Carbon-ceramic brakes could become affordable for enthusiasts

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 12-21-2006, 06:46 PM
  #1  
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
 
gavriil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
Carbon-ceramic brakes could become affordable for enthusiasts

Carbon-ceramic brakes could become affordable for enthusiasts - - By TONY LEWIN | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS - - Source: Autoweek

Carbon-ceramic brakes built a glamorous reputation in Formula One racing, creating vivid images of discs glowing red during hard braking at the end of long straightaways.

Their high cost limited them to exotic performance cars. But carbon-ceramic brakes are now available on cars priced as low as 60,000 euros (about $80,000 at current exchange rates). And a new manufacturing process could make them affordable for even budget-minded enthusiasts.

The technology has been slow to spread to production vehicles since it was introduced in racing 15 years ago. Porsche first offered a carbon-ceramic brake option on the 911 GT2 in the late 1990s, followed by the more mainstream 911 Turbo in 2000.

Today, carbon-ceramic brakes are optional on all Ferraris, most Lamborghinis and Porsches and the Bentley Continental GT Diamond. These cars are priced above $133,000.

The percentage of buyers choosing this option ranges from more than half for Ferrari models to 6 percent for the Audi RS 4.

For enthusiasts, the performance-driving benefits -- less weight, better handling because of reduced unsprung weight (the mass of the body and components not supported by the suspension), durability and fade resistance -- make the high price worthwhile. But if the price falls dramatically, carbon-ceramic brakes also could appeal to more thrifty buyers.

Carbon-ceramic brake discs last four times longer than conventional steel discs, so owners are unlikely to replace carbon-ceramic discs. Brake pads last longer on the carbon-ceramic systems, too. But at $15 to $20 a disc for steel discs and $665 to $2,660 a disc for carbon-ceramic, owners cannot recoup their cost on the more durable system.

The big step

SGL Carbon AG, of Wiesbaden, Germany, and Audi AG are trying to reduce manufacturing costs for carbon discs by moving from batch production to a continuous process.

Since last year, Audi and SGL have been working to establish automated production, reported the German daily newspaper Frankfurter Rundschau.

"The cost of a disc will come down to 350 euros (about $465) with the new process," says SGL Carbon CEO Robert Koehler. He would not disclose details of the technique.

Audi declined to comment on the technology.

Antonio Ferreira, manager of European component forecasts at CSM Worldwide in London, is skeptical of carbon's broader market potential, even with reduced costs.

"You would need huge volumes to get the price down," he says. "Suppliers would have to come to a two-digit price (per disc). Nothing else is feasible when a complete braking system is not even into three figures."

At Italy's Brembo, which has a 60 percent market share in top-end sports- and luxury-car brakes, carbon-ceramic is still in a "quasi-prototype" phase, said Roberto Vavassori, business development director.

Light and durable

But Vavassori is optimistic, saying the technology's lower weight and long life could become as important as its extreme performance.

"We haven't seen the full potential for carbon brakes yet," he told Automotive News Europe. "They can save 40 kilograms (88 pounds) on an extreme car where mass is important. And in the future, we may see wider adoption in other segments, too."

SGL is working with Porsche and Audi to develop ready-made auto components.

The key to lowering costs is simplifying production.

"It's not mechanical but chemical," said Brembo's Vavassori. "We start from powders and end up with a lightweight disc, but an expensive one."

Antoni Sznerch, business development director of United Kingdom-based Surface Transforms, says versions of the carbon brakes for cars must be even more sophisticated than those on airplanes or race cars.

"The process is similar to how nature creates coal and extremely hard substances like diamonds," says Sznerch, whose company makes SystemST carbon brakes. "Some processes are lengthy, demanding three weeks in the chamber to go through a thermal cycle."

How it works

Carbon-ceramic brakes use the same principle as ordinary disc brakes. Stationary twin calipers clamp onto both sides of a disc rotating next to each wheel of a car, slowing it by friction.

The energy of the car's momentum is transformed into heat at the point of the friction, so brakes can get extremely hot. Carbon-ceramic brakes use carbon fiber and ceramic materials that are stable at temperatures that would make steel discs bendable. Performance doesn't diminish, leading to fade, with repeated use.

Carbon-ceramic brakes also typically use larger calipers to spread the clamping force over a wider area, improving braking performance.

Race-car brakes must be warmed before they work properly. For passenger cars, carbon-ceramic brakes must be fully effective immediately. The discs and brake pads are more sophisticated, with carbon fibers arranged to strengthen the disc and conduct heat away from the surface.

Bentley: Demanding case

Weighing 5,258 pounds and capable of 198 mph, the front-engine Bentley Continental GT has "almost certainly the most demanding braking task of any production car," says Brian Guash, Bentley's director of chassis, powertrain and motor sports.

Midengine cars such as the Bugatti Veyron have it easier, Guash says. Their weight distribution means that all four wheels can share more of the braking effort. On the Continental, the front brakes do most of the work.

The Continental GT already had the biggest brake discs in the industry at 16.2 inches. "Now we've broken our own record, with a 420-millimeter (16.8-inch) carbon-ceramic disc, which is half the weight and gives us lower unsprung and rotating masses," Guash says.

