GM should try to focus on making cars that regular people would want to buy. 40-70K Corvettes with great value are the exception, not the rule. Good design inside and out with a quality powertrain and long lasting dependability would encourage more people to shop GM. Going back to the 50s for inspiration won't cut it. Having more HHRs in the showroom won't get GM into the black.
Old 12-17-2005 | 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CHIEFZUSAF
Yeah...like a 400 HP Vette that gets 30 MPG or a 500 HP Z06 for $68000.00.
Amen. The Malibu and Impala are "good cars" also. So is the G6 (though I don't like the interior design). And those are cars for the masses. This was a fair article. GM's problem has be come more image and appeal, not product. GM has good product.
Old 12-17-2005 | 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AsianRage
Huyndai's been doing the GM thing better. Low buck cars with lots more value and "style"
No they haven't. That's an ingonorant statement. Hyundai's on a roll, and they're continuing it. But they have a ways to go before they're on par with GM.
Old 12-17-2005 | 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by M TYPE X
Mimicking Hyundai or Toyota won't get GM anywhere.

The thing about 'great whizbang new better designs' is
I agree with the first statement, but disagree with the second. The article's on point. Great new whizbang designs is exactly what GM needs. DCX's cars are way more appealing, and they've made a big splash. The Impala and Grand Prix both have available 5.3L V8s @300HP with DOD. The specs are there; it's largely design and consumer preception that's killing GM. It'll be an uphill battle for them to change that. The Sky, Aura, and upcoming Vue (the very nice Opel Antera) are a great start.
Old 12-17-2005 | 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by AsianRage
Turbo Engine's great, where's the rest?
The 2.4L 170HP Ecotec I4; the 3.9L 240HP pushrod V6; 3.6L DOHC HFV6 255HP; 4.6L Northstar V8 320HP. I'm not even gonna get into the LS1... All of those engines are NA, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with any of them. It's the styling that's hurting GM. NOT engineering.
Old 12-17-2005 | 09:12 PM
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it's amazing that gm and ford have to retro to "try" to sell cars. i don't see the imports havving to depend on classic designs, minus the beetle, to sell cars.

it sounds like they are doing whatever these washed up engineers dream up at the bar.

would i still buy a used import over a new domestic? you bet i would
Old 12-17-2005 | 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by AsianRage
We know GM make good trucks. I love Escalade, but the subpar interior design and quality will never get me inside one.
I submit to you the new Escalade. Don't even rely on the pics... check it out in person. The thing is gonna set the standard. It's really easy to keep commenting on quality because of GM's crappy recent past in that department. But GM makes some great product now. The Escalade is as good as it gets, and it's a great example of what GM can do, and SHOULD do for all of it's divisions.
Old 12-17-2005 | 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by dallison
it's amazing that gm and ford have to retro to "try" to sell cars. i don't see the imports havving to depend on classic designs, minus the beetle, to sell cars.

it sounds like they are doing whatever these washed up engineers dream up at the bar.

would i still buy a used import over a new domestic? you bet i would
Most of the imports desgins are deriviative and bland too. I think standouts include the TL (beautiful Italian flair), M (classic Japanese geometrics,agressive stance) and even the new GS (atleast they're getting they're own design language), CLS (duh). Atleast Volvo has developed a true design just for them. The looks of a car are largely subjective, so we all have our own opinions. But I don't see the imports coming with particularly dazzling designs. Alfa's got hot shit, but they aren't here. DCX is coming strong, and Caddy has atleast polarizing designs (hate it or love it).
Old 12-17-2005 | 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CHIEFZUSAF
Yeah...like a 400 HP Vette that gets 30 MPG or a 500 HP Z06 for $68000.00.
A 200 hp Civic Si only gets 22/31 mpg.
Old 12-18-2005 | 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by titan
I agree with the first statement, but disagree with the second. The article's on point. Great new whizbang designs is exactly what GM needs. DCX's cars are way more appealing, and they've made a big splash. The Impala and Grand Prix both have available 5.3L V8s @300HP with DOD. The specs are there; it's largely design and consumer preception that's killing GM. It'll be an uphill battle for them to change that. The Sky, Aura, and upcoming Vue (the very nice Opel Antera) are a great start.
I'm skeptical that Chevrolet and Pontiac will get the designs that they desperately need.

I think the Buick Lucerne is a winner, both in design and advertising. But is the price too high for the feature content?
Old 12-18-2005 | 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by SpeedyV6
A 200 hp Civic Si only gets 22/31 mpg.
People need to be realistic.

I get roughly 25 mpg if I drive city streets all week in my Integra LS,
and 30 mpg on a mostly-highway tank of fuel.

It must be painful for people with large SUVs.
Then again, they don't have small Honda fuel tanks.
Old 12-18-2005 | 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by dallison
it's amazing that gm and ford have to retro to "try" to sell cars. i don't see the imports havving to depend on classic designs, minus the beetle, to sell cars.

it sounds like they are doing whatever these washed up engineers dream up at the bar.
The imports don't have any classic designs.
Old 12-18-2005 | 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
The imports don't have any classic designs.
Nissan, Jaguar, Volkswagen, et al don't?
Old 12-18-2005 | 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by M TYPE X
Nissan, Jaguar, Volkswagen, et al don't?
Sorry, after I posted that, I thought of the S2K and 350Z. Jaguar uses a evolutionary design which uses design cues from previous models. I wouldn't call that a true retro design. The Bug is another good example. Not very many, but they do have a few.
Old 12-18-2005 | 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by M TYPE X
I'm skeptical that Chevrolet and Pontiac will get the designs that they desperately need.