The ceramic brakes also have superior fade resistance and improve steering precision, he says. Pad life has tripled, and discs should last the life of the car.
Old 12-21-2006, 07:04 PM
  #2  
Fahrvergnügen'd
 
charliemike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Maryland
Age: 52
Posts: 13,494
Received 1,568 Likes on 985 Posts
I wouldn't say $465 was "cheap" but since they last four to five times longer it's not a bad deal. I would assume that they cannot be turned like steel rotors so being diligent about brake pad maintenance would become extremely important.
Old 12-21-2006, 07:07 PM
  #3  
4drs just wanna have fun!
iTrader: (1)
 
Accord_V6_400m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 1,268
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Cant wait!

Great idea, I love how this stuff eventually trickles down to us, it reminds me of a quote I heard a while back "For every $1 we invest into NASA we get $7 back"

This would most certainly negate the added weight of BBK's which tend to only provide increased fade resistance and better feel in the end instead of shorter braking distances as well due to the added weight and some other factors as well such as tires etc.

Imagine this Carbon Cermaic brakes combined with a wedge braking system.

Great avatar Charliemike "Dick in a box" reminds me of Jack 'n' Box

Last edited by Accord_V6_400m; 12-21-2006 at 07:09 PM.
Old 12-21-2006, 07:16 PM
  #4  
Suzuka Master
 
mclarenf3387's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 8,620
Received 7 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by charliemike
I wouldn't say $465 was "cheap" but since they last four to five times longer it's not a bad deal. I would assume that they cannot be turned like steel rotors so being diligent about brake pad maintenance would become extremely important.
Replacement rotors for my Brembo BBK are 300 dollars a peice, so 465 dollars for a ceramic disc is what I would call quite affordable.
Old 12-21-2006, 07:20 PM
  #5  
Fahrvergnügen'd
 
charliemike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Maryland
Age: 52
Posts: 13,494
Received 1,568 Likes on 985 Posts
Originally Posted by Accord_V6_400m
Cant wait!

Great idea, I love how this stuff eventually trickles down to us, it reminds me of a quote I heard a while back "For every $1 we invest into NASA we get $7 back"

This would most certainly negate the added weight of BBK's which tend to only provide increased fade resistance and better feel in the end instead of shorter braking distances as well due to the added weight and some other factors as well such as tires etc.

Imagine this Carbon Cermaic brakes combined with a wedge braking system.

Great avatar Charliemike "Dick in a box" reminds me of Jack 'n' Box
LOL, thanks man. Took me two hours to do it. Had to get it from Google Videos, convert it from MP4 to AVI, rip all the frames out of the AVI, edit it in Image Ready ... Woof. First time I did it but now it's easy
Old 12-21-2006, 09:40 PM
  #6  
_____ like a rabbit
 
stangg172004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Edgewater, Chicago, IL
Age: 36
Posts: 8,594
Received 12 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by mclarenf3387
Replacement rotors for my Brembo BBK are 300 dollars a peice, so 465 dollars for a ceramic disc is what I would call quite affordable.
very, and its not only longer life. No to very little fade even after beating on them lap after lap...
Old 12-22-2006, 09:39 AM
  #7  
Race Director
 
biker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 14,306
Received 624 Likes on 503 Posts
But at $15 to $20 a disc for steel discs
Who's getting discs for $20?

Too bad the price of this technology won't follow normal decline rates.
Old 12-22-2006, 02:35 PM
  #8  
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
 
gavriil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
Originally Posted by biker
Who's getting discs for $20?
I was thinking of the same thing. I just asked for a break job for both axles at Acura for my CLS and they said 1100 for all four wheels. And that's with rotor resurfacing.
Old 12-22-2006, 06:14 PM
  #9  
Racer
 
Type S Zero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Canada, Qc
Age: 45
Posts: 415
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes on 12 Posts
It's a very nice article!
i'm ready to pay $500 a rotor for that kind of reliability and longevity.
they're talking about high volumes, so i'm thinking it'll still take a few years to get these kits for our cars. current BBK's are still good for a long time before we have access to carbon-ceramic systems...and in the long run, they'll be standard from the factory (in 5+years) on many cars (talking 10+ years for civics)

$20 ?
i say $16 a piece
but it's only for my winter beater : 92 civic, with PBR ceramics

Last edited by Type S Zero; 12-22-2006 at 06:16 PM.
Old 12-22-2006, 08:44 PM
  #10  
whut
 
theslik1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: SC
Age: 60
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Disc brakes may be on the way out (but maybe not...sometimes these innovations never get to market):

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1859510,00.asp

http://www.siemensvdo.com/products_s...technology.htm
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
GWEEDOspeedo
Car Parts for Sale
4
01-15-2016 10:39 PM
lanechanger
Member Cars for Sale
4
10-13-2015 10:56 AM
polish_pat
3G TL Problems & Fixes
17
09-30-2015 12:22 PM
27trains
4G TL Problems & Fixes
2
09-30-2015 09:44 AM
Yumcha
Automotive News
1
09-25-2015 06:05 PM



Quick Reply: Carbon-ceramic brakes could become affordable for enthusiasts



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:55 AM.