I think the Buick Lucerne is a winner, both in design and advertising. But is the price too high for the feature content?
The Lucerne's pricing is almost to low to be taken seriously, IMO. It's very inexpensive. It starts at $28K and tops out around $36K. It can come loaded with just about everything, so for a car of that size I think it's worth the price. I think the CXL V8 starts at $31k, which is a pretty good value. The Lucerene's styling and advertising are really good; but the can defitinetly take a higher level with the next gen.
Old 12-18-2005 | 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by titan
The Lucerne's pricing is almost to low to be taken seriously, IMO. It's very inexpensive. It starts at $28K and tops out around $36K. It can come loaded with just about everything, so for a car of that size I think it's worth the price. I think the CXL V8 starts at $31k, which is a pretty good value. The Lucerene's styling and advertising are really good; but the can defitinetly take a higher level with the next gen.
Whoa, you're right. The V6 doesn't have as much power, but if you price out a V8 CXL or CXS, there are a lot of power and features for the money. Think about it compared to the Acura RL or Infiniti M35/45.
Old 12-18-2005 | 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
Sorry, after I posted that, I thought of the S2K and 350Z. Jaguar uses a evolutionary design which uses design cues from previous models. I wouldn't call that a true retro design. The Bug is another good example. Not very many, but they do have a few.
I took "classic" to mean ORIGINAL classics. The Z was derivative of other sports cars. Of course, if Nissan designs new coupes and sedans using vintage styling cues from the 1970s, then they are basically doing 'retro.'
Old 12-18-2005 | 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by M TYPE X
Whoa, you're right. The V6 doesn't have as much power, but if you price out a V8 CXL or CXS, there are a lot of power and features for the money. Think about it compared to the Acura RL or Infiniti M35/45.
Yeah. That's the segment were Buick would like to see the Lucerne compete in. Right now, it's a pipedream. But maybe with the next gen they can fix some of the things that keeps it out of that field. It definitely needs to loose the old 3800 in favor of the 3.6L HFV6. That's supposed to happen in two years, but it should have debuted with it, IMO. Also, it should be RWD, or atleast standard AWD like the RL. Add a few more goodies on the options list and ur there. It's a shame that Zeta was killed. From what I understand Buick was getting the Velite (to compete with the SC430) and a RWD flagship placed above the Lucerne. The next Lucerne could have shared that platform. All that's left is fixing the Lacrosses' shortcomings and you have an ES competitor. Buick's not far off, but the have a little ways to go.
Old 12-19-2005 | 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by titan
The 2.4L 170HP Ecotec I4; the 3.9L 240HP pushrod V6; 3.6L DOHC HFV6 255HP; 4.6L Northstar V8 320HP. I'm not even gonna get into the LS1... All of those engines are NA, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with any of them. It's the styling that's hurting GM. NOT engineering.
That's what i meant. Those engines are great, but where are the designs to back them up? Not counting the Z06, cause that's just not fair, supercar value @ a sports car price . Caddy? A premium brand with a nice shell, nice internals, but the interior designs left alot to be desire. Not a complete package, IMHO.

Point is, whenever GM exceeds at something, other things comes up short.
Old 12-19-2005 | 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by titan
I submit to you the new Escalade. Don't even rely on the pics... check it out in person. The thing is gonna set the standard. It's really easy to keep commenting on quality because of GM's crappy recent past in that department. But GM makes some great product now. The Escalade is as good as it gets, and it's a great example of what GM can do, and SHOULD do for all of it's divisions.
I don't doubt that. But what about Chevrolet? and Buick? and Pontiac? I don't think going back to the 50s for styling points will solve their lack of appeal.
Old 12-19-2005 | 09:20 AM
  #36  
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Safety Car
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,411
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From: New Orleans
Originally Posted by AsianRage
I don't doubt that. But what about Chevrolet? and Buick? and Pontiac? I don't think going back to the 50s for styling points will solve their lack of appeal.
I think you took that to literally. It's not like they're going to make a carbon copy of the past. I'm all for them taking styling cues from their past to create a unique design for the future. Look at the new grill, ventiports (new age portholes) on the Lucerne, that we first saw on the Velite concept. Both are historic to Buick and very nicely done, and something that Buick an call it's own. Why not do it? It's something that many of it's competitiors can't turn too. It's all about doing it right. Let's see what they have mind before we bash them.
Old 12-19-2005 | 09:06 PM
  #37  
CLsuperhero's Avatar
Pro
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 576
Likes: 3
All I got to say is here we go again with more SSR truck/Car that are fugly. look for large bathtub shaped things on wheels that cost over 50 grand looks like execs at GM are doing too much of this lately

the question is have you driven a ford lately? lol. My answer is no because after 100k they generally go to crap
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